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What are some Doom II megawads that are as difficult as Plutonia on Ultra Violence?

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2 minutes ago, GarrettChan said:

The fact could be that people over think Plutonia's difficulty despite it being not very difficult.

It is really difficult by 1996 standards, certainly harder than Doom, Doom II, TNT, and Perdition's Gate. But Doom players have gotten better since then, and WADs have gotten a lot harder.


I'd say the average megaWAD of today is just a little above Plutonia difficulty.

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1 minute ago, northivanastan said:

I'd say the average megaWAD of today is just a little above Plutonia difficulty.

Yes, please read my updated post. I made the post too quickly and forgot to do the actual thing OP asked for.


However, I would say it's still quite popular that people like to say Plutonia is BS, or something artificial difficulty or whatnot. To me, Plutonia is a very good exam to test whether you entered the door of Doom world (no pun intended).

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19 minutes ago, a.a.i. said:

The below thread suggests to play Scythe after Plutonia. How hard would it be on your scale? 

Scythe is a weird one because earlier maps are actually similar to Plutonia, but Episode 3 (Map21 ~ 30) is pretty tough. My grades are based on the hardest map in the set, so in my scale, Scythe is 2.8 solely due to Map30. (My standard for difficulty 3 is that I need to take a little effort to Max it without saves. Though I'm not a top tier player, I have plenty of experience of speedrunning and playing hard maps.)


I would say you can try to play Scythe, but if you ran into a wall in Episode 3, feel free to play something else to improve your understanding of the game a bit, or maybe lower the difficulty (I don't know how well it scales for Scythe though). I'm not saying you shouldn't challenge yourself, but a steep progression may result in quickly losing interest of the game.

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2 hours ago, a.a.i. said:

So it's like 3 Go 2 it's put together? That's insane 

Well, I guess putting it this way can't really make you think of it properly...


The thing which makes Go 2 It easy is that you have a camp where almost no monster can wander into and you can take things step by step from there. Later Scythe maps don't really have this (technically it has, but it's way harder to liberate the land you want to use), and sometimes you're forced to take some risky strategy to make things easier.


I do recommend trying Scythe out for sure. It's a very outstanding 200X mapset. It does somewhat create a standard for how later vanilla/limit removing mapset should feel.

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I would suggest trying out Eviternity megawad. Or at least the first 15-17 maps from it.


Eviternity has a relatively smooth difficulty curve and gradually climbs from TNT:Revillution-on-UV difficulty to modern megawad difficulty during its first 15 maps.

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32 minutes ago, a.a.i. said:

Eviternity is absolutely gorgeous, one of the best looking mapsets made. I know it sounds weird, but I'm kinda saving it for the last because after playing Eviternity, classical styled maps will be hard to go back to!  

Well, in that case, I second Scythe I . (But be ready to hit some pretty hard challenges after map 20! You may want to switch megawad before you reach infamous map30) I can also suggest playing some early maps from Alien Vendetta and Hell Revealed I. (Later maps of those pwads are completely different story)

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2 hours ago, a.a.i. said:

I'm done with the first 26 maps of Scythe. The maps are short, fun and leave you wanting for more. The first 10 maps were really easy. Maps 11 - 21 saw a gradual increase in difficulty, but nothing too crazy. 


Map 22 is where things get really hard. 22 - 24 was an insane 3 map stretch. I took a thorough beating here and almost ragequit at several points. I did get through them somehow but not without saves. What makes these maps so much harder than something like Plutonia is there is NO armor and there's just enough health and ammo, thus permitting very few mistakes.


Map 25 was a much needed breather. Map 26 is intimidating at first with over 600 monsters. But all you need to do is spam the BFG relentlessly. Unironically, the easiest map in episode 3. 


I'm exhausted now

Wow, you reached so deep into the Scythe megawad! I have quite a few other suggestions now.

But I want to ask you a question first:

How often do you use saves? Once or twice? Never? Depending on map lenght?

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In that case I can suggest the following for a change of pace:

- Lunatic. A short pwad by Skillsaw. I pesonally never played it, but it is short and almost everyone on Doomworld loves Lunatic. Skillsaw's maps always are at least good, and often extermely good.

- Doom the way Id did: Three episodes for doom 1, inspired by the orginal doom 1. Fun and not evil in difficulty.

- Roudy Rudy II: powertrip: this one changes all the wepons and most monsters. I suggest playing it on Hard (Hurt me plenty equivalent), because the later levels are quite evil. You can later replay it on Expert if you like what you played.

- Valiant. A megawad by Skillsaw which changes most monsters and also gives you the super chaingun. Maps here are bigger and tougher then in Scythe, so I again suggest playing it on lower difficulty then UV and switching to UV after map 10 or 11, if you would feel that the maps are too easy on HMP.


Also, after Scythe you can proceed to Plutonia II. This one is somewhat similar to Scythe, but with longer and harder maps.

Basically if you like Scythe I and Plutonia Experiment and want more of similar things -- play Plutonia II, it is pretty good.

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10 hours ago, a.a.i. said:

I have been wanting to play Plutonia II since the day I beat the original, just wasn't sure if I could handle it. If I get through all of Scythe, will definitely give it a go! 

The first half of Plutonia II is definetly easier than the final stretch of Scythe. So you can start it whenever you get fedd up with Scythe.

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EDIT: I just found out that the author of the megawad I mentioned has been banned from Doomworld. Sorry about that.

Edited by Rudolph

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On 3/30/2021 at 3:30 AM, GarrettChan said:

These suggestions are based on my personal scale, which is not accurate at all, so trust it at your own risk:


Plutonia's difficulty level is 1 out of 5.


Similar difficulty:

Lunatic (0.9), Doom 2 the Way Id Did (0.9), Glaive (0.9), Coffee Break Episode 1 (0.9), Violence (0.9)


A bit harder:

TNT: Revilution (1.6), Back to Saturn X Episode 1 (1.6), Swicheroom 2 (1.5), Japanese Community Project (1.3)


Popping in to second the Japanese Community Project recommendation. While it's been a while since my first playthrough of Plutonia, I've been playing through JCP and it does feel like a logical progression from Plutonia difficulty-wise without immediately jumping into back-end-of-Scythe levels of monster density. It's perhaps quite a departure from the tone and ethos of Plutonia, what with the playfulness of the whole experience (MAP11 is... special), but it's an outstanding, clever set of maps that's well worth playing. Really charming.

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