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Tycitron

Am i the only one who doesn't like the direction the series is going?

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22 minutes ago, Doomkid said:

A remake of that ad, but with Doom 2 in place of the cheese, would make me crack the fuck up.. “so the kids can enjoy the same old Doom that we did!”

 

LOOOL do you actually understand Greek or you just guessed that this is what the ad was was actually saying?

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12 minutes ago, oCrapaCreeper said:

-snip-

 

He always did hate them (after the rabbit incident), nothing has changed there. But there was a psychological element as well: fear. You only need to look at his status bar mug to see how they tried to convey that.

 

I'm fine with them linking Doom64 to the new games, that actually made some sense as he stayed behind in hell. Some thought went into it with the whole 'entombed' thing. What I'm a little more iffy about is them deciding to retcon it and make out he's classic Doomguy. It just doesn't float for me. I still enjoyed Doom Eternal but I had to consciously make an effort to ignore the whole super hero theme.

 

I mentioned this to someone the other day: When you try to replace an established character, especially one that's almost 3 decades old, you will inevitably meet with resistance from older fans. I already have an image of him, built over decades. That doesn't mean the new version of Doomguy is bad, it's just how I see him. It's no easy thing to dislodge.

 

However, you have to pull in a younger audience if you want to keep a franchise going after this amount of time has passed. I fully understand why they did that and change is required or things get stale. I simply lean more towards classic Doomguy because he wasn't special in any way. He had endurance and grit, surviving on nothing more than his wits.

 

To me that is Doomguy, but everyone has a different image or opinion.

 

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3 minutes ago, Maes said:

 

LOOOL do you actually understand Greek or you just guessed that this is what the ad was was actually saying?

 

Kali nichta! :D

 

There are Subtitles :)

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20 minutes ago, Azuris said:

 

Kali nichta! :D

 

There are Subtitles :)

 

Damn it, I was looking forward to Doomkid's excuse lol.

 

Edited by Final Verdict

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4 minutes ago, Final Verdict said:

 

Damn it, I was looking forward to his excuse lol.

 

Nothing to Excuse :)

 

To the Topic:

 

I like the new Games and their Direction.

Gameplaywise they have more in common with the Classics than other modern Egoshooters.

It has a very fast paced combat, as it is a Mixture/Evolution of Doom and Quake, has Secrets to puzzle the to them out as in the Classics and some really nice Levels.

I only dislike that Enemies as the Blood Maykr and the Cursed Prawler are taking this gameplay Direction away and are there to troll you.

 

Also storywise it would be nicer if Hell stayed more in the Dark in a mysterious Way, but thats Taste :)

So also the DLCs making it worse :P

 

Overall, love the Maingames.

 

But i wouldn't be mad if they release some "Offspring" mimiking the old Games very close.

Ion Fury etc. show that it can sell as a "Budged" Title.

 

And another But:

We have so much Community created Stuff that it is maybe not worth it to wish for something like that :)

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I'm very happy that Doom is not only alive and kicking in 2021, but also seemingly more popular than its ever been. They had to do something to not only keep the series relevant, but pull in a new audience. I think mechanically, Eternal is a modern masterpiece that represents a step forward for FPS as a genre after years upon years of increasingly lame COD reskins and their derivatives. That's no small achievement. 

 

However, I do get where the OP is coming from and I kindof agree tbh. I think those are symptoms of modern pop culture and modern gaming culture, neither of which are things I care for in the slightest. r/Doom is nothing but people posting gameplay clips of Eternal and getting upvoted into oblivion for it, there's nothing original or creative about that. Not in the same way as creating brand new content for an already existing classic, and still making it feel fresh almost 30 years on, but whatever. Let them have their fun.

 

The Id Software I knew and worshipped in my youth may be history, but the new guys have stepped up and shown that they care about the history and community of this game while also making a damn good effort to give it a fresh lick of paint. I mean, despite the slightly cringe "curated" notion, they're openly making selected community WADs available as official addons for the console port. I have to respect that.

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9 hours ago, Gifty said:

Maybe I'm a weirdo but I increasingly feel that a piece of art's most diehard fans are often the last voice you want to listen to if you're trying to make anything good.

I agree so much. In art, in entertainment, in politics -- the fanatics and dogma-heads are the last people you want dominating the discussion. Unfortunately, just by virtue of the intensity of their feeling, they are always the loudest.

 

Doom Eternal is an excellent shooter (less keen on AG1 though) in my view. It's a couple of cooldown timers past perfection, but ridiculously good fun in the right mood.

 

The direction I don't like is the "lore" which, from the little bits I didn't skip, is maybe the worst torrent of undigested bargain bin fantasy I've come across in many a year. An idiotic regression from Doom 2016's lean clever-stupid approach. But all the cutscenes are skippable so fair dos. I can enjoy it as pure gameplay, and there it shines.

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No, you're by far not the only one who doesn't like where things are going. We see something like on almost a weekly basis.

 

I'm personally fine with its direction.

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I don't like all the platforming and stupid glory kills or infighting that's just for looks and every map seems to be a pitfall and the lore overkill. I played Eternal for a short time and didn't want to continue. I haven't seen a Marauder. I want to kill demons not swing on poles.

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7 hours ago, Tony_Danza_the_boss said:

I'm sorry but if you are as big a fan of old school Doom here as I know most of Doomworld is, I don't know how you can defend Id and Hugo Martin for Eternal, especially after the colossal disappointment TAG2 was. 

Nice Gatekeeping there.

There are a lot of users here, like myself, who adore old School doom and Doom Eternal, but I guess we are not "real fans" right? sure buddy.

 

But to answer the OP.

No you are not the only one. the amount of "WAAA Doom is dead cuz platforming is for kids" Thread that has appeared after the release of Eternal is proof of that. I personally am glad that Doom is still alive and kicking in 2021 and Hope to see it progress further.

Edited by jazzmaster9

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I'm fine with the direction it's being taken in. I'm glad that they didn't try to convince us that a completely ordinary human being was somehow able to carve his way through multiple hordes of demons for years on end, entirely by himself. Trying to pull that shit is far less plausible than any amount of fantasy tropes and Divinity Machine antics.

If the platforming was frustrating, then I would understand why some people have a problem with it. But it isn't, so I don't get why it's so off-putting. The original Doom games had platforming in them that was much more irritating, so the idea that it's "not Doom" is objectively incorrect. Unless someone is saying that because they think that the platforming needs to be more frustrating.

 

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I prefer Sci-Fi vibes of Doom, but as long as Doom is about fucking up demons with Doomguy as a protagonist and metal OST playing in the background, I don't really mind the fantasy elements.

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3 hours ago, Maes said:

LOOOL do you actually understand Greek or you just guessed that this is what the ad was was actually saying?

Spoiler

he's cheating, the video has English subtitles. ;-)

 

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9 minutes ago, ketmar said:
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he's cheating, the video has English subtitles. ;-)

 

 

He typed "idsubtitles" while watching.

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Okay let me explain myself, Before you immediately yell at me, let me say i LOVE that the series is going so well and gameplay is really good, what i'm mainly talking about it how Doom is just a Warhammer-lite, with the big mechs, W40K Space marine looking armor and the huge fantasy element. Like i just miss the way the classics/doom 3 were, where you were a Space Marine barely surviving Phobos and Deimos and mars, Instead of a Demigod. and most importantly, things weren't over-explained like they were in DE and 2016. And yes i know Classic Doom had SOME fantasy elements, but it felt natural in the OG games, even then it had an "Aliens" feel more than a fantasy feel.

I absolutely agree with you on this. I prefer it where the game didn't feel like you're some sort of demi-god and the demons fear you. The demons should have no grasp on an emotion like fear, as that makes them seem far less menacing. The player being a lone marine adds a horror element to the story. You're a fucking marine stuck on the moons on Mars, alone with only a shitty 9mm handgun... That doesn't sound like the beginnings of a power trip fantasy. That sounds like pure hell. You can't glory kill your way out of it either, so you're limited to using your fist or pistol until you can find a better weapon, which makes the demons feel more threatening because getting too close to them is often not a smart move.

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Doom nowadays feels way too meta to me, with the LOL RIP AND TEAR/ YOU ARE THE DANGER/OVER-USE OF DAISY, like i liked them at first, but now that's ALL people refer to Doom as, are those 3 things, and it makes me die inside every time i see it, but now that the new games are like this, and wildly successful, It seems like we could never go back to the way it used to be without people freaking out. And That's a damn shame, I think the classic Doom story premise would make a great story and game

I respect the amount of work the games took, and i Like Hugo alot, and i do like the gameplay (minus the arenas) but i'm scared for Series's future, (also i hope quake and doom stay separate) But yeah feel free to disagree, but i wanted to vent this somewhere.

I remember the Rip and Tear stuff used to be looked down upon because people associated it with the comic book, which didn't seem to be a fan favorite until in more recent years. I don't think the series is going to stay in this same direction forever. Just look at Id's catalog of games for crying out loud! They never keep the same style for much longer than 1-2 games at the most! I also agree, I want Doom and Quake to stay separate, or at least in separate universes. I wouldn't be against them having the Ranger and Marine together in a game, but I would still want them to be from separate realities. I think Quake II would fit much better in Doom's world if they were going to connect anything together.

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TL;DR: Doom to me feels like its trying to be warhammer-lite instead of an Aliens/Evil dead-esque series. and i miss the former. feel free to disagree

I think this is mostly to do with the fact that pop culture has changed. Aliens/Evil Dead was the hot thing back then, now it's more about super heroes, slow motion, and fantasy in general. I do prefer the gritty Aliens/Evil Dead + Die Hard level of action vibes from the originals, but that is likely to do with my age and interests, and less to do with the quality of the new games.

Overall, I am not angry or mad at the direction Id has taken Doom. It has done nothing but positive things in terms of growing the community. I may not agree with the overall direction, I may not enjoy the gameplay, etc. but I believe eventually they will reboot the series again, so maybe next time they'll hook us in who felt let down by this approach of Doom. Think about it.. most of the people who did not like Doom 3 are very into these new games. Doom 3 was to them what these are to us. Yes, there's going to be exceptions of people who happened to like Doom 3 and the current games, but it seems Doom 3 was disliked by a lot of people who are now quite happy. So that's why I think it's best to just stick it out, because Id is very likely to reboot the series, again, eventually.

 

These are only my opinions.

 

Respectfully,

-alLAN95th

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As someone who is somewhat into WH40k lore, can I just say that DE feels nothing like WH40k, tonally speaking? They've taken some visual design cues, for sure, but there's a complete lack of that unique blend of pessimism and cynicism in the atmosphere that makes 40k so very grimdark. There are no real saviours in 40k, each faction is kinda shitty in its own unique way. But Doomslayer is a genuine and effective hero whose actions are literally world-changing. That kind of thing would be seriously out of place in 40k.

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Yeah, I have to agree with NiXion here, DE is a lot more light hearted than the 40k lore and while GW do jazz it up sometimes to make it more kiddy friendly to sell models, the actual lore and tombs from the black library are pretty horrific.

 

The artwork difference between D16 and DE is pretty different and I'm a bit 50/50 on that, but it doesn't effect the enjoyment of the game for me so I'm happy to just move on from that gripe.

 

The main direction I didn't like was the added platforming (yeah, yeah I know), I felt that was just filler and I wasn't impressed with it at quakecon 2019 and still was not impressed when the game shipped, it ultimately made the game that was awesome combat wise, a chore to play and I have no intention of buying anymore of it. I killed the Icon of sin and I'm happy to stop there on a high.

I think the direction they took is more inline with the times and also appealing to a wider ranger of players, there is something for everyone in DE (+tag's), lore, slaughter like fights, challenges, platforming, resource management and secret hunting wrapped up in a awesome looking game.

Ultimately, I think DE is going/gone in the right direction, in terms of what iD want with the franchise and in terms of sales. Whether I like it or not, iD are clearly doing something right :-).  

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@NoXion I know right, I am also into W40K lore too some of the design choices are a bit similar but not same.

 

Also @Tycitron I understand what you mean friend, I sometimes feel the same about the series but here is something important about we should admire about and that is new id team didn't put the series as same place as 3D realms did to Duke Nukem, right ? I've seen many people even some of them my close friends want a DooM game similar to DooM 3. Nothing is wrong about this because since each of us' taste of gameplay and styles are different it is completely normal to me. About the memes. You are right about your opinion but as we all know, we are in the middle of Internet age. When I was a child, there was no thing such as internet so we couldn't know much about games except buying magazines. Nowaday, people see something and copy paste the same thing over, over and over again. I learned to avoid them so you should do the same. We can't do anything for this. Lastly, new DooM games will never change about what I feel towards DooM. I don't have to keep them in same place of my hearth. Each of them have different taste and serves to their purposes, at least for me. Just think of them as Official Wads. As we community,

we all do many different things for this game day by day. It is why I always come back here and look for "What people made today for DooM."

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2 hours ago, NoXion said:

As someone who is somewhat into WH40k lore, can I just say that DE feels nothing like WH40k, tonally speaking? They've taken some visual design cues, for sure, but there's a complete lack of that unique blend of pessimism and cynicism in the atmosphere that makes 40k so very grimdark. There are no real saviours in 40k, each faction is kinda shitty in its own unique way. But Doomslayer is a genuine and effective hero whose actions are literally world-changing. That kind of thing would be seriously out of place in 40k.

unrelated but honestely seens like everytime theres a game or media that has futuristic marines and some kinda of conflict involving space (be it aliens or something super natural) people imediatley says it is a 40k rip off but i have no doubt that most people dont even know what 40k is beyond bulk space armor

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16 hours ago, Tony_Danza_the_boss said:

Tldr: Hugo Martin will never be in the same hemisphere as Romero and Carmack were when it comes to designing Doom games.

 

Hugo admitted on the Final Sin stream that no perfect Doom game has ever been made, but then corrected himself and said that the OG Doom games were the only perfect Doom games. He's fully aware that the current Doom games will never hit the peak that OG Doom did, but they're doing their best with what they have.

 

TBH, it's pretty good compared to what it COULD have become (something much worse).

 

16 hours ago, Tony_Danza_the_boss said:

The amount of lore and codex pages in Eternal truly border on the insane.

 

Isn't most of that stuff completely optional? As in it's there if you want it, but you aren't required to care about it if you don't want?

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Tbh I don't care what direction they take the series in, story/lore started out fine with 2016 but has become too much of a convoluted mess to even understand or care about in Eternal, terrible storytelling, it's like they're not even trying (The "Dark Lord"? seriously? how cliché Lol) clearly the writers are either trolling you or you're not meant to take it so seriously Lol, that's a -2 points for the game, thankfully most of it can be skipped. but If you want great story driven singleplayer experiences there are plenty of other games out there that deliver just that, look no further than games like Portal 2, BioShock Infinite, The Witcher 3, Quantum Break, Detroit: Become Human, even Cyberpunk 2077 has one of the most engrossing experiences I've played...etc

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I actually prefer Doom Eternal over 2016.  I found the checkpoint-only saves and the platforming frustrating in DOOM 2016 and found that they put me off from exploration, but have rarely felt that way with Eternal.  One of the main reasons is Eternal's mechanic of fining you 10-15 health when you mistime a jump and fall too far, and respawning you close to where you jumped (until your health drops to zero or below, of course).  For me it strikes the right balance.  It's not realistic, but it's Doom, it doesn't have to be.

 

I'm not a fan of the whole "rip and tear" thing but I think that's been around since at least the early days of Brutal Doom, and I guess id wanted to cater more for that demographic with the new Doom games.  But I don't feel that either of the new Doom games force the "rip and tear" thing down my throat.  I remember for instance wandering around exploring Exultia and hearing a subtle rendition of the Doom 1 victory music playing and feeling thoroughly immersed in it.

 

I don't think much of the lore in Doom Eternal either, apart from the descriptions of the monsters and weapons, but I guess my solution was not to take too much notice of it.  It's probably difficult to make a decent storyline out of a premise as simplistic as that of the original Doom games.

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18 hours ago, Doomkid said:

A remake of that ad, but with Doom 2 in place of the cheese, would make me crack the fuck up.. “so the kids can enjoy the same old Doom that we did!”

Literally the exact same thought I had after watching that.

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no, but i've simultaneously figured out that it's wholly not worth attempting to discuss the triumphs and failings of D2016 and DE because for some reason people take any criticism of them incredibly personally and will argue about it with you in really lame ways until the heat death of the universe if you let them

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23 minutes ago, Reaverbot said:

no, but i've simultaneously figured out that it's wholly not worth attempting to discuss the triumphs and failings of D2016 and DE because for some reason people take any criticism of them incredibly personally and will argue about it with you in really lame ways until the heat death of the universe if you let them

As a browser of the Steam forums, I can say that this is 100% true

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Thanks for all the opinions everyone, Glad its still civil, well, of course it is, but still. Even posting this same post in the Doom subreddit somehow managed to keep itself civil, knowing that place. But yes, i still enjoy the newer ones, but i hope one day ID goes back to the way the older games were with the tone and story. But for now theres a crap-ton of mods to play, So ill probably be doing that.

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I don't think it matters if the community can make an endless amount of Doom fan content, it's just not the same as an official game. I think ID should try to make Doomguy more human and less unstoppable superhuman, that's what made a lot of the first game special. The player may have not been the ultimate weapon against evil, but it was cooler to see a normal human being take on the spawn of evil and the Icon of Sin itself. Maybe if ID tried to portray Doomguy less as an ultimate being and more as what seems to be a normal person, fighting evil would be cooler.

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Wut? Doom Marine has always been superhuman. What other game lets you outrun your rockets while taking no fall damage when falling from an skyscraper. Also ID is not the same ID it was decades ago (same goes for any other company that was established in the 90s EA/Blizzard etc) 2016 was praised cuz well there werent even any other big shooters as competitors and the nostalgia factor :D Still i rather play Doom3 (with console commands giving me the runspeed of the Original game) Than i would touch 2016 again. Sure Doom3 has its own share of issues but at least its actually way more fast paced and interesting than that scripted, pinata smashing mess of 2016. Honestly Doom today what ive seen feels like Diablo lore from space. It truly never needed an deep story to stand out. As long as the gameplay was excellent.

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9 minutes ago, Doomdude89 said:

Wut? Doom Marine has always been superhuman. What other game lets you outrun your rockets while taking no fall damage when falling from an skyscraper.

Simple: Gameplay reasons, theres no proof in lore in the classic games only that he ACTUALLY moves that fast, or resists those falls, if that what true, then Doomguy also cant jump or look up or down at all. For all reasons the OG doomguy/Doom3Guy are normal space marines taking on the forces of hell because hes forced to.

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I personally don't care what most people think about the newer ones, i think it's okay to like them both, but i hate how so many people constantly overhype DE&16'.

They're great games, but it gets to a point of which you have to wonder if it's truly worthy of the hype.

Other then that, the only real thing that ticks me off is when someone accuses you of being a 'hater' or 'gatekeeper' just because you don't find lol so random rip&tear bfg division bass boosted x16 funny, but thankfully that's a rare occasion and not something people unironically do frequently.

 

TL;DR: Doom Eternal and 16' are great and it's okay if you don't like them, but it's also not okay to constantly shit on them just because it's not the same stagnated product over and over again.

 

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