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129thVisplane

DE makes me so unreasonably mad [rant]

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Not only because I'm a gremlin that gets overwhelmed by the "press every button on keyboard within the timespan of <1 second just to live" gordian knot of a gameplay loop even on ITYTD, but the lore just makes no fucking sense to me. I know lore in Doom is like a story in porn but at least make it consistent. "you know these characters with laid out backstories in d2016? sike they've been someone completely else all along and now they're acting completely different. oh you started to slowly come to terms with it? haha it was all a lie again. fuck you" it makes me so tilted because suddenly everything i knew is wrong and i dont have any trust in the characters anymore, it feels like everything i do in the game is an arbitrary fuck. everytime a character speaks im just begging them to shut up.

i'm a person who gets really into story in videogames to a hyper obsessive level and to have it ruined like this is absolutely soul-crushing. i hate it so much. i've been crying over this shit for 3 days and i can't stop. everytime i think of this game it just makes me cry again, and i can't escape it because everywhere i go people keep bringing it up like "hey 129 have you heard dlc 2 came out. have you played dlc 2 it's so cool. lemme shove this lore down your throat"

 

tl;dr i havent been outside in a year, doom has been my main source of escapism, and now i feel dead inside because id fucked with my special interest. i'm honestly not going to buy any more id software games because i know they're gonna fuck me over again tbh

sorry i know i shouldnt be meltdownposting but i cant help it aaaa

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Posted (edited)
26 minutes ago, hurricane hoatzine said:

Someone new need take over doom again. A doom game that like doom 3 or classic doom 2

I would rather the next Doom game be some thing completely new again, Like how Different Doom Eternal was to Doom 2016. No need to for them to resort to using "the good old days" and instead expand on the series.

 

we already have Doom 3 and Doom 2

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14 minutes ago, jazzmaster9 said:

I would rather the next Doom game be some thing completely new again, Like how Different Doom Eternal was to Doom 2016. No need to for them to resort to using "the good old days" and instead expand on the series.

 

we already have Doom 3 and Doom 2


This, they got it rigth with the new places and enemies.

It's hard to me to go back to another, Demons in Spaceships, Mars Base,Earth and now you're hell (Hellish Hell) to stop the invasion one for all.

They can focus more on Argent D' Nur, feels like what's it's a Earth, but overtaken by warriors figthing hell.

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Posted (edited)

Although I'm not exactly reduced to tears about it I'm also feeling pretty exhausted with the story writing. When DE launched I was happy to see the turn towards a more bold and colourful tone, because to me Doom is inherently trashy and ridiculous in concept, and it makes more sense to me to lean into that and have some fun with it than to try to pretend that fighting demons on Mars in the future is somehow Very Very Serious and has to be played with a straight face (see ----> dOoM 3). But when I saw Doomguy climb on a fucking dragon to fly to the mystic land of whatever and fight an evil guy in a giant robot suit I realised that the shark was jumped and that the story is basically what you would get if you paid a hyperactive 10 year old in amphetamines to write a D&D campaign scenario.

Edited by BoxY

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30 minutes ago, jamondemarnatural said:


This, they got it rigth with the new places and enemies.

It's hard to me to go back to another, Demons in Spaceships, Mars Base,Earth and now you're hell (Hellish Hell) to stop the invasion one for all.

They can focus more on Argent D' Nur, feels like what's it's a Earth, but overtaken by warriors figthing hell.

Or play as the Dark Lord fighting Angels and taking the fight to the Heavens themselves. I mean, Id Software went as far as to make him share Doomguy's appearance but also his arsenal and abilities, so might as well give him his own game.

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The lore is utter dogshit. But there are plenty of games with great stories, save the full immersion for those?

 

DE requires some serious keyboard acrobatics, that's for sure. I can't multitask well enough to track which of the grenades are available, flamer, blood punch, what weapons I have ammo for, weapon mode loadouts AND my god damned chainsaw in the midst of 360 degree onslaught. It does sometimes feel like a bit like when I used to mash all the buttons on fighting games.

 

Yes, the story is rebarbative swill. And at least for myself, DE offers little immersion, mostly because of the frantic pacing and constant pressure. For me, the way to get past these flaws is to approach it as pure gameplay. And there, while it's a couple of cooldown timers past perfection, is where I think DE astonishes.

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2 hours ago, 129thVisplane said:

i've been crying over this shit for 3 days and i can't stop. everytime i think of this game it just makes me cry again, and i can't escape it because everywhere i go people keep bringing it up like "hey 129 have you heard dlc 2 came out. have you played dlc 2 it's so cool. lemme shove this lore down your throat"

This isn't something you should be this aggravated over. 

 

I understand your personal situation and that Eternal does quite a few things different than what some people would have expected, but if you cry for 3 straight days over this, than take a breather. Even DE isn't worth this much emotional turmoil from anyone.

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Sounds like you need a break from the game. Always good to take a rest or maybe try some other Doom related stuff. Read 'Masters Of Doom' or the other original Doom novels for example. There's also the Doom boardgame.

Remember we are all here because whatever flavour of Doom we play we play because we enjoy it and it's fun. If that has stopped take a step back.

 

That was not meant to sound like an anti-gambling add.

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Seconding "pretend/realize it isn't canon." Classic Doom and New Doom are so distanced from each other in terms of time, technology, narrative, company ethos, and target audience that there's really no universe in which they could both canonically happen on the same plane of existence, regardless of the "past lives" tie-in schtick.

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Posted (edited)

While I might not feel as strongly about it as you do @129thVisplane, I definitely have some of the same feelings. I loved Doom 2016 and have yet to complete Eternal. And I don’t think I can. I’m just to old and slow. I bought Titanfall 2 super cheap and it rekindled my faith in 3D shooters and brought a smile back in my face. 

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I see that Eternal wasn't for everyone, though I'm personally enjoying it so far. I enjoy the Dev's expansion on the formula set out in Doom 4, though it does make some drastic changes. Some of the platforming is a bit clunky, but the general movement feels smooth. It took me a while to get used to the massive changes to the gameplay, but I appreciate them

 

 I know a lot of people are probably going to disagree with me, but I enjoy the new direction the series is going. We can argue about it until we turn to dust or we can appreciate the fact that ID software clearly want to build and expand upon a base formula. Whether it's for better or worse comes down to personal preference.

 

A message to the OP: If you get this upset over a game, stop playing the game. It clearly isn't for you. Don't force yourself to like something that you don't enjoy playing. I understand that Doom has been your main form of escapism, but making yourself miserable isn't the answer. Instead, why not play some of the plethora of community content for classic Doom? It's free, and a lot of high quality stuff has been released this year.

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Posted (edited)
1 hour ago, Chris Hansen said:

While I might not feel as strongly about it as you do @129thVisplane, I definitely have some of the same feelings. I loved Doom 2016 and have yet to complete Eternal. And I don’t think I can. I’m just to old and slow.

Thankfully games don't make me mad. I got slightly annoyed at Eternal after 8 hours and haven't played in 10 months. The platforming is silly. I don't want to have to swing on poles and dash through the air so I can get to the parts where you kill shit. At some point I'll give it another try, maybe I'll get more used to swinger doom.

 

Quote

I bought Titanfall 2 super cheap and it rekindled my faith in 3D shooters and brought a smile back in my face. 

I started replaying Doom 3. Haven't touched the game in years but I find it enjoyable, which is nice. lol Might have to check out Titanfall 2 and was thinking about getting The Outer Worlds.

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I can understand getting mad over a game, but getting mad over something small as video game lore is concerning. Judging by how you write this, you seem to be mentally unwell, and being inside for a whole year is never good for anyone. I suggest:

 

- You stop playing Doom Eternal. It's obvious that the game is not for you, and continuing to play the game and making yourself more upset will not help.

 

- Talk to your friends, relatives, or other people you know. That may help relieve your stress.

 

I'm sorry if I come across as unhelpful or even rude. I'm just trying to give you the best advice I can offer.

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honestly i havent even touched the game since i begrudgingly replayed it for a friend several months ago, but it lives rent free in my head and makes me suffer everytime im reminded of its existence. sadly i cant exactly step away from myself even if i want to. ultimately deternal isnt 100% behind my shit meltdown, not sure if its even 50%, but its definitely a contributor to my sanity leaving the building.

 

re: playing other games, i have found some solace in system shock lately, cant quite fill the doom shaped hole in my head but its a fun time. i know i sound hypocritical as fuck when i diss deternal's controls and then admit to enjoying the og dos version of sshock, but at least i can play the latter at a pace that isnt 99999 actions per second. and re: getting some air and exercise, i admit i've spent the better part of the year being a goblin wired to my computer staying up all night and eating leftover pizza which probably doesnt help my mental state whatsoever lmao. i'll have to work on that but its been hard doing anything but existing in a perpetual feedback loop.

 

overall i know i shouldnt post during my shit meltdowns but then i do anyway and embarrass myself, and im sorry for being an inconvenience, but at least im glad to see im not the only person in the world who isnt a fan of the weird direction of new dooms. i liked d2016, i had a fun time there, would've been fun to see more of that without going so over the top to the point of overflowing to the bottom. guess i'll have to make my own doom eternal, lets see how that goes

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Posted (edited)

Haven't played Doom '16 or Eternal yet so no comment there.

 

Commenting on this thread with the sole intention to wish @129thVisplane well because you seem to be going through some shitty time. I feel you, even though I can't share your frustration with Doom. May I suggest trying out something like Morrowind or maybe Oblivion (haven't played it myself but I hear it's good if you ignore some bad leveling and graphics).

 

Maybe try some ZDCMP Take II if that's more something you're looking for. It has a story and it is Doom. Or you can try Abysm 2. It's pretty short but has a descent enough story by Doom Standards and though not easy exactly, it isn't as hard as something like Alien Vendetta. Maybe replay some of your favorite Doom Wads or your favorite games.

 

Wishing you well.

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Posted (edited)
31 minutes ago, 129thVisplane said:

overall i know i shouldnt post during my shit meltdowns but then i do anyway and embarrass myself, and im sorry for being an inconvenience

Don't worry dude. We all have these moments. You should see me embarassing myself trying to defend Corridor 7 lol 

We are humans after all and the lockdown is surely making us a bit more sensitive then unsual. Take care.

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6 hours ago, BoxY said:

Although I'm not exactly reduced to tears about it I'm also feeling pretty exhausted with the story writing. When DE launched I was happy to see the turn towards a more bold and colourful tone, because to me Doom is inherently trashy and ridiculous in concept, and it makes more sense to me to lean into that and have some fun with it than to try to pretend that fighting demons on Mars in the future is somehow Very Very Serious and has to be played with a straight face (see ----> dOoM 3). But when I saw Doomguy climb on a fucking dragon to fly to the mystic land of whatever and fight an evil guy in a giant robot suit I realised that the shark was jumped and that the story is basically what you would get if you paid a hyperactive 10 year old in amphetamines to write a D&D campaign scenario.


You are aware that the original concept for Doom was inspired by a D&D session the developers had that went south, right?

 

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1 hour ago, 129thVisplane said:

honestly i havent even touched the game since i begrudgingly replayed it for a friend several months ago, but it lives rent free in my head and makes me suffer everytime im reminded of its existence. sadly i cant exactly step away from myself even if i want to. ultimately deternal isnt 100% behind my shit meltdown, not sure if its even 50%, but its definitely a contributor to my sanity leaving the building.

See this is the part where it is very odd for me to so much as even dare to complain about the current crisis as i have a job that actually still works out in the midst of it (TechHead at a medium sized hospital). Because, many people lost their jobs, or are in the situation as you are.

 

As such it feels almost unjust and luxorious to talk or express my own personal issues, because after all, why would i be having difficulties... i can atleast work.

 

So in a way its threads like these that put things into a differen perspective. I am sorry that it is causing you such amount of trouble.

 

1 hour ago, Noiser said:

Don't worry dude. We all have these moments. You should see me embarassing myself trying to defend Corridor 7 lol 

About that.... are you aware of a certain TC that runs on JDoom? Because if not, i have something to sell you, for free.

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Alright, I was being callous, I admit it, I apologize. Real talk, the story of Doom Eternal, and I've said it before around in Discord; it all sounds like poorly written fan-fiction the more I learn about it lmao. Like, the amount of times things get pulled out of nowhere and how doomguy is now kind of a Mary Sue in Eternal more than in Doom '16 just makes me laugh a bit, and not like w/ story of the game, more like laughing at it for just how whack it all sounds.

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28 minutes ago, Redneckerz said:

About that.... are you aware of a certain TC that runs on JDoom? Because if not, i have something to sell you, for free.

Oh yeah! I'm not a big fan of JDoom's renderer tho, but I'm pretty excited with this.

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1 minute ago, Noiser said:

Oh yeah! I'm not a big fan of JDoom's renderer tho, but I'm pretty excited with this.

So this is not news to you. ;)

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The story in NuDoom post 2016 does feel needlessly convoluted. It's badly in need of an editor, I think. For example I'm still not sure who exactly Samuel Hayden is. Is he a human who became a cyborg and discovered much about the Doom universe through the Corrax tablets? Or is he a Seraph just pretending to be that guy? It seems like there are good arguments to be made for both cases, and the ambiguity on this matter doesn't feel too purposeful. Or maybe it was intended, and I'm a dumb idiot who can't handle too much vagueness on the part of writers.

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The fact that Eternal's level of lore is this inconsistent, on top of how convoluted it is, is baffling to me. Where the original Doom had nearly no plot at all and Doom 2016 got away with minimal yet simple consistent plot elements of Hell, Mars, the UAC and killing Demons, Eternal decides to write an entire codex book on the backstory of Eternal and even the fucking events that happened between D2016 and Eternal. And then like OP mentioned, after you spend a solid hour of reading page after page of codex entries and you finally begin to piece together exactly what the lore is, TAG2 comes out and completely shits all over the convoluted lore with even more convoluted lore. Id Software what happened to you where story was even supposed to matter in a Doom game? The lore is just utter nonsense and I hope the next Doom game is a complete reboot because this story has been atrocious.

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The best thing to do if a series starts heading in a direction you don't like is to just drop it and play something else. I wasn't a fan of Eternal so I never bothered with the DLC. I didn't like the class changes World of Warcraft made in Cataclysm, so I stopped playing it. Switch to something you enjoy instead of sticking with a product which makes you salty.

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Hopefully you step back of Eternal, you don't need to prove anything to you if that disgust you.

Maybe it's the perfect time to play or hype one of thoses retro shooters revival games that aim for a formulas the same as Doom II.
 


Many People of the Doom Community surely looks at this like one game as a good approach of the Doom Formula.
 

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I honestly stop carrying about the DE story.

I really didn´t like how the story was presented to the player. (Never played the any of the DLC.)

 

Doom 2016 has some "forced" lore moments but it was presented by interesting characters in form of monologues all during gameplay (with optional text).

In DE... I feel the whole story thing was "here is a character you will never see again and if you wanna know more go ahead and read all the text".

The stuff they presented by cutscenes, narration and whatnot was a mixed bag.

Some was ABSOLUTELY AMAZING, lot of it was quite frankly cringe and in the end It wasn´t that helpful to see the grand picture.

 

I know they had to build whole DOOM universe so they couldn´t get all the lore in narration and stuff, but the problem is the stuff they shown

didn´t comp me enough to care and read all the lore, except demon codex, that is still very interesting to me.
(The fact I didn´t really like the combat/mechanics didn´t help either.)

 

So the bottom line is I really stop carrying about the plot about 2 hours in and everything I know is from what was presented to me during gameplay

(which was not that much, considering). And because I am not that invested in the universe, it is fine by me.

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DE's """""lore""""" is all the more of a headscratcher because Doom 2016 got it almost pitch perfect.  I wonder if in ten or twenty years we'll get a tell-all book that explains (among other things) the nosedive from the lore being tongue-in-cheek but still coherent, to... whatever the hell this is.

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