What's considered to be the highest quality, most top tier WAD out there?

[AtticTelephone]

Flotsam is a very underrated masterpiece, but it's hard as hell.

[Chopkinsca]

You need to start out with the crappy wads, so it's all uphill from there! 

 

You are in luck with wanting to play community wads. Oh so many years worth of content out there at this point. Have fun diving in.

[roadworx]

if you're looking for stuff that's more representative of what the community is like now, i'd say to go and play some skillsaw wads. he's very highly regarded, and for good reason. btsx and eviternity are also both very good

 

personally, i'd recommend alien vendetta, memento mori 2, and reverie, but i'm a bit more inclined towards more classic-styled stuff so idk if i'm the best source for people wanting to get into doom wads lol

 

8 minutes ago, AtticTelephone said:

Flotsam is a very underrated masterpiece, but it's hard as hell.

recommending flotsam to a beginner is so cruel lmao

[ReaperAA]

Right now (atleast in my opinion) Heartland has set a new bar for quality Doom wads.

 

Apart from that, I would recommend checking out Eviternity, BTSX, Valiant, Ancient Aliens, Sunlust for their sheer quality of aesthetics and gameplay.

 

If you are looking for more classic styled (but still well polished) wads, I would recommend Jenesis, Alien Vendetta, Deathless, Scythe, The Darkening E2, TNT:Revilution.

 

Edited March 27, 2021 by ReaperAA

[Maes]

I'm partial to Doomguy's Pimp Ventures and Doomguy's Pimp Ventures 2: The More, The Merrier myself. But it's only with Part 3: Cybie Dreams that you will finally enjoy complete love and freedom.

[Jiggahertz]

Ok so yesterday I looked through a bunch of WADs from the Cacowards and from your guys' suggestions, and I downloaded the ones that looked appealing to me.

 

The WADs that I downloaded so far are:

 

Eviternity

Hellbound

25 Years on Earth

Plutonia 2

Requiem

Resurgence

Rush

Sunlust

UAC Ultra

Scythe

The Slaughter Spectrum

Valiant

Endless Torture

Japanese Community Project

180 Minutes Pour Vivre

Vanguard

Scythe 2

SigmaX

BTSX E1

BTSX E2

Sunder

Refracted Reality

Flotsam

Micro Slaughter Community Project

Edited November 24, 2021 by TheUnstableNutcase

[Jiggahertz]

6 hours ago, roadworx said:

if you're looking for stuff that's more representative of what the community is like now, i'd say to go and play some skillsaw wads. he's very highly regarded, and for good reason. btsx and eviternity are also both very good

 

personally, i'd recommend alien vendetta, memento mori 2, and reverie, but i'm a bit more inclined towards more classic-styled stuff so idk if i'm the best source for people wanting to get into doom wads lol

 

recommending flotsam to a beginner is so cruel lmao

The hardest thing I've done is beat Plutonia and its secret levels on UV, but I've never seen some of these other WADs so idk how difficult they are in comparison lol

[P41R47]

11 hours ago, dei_eldren said:

 

In my review of HR i was hoping Datacore would've actually done the other episodes, too, but was unable to find them - thanks a lot!

Yeah, i helped Datacore vanilla-fying it around the end of 2018. 
He also contributed some really good maps for the 3 Heures d'Agonie serie and almost a complete Doom 2 megawad called ''And the Bloodshed Began''.

He made another complete Doom 2 megawad in the style of Endless Torture cramped small and challenging maps, Short Maps for Short People.

Roofi made a sequel to it, Short Maps for Short People 2 with some maps by Datacore himself and only one by Vergogneful.

And some maps of one of my favourite mapsets ever, Tangerine Nightmare, are by Datacore with contributions by francFRAG.

 

Certainly, the french community has some outstanding mappers :)

[roadworx]

30 minutes ago, TheUnstableNutcase said:

The hardest thing I've done is beat Plutonia and its secret levels on UV, but I've never seen some of these other WADs so idk how difficult they are in comparison lol

the hardest thing i suggested is alien vendetta, which on uv is quite a bit harder than plutonia. but some of the stuff people here are suggesting (holy hell, flotsam, deus vult ii, sunder) are way, WAYYY harder than most of what you'll play lol. imagine go 2 it but bigger and with wayyy more monsters

[dei_eldren]

4 hours ago, P41R47 said:

Certainly, the french community has some outstanding mappers :)

 

i agree.  Absolutely loved Datacore's, and others', style and maps in 180 Minutes Pour Vivre, as well as his totally different style of maps in HaRe (& ET didn't disappoint when i played its first five maps yesterday) - it really is a remarkably faithful remake in every sense, without directly repeating anything from the original. 

 

So, glad you recommended these!  Look forward to playing them.

[Jacek Bourne]

Sunder should be on the list, albeit far down on it based on what I know about your skill level and Flotsam and Dimensions should also be there. Those two farther onwards than Sunder. Dimensions is one of the most difficult wads out there and Flotsam is also quite difficult yet not to the same degree. Sunder is populated with massive maps and excellently detailed architecture. If you have a slow computer then later maps will not be accessible unless you are on a faster sourceport such as prboom+. Scythe 2 is another exccellent wad which along the difficulty curve is above Alien Vendetta and Speed of Doom especially in it's later maps. A good entry level slaughter wad is Rush. If you've never played slaughter before then that is where you should most likely begin. Stardate 20x6 and 20x7 are more fairly difficult wads that you should definately play at some point.

[Jiggahertz]

5 hours ago, Jacek Bourne said:

Sunder should be on the list, albeit far down on it based on what I know about your skill level and Flotsam and Dimensions should also be there. Those two farther onwards than Sunder. Dimensions is one of the most difficult wads out there and Flotsam is also quite difficult yet not to the same degree. Sunder is populated with massive maps and excellently detailed architecture. If you have a slow computer then later maps will not be accessible unless you are on a faster sourceport such as prboom+. Scythe 2 is another exccellent wad which along the difficulty curve is above Alien Vendetta and Speed of Doom especially in it's later maps. A good entry level slaughter wad is Rush. If you've never played slaughter before then that is where you should most likely begin. Stardate 20x6 and 20x7 are more fairly difficult wads that you should definately play at some point.

What about GZDoom? That's the "fastest" sourceport right?

[Jacek Bourne]

3 hours ago, TheUnstableNutcase said:

What about GZDoom? That's the "fastest" sourceport right?

GzDoom is excellent  for modding and easy to use however it is very slow in comparison to prboom+. GzDoom is not a very fast port in general.

[P41R47]

4 hours ago, TheUnstableNutcase said:

What about GZDoom? That's the "fastest" sourceport right?

Not at all.

GZDoom is the most advanced sourceport in regards to features, but if you want all those features working at the same time you need a really high power on your PC.

On the other side, PrBoom+ is the fastest sourceport that still has quite advanced features like those supplied by Boom line of ports.

 

Since you asked, here is a little introduction of how sourceports and mapping formats work:

 

-vanilla/chocolate (doom, doom2 format) this is the format of maps that can be played on the priginal Doom executable, and doesn't need a sourceport to be played. Since playing on the original executable needs a DOS environment, most people plays it on it sourceport counterpart, Chocolate Doom, a sourceport designed to replicate exactly the same behaviour of the original executable. Thus is like the original executable but on modern OS.

The original executable has a lot of limitations, like monsters counts, number of visible planes on screen, sight distance and so. If one of those limit is surpased, you won't be able to play the map properly on vanilla or chocolate, thus needing a limit-removing source port.

 

-Limit-removing (doom, doom2 format) this is the same as vanilla format, there are no additional features, save that the original limit of at the time of mapping aren't there anymore. For that reason, you can make really detailed mapsets and also use a high quantity of monsters on it.
Crispy Doom and the New Doom Unity Port are both limit removing source ports.

 

-Boom/MBF (boom format) Boom was a sourceport that appeared around year 200X. It was revolutionary because it was limit removing, but also added a lot of new features like transparency, colored lighting, fake room over room through silent teleporters and many more. For that reason, Boom format is pretty much the format of choice of veteran mappers as it offer great flexibility with added features, but without straying too far from the original game.

The old Boom source port was succeded by MBF (Marine Best Friend) that fixed some of the bugs on the original Boom, and added more features.

PrBoom+, Doom Retro and Woof! are Boom/MBF source ports.

 

-Zdoom (hexen format, UDMF (Universal Doom Mapping Format)) this maps format can use all the features the zdoom base port offers: 3D bridges, slopes, custom light sources and many more. They are great for modding and going wild with your imagination, but there are not much source port that are compatible with this formats. Also the great modability of zdoom base port let you create gameplay mods that alter the game significantly, like Brütal Doom, Complex Doom, or even Smooth Doom that isn't intrusive at all, but greatly uses the DECORATE scripting function of zdoom base ports. For that reason, most gameplay mods are only compatible with zdoom base ports as they use a scripting language designed for it.

Aside from ZDoom, LZDoom, GZDoom, there are some other soruce ports like v8vavoom and Eternity Engine can read the UDMF format of mapping, but that doesn't mean that mapset or gameplay mods designed for GZDoom will work on them.

 

Now the simple rule of compatibility is the following:

MOST COMPATIBLE--------------------------------------------------------------------------LESS COMPATIBLE

Vanilla

                            Limit Removing

                                                                          BOOM/MBF

                                                                                                                            zdoom base port.

 

Vanilla format is the most compatible of all the formats and can be played on every source port.

Limit removing is also compatible with most source ports, except with the original executable and a strict vanilla source port like Chocolate Doom.

Boom/MBF can only be played on Boom/MBF compatible source ports and others more advance like GZDoom, v8vavoom and Eternity Engine.

Zdoom base mods are only compatible with gzdoom and it code base of sourceports.

 

Now if you go back to all the mapsets recommended to you, you will find that there are almost no GZDoom exlusive mapset, why? because that will restrict the players to use GZDoom, and not all the players out there want to play on zdoom base ports. the motives are different for everyone, but mostly its because GZDoom its not an acurrate emulation of the original game. Its just look really similar to it.

For that reason, there are different mapping formats as people like to experiment with different things. Vanilla for example, seems really restrictive, but amazing maps like those in Alien Vendetta are vanilla compatible. Sometimes limitations take the best out of your creativity.

 

This explanation is to give you understanding of how things work behind the curtain, and will help you if someday you want to delve into mapping.

You don't need multiple source port to play, but if one day you decide to make maps, its better have a source port where appropiately test it, as for example, you could make a vanilla map that works great on GZDoom, but when you test it on chocolate doom, it doesn't even start.

thats because every source port accomodates to the mapping format idiosincracy.
As vanilla is the most restrictive one, it source port doesn't let you play on it with errors on the map, while GZDoom just oversight those errors, but not necesarelly will work completely right as intended.

Thats the reason that a megawad author specified the format use when making the map, to let the player know on what sourceport that map will play properly without problems. 

 

In short, GZDoom plays all, but GZDoom is not good to test all.

If something not designed for GZDoom don't work properly, its not the author problem, as it work alright for the source port it was designed.

[NaturalTvventy]

Objectively the answer is end1.wad.

Edited March 29, 2021 by NaturalTvventy

[Devalaous]

3 hours ago, NaturalTvventy said:

^{Objectively the answer is end1.wad.}

 

Remaster with END2 and END3 when?

[Phobus]

@TheUnstableNutcase Of those megaWADs you've listed a few posts up, I reckon Doom II: 25 Years on Earth will comfortably be the easiest, although it ramps up quicker than Scythe, which has a pretty hard final third.

 

 

To answer the thread title, in terms of sheer polish and cohesion, you'd struggle to top BtSX, although E1 in particular may be a bit too cohesive, coming across as "samey", particularly in the middle. For me, personally, the correct answer to the question is ZDCMP#2, which is one huge map that does a huge amount of stuff very well.

[Korozive]

Good Morning Phobos and Epic 2. Both these wads I beat on HMP and immediately when in again on UV.

[Marisa the Magician]

Since people are fond of joking around in the thread, I'll add that Doom Slayer Chronicles is the most beautiful and technologically advanced mappack for Doom2 singleplayer.

 

In regards to serious answers, I'd say Eviternity has taken the crown for me, it's a very solid megawad. I've been absolutely awestruck by it ever since it came out.

[SilverMiner]

MM2 and Akeldama, can't choose between these

[Jiggahertz]

17 hours ago, P41R47 said:

Not at all.

GZDoom is the most advanced sourceport in regards to features, but if you want all those features working at the same time you need a really high power on your PC.

On the other side, PrBoom+ is the fastest sourceport that still has quite advanced features like those supplied by Boom line of ports.

 

Since you asked, here is a little introduction of how sourceports and mapping formats work:

 

-vanilla/chocolate (doom, doom2 format) this is the format of maps that can be played on the priginal Doom executable, and doesn't need a sourceport to be played. Since playing on the original executable needs a DOS environment, most people plays it on it sourceport counterpart, Chocolate Doom, a sourceport designed to replicate exactly the same behaviour of the original executable. Thus is like the original executable but on modern OS.

The original executable has a lot of limitations, like monsters counts, number of visible planes on screen, sight distance and so. If one of those limit is surpased, you won't be able to play the map properly on vanilla or chocolate, thus needing a limit-removing source port.

 

-Limit-removing (doom, doom2 format) this is the same as vanilla format, there are no additional features, save that the original limit of at the time of mapping aren't there anymore. For that reason, you can make really detailed mapsets and also use a high quantity of monsters on it.
Crispy Doom and the New Doom Unity Port are both limit removing source ports.

 

-Boom/MBF (boom format) Boom was a sourceport that appeared around year 200X. It was revolutionary because it was limit removing, but also added a lot of new features like transparency, colored lighting, fake room over room through silent teleporters and many more. For that reason, Boom format is pretty much the format of choice of veteran mappers as it offer great flexibility with added features, but without straying too far from the original game.

The old Boom source port was succeded by MBF (Marine Best Friend) that fixed some of the bugs on the original Boom, and added more features.

PrBoom+, Doom Retro and Woof! are Boom/MBF source ports.

 

-Zdoom (hexen format, UDMF (Universal Doom Mapping Format)) this maps format can use all the features the zdoom base port offers: 3D bridges, slopes, custom light sources and many more. They are great for modding and going wild with your imagination, but there are not much source port that are compatible with this formats. Also the great modability of zdoom base port let you create gameplay mods that alter the game significantly, like Brütal Doom, Complex Doom, or even Smooth Doom that isn't intrusive at all, but greatly uses the DECORATE scripting function of zdoom base ports. For that reason, most gameplay mods are only compatible with zdoom base ports as they use a scripting language designed for it.

Aside from ZDoom, LZDoom, GZDoom, there are some other soruce ports like v8vavoom and Eternity Engine can read the UDMF format of mapping, but that doesn't mean that mapset or gameplay mods designed for GZDoom will work on them.

 

Now the simple rule of compatibility is the following:

MOST COMPATIBLE--------------------------------------------------------------------------LESS COMPATIBLE

Vanilla

                            Limit Removing

                                                                          BOOM/MBF

                                                                                                                            zdoom base port.

 

Vanilla format is the most compatible of all the formats and can be played on every source port.

Limit removing is also compatible with most source ports, except with the original executable and a strict vanilla source port like Chocolate Doom.

Boom/MBF can only be played on Boom/MBF compatible source ports and others more advance like GZDoom, v8vavoom and Eternity Engine.

Zdoom base mods are only compatible with gzdoom and it code base of sourceports.

 

Now if you go back to all the mapsets recommended to you, you will find that there are almost no GZDoom exlusive mapset, why? because that will restrict the players to use GZDoom, and not all the players out there want to play on zdoom base ports. the motives are different for everyone, but mostly its because GZDoom its not an acurrate emulation of the original game. Its just look really similar to it.

For that reason, there are different mapping formats as people like to experiment with different things. Vanilla for example, seems really restrictive, but amazing maps like those in Alien Vendetta are vanilla compatible. Sometimes limitations take the best out of your creativity.

 

This explanation is to give you understanding of how things work behind the curtain, and will help you if someday you want to delve into mapping.

You don't need multiple source port to play, but if one day you decide to make maps, its better have a source port where appropiately test it, as for example, you could make a vanilla map that works great on GZDoom, but when you test it on chocolate doom, it doesn't even start.

thats because every source port accomodates to the mapping format idiosincracy.
As vanilla is the most restrictive one, it source port doesn't let you play on it with errors on the map, while GZDoom just oversight those errors, but not necesarelly will work completely right as intended.

Thats the reason that a megawad author specified the format use when making the map, to let the player know on what sourceport that map will play properly without problems. 

 

In short, GZDoom plays all, but GZDoom is not good to test all.

If something not designed for GZDoom don't work properly, its not the author problem, as it work alright for the source port it was designed.

Really informative, thx