What are some Doom II megawads that are as difficult as Plutonia on Ultra Violence?

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Edited June 12, 2022 by a.a.i.

[Salmon]

I'd recommend skillsaw's Lunatic and Vanguard.  They're both good introductions to a particular style you'll see in more modern mapping without being too difficult.  UV on a first playthrough should be fine for both.

 

I'm playing Plutonia 2 for the first time myself right now and I think I would have found it pretty tough having only played the IWADs.  You could probably do it if you wanted, though--my own progression past the IWADs was more difficult (Plutonia HMP to Ancient Aliens UV) and I am definitely not a great player.  I think Plutonia 2 is very good and often has some beautiful maps.  Downsides for me would be that it sometimes feels like a bit of a slog and progression isn't always the clearest, which is why I hesitate to say yes.

 

This thread might be of interest to you:
https://www.doomworld.com/forum/topic/107015-wad-progression-for-skill-improvement/

[GraphicBleeder]

Plutonia 2 and Hell Revealed. Check those out if you haven't already.

[DOEL]

the most consistent Plutonia style "combat puzzle" megawad in my experience is Bloodstain. it's my gold standard for gameplay along with Scythe 2 and Alien Vendetta

 

if you want something I'd venture is a step beyond Plutonia in difficulty, I'd give Stardate 20X6, 20X7, and Sunlust a try

[Dwimepon]

I really like Swift Death. It takes the core idea behind Plutonia (High enemy count in smaller levels) and goes even further - every level is basically one big, intense arena. Honestly one of the first few megawads I've actually fully beaten, secret levels and all, because it's just that dang fun.

[Deadwing]

From these already mentioned, BTSX1 is also a good pick. Jenesis too.

 

If you want something more easy but still fun, Deathless and 25 years of doom are great.

[valkiriforce]

I'm just gonna shamelessly mention Doom Core and Reverie. I was just getting back into Doom at the time of making them and enjoying my time with Final Doom and other megawads at the time, so I feel like they both carry some influence from the classic Doom IWADs while having a little bit of that community flair.

[xX_Lol6_Xx]

scythe, from map 21 to map 30

[Doom-X-Machina]

14 hours ago, Deadwing said:

 Jenesis too.

 

Playing through that again right now. Love it. Gorgeous maps!

Edited March 23, 2021 by Doom-X-Machina

[ReaperAA]

4 hours ago, DOEL said:

if you want something I'd venture is a step beyond Plutonia in difficulty, I'd give Stardate 20X6, 20X7, and Sunlust a try

 

To be fair, I wouldn't recommend Ribbiks' wads to someone who just freshly graduated from Plutonia as they would be way too hard for such a person. 

 

I would personally recommend older Skillsaw stuff like Lunatic/Vanguard and also wads like Jenesis, BTSX E1, Eviternity and Alien Vendetta for stuff that is a bit harder than Plutonia, but still accessible for a fresh-from-Plutonia player. 

[continuum.mid]

Plutonia 2 is meant to be a direct progression from Plutonia. I'd also recommend Skillsaw's works (Vanguard, Lunatic, Valiant, Ancient Aliens, Heartland) as suggested before; they are roughly equal to Plutonia in difficulty, but have a very different style of gameplay.

 

Personally, my first megaWAD after Plutonia (and the other commercial IWADs, Sigil, NRFTL, and Freedoom) was the Japanese Community Project, though that's definitely easier than Plutonia.

[Doomkid]

I'll just promote my own community project here since it took a big spoonful of Plutonia:

 

 

^{inb4 dmslr posts the "Obama giving Obama a medal" meme}

[Phobus]

Plutonia 1024: The Plutinya Experiment has some fairly faithful pint-sized takes on the formula.

[roadworx]

8 hours ago, northivanastan said:

Plutonia 2

nahh, op should skip right to the obviously superior plutonia 3

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Edited June 12, 2022 by a.a.i.

[continuum.mid]

2 hours ago, a.a.i. said:

I had no idea there's a Plutonia 3. Did you mean Plutonia Revisited?

There's a jokewad called Plutonia 3, it's not worth playing. There's also a team project called Plutonia 3 that is in progress and actually looks like it has potential, play that when/if it comes out.

 

[Silhouette 03]

2 hours ago, a.a.i. said:

I had no idea there's a Plutonia 3. Did you mean Plutonia Revisited?

I've linked this video so many times, but plutonia 3: going to surface is the gold standard of Doom mapping. It needs to be seen to be believed.

 

Welcome to Doomworld, man! Plutonia 2 and revisited are on par with the original's difficullty, with some added spice, though not to an excess. There's also a sequel to revisited in the works, as well:

 If you enjoy playing through megawads, maybe have a look at the DW Megawad club. Check out the Doomworld Wadazine for wad reccomendations as well.

https://www.doomshack.org/wadazine/

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Edited June 12, 2022 by a.a.i.

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Edited June 12, 2022 by a.a.i.

[I Drink Lava]

Dave Swift's maps for H2H-Xmas can be thought of as prototypes of the slaughtermap style, but the rest of the MegaWAD is pretty standard difficulty for the most part. Pavel Hodek's maps hold up pretty well for 1995 standards, even if they're obvious Deathmatch conversions.

[P41R47]

5 minutes ago, I Drink Lava said:

Dave Swift's maps for H2H-Xmas can be thought of as prototypes of the slaughtermap style, but the rest of the MegaWAD is pretty standard difficulty for the most part. Pavel Hodek's maps hold up pretty well for 1995 standards, even if they're obvious Deathmatch conversions.

Seconding this.

H2H-Xmas is really Plutonia style.

Hard maps and abstract in design.

 

Aside from that, for some real challenging fun, check the following:

Speed of Doom,

Resurgence,

Unholy Realms,

Urania,

Skepland,

TNT: Revilution,

Preacher,

Kama Sutra,

Could You Would You in a Box,

CPD

3 Heures d'Agonie and it sequels

Swift Death

Doom 404

 

Those offer a fair and growing challenge, even being really hard by the end, but without being brutally hard like some Ribbik's mapsets.

[dei_eldren]

i'd second Hell Revealed, from map11 onwards.

[pcorf]

Just try Sunder on nightmare if you want hard!

[General Rainbow Bacon]

I'm playing through the two Combat Shock wads right now.  At first glance, they look slaughtery and crazy, but so far they aren't too bad.  At least not the first one. 

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Edited June 12, 2022 by a.a.i.

[General Rainbow Bacon]

^It's not an easy one, but the difficulty curve doesn't go up much.  Pretty much just starts hard and stays around there.

[roadworx]

22 hours ago, a.a.i. said:

I'm playing Jenesis and getting my ass kicked... in map 2! To think this is supposedly on the easier end of the difficulty spectrum

jenesis is really freakin' hard at the start, but it gets easier. just hang in there

[Andromeda]

I find it amusing that most of the recommendations given so far are much harder than Plutonia.

[GarrettChan]

16 minutes ago, Andromeda said:

I find it amusing that most of the recommendations given so far are much harder than Plutonia.

The fact could be that people over think Plutonia's difficulty despite it being not very difficult.

 

-------------------------------

 

These suggestions are based on my personal scale, which is not accurate at all, so trust it at your own risk:

 

Plutonia's difficulty level is 1 out of 5.

 

Similar difficulty:

Lunatic (0.9), Doom 2 the Way Id Did (0.9), Glaive (0.9), Coffee Break Episode 1 (0.9), Violence (0.9)

 

A bit harder:

TNT: Revilution (1.6), Back to Saturn X Episode 1 (1.6), Swicheroom 2 (1.5), Japanese Community Project (1.3)

 

Also, I saw somebody recommended Urania. I go strongly against it because it doesn't represent usual mapping style and the audience is quite unique. Furthermore, I rated it 3.4 in difficulty by my scale, but of course you can lower the difficulty.

Edited March 29, 2021 by GarrettChan

[dmslr]

9 minutes ago, Andromeda said:

I find it amusing that most of the recommendations given so far are much harder than Plutonia.

I think saves mess up the ability to give a proper difficulty grade. They just don't play these wads without saving, I can't blame them though.