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Coraline

Something to think about...

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If the Duke Nukem engine was BUILD, and the ROTT engine was, um, ROTT, why was the 'beta' Duke 3d (you can find it on 3drealms.com -called lameduke-) built in ROTT? Errr, I should be posting this at 3drealms, but I like Doomworld/VB better.

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Impossible. You may be confused--ROTT was supposed to be a sequel to Wolf3d -- it didn't actually USE the Wolfenstein engine.
No, no. Impossible. Maybe some early version of BUILD, but definately NOT wolf3d -- just look at the two.

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Go read the new stuff on the recently released source code. Or, I'll quote:

Mark Dochtermann
The ROTT engine initially started out as the Wolf3D engine. The Wolf3D engine was a REAL mode engine rather than a PROTECTED mode engine like Doom. My first task was to rewrite the engine so that it was a PROTECTED mode engine. Once this was done, ROTT could take advantage of linear memory and access to high memory without using EMS or XMS (remember those?) Wolf3D also generated all the code necessary in memory to scale a 64 high textured line from 1 pixel to the maximum scaled size which was about 300-400. This took up a bit of memory, and while it was an amazing innovation for 286's (it allowed WOLF3D to be as fast as it was) it didn't make a lot of sense for the 486. I took that stuff out and then had to convert the renderer from 286 assembly to protected mode assembly. John Carmack gave me a little piece of code which turned out to be the assembly inner loop for Doom. ROTT, it turns out uses the same scaling routines as found in Doom (who would have thought). Apogee also signed a deal with id that would allow us to put floor and ceiling code in ROTT. Once this was done the game really took on a whole new look.
The conversion from REAL mode to PROTECTED mode required a complete rewrite of almost every subsystem in Wolf3D which in the end made the ROTT engine VERY different from the Wolf3D engine. One of the subsystems which had to be re-written was the sound system. That is where Jim Dose came in. He wrote an amazing sound system outside of Apogee/3D Realms that would later be used in all of Apogee's products. Once he was near completion he was brought on to the ROTT team and helped finish up the game (he created RANDROTT among other things).

After the initial hard stuff was completed the ROTT engine turned more and more into a bastard child as features were added like room over room and transparency which were clearly never intended for an engine like ROTT's. The finished product is by no means an engineering marvel but had a certain charm to it.

Here are some of the things that are in the ROTT engine:

Multi level orthogonally based levels.
Room over room (sort of).
Transparency.
Textured Floors and Ceilings.
Dynamic Lighting.
FLIC support (although we never had any in the game).
CINEMATIC engine (also never used. The ending sequence is scripted but doesn't utilize the cool shit developed before hand).
11 player network support.
Masked Walls (Textures with holes in them).
Moving Walls.
Stairs (sort of).


So, Rott used Wolf3d. Build never touched Rott.

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Are you sure?? It started out as maybe a little Wolf3d. It doesn't look or think like WOlf3d. That's like saying DOOM was built in Wolf3d.
Errr. This is confusing.

AND, they used the ROTT engine in the article, not the Wolf3d. They said that the ROTT engine is different than the Wolf3d engine.
Maybe they used some things from WOlf3d, like Doom.
I don't know.

AND, that would mean that the 'beta' of Duke Nukem 3d "lameduke" would be considered Wolf3d?
I mean, it looks similiar to ROTT.
Hmmm, if they used the Wolf3d engine, they would've said that the "id technology" year-year would been credited to i-d software.

EDIT BUTTON, mutterbumser, sprechen sie es!?

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Chu said:

AND, that would mean that the 'beta' of Duke Nukem 3d "lameduke" would be considered Wolf3d?
I mean, it looks similiar to ROTT.
Hmmm, if they used the Wolf3d engine, they would've said that the "id technology" year-year would been credited to i-d software.


Jesus christ, Lameduke DID NOT USE ANYTHING LIKE THE WOLF3D ENGINE. It used the Build engine written by Ken Silverman. It had absolutely nothing to do with Wolf3d or ROTT.

http://www.advsys.net/ken/default.htm

That's Ken's page. Visit it. Read up. Get a clue.

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Hahaha. I know it's hard to believe Chu, but accept it and move on. You can actually tell the similarities if you look hard enough. The fact that Wolf is completely missing a z axis is perhaps putting you off :)

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I don't think it's difficult to tell that RotT was based off of the Wolfenstein 3d engine. I mean for crap's sake, the weapons felt Wolf'ish, the enemies felt wolf'ish and the levels were so blocky that it couldn't possibly be anything but the Wolfenstein 3d engine - heavily tweaked perhaps, but the wolf3d engine nonetheless.

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CyRaptor said:

Build is the best engine ever.

Bullshit. Teh Doom Engine R0><0rS.

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Build engine was superior to the Doom engine in almost every way. OK, with source ports the engines are pretty much on a par, and Doom excels in a lot of ways... but I really miss in-game editing, which was the best feature about Build IMO.

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ZarcyB said:

I really miss in-game editing, which was the best feature about Build IMO.


Definitely. It takes me about four times longer to make a map for Doom as opposed to Duke. If someone would release the source, I think it could be one of the most powerful easy-to-use engines around. Then again, I'm nuts.

Or they could just make a Doom editor with 3D editing.

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