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UnknDoomer

Original atmosphere is lost?

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Posted (edited)

Currently playing second DLC. Probably not compare to first two games, but to Doom 3 and Doom (2016) it looks like now more an a sort of another Warhammer 40,000 title (what is one armor of dark lord worth) + some parts from Elder Scrolls (those dragons and so) and Super Mario with all this colored bonuses, sounds and stunned enemies. Ever cyberdemons now can be just an a small part of regular fight...

 

The legacy of arcade games has always been a doom trait, more or less. But another two parts... It looks like the strange mystical atmosphere of the original is now lost. How do you think?

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I think the main reasoning for the loss of atmosphere is mostly due to doomguy's insane speed, among other things. It came with the tradeoff of awesome gameplay though, so I'm fine with it.

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To put it simply:

 

gameplay and replayability:

 

eternal > 2016

 

 

Atmosphere, story

 

2016 >> eternal > DLCs

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43 minutes ago, Arbys550 said:

I think the main reasoning for the loss of atmosphere is mostly due to doomguy's insane speed, among other things. It came with the tradeoff of awesome gameplay though, so I'm fine with it.

 

I think, that in 2016 he is bit faster (or acceletates faster) in plain run than in Eternal, but has no dashes, which makes total speed archievable faster in Eternal.

 

And i like 2016's chaingun much more and pre-rotator mod also. Fun with Rich get richer.

Also cyber-tech aesthetic of Gauss railgun i liked more. But used to occult balista with time.

 

But return to very original design of daemons in Eternal is great.

2016 was only Mars bases, labs, factories and of course some Hell plains. No A'd'Nur or Nekravol.

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I mentioned this a while ago in another thread, but the worst thing that happened with Doom Eternal was that id Software was given complete freedom to do whatever they wanted with the game and the story after Doom 2016 became a surprise hit, but 2016 being a product of constraints and limitations Bethesda put in place during development. Even Hugo Martin himself once said that the worst thing you can do for a creator is giving them complete freedom.

 

Lol.

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Posted (edited)

Yeah, the amosphere in Doom Eternal and its DLCs is too cartoony. The icing on the cake is this ridiculous looney-tunes sound effect when you stun enemies with the Sentinel Hammer.

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Posted (edited)

I like how many new areas and locations we get to visit in Eternal compared to 2016, Hell city, Gothic Space Station, Hell on Earth, Angelic Dimension, Arctic Cultist base, Ancient ruins in a forest...etc

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I really love the grittiness of 2016... while I totally understand the reasoning for Eternal's cartoony and bright colour palette (the original Dooms are cartoony and have a vivid colour palette) I feel they kinda went a little overboard. They still could have retained 2016's grit and still made Eternal be colourful in it's own way to a lesser extent than they did. For me, the lore of the "new Dooms" is a separate element from the game itself and as Hugo Martin has said countless times, it's there if you want it... and if you don't, forget about it and just shoot shit. It's upto you...

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Posted (edited)

When it comes to level art design, 2016 is undoubtedly the worst, having only 3 types of levels: Techbase, Outside and Hell. Which is fine for what is basically a Doom 1 remake, but would be unacceptable for the next game. Eternal and the DLC's have much more variety, which I absolutely adore.

Now lore, on the other hand... They were clearly writing by the seat of their pants, which has reached its zenith in TAG2.
There's also the fact that it is much harder to understand Eternal's basic plot without reading up on secondary media - 2016's Codex entries - that's just poor storytelling.

Edited by Vic Vos

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14 hours ago, hfc2x said:

I mentioned this a while ago in another thread, but the worst thing that happened with Doom Eternal was that id Software was given complete freedom to do whatever they wanted with the game and the story after Doom 2016 became a surprise hit, but 2016 being a product of constraints and limitations Bethesda put in place during development. Even Hugo Martin himself once said that the worst thing you can do for a creator is giving them complete freedom.

 

Lol.

 

Too much Freedom isn't good.

Limitations lead to an Mixture of rational and creative Thinking.

 

But it is hard to find the sweet Spot.

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Posted (edited)
Quote

id Software was given complete freedom

I like the direction it's taking.

Some leaked footage of the third game in the current new series. Now, after Mick Gordon left the team, with new, better sound design:

 

Edited by UnknDoomer

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maybe quake spoiled me but i never felt the dark atmosphere in the original games (not including mods)

though i do agree that 3 and 2016 had a really cool atmosphere i just felt that the one in eternal felt more in place with the original doom games though thats just my opinion

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The only "scary" games are PSX Doom, Doom 64 and Doom 3. The rest are very over the top and silly, even 2016 if you pay attention. Just that Eternal chose to be overall way more cartoony.

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On 3/22/2021 at 2:47 AM, Doom-X-Machina said:

The hell maps in 2016 look better than the hell maps in Eternal...

You know, can you explain why you think 2016's Hell maps look better? I never understood this viewpoint.

 

DOOM 2016's Hell is almost all just drab rocky terrains and caves with the occasional neat decoration (such as the Icon of Sin's remains in the Necropolis).

 

DOOM Eternal's Hell, on the other hand, has sweet gothic architecture, fleshy growths, and the squirming husks of unfortunate souls. It's pretty much everything a modern interpretation of DOOM's Hell should be if you ask me.

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17 hours ago, omalefico32x said:

maybe quake spoiled me but i never felt the dark atmosphere in the original games (not including mods)

though i do agree that 3 and 2016 had a really cool atmosphere i just felt that the one in eternal felt more in place with the original doom games though thats just my opinion

 

Yep, that was also my feeling about Eternal, that it matches more old one.

2016 is somewhere between Doom 3 and Eternal (thats also why i tried to interact with the screens so much and pressed sometimes F for the Torch ^^).

 

26 minutes ago, chemo said:

You know, can you explain why you think 2016's Hell maps look better? I never understood this viewpoint.

 

DOOM 2016's Hell is almost all just drab rocky terrains and caves with the occasional neat decoration (such as the Icon of Sin's remains in the Necropolis).

 

DOOM Eternal's Hell, on the other hand, has sweet gothic architecture, fleshy growths, and the squirming husks of unfortunate souls. It's pretty much everything a modern interpretation of DOOM's Hell should be if you ask me.

 

Yep i pretty like Hell in both Games.

Some neat Trickery as in Doom 3 with the moving Blocks that play with your Mind would be cool, but i think that doesn't matches the Pacing of the Game :)

 

The only thing i really feel sad about is that the Background of Hell shiftet into something such explainable and human.

 

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On 3/22/2021 at 7:47 AM, Doom-X-Machina said:

The hell maps in 2016 look better than the hell maps in Eternal...

 

Though Nekravol looks awesome in DE. It's quite atmospheric.

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Posted (edited)
On 3/21/2021 at 6:58 AM, UnknDoomer said:

Currently playing second DLC....

Not only I 10000000% agreed, dlc 2 is a fucking abomination and should've never happened. DLC2 only proves that Hugo Martin MUST be removed from game direction once and for all, his authorities must be reduced to gameplay advisor only. I can't beleive there's such a HUUGE step in wrong direction compared not only to 16 but DE and dlc 1 as welll. Doom as a unique mystical experience is dead and we can all thank Hugo Martin for that, well done mate, well done!

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4 hours ago, id.dav said:

Doom as a unique mystical experience is dead and we can all thank Hugo Martin for that

I'm not sure I've been playing the same games for the past 20+ years as you have.

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14 hours ago, id.dav said:

Not only I 10000000% agreed, dlc 2 is a fucking abomination and should've never happened. DLC2 only proves that Hugo Martin MUST be removed from game direction once and for all, his authorities must be reduced to gameplay advisor only. I can't beleive there's such a HUUGE step in wrong direction compared not only to 16 but DE and dlc 1 as welll. Doom as a unique mystical experience is dead and we can all thank Hugo Martin for that, well done mate, well done!

Is this satire?

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15 hours ago, id.dav said:

Not only I 10000000% agreed, dlc 2 is a fucking abomination and should've never happened. DLC2 only proves that Hugo Martin MUST be removed from game direction once and for all, his authorities must be reduced to gameplay advisor only. I can't beleive there's such a HUUGE step in wrong direction compared not only to 16 but DE and dlc 1 as welll. Doom as a unique mystical experience is dead and we can all thank Hugo Martin for that, well done mate, well done!

 

Hm i don't know.

In the Video with him it seems like he is pretty aware of what is wrong with the DLCs.

He mentiones that the fight at the Bridge isn't to hard, but that Players feel exhausted at that Point.

He is totally right with that, i am even surprised he tooks the Word i am doing for it.

Also that the Game should be for every Fan, not only the fast switching Pros.

I've played on UV the Main Game, but the "Spikes" as he mentioned just exhausted me.

Somehow it seems like they are not good at finding a Balance in the Game.

I think they have focused to much on those damn gimmicky Enemies, so they had the wrong Focus.

 

Sad that all the changed also touch the Main Game, as i was totally happy with it.

 

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Besides Doom already being redesigned/rebooted some times, i always thought 2016 had some bits that were later "multiplied" in Eternal, while Eternal also had some differences.

I also wonder if the battle scene in Immora would have been less strange to people, if it was rather UAC mechs and soldiers instead of Sentinel.

I feel like people are only starting to notice how different Doom is because of the inclusion of the Sentinels, when the universe of Doom was "humans/Earth/UAC and demons".

Same probably for Maykrs, specially with what people thought a Heaven could have been.

Immora having some civilization of potential humans probably didn't help.

 

Could also be something with what the setting of Doom 1/2 could have been or what potential it had, that later games never took advantage of.

Whether it's a truly abstract, shape shifting Hell or the low-tech yet somewhat both rusty and comfy UAC Phobos bases.

In some way, Doom's potential expanded universe/identity/whatever you call it exists more in fanworks.

 

Could also have something to do with how Doomguy is written/design nowadays.

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That is what happens when you replace your actual writer with Hugo Martin and some other morons. Once I found out that Hugo is credited as writer it explained a lot of things.

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On 3/25/2021 at 9:40 AM, chemo said:

You know, can you explain why you think 2016's Hell maps look better? I never understood this viewpoint.

 

DOOM 2016's Hell is almost all just drab rocky terrains and caves with the occasional neat decoration (such as the Icon of Sin's remains in the Necropolis).

 

DOOM Eternal's Hell, on the other hand, has sweet gothic architecture, fleshy growths, and the squirming husks of unfortunate souls. It's pretty much everything a modern interpretation of DOOM's Hell should be if you ask me.

Eternal looks like overstuffed disneyland ride full with all the kitch and bad taste that comes with it.

2016 was more down to earth but at the same time it looked and felt hostile and otherwordly. It had the finesse that Eternal is so lacking.

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Posted (edited)

I do hope Hugo stays as part of the writing team, I Love the Power Metal vibe Eternal's atmosphere and stroy has going on. It's what I love about most custom Doom mods, its not bound to any conventional Triple A Format.

Edited by jazzmaster9

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Posted (edited)
Quote

Eternal looks like overstuffed disneyland ride

But it don't have princess Peach.

 

 

Well, for the moment.

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If Disney rides had the visuals of Doom Eternal I would be more motivated to go to them.

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Posted (edited)

To be fair, the difference between wads and how Hugo Martin expand Doom is that wads were multiple interpretations on Doom, while what we're getting "officialy" is a single "universe"; with its own laws and rules, for a series whose versatility and longevity may have benefitted from lack of laws in general.

It's why think it would be more fair it there was another example of a "Doom expanded universe" without preventing Hugo's take from existing: because if Doom's identity is a question hard to "solve", might as well come up with multiple answers and play with that, instead of anything definitive.

It may be similar to what happened to comic book franchises (something the new games take inspiration from) but with the difference being that the gameplay is a bigger focus than a "true" continuity.

 

I wouldn't go far with "Disney" but i'm surprised nobody brought up "Joe Mad-esque" or "gentrified heavy metal" as weird takes to describe Doom's currently art style.

Classic Doom is goofy but there was certain differences that would require caring "too much" about Doom's premise, because only certain fans ever go that far. (but at the same time, "it's supposed to be bad" shouldn't be a defense for anything at all, specially since actual "so bad it's good" stuff works better when it's not intentional)

 

You can make Doom the "silly/campy 80's film" and add in "Satanic horror" without slipping into either extremes.

This IS a very small series (not like other ongoing videogame icons) with a silly AND small, unfinished universe, that was overexplored by a very dedicated fanbase, who impacted the series with varying results, specially when it was dormant.

There's also a difference between a reboot introducing a new art style direction and modders either making new weapons and textures that fit the classic "low-tech, b-movie, used future" aesthetic or add to re-edit a Baron of Hell spriteset until a more talented sprite artist made a simpler demon sprites with a more unique design.

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