Jump to content
Search In
  • More options...
Find results that contain...
Find results in...
northivanastan

[Released] Ultimate MIDI Pack - A community music replacement for the original Doom

Recommended Posts

5 hours ago, Devalaous said:

 

Awesome, now I can play UDTWID at long last. A replay of regular DTWID will follow after the full pack is done.

Since there are 7 (non duplicate) tracks, including e3m4, that are yet to be finished, I assume you'll just be loading uldupmid.wad for a duplicate replacing pack? Or, rather, using that as your starting point for appropriate modifications?

Share this post


Link to post
On 5/23/2021 at 7:36 AM, Peter said:

My track with @Cammy is up on YouTube with an old demo I recorded of E4M6 NM100S. 

 

 

epic. this sinister opening with the bells, then getting more energetic, the tale of a struggle.

Share this post


Link to post

Got another update for you all with two new MIDIs: @TrialD's new MIDI for E2M7, and an E3M1 MIDI from the very promising newcomer @Palitoman! (I've also received a "finished" track for E2M6, but I've decided to hold off on releasing it for now, since I'm waiting for a title.) The last few days have been weird IRL for me, so I may have forgotten something - please let me know!

 

Enjoy: ultimidi-0.2.1.zip

Share this post


Link to post

Another update incoming: added @Xulgonoth's excellent submission for E2M6, which is still currently untitled. Hard to believe there are only four MIDIs left to go!

 

Enjoy and please give feedback: ultimidi-0.2.2.zip

 

Edit: Realized I had accidentally uploaded it twice!

Edited by northivanastan

Share this post


Link to post

Same to what I've done earlier for .MID the way iD did, I've done a real OPL3 recording of everything as of ultimidi-0.2.2 after converting everything to MUS and playing through MUSPLAY with the GENMIDI lump from Doom 1. Everything converted without issues and there doesn't appear to be any tempo issues from what I hear! FLAC and 0.4q OGG goodies are available here:

 

https://www.mediafire.com/folder/oboqfilwkemc1/Ultimate_MIDI_Pack

 

Couple thoughts though:

  • E4M2 is too loud and hits the peak recording levels compared to everything else, this should be reduced by ~10-15% volume
  • Regarding @leejacksonaudio's request for feedback on Vitamin B6, my biggest gripe with it is that it's very unpleasant to listen to with Doom's OPL instrument bank due to the MIDI-to-MUS conversion never letting the tremolo strings release properly, so they're sustained until a note change. Confirmed this with both MUSPLAY and also renaming D_E4M4 to D_E1M1 in ultimidi-0.2.2.wad and testing with vanilla Ultimate Doom EXE, as vanilla EXE does an internal MIDI-to-MUS conversion
  • Speaking of Doom 1's OPL instrument bank, I personally think there's a lot of instances where distortion guitar should be used instead of overdriven guitar which would improve the songs dramatically when playing back with the OPL bank. I haven't tried DMXOPL yet, but being a MIDI pack that's targeting an IWAD it should try to sound good with the GENMIDI that's in the IWAD

Share this post


Link to post
24 minutes ago, deathz0r said:

Same to what I've done earlier for .MID the way iD did, I've done a real OPL3 recording of everything as of ultimidi-0.2.2 after converting everything to MUS and playing through MUSPLAY with the GENMIDI lump from Doom 1. Everything converted without issues and there doesn't appear to be any tempo issues from what I hear! FLAC and 0.4q OGG goodies are available here:

 

https://www.mediafire.com/folder/oboqfilwkemc1/Ultimate_MIDI_Pack

 

Couple thoughts though:

  • E4M2 is too loud and hits the peak recording levels compared to everything else, this should be reduced by ~10-15% volume
  • Regarding @leejacksonaudio's request for feedback on Vitamin B6, my biggest gripe with it is that it's very unpleasant to listen to with Doom's OPL instrument bank due to the MIDI-to-MUS conversion never letting the tremolo strings release properly, so they're sustained until a note change. Confirmed this with both MUSPLAY and also renaming D_E4M4 to D_E1M1 in ultimidi-0.2.2.wad and testing with vanilla Ultimate Doom EXE, as vanilla EXE does an internal MIDI-to-MUS conversion
  • Speaking of Doom 1's OPL instrument bank, I personally think there's a lot of instances where distortion guitar should be used instead of overdriven guitar which would improve the songs dramatically when playing back with the OPL bank. I haven't tried DMXOPL yet, but being a MIDI pack that's targeting an IWAD it should try to sound good with the GENMIDI that's in the IWAD

Thanks, I'll give a listen and pass along your feedback. Glad to hear that the MUS conversion didn't cause issues! I wasn't aware that the vanilla EXE did an internal MID->MUS convert, but that might inform my future work. OPL is something I didn't really test with, so I had no idea of how things would sound; mainly I tested with a Roland SC-55 soundfont, and based my feedback on what sounded good there.

 

Do you plan to record the last four MIDIs once the project is done?

Share this post


Link to post
18 minutes ago, northivanastan said:

Thanks, I'll give a listen and pass along your feedback. Glad to hear that the MUS conversion didn't cause issues! I wasn't aware that the vanilla EXE did an internal MID->MUS convert, but that might inform my future work. OPL is something I didn't really test with, so I had no idea of how things would sound; mainly I tested with a Roland SC-55 soundfont, and based my feedback on what sounded good there.

 

Do you plan to record the last four MIDIs once the project is done?

Of course! I feel making the recordings now would help improve the existing songs to choose instruments (and maybe throw in a few extra notes/effects that would get around MUS' shortcomings) that are better suited for Doom 1's instrument bank before the final version of the MIDI pack is released.

 

It's easy enough to test with the GOG copy of Ultimate Doom and either using dosbox or dosbox-staging (with the Nukey OPL core) to listen to how they would sound in vanilla and what sound cards back in the day would have outputted. Alternative OPL-compatible FM chips generally came about in the late 90s and I can do some quick recordings (without cutting up the single recording session into per-track files) of those that I have on me if you want, but at the time of both Doom 1 and Ultimate Doom release there was only Yamaha OPL chips.

Share this post


Link to post

Very nice to see real OPL3 recordings of the tracks submitted so far.

 

However, there are some things I would like to point out:

 

I haven't balanced my MIDIs for OPL at all as it would have been too limiting for the kind of MIDIs I made (up to 16 channels used in a single MIDI and over 32 voices sounding at once). Also, I'm pretty sure my MIDIs break the polyphony limit of every OPL card. Keep in mind the OPL2 only has 9 channels and the OPL3 (when only 2-op instruments are used) has 18. Polyphony issues are particularly noticeable in the E3M6 MIDI at 2:00 where some of the percussion sounds keep cutting out. Notes being cut short is also noticeable at 2:15. And at 1:41 in the E1M8 MIDI, the lead harp melody is all messed up.

 

Additionally, several of the pitch bends in the Intermission and E3M8 MIDIs are messed up, although this is an issue with MUS conversion.

 

1 hour ago, deathz0r said:

I personally think there's a lot of instances where distortion guitar should be used instead of overdriven guitar which would improve the songs dramatically when playing back with the OPL bank

I don't know if that applies to my MIDIs, but my electric guitar patch choices were based on how they sound with the Roland Sound Canvas, so I would prefer to leave them as they are.

 

 

I think the most difficult part of optimizing everyone's MIDIs for OPL3 would be getting the MIDIs' maximum note polyphony down to 18. That would require removing a lot of notes in the MIDIs, and I don't think many of the composers would be willing to do that.

Edited by TheUltimateDoomer666

Share this post


Link to post
1 hour ago, deathz0r said:

Regarding @leejacksonaudio's request for feedback on Vitamin B6, my biggest gripe with it is that it's very unpleasant to listen to with Doom's OPL instrument bank due to the MIDI-to-MUS conversion never letting the tremolo strings release properly, so they're sustained until a note change. Confirmed this with both MUSPLAY and also renaming D_E4M4 to D_E1M1 in ultimidi-0.2.2.wad and testing with vanilla Ultimate Doom EXE, as vanilla EXE does an internal MIDI-to-MUS conversion

I don't know what to do about this. The upper strings don't release, period. They're like an inverse pedal tone throughout the entire composition. And, like @TheUltimateDoomer666, I haven't balanced my MIDIs for OPL at all - only for Microsoft's GS Wavetable Synth.

 

@northivanastan, what do you suggest? I don't even have a way of testing this.

Share this post


Link to post

I think I'll have to concur with @TheUltimateDoomer666 - for all contributors, do listen to these exports and see if there is anything you can change to make your tracks sound better, but when interests conflict, do not prioritize OPL over Roland Sound Canvas/Microsoft GS Wavetable. I still recommend balancing your MIDIs for the closest approximation of Roland Sound Canvas you can get, and make OPL playback a secondary priority.

 

@leejacksonaudio I haven't gotten around to listening to the E4M3 export, when I do I may have better feedback, but as above. I think I like the tremolo strings acting as a drone throughout the track, so I don't think I want that to change. If changing things to make OPL sound better would make GS Wavetable sound worse, you should not make those changes.

Share this post


Link to post

In my opinion I think everyone should leave their MIDIs as is; balanced for Roland Sound Canvas-based synths like MSGSWS. After all, that was the goal from the beginning of the project.

 

I do like the sound of AdLib/OPL; I have made a number of OPL tracks myself for non-DOOM projects. But editing MIDIs that weren't composed with OPL in mind so that they play correctly with OPL synths (in this case OPL3) would result in losing too much of the composers' work.

 

Still, hearing the MIDIs in OPL3 is an interesting novelty.

 

And lastly, what can be done about the MUS conversion issues? The DOOM Wiki just says that MIDI2MUS does not create perfect conversions, which of course results in distorted tracks.

Share this post


Link to post

I don't think it's too far-fetched of an idea to have a separate version that is optimised for OPL playback, whether that is of interest for any composers - there are plenty of examples of game soundtracks that have both GM/MT-32 and AdLib versions of soundtracks.

 

As for testing OPL playback, here's my recommendation:

  1. Download dosbox-staging and set up dosbox.conf for Nukey OPL
  2. Download MIDI2MUS, MUSplay and the GENMIDI for Doom 1 and throw them into a folder with the MIDI for conversion (keep filenames to 8.3 length)
  3. Play back and tweak as required

Share this post


Link to post
Just now, TheUltimateDoomer666 said:

And lastly, what can be done about the MUS conversion issues? The DOOM Wiki just says that MIDI2MUS does not create perfect conversions, which of course results in distorted tracks.

Same general idea applies I think - you may remove unnecessary notes or settings to correct issues with MUS conversion if you like. But if that makes your track sound worse in the general Sound Canvas-based synths, don't do it.

Share this post


Link to post
3 minutes ago, deathz0r said:

I don't think it's too far-fetched of an idea to have a separate version that is optimised for OPL playback, whether that is of interest for any composers - there are plenty of examples of game soundtracks that have both GM/MT-32 and AdLib versions of soundtracks.

I think I'll keep the scope of this project as is, don't want to extend the scope too significantly. Things like an OPL-optimized version, copyright-safe replacements for remixes, etc would be interesting, but that can be saved for later, and within the CC-BY-SA terms anyone is free to make it themselves.

Share this post


Link to post

Also, note this line from the MUS article: "The MUS format can only use the first 9 MIDI channels, using the first 8 for music instruments and the 9th for drums."

 

Here is the channel setup for my E3M6 MIDI:

 

Spoiler

1496418243_e3m6channels.png.2081ee079be1ffba555abbafdd889fa4.png

 

All 16 MIDI channels are used, which may also explain why some of the MUS conversions end up distorted (like the harp going all weird in E1M8).

Share this post


Link to post

@leejacksonaudio listening to the OPL export for E4M4 I don't think you need to change anything. For me the string drone is at worst mildly annoying, not bad enough to justify a change.

Edited by northivanastan

Share this post


Link to post

@deathz0r It's so cool to hear these songs with OPL hardware! Would it be possible to create a zip file on MediaFire so we can download everything at once?

 

As far as remixing, I've already spent so much time balancing levels between different synths and soundfonts that I'm not at all interested in catering to any more playback methods, but I wouldn't mind if someone else does it should they find the time.

Share this post


Link to post

Hi guys. Just wanna wish you all good luck with the MIDI's for this project. 

 

Weirdly enough, I never listen to the MIDI's while playing Doom, (I love the silence to listen for demon growls,) but I will sit and listen to them just as music, on their own, while doing other things.

 

Now here is the thing. This is probably the wrong thread to ask this, but I will anyway. I know a lot about music (raised on classical piano, played in bands for years, play guitar and bass, and been a commercial songwriter,) but I know nothing about writing MIDI's for a game like Doom. So what do you guys use to write MIDI's ? 

 

I use musescore to write classical piano MIDI's, but wat would I use to get the sounds to emulate those classic Doom sounds? How do you guys do that? Appreciate any replies in that regard.

 

Love what you guys are doing, and wish you lots of luck with this project. Reading though it now, nothivanastan, you sound super organised and have good ideas for bringing a project to completion. The milestones, limiting how many tracks can be claimed by someone before submitting anything, etc etc, these and other ideas are good ways to maintain momentum and keep things fair. Cheers.

 

props for having Lee Jackson involved too. Been a huge fan of his for years.

Share this post


Link to post

@bLOCKbOYgAMES i use Ableton Live as the sequencer and for the "doom sounds" i use Virtualmidisynth as an external instrument with a sc-55 soundfont.

Share this post


Link to post
48 minutes ago, bLOCKbOYgAMES said:

I use musescore to write classical piano MIDI's, but wat would I use to get the sounds to emulate those classic Doom sounds? How do you guys do that? Appreciate any replies in that regard.

I use MuseScore for full MIDIs, and Keagan Dunn (who made E2M4's new MIDI) does that too, but the program is very much not designed for that.

 

If you want to try though, here are some things you might need to know: When creating a new score you select "Choose Instruments" instead of "Grand Staff" or any of the other options, pick some instruments you want (you can go back to Edit->Instruments too). There's a drop-down menu where you can show "All Instruments" instead of just the common acoustic ones. Then you also need to be aware of the Mixer panel (View -> Mixer) where you can adjust volume and panning and set alternate MIDI instruments. In MuseScore 3, you can also set MIDI ports and channels, and you want to make absolutely sure that you are only using Port 1.

 

If you want help, you may DM me.

48 minutes ago, bLOCKbOYgAMES said:

Love what you guys are doing, and wish you lots of luck with this project. Reading though it now, nothivanastan, you sound super organised and have good ideas for bringing a project to completion. The milestones, limiting how many tracks can be claimed by someone before submitting anything, etc etc, these and other ideas are good ways to maintain momentum and keep things fair. Cheers.

Aw, thanks! I'm new to leading community projects so I feel like I was throwing a bunch of ideas together. They seem to have worked, though. Mostly.

Share this post


Link to post
53 minutes ago, TheUltimateDoomer666 said:

@bLOCKbOYgAMES You just use a MIDI sequencer that supports the General MIDI standard. I use Cakewalk Pro Audio 9.03. A more modern sequencer is Sekaiju.

 

I will look at those. Thank you for the suggestion. I have never used either.

 

32 minutes ago, Sego said:

@bLOCKbOYgAMES i use Ableton Live as the sequencer and for the "doom sounds" i use Virtualmidisynth as an external instrument with a sc-55 soundfont.

 

Ableton is amazing. I did a degree in Audio Production, and while ProTools was the main focus, we did use Ableton for a few projects. Sadly I only had the full version for a 3 month trial, and I probably cant justify the AU$1000 price tag purely for the idea of possibly writing Doom MIDI's. Ableton is amazing though, for the few projects I used it on. Thanks for the reply. Appreciated.

 

23 minutes ago, northivanastan said:

I use MuseScore for full MIDIs, and Keagan Dunn (who made E2M4's new MIDI) does that too, but the program is very much not designed for that.

 

If you want to try though, here are some things you might need to know: When creating a new score you select "Choose Instruments" instead of "Grand Staff" or any of the other options, pick some instruments you want (you can go back to Edit->Instruments too). There's a drop-down menu where you can show "All Instruments" instead of just the common acoustic ones. Then you also need to be aware of the Mixer panel (View -> Mixer) where you can adjust volume and panning and set alternate MIDI instruments. In MuseScore 3, you can also set MIDI ports and channels, and you want to make absolutely sure that you are only using Port 1.

 

If you want help, you may DM me.

Aw, thanks! I'm new to leading community projects so I feel like I was throwing a bunch of ideas together. They seem to have worked, though. Mostly.

 

Thank you for the information! And for the offer of help. Much appreciated. I will play around over the next few weeks and see how I go. Looking forward to this project too. Regards

 

-Steve

Share this post


Link to post
8 hours ago, bLOCKbOYgAMES said:

So what do you guys use to write MIDI's ?  

 

I use Sekaiju. Purely midi making and free. Can grab it right now.

Share this post


Link to post
5 hours ago, leejacksonaudio said:

@bLOCKbOYgAMES I use Cakewalk by Bandlab as my sequencer. It's powerful, it's supported, and best of all, it's free.

 

Thanks for the compliment, BTW! I do appreciate it.

 

Thanks so much @leejacksonaudio Appreciate the suggestion. Just fyi, my favorite track of yours is "You Suck" from the ROTT soundtrack. It has this epic weight to it, and reminds me of a couple of the tracks from tnt:Evilution. 

3 minutes ago, NeilJohnRips said:

 

I use Sekaiju. Purely midi making and free. Can grab it right now.

 

And thank you @NeilJohnRips for the suggestion also. Will definitely play with this one also.

Share this post


Link to post

I use Aria Maestosa. It's a somewhat obscure MIDI software for Windows and Linux, but it's easy to use with an intuitive (if sometimes slightly clumsy) interface, a simple piano roll editor for instrument channels (with a variant for percussion), a standard notation visualizer that I never used, and support for many MIDI effects, including continuous ones like pitch and volume shifts, and more.

 

It is free software. No, not freeware – free software. Although, it is completely free of charge to use, too. Maybe y'all should try it out someday!

 

———

Side hint: "filter sweeps" are shifts in the MIDI controller Brightness. For instance, in Aria Maestosa, it should be in the dropdown when you click the MIDI controller name area (which drops down under the channel itself when you click the MIDI controller button thingy in the channel bar). Drag a line from the top to the bottom to "sweep down", and vice-versa to "sweep up"! Wikipedia corroborates this:

quQcsGX.png

(Of note is that those are part of the Level 2 GM standard, which was made official in 1999. It was used by MIDI songs before, including some tracks in the Descent II OST – the MIDI one, that is –, so maybe it was already conventional beforehand? Supported by some vendor, perhaps? Eh, still.)

 

You're welcome :D

Share this post


Link to post
1 hour ago, Gustavo6046 said:

I use Aria Maestosa. It's a somewhat obscure MIDI software for Windows and Linux, but it's easy to use with an intuitive (if sometimes slightly clumsy) interface, a simple piano roll editor for instrument channels (with a variant for percussion), a standard notation visualizer that I never used, and support for many MIDI effects, including continuous ones like pitch and volume shifts, and more.

 

I used Aria Maestosa until recently. I already had some issues with it when I was making my submission for .MID the way id did when it turned out that you can't change the length of notes on the drum channel,so most of the sound effects I was tryibg to use just didn't work at all until I edited the midi in Sekaiju.

But what made me switch to Sekaiju completely (and make my entry for this project in it) was that I couldn't figure out how to view multiple tracks at the same time. I still don't know if Aria even has that feature, but it was a pain to work without it.

Still, while it's clumsy, it's a really good sequencer for midi beginners. I can't deny that I learnt quite a lot from just experimenting with it.

Share this post


Link to post
20 hours ago, bLOCKbOYgAMES said:

So what do you guys use to write MIDI's ? 

 

I'm a classically trained musician that actually uses Finale, big orchestral scores and stuff like so:
 

Spoiler

pmtemp.png


I used some Fruityloops 10 years ago but started with Sekaiju last year to write my first true MIDIs for Doom. It's been rough but I have to say that with a little help and after finishing my first two pieces for MTWID, I can now focus almost entirely on artistic stuff instead of trying to figure out how things work.

 

One rough thing with Sekaiju is the almost nonexistence of online tutorial videos, barring a few beginner's guide blog posts and a handful of videos to get you started. If I continue using this program and get to know it a lot better, I'll try to make some tutorials together with some other MIDI composers to put out there for beginners.

Share this post


Link to post
12 minutes ago, Peccatum Mihzamiz said:

 

I'm a classically trained musician that actually uses Finale, big orchestral scores and stuff like so:
 

  Hide contents

pmtemp.png


I used some Fruityloops 10 years ago but started with Sekaiju last year to write my first true MIDIs for Doom. It's been rough but I have to say that with a little help and after finishing my first two pieces for MTWID, I can now focus almost entirely on artistic stuff instead of trying to figure out how things work.

 

One rough thing with Sekaiju is the almost nonexistence of online tutorial videos, barring a few beginner's guide blog posts and a handful of videos to get you started. If I continue using this program and get to know it a lot better, I'll try to make some tutorials together with some other MIDI composers to put out there for beginners.

 

Thank you for sharing. That is an impressive looking score. Do you have anywhere to listen to anything? Bandcamp, Soundcloud, youtube? I admit to being curious.

 

[edit] Sorry Gustavo6046. Just saw your post too. Acknowledging that I saw it and will look into it. I like simple. Simple is my friend. :) [/edit]

 

Also apologies to all on this thread. I don't mean for my requests for technical assistance to in any way derail the purpose of this thread, which is, of course, completing the Ultimate Doom MIDI pack. It's just that it seemed like a good place to ask, what with all the musical talent hereabouts. Appreciate all the replies. Looking forward to its completion. Regards to everyone involved!!

Share this post


Link to post

Create an account or sign in to comment

You need to be a member in order to leave a comment

Create an account

Sign up for a new account in our community. It's easy!

Register a new account

Sign in

Already have an account? Sign in here.

Sign In Now
×