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Tycitron

Am i the only one who doesn't like the direction the series is going?

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no, i've heard many people say the same thing

 

i personally don't care cuz 1.) i'm too poor to play the new games and 2.) i care more about how fun it is to kill demons rather than who i kill them as

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Maybe I'm a weirdo but I increasingly feel that a piece of art's most diehard fans are often the last voice you want to listen to if you're trying to make anything good.

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I feel the same way, I'd rather that the new games continued where Doom 3 left off.

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Posted (edited)

It's certainly deviated enough (and honestly made some mistakes) to the point that it's very divisive no matter how you look at it. I'd hope that id does something to bring Doom back to a point where it could experiment but still the same broad flavor that can please the old fans as much as the newer ones.

 

It's just a bit sad that it's now got to a point where the divide is so massive that people either don't care about what others think of the newer games, and in the polar opposite others refuse attempts at innovation.

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I've always preferred the old Doom games over the new ones, but it doesn't really bother me if the new games are very different simply because the old games are still easily accessible, and there's an infinite supply of excellent community-made content for them.

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I pretend that new Doom is a reboot and have nothing to do with the originals other than being an homage

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I know the classic doom community IS amazing! ive been playing mods for more than a decade, but i still care about the later games and what theyre doing.

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I don't like it either, but I don't care much since the classic games will always be there, and it's not like we're short of other shooters.

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1 hour ago, Gifty said:

Maybe I'm a weirdo but I increasingly feel that a piece of art's most diehard fans are often the last voice you want to listen to if you're trying to make anything good.

you should listem to them but not ONLY them

die hards most oftem then not have its own idea of what the series is about in their head

if capcom would listem to me on advice on a possible mm zx3 it would be really dark and it would touch on thing that the series just had some references before

its good to listem to both sides while also having a good director that stands on their ground for controversial decisions in the series (that is one that is willing to take risks)

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Personally, I'm not a huge fan of Eternal. I haven't bothered to finish AG1/AG2. The gameplay loop just doesn't get me off. That being said I am absolutely stoked with the direction the franchise is going in.

 

The amount of attention and people that this fast paced gameplay has pulled in is fan-fucking-tastic. As a lifelong arena FPS fan the more people playing fast paced FPS the better.

 

When I do play Eternal I play on UV, I might even just play on HMP just to see the visuals and level design. If the new series was more faithful to Doom there would be a lot less enthusiasm and attention.

 

I love the visuals of Eternal and the worldbuilding. Gameplay is decent but the weapon switching and lack of pickups are meh.

The main thing is we still have Doom and Doom 2. What the fuck else do we need? We can't reasonably expect ID to create anything a) as good b) as moddable. As long as there's Doomers like us out there playing and making stuff then I'm happy. If a newer generation has more affinity of the quick weapon switching and dashing of Eternal then more power to them.

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No, you are not the only one by a long margin. Not everyone likes the same thing. The old games are still here. I am pretty sure you could play a new classic map every day for the rest of your life and not run out of material at this stage. Classic styled ports like Eternity, ZDoom and PRBoom, and more graphically advanced ones like K8Vavoom (I got the shameless plug in for you @ketmar ;) ) and GZDoom, high resolution resource packs and you can pretty much do whatever you want without needing to even think about the new games. I liked Doom 2016. I thought it was a solid update to the formula with a better story that wasn't over the top. I mostly like Eternal but I wish someone was there just saying "OK that's not a bad idea guys but maybe just... dial it back... just a smidge... there we go...", and some of the design was definitely erring on the bad side of dickish in places. But when you are "in the zone" the combat's great, frustrating as hell if not, and the story is batshit crazy but I find it oddly charming. And the environments are stunning. It really is a technical marvel given those scenes run at great framerates on my six year old rig. But it is much further removed from the Classic formula than 2016 was. So I totally get people not liking it. That's cool, everyone's different.

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I agree, on the one hand I'm kind of glad that a game series I like has gotten a successful reboot, because the bar for reboots has been set very low, but that doesn't mean the games are perfect

Carmack said all those years ago that the original Sonic the Hedgehog was his favourite game because "you just run fast, you don't need a ton of different gadgets and gimmicks to have fun", and it looks like the new games have taken the opposite approach to that, with the weapon/armour upgrades, having to shoot enemies in their weak spots to incapacitate them, etc.

And I might as well get myself crucified, I don't like the soundtracks of the new games either. Too dubsteppy.

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nuDoom very much feels like a separate entity born from the same mold going in its own direction. If you want things to go back to "The Way Things Were" then you needn't look further than the flourishing creative output from the Classic side of the community with all the new mods and WADs and sourceports being developed all the time. However, if you think nuDoom is going to suddenly revert back to what once was after this intense success, I wouldn't hold your breath. As for nuDoom's side of the community, much like Doomkid pointed out, you're probably simply burned out from the overexposure of Rip n' Tear memes that seem to plague r/Doom so much, we get refugees from there all the time making garbage threads complaining about it. Present company excluded of course ;^) Just take a break from there for a while. Try not to make a BIG DEAL out of it and allow yourself to transform into an unpleasant grouch because you don't approve of how other people have fun.

 

I can understand the frustration of nuDoom not being quite to your liking, but at the same time you have to accept that they needed to shake it up to keep things interesting. nuDoom's success very much hinges on a two-pronged attack of a refined, fast-paced modern style that ropes in new players while also creating enough homage and references to the franchise's lore and iconography to satisfy long-time fans as well, which is a hard balancing act for sure. I'm not terribly invested in nuDoom myself, but I certainly respect it for building upon the foundations, creating new mechanics and developing an actual narrative. I mean, personally, I think the narrative is kind of dopey and confusing but it's still at least trying. Naturally, it's not going to please everyone. Not sure what you can do about nuDoom not living to certain expectations, unfortunately. You could always hold out hope that they do a modern remake of Doom 1 in the nuDoom style since they've kind of written themselves into a corner with how they ended Eternal. That's my guess on what they'll do next since I very much doubt nuDoom's ending anytime soon...

 

...or they'll just keep farting out more DLC stuff, what the hell do I know? :^P 

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I don't mind it much tbh, but the extreme over use of rip and tear kind of makes me distance myself from the newer games, and it's pretty annoying just seeing people repeat the same phrase over and over again.

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The more the installments in a popular video game franchise, the less it remains faithful to the original. I am not complaining or anything, that's just the way things are.

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Doom nowadays feels way too meta to me, with the LOL RIP AND TEAR/ YOU ARE THE DANGER/OVER-USE OF DAISY

When a classic series becomes too self-aware and embraces its own meme status, that's when it starts dying.

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The last bit of Id software (to me) died in 2013 when John Carmack left to work on Oculus. To me, Id software isn't even close to the standard to how it was 20 years ago when Romero and Carmack ran the show. 2016 was ok, but Eternal has taken the series in a pretty radical direction from where the originals first started out. The amount of lore and codex pages in Eternal truly border on the insane. I've played fantasy RPG's with not even half the lore that Eternal has. And the platforming. And the crucible and hammer being a shitty charge/chainsaw replacement. I'm sorry but if you are as big a fan of old school Doom here as I know most of Doomworld is, I don't know how you can defend Id and Hugo Martin for Eternal, especially after the colossal disappointment TAG2 was. 

 

Tldr: Hugo Martin will never be in the same hemisphere as Romero and Carmack were when it comes to designing Doom games.

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Posted (edited)
1 hour ago, jghfugg29833 said:

I don't mind it much tbh, but the extreme over use of rip and tear kind of makes me distance myself from the newer games, and it's pretty annoying just seeing people repeat the same phrase over and over again.

I remember seeing a video that Midnight uploaded playing Sigil on nightmare back when Sigil first came out. I heard things about Midnight but I never watched his channel prior to that, but when he made a Classic Doom video I was like "Hey might as well check this out, I'm curious what this video is gonna be like".

 

Needless to say I instantly clicked off as soon as he put BFG Division over Classic Doom gameplay. It felt so cringe and out of place to the point where I literally felt my soul die a little on the inside. It also made me realize that a huge portion of the new Doom community have barely ever played a Classic Doom game before in their lives if at all.

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Yes I prefer the classic Doom's backstory and simplicity of Hell and Tech. Doom 2016 was fine until Eternal's story came around.

 

In saying that, don't forget how 90s Ninja Turtles action cool Doom's intermission's and manual was like.

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1 hour ago, I Drink Lava said:

When a classic series becomes too self-aware and embraces its own meme status, that's when it starts dying.

i dont think thats quite fair because the series has always been self aware to some extend

unless everyone here forgot about daisy, the dead keens, and the romero head on a stick

the doom comic isnt something new either

also i dont think it is as self aware as people say it is (unless were talking about battlemode skins these really look like shit)

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4 hours ago, Xaser said:

If you'd rather see Doom go in a more classic direction, the community here's got you covered -- take a peek at the WADS and Mods forum and take your pick.

 

Let id make the games they want to make, let the oldschool Doom community make the wads they wanna see (we've gotten damn good at it), and everyone wins.

 

That’s... that’s... well shit that’s a really good way to look at it and I genuinely hadn’t thought of it that way before! Thank you for :-D

 

Although to answer OP’s question, yeah a little.

 

I hope they back off a bit on the super twitch, precise, must be done this way only gameplay in next title. I don’t really like the “to kill this enemy, you must do a 360 no scope with the pistols secondary fire while wrapping sushi in one hand while simultaneously rubbing your belly and patting your head with the other all while ensuring you cross the road within the 0.0001 seconds the light stays green” type deal.

 

I kinda miss the days when the pro gamer tips were as simple as “to kill the cyber demon, shoot at it till it dies” :-D

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If I want classic Doom, there are enough wads to probably span the rest of my life time. Other than cringe memes and a fanbase with a shockingly short fuse, I don't think the reboots are doing anything to tarnish the legacy so to speak.

 

I appreciate Eternal for what it is: a game that grabs everything about the franchise and dials it to 11 in every aspect, and it is very successful at achieving that. The combat loop with the game throwing everything at you is probably one of the most engaging things in a video game, easy mode or harder.  Doom doesn't need to be dialed to 11 at all times for everyone though, and even people not familiar with the classic's preferred 2016's more grounded and simple approach to gameplay and the story.

On 3/31/2021 at 10:07 PM, DooM Bear said:

 

That’s... that’s... well shit that’s a really good way to look at it and I genuinely hadn’t thought of it that way before! Thank you for :-D

 

Although to answer OP’s question, yeah a little.

 

I hope they back off a bit on the super twitch, precise, must be done this way only gameplay in next title. I don’t really like the “to kill this enemy, you must do a 360 no scope with the pistols secondary fire while wrapping sushi in one hand while simultaneously rubbing your belly and patting your head with the other all while ensuring you cross the road within the 0.0001 seconds the light stays green” type deal.

 

I kinda miss the days when the pro gamer tips were as simple as “to kill the cyber demon, shoot at it till it dies” :-D

 

The game only really demands that on higher difficulties, rightfully so. Things are much more relaxed on hurt me plenty and below. You don't have to do super fast DPS combos, and you definitely don't have to strictly abide by the mechanics the game wants you to fall into.  Once you get good at it though, you only want to make the game harder and the fun comes from mastering it. That's why the 2nd part of the DLC was rather divisive when it came to difficulty. Difficulty seems to be the main thing dividing people on the game, other than requiring a galaxy brain to comprehend the story sometimes, which has enough written world building to write a chapter book that most people will never read.

 

It's not the same gameplay as classic Doom of course. Doomguy in classic Doom is basically a really fast lawnmower. Doomguy in Eternal is an F-16 fighter jet. The difference in complexity is huge even if both games abide by very similar rules that fundamentally make up Doom.

 

Edited by oCrapaCreeper

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I was just rambling about that the other day in some...thread or other.

 

I have always leaned more towards Doomguy as he was depicted in the classics. An above-average marine with an iron-will, who scrapes through by the skin of his teeth, gets beaten to a pulp and barely survives the whole ordeal. In a way it was a grim story of human endurance which leant it a kind of realism all by itself.

 

Besides being a fine specimen of a stubborn mule, his only other 'positive' trait was being tough. Aside from that there was nothing remarkable about him, nothing else that really set him apart from your (above) average human. This made the character more relatable and believable in my opinion. Death was a very real motivator for him.

 

I enjoyed the new Doom games but you can clearly see they took a page of the Marvel handbook. Everyone loves a power-trip don't get me wrong, but the downside is you can't really get immersed or relate to it as well as you could with classic Doomguy. Age is probably a factor too, I have little doubt that if I was a kid or in my teens then I might lean more towards the new image of Doomguy.

 

Personally I think it's more down to 10-15 years of watching super hero movies. You've seen it all before, so it gets old after awhile and you yearn for a deeper and more thought out character. Not a one dimensional super hero.

 

Then again, classic Doomguy went off on a rampage over a dead rabbit. That's about as believable as an intergalactic cosmic-squid with psychic powers attacking earth tomorrow. So I don't know, there always was a goofy side to Doom. I only know that I preferred the original Doomguy.

 

 

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26 minutes ago, Final Verdict said:

 

I was just rambling about that the other day in some...thread or other.

....

I think in the reboot you have to think of Doomguy as a character that has pretty much one staple trait: He hates demons enough that he has the will to try and kill them all. It's become his responsibility. That's the character. 

 

It's not too unlike classic Doom. If you want to follow the official canon barely held together with duct tape, he stops two different demon invasions in Doom 1 and 2, and in Doom 64 stops another one and then decides willingly to stay in hell so there are no more invasions. Fighting hell became his purpose, it drove him crazy and obsessed with killing all the demons. Sometime after that is when he gets warped to a strange land, adapts to it, completes an arc of transforming into something monstrous enough the demons eventually feared him. Still hates the demons, still wants to kill them all, but now he's operating at a biblical scale thanks to divine intervention.

 

Getting into the newfound divine aspects of things though is where things start to get rocky for people. Some people just don't like it outright, why make Doomguy a god? I don't hate it, it seems a natural progression of the character but I can see how it rubs people the wrong way. The codex in 2016 only barely mentions a lot of the things in eternal that we of course never see, because the game takes place in 2 locations. What are the Maykr's? Who is the Betrayer? Who is the Seraphim? Why do all these people know me? All of these questions have answers but it's jarring because it's new to see in the franchise, coming from a more grounded game.

Edited by oCrapaCreeper

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Posted (edited)

Ahh.... the good old days where everything was simpler, more authentic, just like the kaseri (a type of hard cheese) we used to eat...

 

 

Edited by Maes

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A remake of that ad, but with Doom 2 in place of the cheese, would make me crack the fuck up.. “so the kids can enjoy the same old Doom that we did!”

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