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DoomRevolver

Marax Dungeon - my third WAD

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Posted (edited)

I started this map months ago as an experimental thing. I never thought on publishing this WAD until very recently. So it's not literally the third one, because the project is older than Initiation Temple. This one is way more hardcore than my previous shared wads, but since I've been working on it for a long time, what the hell, here it goes.

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UPDATED TO V.1.3

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Txt file:

 

This is a huge level made with Doom 2 IWAD, with
                          non linear/metroidvania level design that has 
                          some tense moments where you have to manage

                          your ammo carefully. It also makes you
                          explore and analyze the enviroment to find out how to 
                          progress and avoid nasty traps. However, the final 
                          parts of the level are more run and gun focused, but 
                          most critical resources are placed in dangerous zones. 
                          Overall it's meant to be a hard challenge.

                          It was going to be a 3 level campaign at
                          first, but I decided I wanted everything to be
                          interconected in a single mazelike map, like in
                          some Resident Evil games (Im a big fan of 7 and 2
                          remake). So it can be considered a mini campaign.
                          
                          PLEASE DON'T USE JUMP OR ANY NEW MECHANICS.
                          ---------------------
                          A bit of "story":
                          Marax, a great earl and president of hell, is 

                          sick of you causing trouble to his kind. He
                          managed to trap you inside
                          his gargantuan dungeon, hoping that you never find
                          the exit and that his personal army have a feast
                          with your innards.
                          
                          You have to figure out how to escape this brutal
                          maze of torture while dealing with sadistic traps
                          and really harsh demon encounters
                          which will require a lot of ammo. You'll find
                          yourself in different enviroments, from dark
                          claustrophobic areas to wide marble halls, making
                          quick decisions on which object to activate or which path
                          to take first, all of this under enemy pressure.
                          Exploration and resource management 
                          is key to survive. Keep in mind that you'll revisit
                          most rooms of the dungeon, so use the available
                          items wisely and stay on your toes. 
                          Danger lurks around every corner.   

                          ----------------------------------------

                          ABOUT V.1.3:
                          -----------------------------------------
                          -I added some detail in final arenas.
                          -------------------------------------------
                          Inspirations:
                          
                          -Resident Evil
                          -Sigil
                          -Wolfenstein 3D
                          -Doom 3
                          -Doom 64
                          -Doom 2 Master Levels

 

Marax Dungeon V.1.3.zip

 

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Edited by DoomRevolver : File update

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Posted (edited)

Well, I did my best, but just could not for the life of me figure out what to do now, I suppose that's a problem inherent in a map of this size, there's just too many switches and teleporters to make it clear where you're supposed to go. Good map though, but the number of pain elementals and lost souls you put in borders on sadism.

Screenshot_Doom_20210409_184410.png.ae8c676a0878ae82d153d2a6ed511d0f.png

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14 hours ago, Sena said:

Well, I did my best, but just could not for the life of me figure out what to do now, I suppose that's a problem inherent in a map of this size, there's just too many switches and teleporters to make it clear where you're supposed to go. Good map though, but the number of pain elementals and lost souls you put in borders on sadism.

Screenshot_Doom_20210409_184410.png.ae8c676a0878ae82d153d2a6ed511d0f.png

 

Hello, thanks a lot for playing and giving feedback. 

After seeing your automap, I think this are the two places you haven't visited yet.

 

 

The first one is the blue door below that floor that's moving up and down, and the second is behind that wooden pilar with the berserk pack on top. Both lead you to the remaining swithces that you need to use to clear the bridge with crosses. I should highlight both paths better, so they are not that hard to find.

 

Yeah, there are a lot of Pain elementals xDD Honestly, I want this map to be a bit sadistic 

 

One question: did you experience any lag? 

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What a bigass map you've provided to us !

 

The sheer size and humongous amounts of enemies, as well as the hub-like design of the map, heavily reminds me of another map of that sort featured in either Alien Vendetta or Memento Mori (I can't remember which WAD it was). Thank god for the Computer Map !

 

When you design maps of that "envergure", you shouldn't hesitate to be even more generous in terms of ammunition and health. Especially health, because arena-type sections are quite draining for the player.

I also believe, like Sena said, that you could improve a bit more as well on navigation. For exemple, create or import some textures that would serve as landmarks or something akin to it. Not that I had difficulties navigating, though.

And please, please, do lessen the amount of Lost Souls to strictly contextual sections ! Pain Elementals are already the bane of Doom players, don't make it harder by giving them a bajillion companions :(

 

Other than that, great job ! I love this map in terms of design, and there is quite the amount of small touches that make me happy (like the broken brick wall parts, or the Nazi rooms) :)

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2 hours ago, Origamyde said:

What a bigass map you've provided to us !

 

The sheer size and humongous amounts of enemies, as well as the hub-like design of the map, heavily reminds me of another map of that sort featured in either Alien Vendetta or Memento Mori (I can't remember which WAD it was). Thank god for the Computer Map !

 

When you design maps of that "envergure", you shouldn't hesitate to be even more generous in terms of ammunition and health. Especially health, because arena-type sections are quite draining for the player.

I also believe, like Sena said, that you could improve a bit more as well on navigation. For exemple, create or import some textures that would serve as landmarks or something akin to it. Not that I had difficulties navigating, though.

And please, please, do lessen the amount of Lost Souls to strictly contextual sections ! Pain Elementals are already the bane of Doom players, don't make it harder by giving them a bajillion companions :(

 

Other than that, great job ! I love this map in terms of design, and there is quite the amount of small touches that make me happy (like the broken brick wall parts, or the Nazi rooms) :)

Thank you!! it's quite a challenge for me to make this kind of map. My main inspiration for this wad, in level design, was Resident Evil 1 and the way it was a bit confusing to progress, making you double check everything and backtrack. I'm thinking on new ways to highlight that the player has to unlock the bridge to progress, and also the important mandatory zones. I'll also nerf the difficulty as well in the next version.

 

 Did you reach the exit? I'd like to know if there's lag, specially at the final arena halls.

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1 hour ago, DoomRevolver said:

Did you reach the exit? I'd like to know if there's lag, specially at the final arena halls.

 

Bruh, I felt like I was attending Driving School (the one with slides how's) with that much lag. 

 

It's a miracle my CPU hasn't blown off from that many enemies, and I'm using a laptop of all things :S

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Posted (edited)
2 hours ago, Origamyde said:

 

Bruh, I felt like I was attending Driving School (the one with slides how's) with that much lag. 

 

It's a miracle my CPU hasn't blown off from that many enemies, and I'm using a laptop of all things :S

Damn xDDD sorry to hear that. At least this wasn't a slaughter map LOL. Hope you were able to enjoy it despite all that.

This map is more of a experiment for me. I always wanted to do a huge level but I know this type of level gives technical trouble, since most people are using UV and modern ports. I always play vanilla, I prefer old pixel graphics and lightning, but even I get a bit of lag in gzdoom

 

Edited by DoomRevolver

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hi. i love huge maps. played your map in uv, though not finished yet. found your map to be aesthetically pleasing. gameplay was a great pleasure too, with neat ambushes sprinkled thoughout the map. puzzle-wise not too difficult, just the right amount. overall, i found it intriguing that this your third wad. more like the works of a seasoned pro mapper. a big thank you for making such a superb mapset.

Screenshot_Doom_20210410_232046.png

Screenshot_Doom_20210410_232406.png

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6 hours ago, DoomRevolver said:

One question: did you experience any lag? 

 

None, I played on LZDoom if it means anything, and I've definitely gotten lag in the past so it's not like I'm just on a high end computer (I'm not).

And I tried to use that video you posted to help me with my navigation, which I should probably mention is bad to begin with, sometimes I get lost so easy you'd think I do it on purpose, but I'd already opened that blue door, and I'd definitely gotten that berserk + supercharge already, even tried turning on noclip to just see if I could find areas I hadn't yet been to that way, but it didn't work any better. If you do a map of this size again, might be worth considering separating into several smaller islands, to at least make it easier to get around.

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Posted (edited)
2 hours ago, Sena said:

 

None, I played on LZDoom if it means anything, and I've definitely gotten lag in the past so it's not like I'm just on a high end computer (I'm not).

And I tried to use that video you posted to help me with my navigation, which I should probably mention is bad to begin with, sometimes I get lost so easy you'd think I do it on purpose, but I'd already opened that blue door, and I'd definitely gotten that berserk + supercharge already, even tried turning on noclip to just see if I could find areas I hadn't yet been to that way, but it didn't work any better. If you do a map of this size again, might be worth considering separating into several smaller islands, to at least make it easier to get around.

Okay I see. This is my first attempt at making a massive map xD so yeah the layout probably doesn't have the best navigation, I agree. The idea is to unlock the locked bridge (the one that has red crosses on the floor) and it needs the player to activate 5 switches, like the one I show at the end of the video. Then you can progress through the bridge to the marble halls. I tried to add some script lines with hints that trigger when the player approaches important zones, but I don't know how to do that on vanilla doom format. You know, like "This bridge is locked by 5 nearby switches". Im thinking on new ways to highlight this. For now, I raised the barriers a bit in V.1.2 and added some items under them, so the player knows it is an accessible path.

 

thanks again for the helpful feedback

Edited by DoomRevolver

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39 minutes ago, saibog said:

hi. i love huge maps. played your map in uv, though not finished yet. found your map to be aesthetically pleasing. gameplay was a great pleasure too, with neat ambushes sprinkled thoughout the map. puzzle-wise not too difficult, just the right amount. overall, i found it intriguing that this your third wad. more like the works of a seasoned pro mapper. a big thank you for making such a superb mapset.

Screenshot_Doom_20210410_232046.png

Screenshot_Doom_20210410_232406.png

Hello again Saibog, glad to know you're enjoying it! It looks very good with the graphics you use, hope it don't lag too much. 

And yeah, it's the third one I share but not my third wad literally, I mean I have a bunch of wads of mine but never started publishing em until I made this account. I started this level months ago, more of an experimental project, while I was working on other wads at the same time. And wow, thanks so much for that! I really love level design in videogames. Im looking forward to improve on this with time to make stuff that people enjoy to play.

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Posted (edited)

I didn't get much Doom 64 vibe though. Doom 64 is probably one of my favs, but the architecture is way different from the other Doom games, with large courtyards, chapels, temples, and castles (That's probably why I enjoy it so much)

 

I'll admit, I'm not a huge fan of large maps, because they drain me, and I don't feel like I'm accomplishing anything within the map. But I played through to the end. I didn't find everything. After seeing the direction the map was taken (hitting switches to open up the gates in the long hall) it started feel more cohesive, but a big turn off to me was the lack of detail in the last half. It seemed like you lost inspiration and was in an hurry to finish the map. You had these super detailed areas in the first half, then long wide open halls that lacked design in the second half. So I started getting bored. The rooms looked similar and bland. I will agree with the above statement that there were a LOT of switches. 

 

The first half of the map seemed pretty tight though and how the map kept opening up bits and pieces as you progressed, picking up keys, and hitting the gate switches. I think that half could be a satisfying map in it's own right.  

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Posted (edited)
9 hours ago, JamesBone said:

I didn't get much Doom 64 vibe though. Doom 64 is probably one of my favs, but the architecture is way different from the other Doom games, with large courtyards, chapels, temples, and castles (That's probably why I enjoy it so much)

 

I'll admit, I'm not a huge fan of large maps, because they drain me, and I don't feel like I'm accomplishing anything within the map. But I played through to the end. I didn't find everything. After seeing the direction the map was taken (hitting switches to open up the gates in the long hall) it started feel more cohesive, but a big turn off to me was the lack of detail in the last half. It seemed like you lost inspiration and was in an hurry to finish the map. You had these super detailed areas in the first half, then long wide open halls that lacked design in the second half. So I started getting bored. The rooms looked similar and bland. I will agree with the above statement that there were a LOT of switches. 

 

The first half of the map seemed pretty tight though and how the map kept opening up bits and pieces as you progressed, picking up keys, and hitting the gate switches. I think that half could be a satisfying map in it's own right.  

Hi JamesBone, thanks for writting your opinion, it's very helpful. I'll probably dedicate more time on detailing the second half if I decide to upgrade it. The problem is that I start getting lag once I arrive to the halls, specially at the final arena. I'm unsure on what causes this, since It also happens when I play without monsters. Maybe its my PC or a GZDoom problem, dunno. So I tried not to saturate the last part too much.  Im not experienced with huge maps yet, but It was a fun project to make.

 

Thanks for playing

 

Edited by DoomRevolver

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Posted (edited)

Ooooh! I like me a good huge map! Definitely going to play through this one!... Just played the first bit to where the revenants are released - pretty nice so far. 

 

>>> EDIT <<<

Probably about a third into it currently... So far pretty good. 

Edited by smeghammer

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Posted (edited)
1 hour ago, smeghammer said:

Ooooh! I like me a good huge map! Definitely going to play through this one!... Just played the first bit to where the revenants are released - pretty nice so far. 

Hope you enjoy, it's the first massive map I made so I'd appreciate your opinion to help me improve. I'm having a bit of trouble with lag at the final arenas.

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Posted (edited)

Marax Dungeon

 

Ultra-Violence || Zandronun || Vanilla

 

Status:

Deaths → 1 (Killed by a Revenant)

Saves → 1

 

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Screenshot-Doom-20210410-085549.png

 

The truth is that this map has been interesting to play, it has had quite a few things that had really left me confused for a few moments, since the map in its entirety was a maze complex with a series of Puzzles that had to be solved to progress, But that afterwards he had managed to regain his sense of location, and also get to resolve where the skull switches were to make those pillars of the switch from all the way to the bottom they could all be lifted to move on, and well, I must To say that, visually, I really liked a lot of the places that I had found, despite using basic resources from Doom 2, that does not remove the fact that they look really good with the way things were structured, Like the architecture used in certain parts I liked them a lot, like that part where you can lower platforms interacting with those wooden pillars, or that some floors in the laundry areas They would go down like this all of a sudden when the Marine passed over them, that had brought back memories of another kind of Wad that used that kind of mechanics, and well, the truth is that all this was very good in the end. Where the map stands out, it is in the combats, there are many surprise confrontations, which leaves a lot of doubt about where each monster that is seen every time the Marine presses one of the switches, the vast majority are. of enemies were Hitscanners, but the other great majority consisted of totally resistant enemies, like the Revenants, the Hell Knight, the Archviles, or the Pain Elementals... MANY Pain Elementals with MANY Lost Souls... but well, as if that It was not enough, the map also has different appearances of the Cyberdemon, among them, I could say that the final appearance where the last area is is the worst of all, due to the fact that there are many enemies bothering around the Marine, but that Anyway, having already passed that part, the rest is no longer a problem, due to the fact that also, ammunition and health do not become so scarce in the areas, which is good, because it means that in truth si Notice the concern that you had because the Marine will not fall asleep so quickly. In general everything was very good, the truth was that it was somewhat exhausting to have been playing this map, because it was certainly too big, and what I am trying to avoid lately are the large maps, but I made an exception to yours for the fact you said that your map was based on certain elements of the first Resident Evil, which made me get the attention of your Wad, so, great job that you have done here partner, and I hope that the next maps are a little shorter to play, haha.

Edited by ElPadrecitoCholo

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Just throwing my opinion in here having played the entire thing without looking at any comments in this thread beforehand.

 

The first half of the map was really good. Weapons are introduced at appropriate times and I wasn't flooded with ammo - this meant I had to carefully select my weapons for each encounter, sometimes opting for a melee approach (thanks to the early berserk powerup). Due to the non-linear nature of the map, I was also able to save resources for later use, a good example of this being one of the invulnerability spheres which I used to kill two cyberdemons at point-blank range with the BFG without risking death. I love the intricate layout and interconnectedness of everything.

 

I think that the map does lose momentum after the bridge though: I'm suddenly travelling through halls with very little opposition and the architecture is far simpler than the first half. Sometimes my only threat is a single cacodemon or baron of hell. Some rooms just feel like giant arenas with randomly placed monsters. It almost feels like I've stepped through a portal into a completely different map. Things do improve near the end again when I am suddenly lowered into a pit of lava and have to fight my way out, then deal with 2 cyberdemons - this is the highlight of the second half and provides a fun and frantic finish to the map.

 

Bonus points for including a teleport from the end back to the start for completionists. :-)

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Posted (edited)
18 hours ago, ElPadrecitoCholo said:

Marax Dungeon

 

Ultra-Violence || Zandronun || Vanilla

 

Status:

Deaths → 1 (Killed by a Revenant)

Saves → 1

 

Screenshot-Doom-20210410-060627.png

Screenshot-Doom-20210410-061730.png

Screenshot-Doom-20210410-064437.png

Screenshot-Doom-20210410-072005.png

Screenshot-Doom-20210410-080308.png

Screenshot-Doom-20210410-081601.png

Screenshot-Doom-20210410-083936.png

Screenshot-Doom-20210410-085110.png

Screenshot-Doom-20210410-085446.png

Screenshot-Doom-20210410-085549.png

 

The truth is that this map has been interesting to play, it has had quite a few things that had really left me confused for a few moments, since the map in its entirety was a maze complex with a series of Puzzles that had to be solved to progress, But that afterwards he had managed to regain his sense of location, and also get to resolve where the skull switches were to make those pillars of the switch from all the way to the bottom they could all be lifted to move on, and well, I must To say that, visually, I really liked a lot of the places that I had found, despite using basic resources from Doom 2, that does not remove the fact that they look really good with the way things were structured, Like the architecture used in certain parts I liked them a lot, like that part where you can lower platforms interacting with those wooden pillars, or that some floors in the laundry areas They would go down like this all of a sudden when the Marine passed over them, that had brought back memories of another kind of Wad that used that kind of mechanics, and well, the truth is that all this was very good in the end. Where the map stands out, it is in the combats, there are many surprise confrontations, which leaves a lot of doubt about where each monster that is seen every time the Marine presses one of the switches, the vast majority are. of enemies were Hitscanners, but the other great majority consisted of totally resistant enemies, like the Revenants, the Hell Knight, the Archviles, or the Pain Elementals... MANY Pain Elementals with MANY Lost Souls... but well, as if that It was not enough, the map also has different appearances of the Cyberdemon, among them, I could say that the final appearance where the last area is is the worst of all, due to the fact that there are many enemies bothering around the Marine, but that Anyway, having already passed that part, the rest is no longer a problem, due to the fact that also, ammunition and health do not become so scarce in the areas, which is good, because it means that in truth si Notice the concern that you had because the Marine will not fall asleep so quickly. In general everything was very good, the truth was that it was somewhat exhausting to have been playing this map, because it was certainly too big, and what I am trying to avoid lately are the large maps, but I made an exception to yours for the fact you said that your map was based on certain elements of the first Resident Evil, which made me get the attention of your Wad, so, great job that you have done here partner, and I hope that the next maps are a little shorter to play, haha.

Thanks again, man. I was waiting for your review xD It's always helpful to read a long analysis like this one. I like big maps and I want to improve on them, but I also want to keep making short maps like initiation temple, so don't worry. I'll probably keep that kind of level design (the first half of the level) for future projects. I like looking for keys and completing rooms in different orders 

Edited by DoomRevolver

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8 hours ago, Surreily said:

Just throwing my opinion in here having played the entire thing without looking at any comments in this thread beforehand.

 

The first half of the map was really good. Weapons are introduced at appropriate times and I wasn't flooded with ammo - this meant I had to carefully select my weapons for each encounter, sometimes opting for a melee approach (thanks to the early berserk powerup). Due to the non-linear nature of the map, I was also able to save resources for later use, a good example of this being one of the invulnerability spheres which I used to kill two cyberdemons at point-blank range with the BFG without risking death. I love the intricate layout and interconnectedness of everything.

 

I think that the map does lose momentum after the bridge though: I'm suddenly travelling through halls with very little opposition and the architecture is far simpler than the first half. Sometimes my only threat is a single cacodemon or baron of hell. Some rooms just feel like giant arenas with randomly placed monsters. It almost feels like I've stepped through a portal into a completely different map. Things do improve near the end again when I am suddenly lowered into a pit of lava and have to fight my way out, then deal with 2 cyberdemons - this is the highlight of the second half and provides a fun and frantic finish to the map.

 

Bonus points for including a teleport from the end back to the start for completionists. :-)

Hello Surreily, thanks a lot for your review. My favourite part is also the first half but I'm working on improving the last arenas. The thing is I get lag in those final parts so I tried not to saturate them too much with detail (in my case, the lag remains even playing without monsters) but I guess that's a problem of my PC. If I upload another version of this wad it'll be more detailed.

 

 Thanks for playing

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Posted (edited)
15 hours ago, DoomRevolver said:

(in my case, the lag remains even playing without monsters)

I wonder if that's because the map is extremely large, or the first half is extremely detailed. I wonder if you were able to strike a balance between the two if would improve this issue.

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Posted (edited)

Well, this was quite a journey :) What an amazingly large challenge - I thought the level of difficulty was very comfortable for me (playing on HNTR but I see the number of monsters doesn't differ all that much between skill levels) and I felt the progression was oddly comfortable given the size of the map! Especially as the keys all got used fairly early on, I was expecting it to become a lot harder knowing where to go next, but somehow, you were able to point me the way I was supposed to be going in a subtle but successful way :) The rooms share a lot of similarities - there's only so much you can do with the stock Doom 2 textures - but they're unique enough to be navigable, especially as you take the player through them multiple times and they evolve in different ways. Really well done!

 

 

 

I didn't have any noticeable issues with lag, but I'm playing on a fairly recent desktop computer that's usually an audio workstation.

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On 4/12/2021 at 3:01 AM, DoomRevolver said:

Thanks again, man. I was waiting for your review xD It's always helpful to read a long analysis like this one. I like big maps and I want to improve on them, but I also want to keep making short maps like initiation temple, so don't worry. I'll probably keep that kind of level design (the first half of the level) for future projects. I like looking for keys and completing rooms in different orders 

 

You're welcome partner, it was a pleasure for me to have tested your map, and of course, I will be waiting for your new projects, also, I apologize for the long delay I made to answer you friend... @DoomRevolver

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Posted (edited)
19 hours ago, DavidN said:

Well, this was quite a journey :) What an amazingly large challenge - I thought the level of difficulty was very comfortable for me (playing on HNTR but I see the number of monsters doesn't differ all that much between skill levels) and I felt the progression was oddly comfortable given the size of the map! Especially as the keys all got used fairly early on, I was expecting it to become a lot harder knowing where to go next, but somehow, you were able to point me the way I was supposed to be going in a subtle but successful way :) The rooms share a lot of similarities - there's only so much you can do with the stock Doom 2 textures - but they're unique enough to be navigable, especially as you take the player through them multiple times and they evolve in different ways. Really well done!

 

 

 

I didn't have any noticeable issues with lag, but I'm playing on a fairly recent desktop computer that's usually an audio workstation.

Amazing gameplay you recorded again, thanks again David, it was a lot of fun to watch. This wad took me A LOT of time to make and Im very happy with the result. Glad to see people playing it :D Some people told me there are many switches, but that's totally intentional here, honestly. I like to use lots of switches.

 

Do you have high brightness in video settings? The map is meant to be way darker, at least that's how I see it in GZDoom. I see that most gameplays in UV are veeery bright! 

 

Have a good day!

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