Am i the only one who doesn't like the direction the series is going?

[Doomdude89]

7 minutes ago, Tycitron said:

Simple: Gameplay reasons, theres no proof in lore in the classic games only that he ACTUALLY moves that fast, or resists those falls, if that what true, then Doomguy also cant jump or look up or down at all. For all reasons the OG doomguy/Doom3Guy are normal space marines taking on the forces of hell because hes forced to.

I never played Doom because of the lore. I played it because no other game at that time let you go full Rambo while having the mobility of an fighter jet. If people truly cared so much about the lore of Doom then Doom3 would have been an huge success, which it wasnt. Gameplay>Story, you can only watch an movie several times before you simply get bored but good gameplay will give you endless times of replayability. Thats why Half Life 1 is also regarded so highly it does not push its story into your face but rather manages to tell its tale while you are playing it. I would put it like this for me the original Doom is like football. That you can play over and over.

[Zulk RS]

I haven't played Doom 2016 and Doom Eternal so I my understanding of the games' lore is from what I absorbed through surfing the web and from random channels talking about NuDoom.

 

Regardless of what the lore actually is, I feel like they have created the public perception of Doom Slayer/Doom Guy being this Raging, super man with monstrous strength and no mercy for hellspawn, ripping them apart with his bear hands. Also someone who can tank a lot of punishment. I kinda resent this new look for the sole reason that it has made searching for guides to make Doom Guy in DnD 5E difficult. There are plenty of guides on how to play as Doom Guy in DnD 5E but all of the ones that I've seen all base things off the Doom Slayer and thus have a higher focus on things like Barbarian because of rage and Paladin because of fighting hell with the character being decked out in heavy armor or medium armor and slashing across the place with a great sword. I want to play as the fast moving, hyper mobile gunman that was Classic Doomguy not the raging, riping and tearing murder machine that is Doom Slayer. ((And yes I have tried to make that build myself but had little success. I got it just right with a Level 40 character but that's not really something you can play. At level 20, I came up with a Rogue 9/Fighter 11 build but that's also too jank to play in normal game))

[LANEGRACABRA]

Bring back real Doomguy and leave this Super Doom Bro in his coffin for good...

[DoomGater]

NuDoom is the spoiled younger brother that no one can stand. His toys are shinier, his computer is faster and maybe even his girlfriend is cuter, but he himself is a stupid twit.
Go play in traffic, bro!

[NoXion]

5 hours ago, Zulk RS said:

I haven't played Doom 2016 and Doom Eternal so I my understanding of the games' lore is from what I absorbed through surfing the web and from random channels talking about NuDoom.

 

Regardless of what the lore actually is, I feel like they have created the public perception of Doom Slayer/Doom Guy being this Raging, super man with monstrous strength and no mercy for hellspawn, ripping them apart with his bear hands. Also someone who can tank a lot of punishment.

Which is funny, because in the NuDoom games, the Slayer is actually kind of a glass cannon. He can dish out a lot of pain, but try just standing still and seeing how quickly he dies when all the demons can get a clear shot at him. I think the Classic Doomguy is actually the tankier character because he can build up a thicker skin of health and armour.

 

5 hours ago, Zulk RS said:

I kinda resent this new look for the sole reason that it has made searching for guides to make Doom Guy in DnD 5E difficult. There are plenty of guides on how to play as Doom Guy in DnD 5E but all of the ones that I've seen all base things off the Doom Slayer and thus have a higher focus on things like Barbarian because of rage and Paladin because of fighting hell with the character being decked out in heavy armor or medium armor and slashing across the place with a great sword. I want to play as the fast moving, hyper mobile gunman that was Classic Doomguy not the raging, riping and tearing murder machine that is Doom Slayer. ((And yes I have tried to make that build myself but had little success. I got it just right with a Level 40 character but that's not really something you can play. At level 20, I came up with a Rogue 9/Fighter 11 build but that's also too jank to play in normal game))

 

Trying to create a space marine character skilled with a blend of modern and futuristic weapons (i.e. Classic Doomguy) seems like a losing proposition when trying to do it in a fantasy-based gaming system. Classic Doomguy clearly knows how to use an assault rifle, but does DnD e5 even have any that he could use?

[Zulk RS]

1 hour ago, NoXion said:

Which is funny, because in the NuDoom games, the Slayer is actually kind of a glass cannon. He can dish out a lot of pain, but try just standing still and seeing how quickly he dies when all the demons can get a clear shot at him. I think the Classic Doomguy is actually the tankier character because he can build up a thicker skin of health and armour.

 

 

I mean I got the feeling that you die easier in NuDoom from watching all the gameplay videos. I was more talking about the general public image rather than the mechanics of that game and the actual lore in it. Kind of like how Elder Scrolls have a ton of lore but vast majority of players know very little about it(I only played Morrowind and I don't know much about the lore of that world so I am included in that list of knowing very little of it.) And about Classic Doomguy being tankier, I'll take your word for it since I don't have any experience playing NuDoom.

 

1 hour ago, NoXion said:

Trying to create a space marine character skilled with a blend of modern and futuristic weapons (i.e. Classic Doomguy) seems like a losing proposition when trying to do it in a fantasy-based gaming system. Classic Doomguy clearly knows how to use an assault rifle, but does DnD e5 even have any that he could use?

 

Actually, 5E has an assault rifle and laser rifles but they are stupidly broken and no DM uses them ever. With creating Classic Doomguy in DnD, the approach I took was focusing on more of his abilities rather than his arsenal. Like he can clearly use a wide range of weapons and armor so, take a class that has proficiency in a lot of weapons and armor such as Fighter (Proficiency with every kind of weapon and armor in the game except for guns). I tried to create a character that can use a wide range of weapons and magic items, can move super fast, uses descent armor, can dodge a lot of shit, can move super fast, can mow down hoards of lesser enemies and hold his own against stronger enemies (Classic Doomguy can easily kill hundreds of imps without issue as long as he has ammo), primarily focuses on ranged weapons (melee in classic doom is not great compared to the ranged options) etc. I have had very little success as I failed to come up with any build that encompasses all aspects of Classic Doomguy (Except for the level 40 character)

[Kute]

Man, guys. You can't please everyone. They hit the new Doom games out of the park. You should be happy that your beloved series is back and one of the most respected franchises in the industry. I saw someone in this thread saying they should have continued on from Doom 3 - that game is the one failure of the franchise.

 

You can't make 90's Doom today. 90's Doom does a perfect job of being 90's Doom.

[Kute]

6 hours ago, Zulk RS said:

I haven't played Doom 2016 and Doom Eternal so I my understanding of the games' lore is from what I absorbed through surfing the web and from random channels talking about NuDoom.

 

Regardless of what the lore actually is, I feel like they have created the public perception of Doom Slayer/Doom Guy being this Raging, super man with monstrous strength and no mercy for hellspawn, ripping them apart with his bear hands. Also someone who can tank a lot of punishment. I kinda resent this new look for the sole reason that it has made searching for guides to make Doom Guy in DnD 5E difficult. There are plenty of guides on how to play as Doom Guy in DnD 5E but all of the ones that I've seen all base things off the Doom Slayer and thus have a higher focus on things like Barbarian because of rage and Paladin because of fighting hell with the character being decked out in heavy armor or medium armor and slashing across the place with a great sword. I want to play as the fast moving, hyper mobile gunman that was Classic Doomguy not the raging, riping and tearing murder machine that is Doom Slayer. ((And yes I have tried to make that build myself but had little success. I got it just right with a Level 40 character but that's not really something you can play. At level 20, I came up with a Rogue 9/Fighter 11 build but that's also too jank to play in normal game))

 

No offense, I'm glad you're enjoying this stuff, and I have as many geeky hobbies as the next guy, but worrying about their protagonist messing up DnD builds is like a textbook reason for why the people in this thread are the last people ID should consider while making their game.

 

They did the absolute impossible, and got me to play and enjoy a modern shooter. Even upgraded some PC components for it - which has now given me this amusing new hobby of mining ethereum.

[Maes]

Even if they remade Doom exactly as it was in the 1990s, well, people will still complain that e.g. by playing it THEY do not automatically become as young as they were in the 1990s :-)

[omx32x]

i dont understand this sentiment that this isnt doom guy

sure he got new powers but all they really made is making him stronger and make him be able to drop ammo and health from the demons (seeing how the dark lord drops health when he hits you) he is still a walking fridge that run in the speed of an air plane while holding guns that no man should ever be able to hold and he still hates demons with all his passion

[Wereknight]

On 4/1/2021 at 1:11 AM, Tycitron said:

 

 

TL;DR: Doom to me feels like its trying to be warhammer-lite instead of an Aliens/Evil dead-esque series. and i miss the former. feel free to disagree

Considering all three are the holy trinity and having Grimdark in Doom is holy to a lot of people - I don't mind it getting WH-esque vibes at all.

But what is my point of concern: DE have shown us that modern id team take a bit wrong direction in stylistics and overall mood + story telling as a whole.
They just LOST in their own ideas, which led to inconsistency within contradicting lore parts. Constant retconning of what was before is a douchey move and not that many people are like that.

I'm afraid that next entry might have to turn into result which end up in somewhat similar to Wolfenstein: Youngblood. When devs had somewhat good intentions and decent ideas yet end result was... bad.

[jazzmaster9]

1 hour ago, Kute said:

You can't make 90's Doom today. 90's Doom does a perfect job of being 90's Doom.

Exactly, there is no reason to make a 90s Styled Doom game since its Already Been done, Just like there is no Reason to make Another Doom 3. Despite the Vocal Minority making us believe that Doom Should ONLY be this one thing and not "warhammer kiddy mario lol", Doom being stagnant would be a lot worse.

 

I understand their disappointments, but do hope Id Sticks to their guns and continue adding new mechanics, changing up the gameplay and  their power Metal storytelling.  there would be no reason to play a Doom 1/2 or Doom 3 clone when those exists already

[omx32x]

3 minutes ago, jazzmaster9 said:

Exactly, there is no reason to make a 90s Styled Doom game since its Already Been done, Just like there is no Reason to make Another Doom 3. Despite the Vocal Minority making us believe that Doom Should ONLY be this one thing and not "warhammer kiddy mario lol", Doom being stagnant would be a lot worse.

 

I understand their disappointments, but do hope Id Sticks to their guns and continue adding new mechanics,, changing up the gameplay and  their power Metal storytelling.  there would be no reason to play a Doom 1/2 or Doom 3 clone when those exists already

yea change can be good too

if i want 90s doom i would be playing doom, doom2, doom64, plutonia, final doom, master levels, etc

there are many games in the series that already take this aproach i dont know why people want it back

[jamman39]

I have a foot in both camps here. I am worried about the direction the modern Doom games are headed, but I absolutely love where they currently are. 
 

I thought 2016 was a masterpiece at the time, and Eternal took a really huge step in a different direction. Eternal is so good that it’s hard to imagine playing 2016 ever again. Mechanically it’s much more complicated and deep, and the difficulty spiked to keep up with your expanded toolbox. 
 

I haven’t played the DLC yet, and to be honest I’m a bit intimidated by them. The need to keep expanding and building upon Eternal means that at some point there will be more tools than I can keep up with and the difficulty will outpace me. 
 

I can’t see the third entry in the new series taking a step back either, so I am definitely worried about where we’re headed. 

[jazzmaster9]

8 minutes ago, omalefico32x said:

yea change can be good too

if i want 90s doom i would be playing doom, doom2, doom64, plutonia, final doom, master levels, etc

there are many games in the series that already take this aproach i dont know why people want it back

I understand why, that Era of FPS gaming was great.

 

But At the same time, Developers also want to have creative freedom in what they create, and thus they would like to stray away from or atleast not rely too much on proven formulas.

 

Especially in today's Triple A mentality of just do the same thing that worked the first time, They could have easily made another Doom 1 and 2 and have it sell since its IS a proven formula, but where's the creativity and advancement in that?

 

 

[Zulk RS]

1 hour ago, Kute said:

 

No offense, I'm glad you're enjoying this stuff, and I have as many geeky hobbies as the next guy, but worrying about their protagonist messing up DnD builds is like a textbook reason for why the people in this thread are the last people ID should consider while making their game.

 

They did the absolute impossible, and got me to play and enjoy a modern shooter. Even upgraded some PC components for it - which has now given me this amusing new hobby of mining ethereum. 

 

I think you missed the point of my post. I wasn't saying the should or shouldn't have taken the direction they did. All I said was that I can't help but resent it a little because it has made getting a Doom Guy Build a pain. I didn't give any actual criticism or review of the modern take, just observations and personal experiences. 

[omx32x]

4 minutes ago, jazzmaster9 said:

I understand why, that Era of FPS gaming was great.

 

But At the same time, Developers also want to have creative freedom in what they create, and thus they would like to stray away from or atleast not rely too much on proven formulas.

 

Especially in today's Triple A mentality of just do the same thing that worked the first time, They could have easily made another Doom 1 and 2 and have it sell since its IS a proven formula, but where's the creativity and advancement in that?

 

 

yea i dislike doom 3 but i will say i liked that they took risks with it and its the same with new doom i understand why some dislike but the series needed to evolve too

[Rudolph]

My dream Doom game nowadays would be a cross between Doom 64 and Jaguar's Alien Versus Predator: technically as fast-paced and unrealistic as Classic Doom, yet dark, bleak and atmospheric with a strong emphasis on isolation, suspense and vulnerability.

 

Either that or something like Quake Champions: Doom Edition where you can play the single-player campaign as one of many playable characters.

Edited April 2, 2021 by Rudolph

[jazzmaster9]

11 minutes ago, omalefico32x said:

yea i dislike doom 3 but i will say i liked that they took risks with it and its the same with new doom i understand why some dislike but the series needed to evolve too

Im sure there has been the equivalent of "lol this is just warhammur 4000k" back then when Doom 3 came out.

 

I personally didn't like Doom 3 as well, but again Im not gonna blame them for changing things up or making childish comments,

"lol carmack should bbe punched and fired for doom 3" though im sure this also happened back then to, and yet Doom survived.

[Rudolph]

4 minutes ago, jazzmaster9 said:

Im sure there has been the equivalent of "lol this is just warhammur 4000k" back then when Doom 3 came out.

I remember Doom 3 being compared to System Shock and even Half-Life back then.

[Andromeda]

2 hours ago, Kute said:

I saw someone in this thread saying they should have continued on from Doom 3 - that game is the one failure of the franchise.

Failure? Far from it. It was the natural continuation of the Doom saga, keeping close to the tense experience provided by the first two games on release. Sadly it failed to live up to the (warranted, in due to the long development time and the weight of the franchise) enormous hype at the time of release. The reboot and subsequent sequel mark a paradigm shift into a high octane action game, which isn't really what Doom is about to me but I guess I'm in the minority.

[Doomdude89]

3 minutes ago, jazzmaster9 said:

Im sure there has been the equivalent of "lol this is just warhammur 4000k" back then when Doom 3 came out.

 

I personally didn't like Doom 3 as well, but again Im not gonna blame them for changing things up or making childish comments,

"lol carmack should bbe punched and fired for doom 3"

Dooms 3 downfall was his slow gameplay, way too dark and some seriously questionable arsenal designs (shotgun random spread, chaingun low capacity, rocket launcher reload, bfg being able to blow u up other than that ,the games level design was great (allthough way too dark), hell looks way better than in 2016 and i also like the enemy designs more. People simply were pampered with fast paced shooters at that time, Quake/UnrealTournament/Half life and many more. Nowadays if you play it with an flashlight mod and console commands that make you move fast (also doable with quake 4) I once a critic against Doom 3 have seriously started appreciate what it truly is.

[Liberation]

Doom 3 was abit of a tech demo, and actually a good game in its time. Its not aged well admittedly.

 

Although I don't remember any real hatred towards it back in the day, I think it sold pretty well. Got an expansion pack after all.  

[Rudolph]

9 minutes ago, Andromeda said:

Failure? Far from it. It was the natural continuation of the Doom saga, keeping close to the tense experience provided by the first two games on release. Sadly it failed to live up to the (warranted, in due to the long development time and the weight of the franchise) enormous hype at the time of release. The reboot and subsequent sequel mark a paradigm shift into a high octane action game, which isn't really what Doom is about to me but I guess I'm in the minority.

I do not think there is a single entry in the Doom franchise as of today that could be legitimately considered a failure. Even Id Software does not seem embarrassed of Doom 3, as it keeps re-releasing it, first through the BFG Edition and now as a VR title.

 

Heck, I can see the cancelled Doom 4 doing well enough.

[NoXion]

Did we ever get a clear idea of what kind of mechanics were going to be in Doom 4? I know it got dubbed "Call of Doom", but I was wondering if that was based on anything concrete from Id.

[Liberation]

I think it was based on some video footage of the alpha iirc.

[Tycitron]

Im gonna say this aswell: I thought the "call of doom" looked pretty neat, i would love for it to be made into a spinoff

[Zulk RS]

52 minutes ago, Tycitron said:

Im gonna say this aswell: I thought the "call of doom" looked pretty neat, i would love for it to be made into a spinoff

 

I don't know. I didn't really like the alpha footage of that game. But I do think it might work well if they can incorporate a more involved story while still giving the player ample freedom, kinda like how many ZDoom Wads do. Also I think Doom Eternal and Doom 2016 did that well too.

 

Maybe something like Abysm or Wolfendoom?

[snapshot]

On 4/2/2021 at 1:52 PM, Kute said:

that game is the one failure of the franchise.

One of the best selling games in the franchise and a highly rated game is a failure? what?

[DoomGater]

22 hours ago, sluggard said:

One of the best selling games in the franchise and a highly rated game is a failure? what?

Quality and sales do not always have anything to do with each other.