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Tycitron

Am i the only one who doesn't like the direction the series is going?

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11 minutes ago, DoomGater said:


Quality and sales do not always have anything to do with each other.


But this it's "Objectively" true, or just a small portion or fans?

 

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NuDoom makes more money. That's true..
But only OldDoom was more often installed than MS Windows :-)

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23 hours ago, sluggard said:

One of the best selling games in the franchise and a highly rated game is a failure? what?

Failure was too strong a word - but it's the only game in the franchise that would be unable to start a franchise, imo. It's a 79% kind of game, a good game with spectacular graphics. But in the context of its title, it's a letdown. 

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11 minutes ago, DoomGater said:

NuDoom makes more money. That's true..
But only OldDoom was more often installed than MS Windows :-)


So MS and idSoftware launched Doom95? To make more money :-)

NuDoom it's better that DOS Doom anyway.


 

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 Doom 3 was so good it put the series on hiatus for over 10 years, never got a sequel, and future titles did a complete 180 on its mechanics. Because it was so good. 

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One thing to consider - many of the decisions about direction were made under the time pressure of the 2 DLC releases in 1 year. Now that they don't have that over their head, they can relax and reconsider the direction of the series.

 

Also, none of us know the direction the series is going, since this arc 'closed' with Doom Slayer taking a sarcophanap after the Dark Lord's defeat.

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Posted (edited)
39 minutes ago, Mr. Freeze said:

 Doom 3 was so good it put the series on hiatus for over 10 years, never got a sequel, and future titles did a complete 180 on its mechanics. Because it was so good. 

Not gonna lie I'd be down for an Eternal-like Doom 3 sequel or reboot or whatever, mix Doom Eternal gameplay with the style of 3 and maybe better storytelling, 2016 got somewhat close to that.

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I loved Doom 2016. Very classic but modern, same feeling of the original series but in theme. Gunplay, atmospheres, design, music.
 

The new one seems like a Doom-clone made by a fan...what a delusion. Total lack of ammos followed by a forcing use of chainsaw and gadgets. Level design...a mess of futuristic 90's levelers and elevators, mixed with comedy UAC workers. Plus, demonic architecture at random, actually not build-in as a sorta of sense like the 2016 game, but amassed without any context. It seems a kid who learnt to use Unreal Engine and started to place things around. Bah. Nice for the Boss ideas, okay, but what about the story?
In 2016 it was low, narrated, simple but there it was. Now suddenly Khan Maykr is thrown in our faces like hey, it existed so take it with this 1 minute cinematic. In the tutorial we kill a priest, 33% of demons de-spawned, nice. I mean, it's supposed Earth is in deep danger, dire and dark days..instead everything seems so common and normal it cut away the feeling of Hell on Earth. 

Warrior society which Doomguy comes from? Yeah you find a member of the same cult/whatever, he says 'hey you cannot stop this, bye' I mean seriously? It's a possible tie-in with the story, actually develop things for good...No. 
You come from this society with a king, bla bla bla, done.

Like, what?

Hours of hints and codex found in 2016 and now you find out everything in 5 minutes.

No, just no.
 

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42 minutes ago, Viridovix said:

It's supposed Earth is in deep danger, dire and dark days..instead everything seems so common and normal it cut away the feeling of Hell on Earth. 

 

Spoiler

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  Yeah! Remind me of Manhattan! Maybe with a little touch of Texas normal climate.

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2 minutes ago, jamondemarnatural said:

 

  Hide contents

image.png.5a2989edb1791f68dc1ff6625fb71bbc.png

image.png.68e9b45f66321577d82a302e28ba6968.png

 

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  Yeah! Remind me of Manhattan! Maybe with a little touch of Texas normal climate.

 

 

Ahah, entertainments for demons.

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Diff'rent Strokes! I personally dig the the new Doom games and the direction they're taking. Doom has always taken influence from other things. Back in the day it was Aliens and Evil Dead, today it's Warhammer and that's groovy. For me it's amazing to see that the Doom franchise is still around today and kicking ass.

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5 hours ago, Mr. Freeze said:

 Doom 3 was so good it put the series on hiatus for over 10 years, never got a sequel, and future titles did a complete 180 on its mechanics. Because it was so good. 

does that really mean a whole lot tho? the same can be said about other games considered to be really good

 

being the black sheep of the series doesn't automatically make it bad

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7 hours ago, Mr. Freeze said:

 Doom 3 was so good it put the series on hiatus for over 10 years, never got a sequel, and future titles did a complete 180 on its mechanics. Because it was so good. 

Hardly doubt Doom 3 sold bad.

Half Life 2 was an big success, 17 years no Half Life 3... 

iD was prob burned out of ideas for Doom at that point. 

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Posted (edited)

So my personal take is that I’m more excited than ever with where they’re taking the Doom franchise; both in regards to the storyline and the gameplay.

 

(And in case you’re wondering why Doom 3 never got a sequel, it was mainly because id at the time actually had no desire to make one; this was stated by John Carmack in that G4 documentary for Doom 3. If anything, Doom 3 was actually id’s biggest financial success up until Doom 2016/Eternal).

 

 

So I’m not going to lie; leading up to Eternal’s release, the promotional material was basically telling me that the franchise was headed in a direction similar to the original Doom novels (a faithful retelling that then turns into some kind of nonsensical space opera).

Come the actual game’s release, it actually didn’t feel like that at all. Hell, even the various plot twists and turns that came with The Ancient Gods weren’t nearly as bad as people were making it out to be.

I mean, stuff like the Maykrs and the Dark Lord still felt very comic book-esque while also being distinctly Doom, which is exactly what id Software was going for.

 

Hell, even Doom 2016 which everyone seems to praise as this “perfect example of how a Doom game should look”, was also going for a more comic book-like feel especially in the last months of development (for example, it’s the reason why the Cacodemon went from bluish-gray with an azure eye in the concept art to brownish-red with a dull green eye around 2015 to the full-on classic colors of the final product sans the cat-like pupil); it’s why we have things like the Slayer’s Testaments and fist-bumping mini figurines.

Not only that, everyone saying that the Slayer in Eternal isn’t like “the same Slayer who pushed a TV aside the second Samuel Hayden started talking in 2016” seemed to have forgot that the Slayer in Eternal seems to give even less of a microshit of what anyone thinks, resulting in classic “led around the nose” antics like Mars being blown up with the BFG10K, Deag Grav’s head getting blown off in the middle of Sentinel Prime’s colosseum costing the Slayer his title of warrior-king among the Night Sentinels, wrecking Urdak, the Father’s life sphere being destroyed, etc.

 

Plus, it’s not like this is some novel development either; the original Doom was more horror-action based and was additionally focused on atmosphere as well as action whereas Doom II was more action-oriented and was reflected as such in things like the music choices and more open areas (which is why we often saw more monster types and higher monster counts).

In other words, OG Doom/Doom 2016 is basically Evil Dead 2 whereas Doom II/Doom Eternal is basically Army of Darkness.

 
 

And now with both parts of The Ancient Gods out of the way, it’s very clear now more than ever that id very much wants to do new things with the Doom franchise by expanding aspects of it that were never even touched on in previous titles. While I am personally stoked by what id wants to do next from here, I do understand why it kind of alienated those who essentially wanted More of the Same.

The thing is, we’re long past the bloodstained UAC techbase and the fire and brimstone Hell temple, and you can only do that so many times before it starts to get tedious.

Not only that, the “but not too serious” vibes of both 2016 and Eternal feel like a breath of fresh air compared to multiple contemporaries which try their damnedest to be Super Grimdark and Super Serious. Though, I do admit that this has caused the franchise to kind of stray from its horror-action roots especially with Eternal/TAG since quite a bit of mystery behind Hell as we know it is now gone.

 

 

So what am I saying out of all this?

 

The direction the Doom franchise is going in isn’t perfect by any means (especially since The Ancient Gods was more or less required to be all finished within a year), but it does feel like a natural evolution. Not only that, id has crafted these titles with nothing but the utmost care and it's very clear that they’re still learning how to create a Doom game that’s as close to perfect as possible.

 

 

And if you’re not a fan of this direction?

 

That’s completely fine. Not only do we still have the classic games but also nearly three decades worth of fan content, from single levels to mods to entire megawads.

Edited by Man of Doom

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I absolutely agree. I loved how it was about being a tough-as-nails marine killing waves of demons without much of a reason to other than the fact that you're the only man who can. Grinning when you find a new G U N, gritting your teeth when you take a hit, getting drenched in your own blood but pushing forward in spite of it. That hopeless feeling of running out of health and ammo, like you're lost at sea without anything but your lungs to hold you afloat.

 

Call me crazy, but DOOM 3 and DOOM 64 are my favorite games in the series, because fighting these vicious horrors would be hopeless if we didn't have shotguns. Killing disgusting, nightmarish monstrosities with nothing but guns and spite is a special type of badassery. Damn, I miss the action-horror. You know the feeling you get when a Baron just fuckin' yells at you? Or when the lights go out in some cramped corridors and you hear the monsters looking for you? Blood-pumping shit other than just the combat.

 

Now, we're a demigod going up against shit that has absolutely never had any chance of survival ever simply because we exist. It's a power fantasy. I prefer oppression, because it's fun to overcome that.

 

Plus, the fact that Doomguy was suddenly shown as a madman who nearly died fighting demons, and who needed to become a demigod and don high-tech armor just to survive, just kind of feels like it invalidates how we survived this whole time because of our will to overcome. Did Doomguy's will just run out? Even when the demons were mutated, and even when he got PTSD, he overcame. So... what the hell, man?

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4 hours ago, Archfiend said:

Plus, the fact that Doomguy was suddenly shown as a madman who nearly died fighting demons, and who needed to become a demigod and don high-tech armor just to survive, just kind of feels like it invalidates how we survived this whole time because of our will to overcome. Did Doomguy's will just run out? Even when the demons were mutated, and even when he got PTSD, he overcame. So... what the hell, man?

 

Honestly after what Doomguy has went through, I wouldn't be surprised he went from Marine struggling to survive to bloodthirsty killer to soulless killing machine.

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Posted (edited)
4 hours ago, Archfiend said:

You know the feeling you get when a Baron just fuckin' yells at you?

exasperation?

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I don't think they even intended for doomguy and doomslayer to be the same person initially. Felt like fan service after Doom 2016's success.

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1 hour ago, a.a.i. said:

I don't think they even intended for doomguy and doomslayer to be the same person initially. Felt like fan service after Doom 2016's success.

 

I still don't think I can wrap my head around how they are the same guy. They're backstories are just so different from each other. Can someone explain to me how according to the games, Doomguy became Doomslayer? All the lore videos just skimmed over this point or was just a footnote surrounded by other Doomslayer lore and I didn't get it.

 

Like Doomguy's backstory was he was marine that punched his CO because he gave an immoral order. He got sent to Phoebos base as punishment but when he got there, everyone was dead and it was up to him to fight off Hell. Then he fought hell more times until finally he decided to stay in hell to make sure the demons don't attack again.

 

Doom Slayer (As far as I know. Please correct me if I am wrong) was a member of the Night Sentinels. The Night Sentinels were like a different world where Hell attacked. The Night Sentinels were strong so they fought Hell's forces back. Then Doom Slayer's son died and he made a deal with hell to bring him back. This allowed Hell to take over the world of Argent D'nurr, the place where the Night Sentinels were and also screwed over Doom Slayer because they brought his son back as the Icon Of Sin. Doom Slayer went berserk and became the unstoppable nightmare to hellspawn.

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13 minutes ago, Zulk RS said:

 

I still don't think I can wrap my head around how they are the same guy. They're backstories are just so different from each other. Can someone explain to me how according to the games, Doomguy became Doomslayer? All the lore videos just skimmed over this point or was just a footnote surrounded by other Doomslayer lore and I didn't get it.

 

Like Doomguy's backstory was he was marine that punched his CO because he gave an immoral order. He got sent to Phoebos base as punishment but when he got there, everyone was dead and it was up to him to fight off Hell. Then he fought hell more times until finally he decided to stay in hell to make sure the demons don't attack again.

 

Doom Slayer (As far as I know. Please correct me if I am wrong) was a member of the Night Sentinels. The Night Sentinels were like a different world where Hell attacked. The Night Sentinels were strong so they fought Hell's forces back. Then Doom Slayer's son died and he made a deal with hell to bring him back. This allowed Hell to take over the world of Argent D'nurr, the place where the Night Sentinels were and also screwed over Doom Slayer because they brought his son back as the Icon Of Sin. Doom Slayer went berserk and became the unstoppable nightmare to hellspawn.

Well for one, it wasnt Doom Slayers son who died, it was the Betrayers (different person) whos son died, so he made a deal with the demons to resurrect his son, but instead was resurrected into the Icon of Sin, As for Doomguy being the same person, i dont really like that either, felt tacked on (esp since Classic Dooms hell is leagues different from modern doom) But after Doom 64, in the new D64 rerelease there was a "lost mission" episode that was a sequel to the base game, where after Doomguy stays in hell, he is suddenly warped back to earth, and realizes the Mother Demon has a sister called the "Resurrector" i think, so he goes back to hell and kills the resurrector, and after that, the text says:

 

"You had not expected to be torn from Hell so soon after your fateful decision. Getting back there was your only concern. The plans of the sister Resurrector to exterminate you have failed.

A grim vision takes hold of your mind as the demon carcasses steam in your wake. Stretched before you is a path of perpetual torment... A path through Doom..."  and then soon after he is somehow warped to the Sentinel place where he is then found by the priests. Soooo yeah. its really weird, and im not sure i like it, it wouldve been better as its own thing entirely.

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Ah I see. Thanks for clearing up the confusion. I thought the Betrayer and Doom Slayer was the same person. My bad.

 

So... Doom Guy went to the Night Sentinel place and became Doom Slayer? I guess it makes sense?

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15 minutes ago, Zulk RS said:

Ah I see. Thanks for clearing up the confusion. I thought the Betrayer and Doom Slayer was the same person. My bad.

 

So... Doom Guy went to the Night Sentinel place and became Doom Slayer? I guess it makes sense?

You may have not played Doom Eternal yet as it touches further into it.

 

But essentially he has proven to be a great demon killer when put to the test, so the Priests recruited him to their ranks and he rose high in the Night Sentinels. In the meantime, there has been secret agendas from the high ups who made deals with Hell. A Seraphim who had plans to disrupt this for his own agenda, put the Doom guy in a special machine that made him powerful, turning him into the Doom Slayer.

 

What I don't get is if Doom 1 + 2 + 64 + Doom 2016 / Eternal share the same Universe, did we not suffer Hell on earth already once before? Did everyone have a small memory, especially the UAC? Or are we to just believe there were corruption so a plan was hatched to released Hell once again?

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It's my understanding that there are different versions of Earth, all connected by Hell. There's a cut line from the Khan Maykr which talks about the Slayer's Earth as being in a different dimension to the one currently being invaded.

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Am i the only one who doesn't like the direction the series is going?

Well...for one side, I prefer that Doom keeps doing the same.base formula (shoot until it dies witha lot of references here and there) rather than being a completely different game.

 

And it's a good thing that we have the classic alternatives with a crapton of content to enjoy if the new games were disappointing to some.

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On 4/4/2021 at 5:47 PM, D4NUK1 said:

NuDoom it's better that DOS Doom anyway.

 

Well, that's your opinion. In my opinion it's not.

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They both have their own merits and should be thought of as two different entities.  I don't think you can discount the highly focused and tight design of the new Doom games just based on their differences to the original.  Invigorating the Doom franchise by introducing huge shake-ups to the FPS genre is about the best you can do to live up to the legacy of Doom.  The OG Doom mainstreamed the whole genre and is arguably the most influential game of all time, so any comparisons are going to come up short. 

 

I'm just glad that new id is making a game that feels distinct from everything else out there and at an undeniable level of quality.  Are people really going to sit back and say the huge variety of interesting artistic assets in Doom Eternal are not up to par?  The gameplay loop may not be for everybody but I would prefer that to the cookie cutter FPS games that saturate the market these days.  I understand not liking the story but it's optional content for the most part.  You can skip cutscenes and not read the codex entries and you're left with an extremely solid game.

 

So nah, I don't understand the complaints.

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