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UnknDoomer

Original atmosphere is lost?

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Posted (edited)

Would have been more exciting if the ultimate end boss was the big icon of sin titan instead of Immora Joe.

 

Does anyone even understand the "lore" of Doomslayer's suit? It bears very much semblance to old Doomguy armor, and has all kinds of number tags and even "caution" texts, is compatible with UAC armor chips yet the night sentinel dudes and their giant mechs have similar looking armor, and according to wiki the mechs existed even before Doomguy came to Sentinel homeworld (and he didn't wear the praetor armor then).

Edited by LANEGRACABRA

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3 hours ago, NeoWorm said:

That is what happens when you replace your actual writer with Hugo Martin and some other morons. Once I found out that Hugo is credited as writer it explained a lot of things.

Hugo himself is not the problem, but it's sort of what happened with George Lucas and the Star Wars prequels. It happens a lot that people surrounding an "accomplished" director/producer/writer/whatever become too single-minded about that person becoming too famous or whatever, that they start believing anything said person does is completely immaculate, even the ideas that are absolutely outlandish and even stupid. The difference is that when they were a nobody, people around them weren't "scared" of discarding their bizarre suggestions.

 

I'm pretty certain that the worst parts of Eternal are entirely because of the mentality of "anything Hugo Martin touches becomes gold". Everyone needs to be told "no" from time to time.

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Posted (edited)
4 hours ago, whatup876 said:

I wouldn't go far with "Disney" but i'm surprised nobody brought up "Joe Mad-esque" or "gentrified heavy metal" as weird takes to describe Doom's currently art style.

Classic Doom is goofy but there was certain differences that would require caring "too much" about Doom's premise, because only certain fans ever go that far. (but at the same time, "it's supposed to be bad" shouldn't be a defense for anything at all, specially since actual "so bad it's good" stuff works better when it's not intentional)

I said disneyland, but I obviously didn't meant it as a visual style. Eternal is constructed as amusement park ride, not as anything even remotely resembling functional world. It immediately destroys immersion and atmosphere keeping only admittedly impressive visuals. But visuals that are empty otherwise.
And classic doom wasn't goofy because they wanted it to be goofy and over the top. They just didn't cared and nobody read the story blurps anyway. The game itself could be taken pretty seriously. But Eternal tries so hard to tell you a story it almost hurts. And the story is so bad that even Plutonia intro is like Shakespeare when compared. It's not that bad it's good, I really think Hugo thinks it's actually good, and it just isn't. And it's that much more shameful because 2016 was able to make the story work with the game, be original and unintrusive.

 

3 hours ago, LANEGRACABRA said:

Does anyone even understand the "lore" of Doomslayer's suit?

There is no lore, only random ideas wihtout any connecting tissue.

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So, like the Martin Scorsese comment on the MCU? (one in which, in an interview, he even mentioned Universal and others wanting to make their Disneyland-like parts or something, but this is off topic)

To be fair, Doom's identity was always "weird" enough and only overanalyzed by some people, some of them being modders or related to that.

 

Maybe with this, Doom could be evidence that modern installments in a franchise can still be good and innovative, even if they're not that deviated from certain current trends of "patterns" in other media.

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9 hours ago, NeoWorm said:

Eternal looks like overstuffed disneyland ride full with all the kitch and bad taste that comes with it.

2016 was more down to earth but at the same time it looked and felt hostile and otherwordly. It had the finesse that Eternal is so lacking.

Sweet gothic architecture, fleshy growths, and the squirming husks of unfortunate souls look like something from an "overstuffed disneyland ride"?

 

lol ok

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Posted (edited)
8 hours ago, NeoWorm said:

I said disneyland, but I obviously didn't meant it as a visual style. Eternal is constructed as amusement park ride, not as anything even remotely resembling functional world. It immediately destroys immersion and atmosphere keeping only admittedly impressive visuals. But visuals that are empty otherwise.
And classic doom wasn't goofy because they wanted it to be goofy and over the top. They just didn't cared and nobody read the story blurps anyway. The game itself could be taken pretty seriously. But Eternal tries so hard to tell you a story it almost hurts. And the story is so bad that even Plutonia intro is like Shakespeare when compared. It's not that bad it's good, I really think Hugo thinks it's actually good, and it just isn't. And it's that much more shameful because 2016 was able to make the story work with the game, be original and unintrusive.

 

There is no lore, only random ideas wihtout any connecting tissue.

How does eternal try hard to tell you the story? Literally all it has is cutscenes and lore pages most people won't even read until they finish the game if at all. An important point you left out is that Eternals cutscenes can actually be skipped and don't lock you into a room. No waiting for Hayden to ramble on while you're locked in a room before you go to the Foundry.  Or rambling on before you go to the Advanced Research Compex. Eternal didn't have a single moment like that, you could skip every single one. Even if there were only 2 of those moments, Eternal has 0 of them and tells story the same way otherwise through codex.

 

2016's story was pretty straight forward and simple, albeit mostly flavor text that adds no development. However, it's like that because the story was literally created last minute during the final months of development and was rushed in, not because they actually wanted to do it that way. It was very convenient that most people liked the approach the came up with, but if the story was made earlier, it probably would have been presented more similarly to Eternal. The cracks show, and they felt obligated to at least try to explain things which is why we get locked in a room and can't move ahead, whereas in Eternal you can steamroll through the whole game without even comprehending any detail about the story whatsoever because it is designed that way.

 

I don't think the story is bad, but it's also not the best. Like it or not, it is absolutely is not intrusive and is actually less intrusive than the previous game. The story is almost an entirely disposable part of Eternal and only serves as a creative seed for the locations we go to and enemies we fight. If you're a nerd though and want the world building in your head, that's what the codex is for, and just about every question you can ask has an answer. But it is disposable otherwise, not important other than giving the devs ideas to steer the map and enemy design.

Edited by oCrapaCreeper

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Regarding what people have mentioned about Eternal not having environments that have any apparent real-life purpose, I *somewhat* agree, though I think it's often exaggerated as being a bigger issue than it really is in the game.

 

It's more of a missing piece than it was in 2016, at any rate. In 2016, most of the environments without any evident purpose were weird chambers in Hell dungeons that were obviously constructed with combat in mind first (think the Dead Simple-esque room with the four raised platforms in Necropolis).

 

In Eternal, most of the Earth levels have an apparent real world purpose: the Arc Complex is an industrial campus/research facility, Hell on Earth is a destroyed city scape, Super Gore Nest/Final Sin are the same. All of these levels have shops, restaurants, apartments and such that you'd expect in a real human city. The Hell environments are abstract and what you'd mostly expect from a Doom game, but Nekravol has a real purpose that is made apparent to the player at the outset. Levels like Taras Nabad and the first half of Exultia are ancient, deteriorating cities that I could certainly see being constructed by some super intelligent human-like race from another dimension.

 

On the other hand, the Cultist Base, Urdak and parts of Doomhunter Base all suffer from a lack of any real apparent purpose. Cultist Base is essentially a series of grisly death traps. Doomhuntee Base is a facility partly for constructing the Doomhunter, and partly just a weird series of platforms and hallways. Urdak is an alien environment where the only obvious thing is that it was built by beings who have an extravagant taste in bizzarely landscaped settings and crazy rock sculptures.

 

Besides those few examples though, I think most of the environments in Eternal have purposes that are pretty easy to deduce.

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Posted (edited)
5 hours ago, Caffeine Freak said:

Regarding what people have mentioned about Eternal not having environments that have any apparent real-life purpose, I *somewhat* agree, though I think it's often exaggerated as being a bigger issue than it really is in the game.

Pretty much. people take bits and pieces of the game, the Mario Fire Bars, the laser traps, the Swinging Axe switch and just focus on that while ignoring everything else; Arc Complex, Earth Levels, Sentinel Prime. Its an Exaggeration. Is it valid criticism? Yes I can see that, but really not game breaking any sense of the way.

 

 

Edited by jazzmaster9

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Posted (edited)
13 hours ago, NeoWorm said:

I said disneyland, but I obviously didn't meant it as a visual style. Eternal is constructed as amusement park ride, not as anything even remotely resembling functional world. It immediately destroys immersion and atmosphere keeping only admittedly impressive visuals.


I think all video game spaces are inevitably like this to varying degrees, unless they have an almost 1:1 correspondence with a real place in meatspace. Even the more "realistic" levels in many video games would be utter nightmares to actually live or work in. Can you imagine the health and safety reports coming out if a place like Mars City Underground in Doom 3 actually existed? That folding bridge section alone would generate years of incidents.

 

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Posted (edited)
15 minutes ago, NoXion said:

Can you imagine the health and safety reports coming out if a place like Mars City Underground actually existed? That folding bridge section alone would generate years of incidents.

Oh my god, my immersion, This game is now 1/10 Hugo is a moron who supports workplace hazards fire him plz and replace him with a safety inspector.

 

But yes, I do agree with your sentiment, Video games will always have those immersion breaking elements. IMO If it serves the gameplay, Especially in Eternal's Bond Villain traps where it tests your platforming reflex, then I don't see it being an issue.

 

The only thing i would say is immersion breaking in the game are the Stun indicators added after TAG2, solely because of how not necessary it is, It doesn't serve the gameplay at all since the monsters already have a stun animation. but even then its a relatively small issue in the grand scheme of things.

Edited by jazzmaster9

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As soon as I first heard the stun indicators go off, I was like "ho ho, the SUPR SRS guys are not gonna like that one".

 

Personally I think the sound is a bit much, I understand why they did it, but my level of play is generally not of the calibre where I feel that I need an obvious auditory cue that can stick out above the general carnage like that. The visual indicator alone is good enough for me, since the demon I'm faltering is usually the demon I'm currently focusing my attention on.

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Posted (edited)

oddly enough out of all the recently released games out, Eternal was the only one that felt like everything came together Gameplay Wise (Demon's Souls remake kinda, but that's a remake *shrug*), that and maybe Sekiro.

The Story was a mess by TAG2 so I can't disagree with those sentiments.

 

It's really just those missteps, Cursed Prowler, Purple Sludge that just feels so out of place but are pretty minor in the grand scheme of things

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