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AtimZarr1

The Ancient Gods 2 - Impressions and Story Spoilers

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17 hours ago, Magnum Dongus said:

First post here, so I hope I don't sound like an idiot

 

Gameplay wise, I have to agree with what everyone else has been saying. The first DLC was fucking nuts, and not in a good way. I seriously think I spent like, 4 hours on each level and ended up totally exhausted each time. I guess the one good thing about it was the fact that I didn't breeze through, so I got my money's worth??? But in part 2, the levels seemed way shorter. At least, the first two levels seemed about the same, maybe just a little shorter. But Immora felt really short. Size wize it didn't seem that bad; it just felt a little empty. To be honest, I may have just been remembering DLC 1 as being way longer than it was, and that made the others seem shorter by comparison. But I have to say it was actually a bit of a relief to have the levels be not as awfully long as I remembered them being in Part 1.

 

As for the boss fight,  AAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHH!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!  would probably be the best way of describing my reaction to it. I hated that boss fight so fucking much. It was good nobody else was home, because I kept yelling every time that motherfucker stole health from me. I can kinda get why they did it, since the health absorption is something we can do, so it makes sense that he would be able to do it as well. I just feel like he was waaaayyyy too eager to refill himself at every single thing you did wrong. Him hitting you should have been the extent of it, but he gets health just because you shoot him at the wrong time? Thats so stupid. And the stupid time window to hit him also sucked. The fact that he telegraphed his attack before he flashed green should have been helpful, but it isn't because he has a bunch of other melee sword attacks that he also telegraphs, so you have to memorize the exact way he prepares for the attack. And you could say that that's ok, because it adds a little more skill in, but then what is the point of adding in his eyes flashing green? I also find it funny that they say at the start of the fight something along the lines of "you can use the Sentinel Hammer to stun the Dark Lord to extend the time to attack him!" when in reality, you have to do it or else you have like a millisecond of time to damage him. Some thing else I was expecting was that later on in the fight, he would have shed his armor and gone into a totally different style of fighting, That would have made it more refreshing instead of having to fight 5 phases of the same frustrating thing for what seemed like hours. Additionally, it would have just made more sense story wise. At the end of the fight, the Dark Lord is still in his suit, but his body looks totally unscathed, so it doesn't make sense that he just puts away his sword and is all like "haha ok come kill me now."

 

For the music, I have so say, it was there. That's it. It was just there. I honestly can't remember any of the songs. The same goes for DLC Part 1. I don't want to be mean to Andrew Hulshult, and I think he did great in Dusk, but this isn't Dusk.

 

Story wise, I was also less than impressed. So I don't want to be that guy, but I'm not really a fan of the whole "heheh God is bad lol" trope that's so common in a lot of media about killing demons. Like, you'd think that the logical progression from "you are a guy who likes killing demons" would be "you are friends with the angels and stuff" but so much stuff goes with the super-edgy "haha kill everything! They are all bad!!1!" angle. It really seems like every time someone does it, they realize what the logical progression would be, and they assume that everyone has done it, so they decide to be edgy and unique, without realizing that that's the same thought process everyone has had. We've gotten some variation of the "Angels/God are bad" thing in stuff like Shin Megami Tensei, Bayonetta, Supernatural, Darksiders, Preacher, Spawn, Neon Genesis Evangelion, Golden Compass. Again I don't want to sound like somebody's offended religious grandma, but I just think it's a bit overused at this point. Especially since Doom has always had a simple premise, it would make sense to follow it by doing the typical "you and angels team up to kill demons" thing. Not asking for religious propaganda, since that would obviously be annoying for fans of Doom who aren't religious. But to go too far in the other direction is surely annoying to fans who are religious.

 

Regardless of wether people are annoyed by the story for personal belief reasons, a lot of its issues are unrelated to that. There is so much shit that comes out of nowhere, and is later retconned, that I can't possibly imagine they weren't making it up as they went. And there is a lot of stuff that was kinda just left off. What is up with the World Spear? What ever happened to the Wraiths? Where is Samur/Samuel (I refuse to use the term "Seraphim" as a singular noun)? What is everyone doing now that they won? Is Urdak just gone forever now? Who are The Ancient Gods? You know, the floating guys the DLC was apparently named after? They seem to want to explain every single little detail, but in doing so they throw in a bunch more stuff that just adds more confusion.

 

Overall, I'm not a big fan. The base game was cool, but it would have been even greater to get some more stuff like 2016. I feel like calling for a retcon is a bit dramatic, but retcons can sometimes be deserved when the thing it is retconning is a retcon itself (and a bad one at that). I don't want to be one of those "You RRRRUINED it for me!!!" type of people, but I really feel like if I go back to play any other Doom games, I'll have a hard time enjoying them knowing the implications of this story are stretched over to them.

 

First off; Welcome to Doom World :D

 

Pretty much agree with what you've covered here, especially the rather tired trope of "Heaven is also nasty". It works in some games/ shows, for sure (Supernatural has that tone from day one), but it really doesn't fit here IMO. 

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TAG 2 was meh. I liked meathook traversal and first two maps looked great. Cursed Prowler is completely unfair and needs to be changed. Immora was boring looking. Absolutely terrible dark lord fight. He regens health every time he hits me despite him missing sometimes. So I just gave up. His health regen felt unfair and unbalanced. ID needs to look into it. DLC 1 & 2 were both so average to me. Disappointing considering I really love the base game. I expected DLCs to be an improvement on the base game, not worse. I lost excitement for future doom games cause of the year one pass expansions and enemies where I have to wait until they do an action for them to be hittable.

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The hammer bothers me very much not just because it bends the game over its knee, but also because there's nothing for it prior. You start the DLC and there's no goal of getting the hammer, Valen's ghost magic stuff lets him just hand it off, and unlike the main campaign's Crucible where there's build-up to getting it step by step before you forge and then try it out, it's entirely incidental. If the Slayer got the Crucible sword handed off like it was just another weapon pickup with next to no fanfare I'm sure people would've found that strange.

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On jeudi 18 mars 2021 at 9:42 PM, AtimZarr1 said:

there just isn't that many exploration items which is a bit disappointing.

 

On jeudi 18 mars 2021 at 9:42 PM, AtimZarr1 said:

Also, completing the various Milestones for TAG2 unlocks gold skins for all your other weapons. Which I also found a bit odd because I figured they'd save these for Master Level rewards since the precedent was set with the Gold Combat Shotgun from the Super Gore Nest Master Level.

 

On jeudi 18 mars 2021 at 9:42 PM, AtimZarr1 said:

It's just the boss fight. There's no build-up or anything like with the Gladiator.

 

On jeudi 18 mars 2021 at 9:42 PM, AtimZarr1 said:

these enemies are just "there"

 

On jeudi 18 mars 2021 at 9:42 PM, AtimZarr1 said:

Design-wise, they are a bit disappointing as well. Was hoping for an interesting design that would fit their name or slow-moving nature, maybe one of the Carcass draft concepts. Instead, they're just regular Hell Zombies with a purple burning glow.

 

On jeudi 18 mars 2021 at 9:42 PM, AtimZarr1 said:

They're mostly recolored, and a decent recolor, but a recolor nonetheless. In terms of combat AI, this is perhaps tied with the Cursed Prowler for being the most pointless new AI added.

 

On jeudi 18 mars 2021 at 9:42 PM, AtimZarr1 said:

I think the impression of having only enemy variants being added to the DLC just seems somewhat lackluster and not very exciting. Unlike the above three enemies, there aren't even any stand-out fights with the Cursed Prowlers that I can remember. They just sometimes spawn in an arena. Would've been interesting if we had to face multiple Cursed Prowlers at least. The gameplay design of Cursed Prowlers isn't very conducive to creating unique encounters though, so I'm not really sure what they could've done here.

 

On jeudi 18 mars 2021 at 9:42 PM, AtimZarr1 said:

I'm quite disappointed there was no mid-DLC boss in TAG2 like the Trial of Maligog from TAG1. While perhaps annoying like the Spirits or Blood Maykrs, I still appreciated and enjoyed the unique gameplay design of the Trial of Maligog. In TAG2, there are no other bosses except the Dark Lord. I was hoping to fight the demonic dragons or Maykr Archangels that were shown in the final battle of Immora but unfortunately they remain skybox decor.

 

On jeudi 18 mars 2021 at 9:42 PM, AtimZarr1 said:

Speaking of inconclusive, there's some loose ends that are never addressed.

These basically amount to "it could have been a lot more interesting with a little bit more work thrown in", so my takeaway is that TAG2 was kinda rushed.

 

Which may or may not also explain the following point:

On jeudi 18 mars 2021 at 9:42 PM, AtimZarr1 said:

That's a lot of lore getting changed without any sort of build-up from the previous interpretation.

Giving some build-up to their shocking twist reveals may have required like one or two extra level per TAG part.

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It's interesting, I've played the first half of TAG2 and have thought it was pretty good but wasn't blowing me away. Then the cursed prowlers happened and my enjoyment took a nose dive. So I decided to go back to the original and derust on a nightmare run and boy have I been enjoying that. Half way through Arc Complex so far and it's been fantastic to go back and replay things. Really reminded me how good Doom Eternal is in all aspects. Even little things like weapon/suit point progression adds fun little elements to think about that keep me much more engaged with the game. 
Anyone a bit disillusioned with the DLC should go back and give the base game another roll. Might rekindle your love for the game :D

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Oh, there are two DLCs out already? I completely lost track, but it seems I didn't miss much - I watched part of the UN run on the first page and OMFG that platforming bullshit seems like 3 times worse than in base Mario Eternal. Yep, I'm definitely not touching this unless someone makes a mod to bypass/skip all puzzles that have 3 or more steps. Until then, Microsoft can shove this crap up their asses, I'm not going to repeat the same mistake twice (pay for Doom and get Prince of Persia instead). Also, I have sort of a personal crusade that I try as little of my money as possible to seep to Microsoft, so it will be even better if I wait and then get the DLCs for bottom bargain price.

 

BTW, what about the Master Levels? How many are out now? Do I need the DLCs to access them?

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22 hours ago, Caleb13 said:

BTW, what about the Master Levels? How many are out now? Do I need the DLCs to access them?

 

22 hours ago, Caleb13 said:

base Mario Eternal

No, you don't need the DLC for the Master Levels, but why even bother coming to a Doom Eternal thread and asking about this when you already left it clear you already made up your mind about this game lol.

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Why do people insist on talking as if platforming is some mechanic completely alien to Doom? It was there all the way back in the very first game. Doesn't anyone remember running across those pillars to get the goodies in the secret room in e1m9?

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1 hour ago, hfc2x said:

 

No, you don't need the DLC for the Master Levels, but why even bother coming to a Doom Eternal thread and asking about this when you already left it clear you already made up your mind about this game lol.

 

Yes, he needs some mini 5 euro DLC to get Cultist Base master level.

 

23 hours ago, Caleb13 said:

OMFG that platforming bullshit seems like 3 times worse than in base Mario Eternal.

 

I like the platforming. It is very fault tolerant, definitely not pixel sized jumps like in first Half Life. Even such jumping troglodyte like me starts to enjoy Eternal leaps and acrobatics. Moreover if you despite this still fall to abbyss, you appears back at edge with few hitpoints less!

Bad hobit when playing 2016.

When learnt to use map i even found all secrets without tutorials.

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Yeah, the platforming in Doom Eternal is very forgiving, even by FPS standards. Maybe that's the reason it bothers some people, as perverse as that might sound?

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14 minutes ago, Yurax said:

Yes, he needs some mini 5 euro DLC to get Cultist Base master level.

 

 

I thought cheat engine is for free lol

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1 hour ago, Yurax said:

I like the platforming. It is very fault tolerant, definitely not pixel sized jumps like in first Half Life. Even such jumping troglodyte like me starts to enjoy Eternal leaps and acrobatics. Moreover if you despite this still fall to abbyss, you appears back at edge with few hitpoints less!

Same here. I actually enjoyed the platforming, it added some diversity to the gameplay. 

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Just now, igg said:

Same here. I actually enjoyed the platforming, it added some diversity to the gameplay. 

i remenber hugo saying on a stream that plataforming was added as a way to make the tranversal in between arenas more interesting then just some random enemies here and there and i think it fitted that purpose perfectely

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I do think the TAG2 boss battle missed a trick or two. Like I really think it would have been good to bring in the two-stage mechanic from the Doom Hunter, and have the Dark Lord fight you man-to-man(???) once you busted him out that silly suit of mini-mech armour he wore.

Of course I understand the constraints that Id Software were working under, and there is some truth to the notion of saving concepts for actually fully-fledged games later on. I'd like to think that Hugo Martin's engagement with the players has helped to convey this, his stream of Final Sin is an excellent opportunity to hear the Id side of the story.

I wonder what more could have been done were it not for that thrice-cursed virus. Texas freezing over can't have helped much either.

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5 hours ago, Yurax said:

Yes, he needs some mini 5 euro DLC to get Cultist Base master level.

That's not what he was asking.

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On 3/28/2021 at 3:23 PM, Gez said:

These basically amount to "it could have been a lot more interesting with a little bit more work thrown in", so my takeaway is that TAG2 was kinda rushed.

 

There was no choice on that matter. It was either rush it, or get fined millions of dollars (refunds) for not meeting a promised 1 year deadline.

 

Done is better than perfect.

 

Plus look at it this way: by id getting the DLCs out on time, they get to keep the aforementioned millions of dollars.  That's money that can now be driven into game improvements AND now they can do the improvements without looming deadlines. Win/win for everyone.

Edited by Rytrik

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The story bothers me. If you are going to have one, be consistent with it. Doom 2016, Eternal base campaign, Ancient Gods part 1, and part 2, are hilariously out of sync with one another. It's like they didn't even bother thinking of continuity. It's so blatant that I am almost convinced that it is satire.

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Alright, so I went back to fight the Dark Lord again after my initial playthrough, and I think he was much more enjoyable to fight against after I've gotten used to his behavior and mechanics. He's much less of a slog once you shape up your reflexes.

 

 

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On 3/29/2021 at 1:07 AM, Bridgeburner56 said:

It's interesting, I've played the first half of TAG2 and have thought it was pretty good but wasn't blowing me away. Then the cursed prowlers happened and my enjoyment took a nose dive. So I decided to go back to the original and derust on a nightmare run and boy have I been enjoying that. Half way through Arc Complex so far and it's been fantastic to go back and replay things. Really reminded me how good Doom Eternal is in all aspects. Even little things like weapon/suit point progression adds fun little elements to think about that keep me much more engaged with the game. 
Anyone a bit disillusioned with the DLC should go back and give the base game another roll. Might rekindle your love for the game :D

 

Having exactly the same Experience^^

The Maingame really is a Piece of Art.

 

22 hours ago, igg said:

Same here. I actually enjoyed the platforming, it added some diversity to the gameplay. 

 

Yep, added something nice to the overall Pacing.

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I do wonder if Levy and Hulshult were also impacted by the release dates.

Like, if they also had more time (and there were more than 3 levels for each expansion) i wonder if their music could have reached the certain "power" some of Mick's track have.

Because some tracks feel like they tell a story and i consider the Gladiator theme to be the best of Eternal, due to how develop and "bombastic" it is.

Mick also had a history of being experimental with some tracks, even outside of Doom.

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I don't really buy Hugo's "celebration of the tools" and "we want you to feel like a God", they just wanted to make TAG 2 more casual and consol friendly because most likely difficult TAG 1 didn't meet their financial expectations also steam shows that only 10% of the players completed the DLC 1 lol (40% completed the base game) that's trully abysmal value.

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I quit at Blood swamps in DLC1... I can't stand the mechanics in this game. Watched the ending, man what a fucking giant turd of a story this game now has.

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On 3/31/2021 at 11:38 AM, Rytrik said:

There was no choice on that matter. It was either rush it, or get fined millions of dollars (refunds) for not meeting a promised 1 year deadline.

This sounds like first world problems to me.

 

I assure you if they had announced this was going to be delayed, but people who had gotten the year 1 pass would still get the DLC as promised, most people would have understood and would've been perfectly fine with it, if a little disappointed. Except, of course, for the usual tiny crowd that throws a fit if their game gets delayed 1 minute from release. That's just a vocal minority. The huge majority of people don't bother enough to refund a videogame unless it's a Cyberpunk 2077 level of catastrophe (which TAG 2 definitely isn't), and especially because almost everyone understands of the state the world is in right now isn't exactly conductive for meeting deadlines and the like.

 

Besides, a corporation like Bethesda being fined for millions of dollars doesn't really do anything to them. They make so much money that whatever they usually get fined for, they get back in a matter of hours. If anything, executives at the top usually take this as a sign that a specific series that makes them lose money should go into indefinite hibernation.

 

Overall, rushing it was worse in the end because it ended up damaging the brand in the eyes of their own audience. Many players bailed out of Doom Eternal and lost faith in the newer Doom games because id Software shot themselves in the foot by putting out something of pretty low quality, rushed in an effort to meet this deadline. I really don't know what you're talking about when you say it's a win/win lol.

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1 hour ago, hfc2x said:

Many players bailed out of Doom Eternal and lost faith in the newer Doom games because id Software shot themselves in the foot by putting out something of pretty low quality, rushed in an effort to meet this deadline.

This is an exaggerated claim. While i see a lot of people pretty disappointed with TAG, this made it sound like it was such a Daikatana level failure that Ruined the the base game and the Entire franchise as a whole.  It really didn't. 

 

While being rushed in the boss battle and writing department, I wouldn't call TAG2 low quality though it wasnt a gem by any standard, compared to TAG1 and the Base Game. The arenas themselves were a blast (minus the Cursed Prowler sections)

 

Also i don't see Bethesda, despite their horrid business decisions, breaking contracts. It isnt just loosing 1 million dollars, its loosing investors, investors who expect a contract to be done on time.

 

Its not a win win, but it means we can still have Doom games in the future.

Edited by jazzmaster9

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16 minutes ago, jazzmaster9 said:

This is an exaggerated claim. While i see a lot of people pretty disappointed with TAG, you made it sound like it was such a Daikatana level failure that Ruined the the base game and the Entire franchise as a whole.  It really didn't. 

 

While being rushed in the boss battle and writing department, I wouldn't call TAG2 low quality though it wasnt a gem by any standard, compared to TAG1 and the Base Game. The arenas themselves were a blast (minus the Cursed Prowler sections)

 

Also i don't see Bethesda, despite their horrid business decisions, breaking contracts. It isnt just loosing 1 million dollars, its loosing investors, investors who expect a contract to be done on time.

 

Its not a win win, but it means we can still have Doom games in the future.

and thing is seens like a big part of the fan base liked it even if it was a disapointment for them

tag2 is in no way a low quality product it just missed its potential

this isnt fallout 76 or cyberpunk 77

Edited by omalefico32x : man my typing sucks ass

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15 minutes ago, omalefico32x said:

and thing is seens like a nig part of the fan base liked it even if it was a disapointment for them

tag2 is in no way a low quality product it just missed its potential

this isnt fallout 76 or cyberpunk 77

TAG2 was a let down compared to TAG1, but it was far from "Low Quality". It had missteps and wrong decision but that didnt make the game totally unplayable.

Edited by jazzmaster9

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25 minutes ago, jazzmaster9 said:

TAG2 was a let down compared to TAG1, but it was far from "Low Quality". It had a ton of mistakes but that didnt make the game totally unplayable

 

TAG 2 was a let down only due to lack of time absolutely not because devs are not talented or lazy, they will make up for this in their next game (in 2028 or something lol), and this disappointment is literally nothing compared to failures like fallout 76, cyberpunk or mobile diablo. Let's just move on and enjoy what we have, besides master levels are coming (FOR FREE!) so plenty of amazing content to play and even more respect for Id.

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20 hours ago, jazzmaster9 said:

This is an exaggerated claim. While i see a lot of people pretty disappointed with TAG, this made it sound like it was such a Daikatana level failure that Ruined the the base game and the Entire franchise as a whole.  It really didn't.

 

22 hours ago, hfc2x said:

unless it's a Cyberpunk 2077 level of catastrophe (which TAG 2 definitely isn't)

Aren't you exaggerating yourself? I never said this DLC releasing in this state would kill the series lol. And I know that for a fact since we, the players, aren't Bethesda's audience. As much as we can complain, the DLC sold really well, and that's the end of that.

 

As for you treating this like it's a great addition to the game and whatnot.. I know you obviously liked TAG 2, but that doesn't automatically make it a good product. If you like it, good, but gauging the opinions of most people in this subforum, plus Doom Eternal content creators, and reviews for the DLC on Steam, it's clear as day that most people aren't happy with this DLC. Me included. Although I don't recall saying Doom Eternal as a whole is unplayable now because of this DLC, so I don't know where you're getting that from.

 

Criticizing a portion of something doesn't mean you hate all of it. If anything, people are angry are they loved the base game to begin with.

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30 minutes ago, hfc2x said:

As for you treating this like it's a great addition to the game and whatnot.. I know you obviously liked TAG 2,

Not really, I have yet to play TAG1 or 2, but i've mentioned a few times in this subforum of its failings. So this is very inaccurate.

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