There is plenty of story left for a new Doom game

[omx32x]

1 hour ago, Rytrik said:

 

Please see @jamondemarnatural's post which includes links that have evidence to the contrary of your speculations.

what post?

 

14 hours ago, jamondemarnatural said:

Yeah, thats really awkard, because now with Microsoft, they may want a nice Doom for the Xbox Series X 

this one you mean? because they buying it doesnt mean it is confirmed that a new doom game is in the works it just mean they bough the studio

like he himself said "they may want a nice doom for the xbox"

we are all just speculating here we dont have confirmation for anything

3 hours ago, jamondemarnatural said:

I also say that after Doom 2016, but they always working for their next game without public knowledge.  Also this, from id Software.

DOOM Eternal "is not the end of DOOM," says id Software; ideas for the future (gadgetcrutches.com)
https://gadgetcrutches.com/gaming/doom-eternal-is-not-the-end-of-doom-says-id-software-ideas-for-the-future/

Hugo Martin (id Software) to Polygon: The Ancient Gods is the end of the story arc but "there are more stories to tell with the DOOM Slayer, for sure" News | ResetEra
https://www.resetera.com/threads/hugo-martin-id-software-to-polygon-the-ancient-gods-is-the-end-of-the-story-arc-but-there-are-more-stories-to-tell-with-the-doom-slayer-for-sure.397201/

 

 

and if you mean this again i never said this is going to be the end of doom in any way i just said that i think they are done with doom at the time the fact that we will see new doom games in the future doesnt disprove my thoughts at all

[D4NUK1]

@omalefico32x Yeah, i also don't trink we will have news of a NEWER Doom until like 3 or 3 and Half Years.

But im sure, iD software will take their time, rest of the work, and start working again at least at the end of 2021.
I not expect to them be like Activision and Call of Duty, but im know they will had a timelapse reasoonable as 2016-Eternal. Maybe with 8 months added, for any "delays" like it's happened in the Eternal Original "Launch" Date. 

 

[Rytrik]

18 hours ago, omalefico32x said:

i think we wont be seeing any new doom games in this generation but maybe the next one

 

Your exact words.

 

1 hour ago, omalefico32x said:

what post?

 

this one you mean? because they buying it doesnt mean it is confirmed that a new doom game is in the works it just mean they bough the studio

like he himself said "they may want a nice doom for the xbox"

we are all just speculating here we dont have confirmation for anything

and if you mean this again i never said this is going to be the end of doom in any way i just said that i think they are done with doom at the time the fact that we will see new doom games in the future doesnt disprove my thoughts at all

 

So perhaps some clarification is needed on your part. In your original post, what do you mean by "this generation"? Are you meaning a new game for this generation of CONSOLES or this generation of HUMANS?

[UnknDoomer]

How about to move slayer to another dimension and cover Heretic type atmosphere? Second DLC is already close enough in fantasy stuff to it.

[omx32x]

1 hour ago, Rytrik said:

Your exact words.

yes my exact words you know the one that start with "i think"

1 hour ago, Rytrik said:

So perhaps some clarification is needed on your part. In your original post, what do you mean by "this generation"? Are you meaning a new game for this generation of CONSOLES or this generation of HUMANS?

this console gen of course 

[Rytrik]

1 hour ago, omalefico32x said:

this console gen of course 

 

Ok. I understand your position now. 

I don't fully agree with your position. Doom 2016 and Doom Eternal were both released for last gen consoles. Doom Eternal was also released for current gen. That means Last Gen consoles have received "2" Doom games, and current gen consoles have received "1". Thus there is a chance that they'll make another Doom game for PC + Xbox S/X.

 

But who knows what id has in the pipline. Only time will tell. 

[omx32x]

4 minutes ago, Rytrik said:

 

Ok. I understand your position now. 

I don't fully agree with your position. Doom 2016 and Doom Eternal were both released for last gen consoles. Doom Eternal was also released for current gen. That means Last Gen consoles have received "2" Doom games, and current gen consoles have received "1". Thus there is a chance that they'll make another Doom game for PC + Xbox S/X.

 

But who knows what id has in the pipline. Only time will tell. 

i can totaly respect that and yes we got at least one doom game for each console gen but i think we are more likely to see a new ip or a quake reboot before they continue the slayer journey but like i said i can easily be wrong about that

though i do think we will see a spin off or a remake in this gen but not a big project like eternal or 2016

[Duke of Pathoris]

Honestly, I don't think we've seen the end of Doom Eternal DLC. I wonder if their motivation for naming it "eternal" was because they plan to keep it alive for a while with DLC packs. 

[Rudolph]

1 hour ago, Duke of Pathoris said:

Honestly, I don't think we've seen the end of Doom Eternal DLC. I wonder if their motivation for naming it "eternal" was because they plan to keep it alive for a while with DLC packs. 

Crunch Eternal.

[TheRedTide]

There are also 3 different Lords of Hell that are still out there alive. Davoth was the Dark Lord of the 1st Age of Hell, the age of prosperity. After his downfall, three more IIRC ruled over Hell before Olivia Pierce was briefly made into the Mastermind.

[hurricane hoatzine]

I hope we get to play as a night sentinel 

[whatup876]

On 3/22/2021 at 11:39 PM, TheRedTide said:

There are also 3 different Lords of Hell that are still out there alive. Davoth was the Dark Lord of the 1st Age of Hell, the age of prosperity. After his downfall, three more IIRC ruled over Hell before Olivia Pierce was briefly made into the Mastermind.

 

I thought originally, there were 6, no?

I also recall concept art of the Dark Lords/Archdemons.

https://imgur.com/a/Rp3B9Sf

Erebus seems to be the one in the left and he may have been replaced by Kalibas.

The 4 others were completely unused except for the one that became a prop in the Cultist Base.

Still, each one has their own "weird" design and i recall even Hell priests originally looking weirder/more demonic/less human.

These "abstract" forms look like someone was inspired by Wayne Barlowe (who apparently did some concept for the cancelled Doom 4) but i wonder if making models and gameplay would have been difficult.

 

I still hope for weirder demons and Hell locations where the lore might as well be "the info keeps changing and scientists died for knowing too much".

[Yurax]

On 3/23/2021 at 12:39 AM, TheRedTide said:

 before Olivia Pierce was briefly made into the Mastermind.

Well, that would aspire for most brief rulehood duration even for such competetive post like Hell lord.

 

16 hours ago, whatup876 said:

I also recall concept art of the Dark Lords/Archdemons.

Erebus seems to be the one in the left and he may have been replaced by Kalibas.

Kalibas was just some brain and 4 eyes with that cage setting, they will not waste one of hell lords in such simple fight. And there must be more factories with more judges around, Nekravol was used as one to get into Urdak.

[igg]

Hugo hinting at a higher being raises many questions:

• What happened to S. Hayden? 
• What's up with the Crucible prophecy? 
• If Davos is a primeval, do other primevals exist too? 
• Is the higher being specific (a god) or generic (the evil, the good, ...)
• Can humanity open a new Hell portal? 
• Will Doom Eternal get more DLCs or will id Software tell these stories in a new game? 

I'm not sure what to think about Hugos hints at a higher being. It makes the conflict between Vega and Davoth less epic. 

 

Maybe id Software recognized they can't handle a God VS Devil conflict in an epic way right now, so they downsized Davoth and Vega?

[TheRedTide]

Samuel Hayden was just a clone whose consciousness was inhabited by Samur. Eventually whether he died of brain tumor or was replaced altogether by Cyber-Samuel, the outcome was the same, I theorize that Samur specifically chose that cyborg form for Samuel Hayden because he needed something strong enough to survive the expedition into the temple where the Doomguy's sarcophagus was, and bring it back, since it's implied to human UAC soldiers made the trip back from Hell. Still, that doesn't explain how the fuck the UAC manage to capture so many demons. Also, I believe Doom Eternal might be getting more DLCs.

[LANEGRACABRA]

On 3/29/2021 at 3:44 AM, whatup876 said:

 

https://imgur.com/a/Rp3B9Sf

 

They actually bothered to design actual demons for big baddies but went with a doomslayer clone and mech suit as the ultimate overlord of hell??

 

IMO one major fuckup with story is the need and attempt to give everything an origin story, like in this case Hell is some ancient civilization. and the core of Hell seemed like a 40k tech base or something, really took away the hellishness of Hell.

[Z.Franz]

43 minutes ago, LANEGRACABRA said:

 

They actually bothered to design actual demons for big baddies but went with a doomslayer clone and mech suit as the ultimate overlord of hell??

 

IMO one major fuckup with story is the need and attempt to give everything an origin story, like in this case Hell is some ancient civilization. and the core of Hell seemed like a 40k tech base or something, really took away the hellishness of Hell.

Agreed. Hell is just word, the reality should be much worse

 

Instead, it's just alien dimension n°1827494738 etc... Most people make fun of the novels for having aliens disguised as demons...I never would have thought that would become the new canon...

[LANEGRACABRA]

1 minute ago, Z.Franz said:

Agreed. Hell is just word, the reality should be much worse

 

Instead, it's just alien dimension n°1827494738 etc... Most people make fun of the novels for having aliens disguised as demons...I never would have thought that would become the new canon...

 

One of the biggest insults I can think for Doom franchise is comparing it to World of Warcraft and it's basically happened with the demon and hell lore. Unnecessary origin stories about corrupted alien civilizations. Hell is supposed to be ageless and mysterious.

[igg]

I'm totally fine with Hugos statement that the DLCs should be enjoyable for everyone and the master levels are for the pros. I enjoyed TAG2 much more than TAG1.

 

The only weakness of TAG2 is its story, but it's definitely better than TAG1s.

[jazzmaster9]

I personally very okay with Hell being a dimensional place. The Biblical inspired hell has been done to death in fantasy and Horror, that it's cool to see it as an actual civilization with technology and structure. With the amount of Cybernetics they were able to graft to their own forces, there is some semblance of advanced intelligence there.

 

That also means that Hell won't be the only source of Energy by the UAC which expands the potential enemies the Slayer will face. 

Also people who compare this to Warhammer 40K has never actually played the games and just seen the miniatures or people, so I shrug every time the "mech = 40K" or "Platforming = Mario" is used as "objectively correct criticism that requires people getting fired/physically hurt".

 

I do hope they go further with the Doom Eternal's Direction and continue changing, because for a game that has existed for 25+ years, I don't want it to stagnate. I have PRBoom for the classics and Doom 3 for Horror, don't want another clone of those because I already have them.

Edited April 2, 2021 by jazzmaster9

[whatup876]

Besides the matter of "weirdness", mystery etc, you'd also think power level nerds would prefer if Hell was a very abstract dimension that humans couldn't comprehend, which would suit both the weirdness of classic Doom Hell and the notion of "maybe Doom has little story because Hell is supposed to be weird".

Even if Christian/religious depections of Hell in pop culture are somewhat overdone, it wouldn't be that very out of place in Doom, as long as you still mix it with a "Doom touch" to it.

In some way, that is a good reason horror has a place in Doom: it powers Hell, which in return makes Doomguy's achievements even more interesting.

 

Urdak in itself is a unique take on Heaven, but you also wonder if that's not just another example of either Doom being more mainstream it had to play it a bit safe or just the fact that franchises like Bayonetta or SMT already did the cool stuff with Heaven before.

Immora would make a bit more sense if it was Hell copying the concept of tech and a high civilization, as if it were parody.

And like a said before, the Dark Lord being "reverse Doomguy" would work better if Doomguy's HD face was a little bit more faithfull and if his gameplay was mostly mirror in the DL.

And creating more factions beyond "Hell and UAC" may show a distrust in the series' identity, when fans would just assume "Hell is a weird mess, there's so much you can still do with it".

Another thing about lore is establishing limitations that weren't there in the first place, which could even affact gameplay or art direction if it means "X can't happen because of Y".

 

The inclusion of lore, to me, always felt somewhat trend focused, whether it's story being more prevelant in games or just the current status of pop culture and nerd/geek culture. (or rather "other franchises have it too", which i recall something even Hugo brought up in a stream somewhere in February)

Even the references to the Doom comic sort of go on pair with a Looney Tunes mobile game acknowledging Big Chungus: an iconic franchise becomes self-aware of the memes surrounding it, sometimes the more popular/obvious ones. (Sonic obviously did this)

Because Doom was rebooted a few times and the general public had different portrayals, different continuities and reiterations would make a bit more sense than an established major timeline and lore.

It is a small series with a messy premise that could have gone anywhere.

 

With wads and mods, you could examine how fans did their "Doom universe" before (and general fanservice), because i don't think anyone cared that much about Doom's setting than nerds with too much time and focus on specific wall textures.

In general, anything that could/would/should have happened with the franchise sort of did but within a fanbase that directly impacted the series, for better or worse, almost like, i dunno, Touhou?

You could argue it's "too late" to faithfully expand Doom because fans did it too much, which justifies the new games being a reboot doing their own things, but the general public doesn't care much about Doom modding besides Brutal Doom, HDoom and pop culture based mods.

 

Even though the new Doom games stay away from some trends, there are some you can still find in them.

Whether it's the inclusion of "overly nerdy" lore, certain art style parts you compare to DarkSiders or Warframe, RPG elements in non RPG games, time based content or even the "meta/self-aware" aspect of reflecting on a bystander/osmosis based image in pop culture.

It's like getting a new "adult" cartoon series that isn't aping Family Guy, yet it ends up having another recurring art style, like the "beanmouth" one.

 

As gameplay goes, i believe there's still potential for new ideas and mechanics, specially with the absense of a season pass contract.

It's also a matter of the development structure at id, because developing a new enemy could mean making a complex model in a very detailed art style fire, before even getting to the gameplay.

That's partially why i thought a simpler art style could have helped, whether it's a "comic book cel-shaded look" or even low poly models, in a spin-off that looked like your typical indie throwback FPS.

[igg]

The discussion whether Doom 2016 and Eternal are still Doom kind of confirmed John Carmacks statement that Classic Doom meant different things to different people. 

 

Doom was criticized for focusing too much on horror and ignoring the action elements.

 

Doom 2016 was criticized for being too dark (remember the discussion about the yellow "piss" filter and Cacodemons not being colorful?). 

 

Doom Eternal was criticized for being too colorful and too much focus on action instead of horror. 

[Vic Vos]

2 minutes ago, igg said:

The discussion whether Doom 2016 and Eternal are still Doom kind of confirmed John Carmacks statement that Classic Doom meant different things to different people. 

 

Doom was criticized for focusing too much on horror and ignoring the action elements.

 

Doom 2016 was criticized for being too dark (remember the discussion about the yellow "piss" filter and Cacodemons not being colorful?). 

 

Doom Eternal was criticized for being too colorful and too much focus on action instead of horror. 

Noticed that too. Reminds me of that other videogame franchise where there's a civil war over every game, with that blue animal-thing. Not liking the direction it's going, but I guess it was inevitable.

 

2 hours ago, jazzmaster9 said:

I personally very okay with Hell being a dimensional place. The Biblical inspired hell has been done to death in fantasy and Horror, that it's cool to see it as an actual civilization with technology and structure. With the amount of Cybernetics they were able to graft to their own forces, there is some semblance of advanced intelligence there.

 

That also means that Hell won't be the only source of Energy by the UAC which expands the potential enemies the Slayer will face. 

Also people who compare this to Warhammer 40K has never actually played the games and just seen the miniatures or people, so I shrug every time the "mech = 40K" or "Platforming = Mario" is used as "objectively correct criticism that requires people getting fired/physically hurt". 

For once, I agree.

 

Generally, I like the nuDoom lore, even when major plot points would get shafted away between games and DLC (the whole energy stuff, Hayden, etc). However, the storytelling issues that eventually peaked in TAG2 (i.e. retconning major lore like "this guy was God all along! Wait no it wasn't" not only in the DLC, but on secondary sources like Twitch streams) makes me want to ask id a few questions, at the very least.

 

[Malice]

After the abomination that nuDoom eternal was I really hope that what's left of id's corpse and bethesda just let the franchise die.

 

Trying to force an old cult game to appeal to a modern generation by ramming 20 pounds of shit into a 5 pound bag failed miserably. There's no reason they couldn't have just left the basic formula alone. Instead they bastardized the product attempting to incorporate every single modern first person shooter element into a single game leaving the last offering as a shit stain to the trademark.

 

nuDoom 2016 (although not perfect) brought some hope but the followup spun head first off a cliff and now that microshaft recently purchased bethesda it's game over. They've literally ruined everything they've touched since 2010.

[TheRedTide]

14 hours ago, igg said:

Doom Eternal was criticized for being too colorful and too much focus on action instead of horror. 

 

I would agree that Doom Eternal is absurdly cartoonish in several elements, such as the gigantic bright-green weapon pickups floating in the environment like in Q3, whereas in Doom 2016 they were always seamlessly integrated into the environments and props, not to to mention the healthpacks large enough to fit a 5 foot woman in it or the armor pickups with a PS3-tier texture resolution on them. However, I don't agree that the action itself is the problem, but rather what I would consider the worst enemy gameplay design in a FPS game of the last 5 years, beginning with developer's team penchant for giving enemies absolute invulnerability such as the stone imps being immune to anything but the full-auto shotgun mod, or the spirits requiring you to stop in the middle of a fight to colostomize them with the ghostbusters proton stream, or the Marauder having a shield that is literally invincible to anything in the universe even the amount of firepower that would make a Cyberdemon shit itself and finally the Cursed Prowler, whoever invented that thing should be fired and barred from ever working in the videogames industry again, and afterwards exorcized by a Catholic Priest, an Orthodox Priest, a Rabbi and an Imam, simultaneously.

[whatup876]

To add more to my post.

* Immora having "immortal" people doesn't help when the Troopers are the most rushed and basic enemy and there were more demonic armors in 2016 MP.

* Doomguy's current characterization is fanservice based (based on a recent fan portrayal you can trace back to an infamous 4chan copypasta, comics by Faraz Parsa and Death Battle), so that alone sort of feels odd with the explenations set up for Hell.

* In some way, the lore felt like karma against people that made fun of how JRPG's handled religious elements.

* I also prefer MatthewMatoses' take on Doom being "it's not the same but that's fine" which felt more honestly and might as well be a response to both sides in certain discussions about the games.

 

To me, the thing about glowy pick ups is that most of them felt inconsistent because they all did it differently too.

I also associated it with the overall art style being more complex and detailed, besides just the speed of the game.

I still think it's the best FPS in years and maybe some of the faults we complain about may or may not be why the genre was the COD mess in the last decace and so on, even if not even the more casual demographic talks that much about COD anymore.

I wonder what it would be like if 2016/Eternal came around a little early.

Or if an official Doom game was indie or "small-scaled" and leaned a bit closer to the likes of Dusk and Prodeus, but with its own things.

[NoXion]

On 4/3/2021 at 3:42 AM, TheRedTide said:

 

I would agree that Doom Eternal is absurdly cartoonish in several elements, such as the gigantic bright-green weapon pickups floating in the environment like in Q3, whereas in Doom 2016 they were always seamlessly integrated into the environments and props, not to to mention the healthpacks large enough to fit a 5 foot woman in it or the armor pickups with a PS3-tier texture resolution on them. However, I don't agree that the action itself is the problem, but rather what I would consider the worst enemy gameplay design in a FPS game of the last 5 years, beginning with developer's team penchant for giving enemies absolute invulnerability such as the stone imps being immune to anything but the full-auto shotgun mod, or the spirits requiring you to stop in the middle of a fight to colostomize them with the ghostbusters proton stream, or the Marauder having a shield that is literally invincible to anything in the universe even the amount of firepower that would make a Cyberdemon shit itself and finally the Cursed Prowler, whoever invented that thing should be fired and barred from ever working in the videogames industry again, and afterwards exorcized by a Catholic Priest, an Orthodox Priest, a Rabbi and an Imam, simultaneously.

 

It's not that bad. Your irritation has blinded you to the facts.

 

You don't have to use the auto shotgun mod to kill Stone Imps. It's just quicker to kill them. It's not the only quick way of getting rid of them either, before someone else starts complaining about Id crimping their playstyle. Running into them with the chaingun shield still works, right?

 

I thought the Spirits would be the bane of my life when I first heard about them, but frankly they don't turn up often enough in the unmodified DLCs to be like that. What's the problem with them exactly? They can only be killed with one weapon mod? Meh, I just deal with them and move on.

The Marauder can easily be made into a chump if you know what you're doing, and as others have already pointed out to you in the other thread, there are a number of ways of dealing with him that don't involve waiting for his eyes to flash green.

You didn't mention the Blood Maykr, but I'll bring him up since he's an enemy that uses invincibility frames. I never had a problem with him before Id nerfed him, and now he's a pushover.

 

Also you left out the one truly annoying enemy in NuDoom, the Cursed Prowler.

[thewormofautumn]

Just give me more horror in the next game, please.

not body horror/torture. That’s boring. Give me Cosmic level Lovecraftian shit. I want to be a gibbering mess when done 

[thewormofautumn]

But I do also want to know why the Dark Lord was such a C U Next Tuesday. I mean he wanted what was best for his people. He was a god. Had his toys taken away then did everything possible to torture beings to death and beyond across all the dimensions. Even complete innocents.... People who had no idea about what had happened. Why? They should have called him Edge Lord 

[Z.Franz]

2 hours ago, thewormofautumn said:

But I do also want to know why the Dark Lord was such a C U Next Tuesday. I mean he wanted what was best for his people. He was a god. Had his toys taken away then did everything possible to torture beings to death and beyond across all the dimensions. Even complete innocents.... People who had no idea about what had happened. Why? They should have called him Edge Lord 

That's because they didn't know he existed until they made this DLC. When you make stuff up as you go along, things tend not to make sense.