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KubaloBlackMT

Who would be interested in Sandy Petersen making a new Doom map or WAD, much like Sigil.

Who would be interested in Sandy Petersen making a new Doom map or WAD, much like Sigil?  

189 members have voted

  1. 1. Who would be interested in Sandy Petersen making a new Doom map or WAD, much like Sigil. Encompassing his unique style of outside the box level design, sinister traps, and his spooky abstract Hell

    • Yes
      181
    • No
      8


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I'll go one step further, I am all for any and everyone that worked on the original Dooms returning to create new content.

 

That includes Tom Hall, but only if its all unfinished.

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5 hours ago, SlayerOGames666 said:

Sure, but we jest - 

Carmack should release a doom source port...

 

And have it annihilate us all as it becomes self aware??!

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On 4/10/2021 at 10:13 AM, m8f said:

Maybe Sandy meant FPS by saying "Doom", and in that case it could be Quake II.


I think you're right! From all of the interviews and comments I have seen from the Doom 64 devs, is that they would send their stuff to id for approval and critique, but it seemed like John Carmack was the main person interested in it, and the others were busy with other things.

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I'd love to see a new map from Sandy. His levels weren't my favorites overall, Romero's E1 holds that title, but they were still fun, and despite what everyone says, I still love Suburbs. Anything new from the original creators would be welcome, and Sandy made some fun fucking levels. The Chasm is still one of my favorite Doom 2 levels because it's such an ass ache from beginning to end, and it has such a novel and abstract design.

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Sadly, the only legal way to make money on Doom maps is Sigil business model, and that means we cannot pay Sandy in advance. I mean, if we asked Sandy if he really is up to it, and organized a fundraiser campaign. With Sigil business model, there is no guarantee that the author receives the amount of money they planned.

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Id be interested but I feel what we’d get would possibly be vastly different to what he made before. I feel the limitations of older computers actually played a role in shaping/influencing his designs into the especially unique levels we got, (and I cant help but feel (perhaps moreso than some of the other ID mappers here).

 

On the one hand, with less constraints it’d certainly be interesting to see what his creativity would bring, but on the other, part of me cant help but want to him make a map or two in the ‘DTWID’ style. To me thatd potentially be an interesting blast from the past type map.

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It would be interesting, but it's not high on my priority list of the "classic mappers return" projects. Frankly, aside from Map24, Map27, Map28 and E2L6 (neither of them are perfect) I'm not exactly a fan of Sandy Petersen's levels. I appreciate his intuitive style and how he managed to recreate his nightmares in the form of Doom maps, but the graphic design of his maps is just plain nonsensical (and not exactly in an intentional way, but more like he didn't know how to texture a wall for example), and the gameplay is even worse, it's way too trial and error and experimental, and never felt stable.

 

I would love to see at least 3 returns more:

 

1. John Romero with an episode 1 remake: I always thought Sigil was Romero's own take of Inferno, instead of an actual episode 5, and this was one leg of his quintessential mapping style with all the movement restrictions, dark, oppressive areas, damaging floors and puzzles. He made scattered levels of the same stlye for episode 4 and Doom 2, but we got his actual vision of this leg in the form of Sigil. The other leg is the run and gun techbase style he already mastered in episode 1. When he created E1M4b and E1M8b, I already felt I'm back in 1994, but none of them were good fits to the actual episode 1. They are limit removing maps with much richer details and more monsters. IMHO a complete revision would be a wonderful experience, and should be the new standard of techbase style levels.

 

With episode 1 remake and Sigil, I would say, we get a complete adventure of Romero with the expected late 2010s/early 2020s quality. He could do a Doom 2 mapset too, but I don't know: Romero's style just doesn't fit too well with Doom 2, the additional textures, monsters somehow doesn't look that good with his way of mapping, but I could be wrong with it.

 

2. Tom Hall with a finished episode in the style of episode 2: While Sandy made a few interesting stuff with Hall's unfinished maps, I still think the likes of E2M2 or E2M4 would have been even more standout experiences if they were fully created by Hall. Hall was abused a lot by ID in general, and probably he is still feeling sour about his stint there, but IMHO a new mapset by his own vision would not only help his legacy, but I'm pretty sure it would be a great mapset for the ages with some never before seen tricks. Maybe he can cooperate with Sandy in some of the more abstract levels, but it should be a cooperation, not just one man takes the other's unfinished stuff thing. I expect Hall's maps to be more claustrophobic and flat, than Romero's, but this is how episode 2 (and a few of episode 3, ie. E3M3) always worked. It just had a special vibe I haven't seen anywhere else in this game.

 

3. Castle/Squibs style Doom 2 mapset: In terms of Doom 2, I always found No Rest for the Living as the ultimate experience with the updated engine. I love how The Castle and Squibs just added a Build engine style flavour to their maps, and how they created some sense of place and realism in their works. For the updated art and enemy roster, that works IMHO the most effectively as it's a completely different experience to classic Doom, more earthy, more "normal". I think NRFTL is just better than the Sandy-oriented base game or the Casali-stlye Plutonia, the first is way too much filled with experimental things, while the second works more as a "spin-off" series. For me, it would be a wet dream to see the NRFTL creators return again with classic style set, a sequel or "more of the same" of sorts. The boss map was very underwhelming in NRFTL by the way, it feels they had more in the bag, but had to cut the flow at that point. When Castle returned in 2017 with his GZDoom map, he already stamped his authority. But a more classic 9 level or 15 level set with more compatibility is what Doom lovers would appreciate the most.

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I would like sandy's new map to be in a shape of a hand giving a thumbs up surrounded by barrels and warehouse crates.

Edited by Chezza

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I had a dream once where Romero announced “Sigil 2” or whatever and it was a full 32-level megawad collaboration with Tom Hall and Sandy Petersen.

 

I was pretty pissed when I woke up and realized it wasn’t real.

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12 hours ago, sh-h-h said:

It would be interesting, but it's not high on my priority list of the "classic mappers return" projects. Frankly, aside from Map24, Map27, Map28 and E2L6 (neither of them are perfect) I'm not exactly a fan of Sandy Petersen's levels. I appreciate his intuitive style and how he managed to recreate his nightmares in the form of Doom maps, but the graphic design of his maps is just plain nonsensical (and not exactly in an intentional way, but more like he didn't know how to texture a wall for example), and the gameplay is even worse, it's way too trial and error and experimental, and never felt stable.

 

I would love to see at least 3 returns more:

 

1. John Romero with an episode 1 remake: I always thought Sigil was Romero's own take of Inferno, instead of an actual episode 5, and this was one leg of his quintessential mapping style with all the movement restrictions, dark, oppressive areas, damaging floors and puzzles. He made scattered levels of the same stlye for episode 4 and Doom 2, but we got his actual vision of this leg in the form of Sigil. The other leg is the run and gun techbase style he already mastered in episode 1. When he created E1M4b and E1M8b, I already felt I'm back in 1994, but none of them were good fits to the actual episode 1. They are limit removing maps with much richer details and more monsters. IMHO a complete revision would be a wonderful experience, and should be the new standard of techbase style levels.

 

With episode 1 remake and Sigil, I would say, we get a complete adventure of Romero with the expected late 2010s/early 2020s quality. He could do a Doom 2 mapset too, but I don't know: Romero's style just doesn't fit too well with Doom 2, the additional textures, monsters somehow doesn't look that good with his way of mapping, but I could be wrong with it.

 

2. Tom Hall with a finished episode in the style of episode 2: While Sandy made a few interesting stuff with Hall's unfinished maps, I still think the likes of E2M2 or E2M4 would have been even more standout experiences if they were fully created by Hall. Hall was abused a lot by ID in general, and probably he is still feeling sour about his stint there, but IMHO a new mapset by his own vision would not only help his legacy, but I'm pretty sure it would be a great mapset for the ages with some never before seen tricks. Maybe he can cooperate with Sandy in some of the more abstract levels, but it should be a cooperation, not just one man takes the other's unfinished stuff thing. I expect Hall's maps to be more claustrophobic and flat, than Romero's, but this is how episode 2 (and a few of episode 3, ie. E3M3) always worked. It just had a special vibe I haven't seen anywhere else in this game.

 

3. Castle/Squibs style Doom 2 mapset: In terms of Doom 2, I always found No Rest for the Living as the ultimate experience with the updated engine. I love how The Castle and Squibs just added a Build engine style flavour to their maps, and how they created some sense of place and realism in their works. For the updated art and enemy roster, that works IMHO the most effectively as it's a completely different experience to classic Doom, more earthy, more "normal". I think NRFTL is just better than the Sandy-oriented base game or the Casali-stlye Plutonia, the first is way too much filled with experimental things, while the second works more as a "spin-off" series. For me, it would be a wet dream to see the NRFTL creators return again with classic style set, a sequel or "more of the same" of sorts. The boss map was very underwhelming in NRFTL by the way, it feels they had more in the bag, but had to cut the flow at that point. When Castle returned in 2017 with his GZDoom map, he already stamped his authority. But a more classic 9 level or 15 level set with more compatibility is what Doom lovers would appreciate the most.

I'll admit some of Sandy's stuff is a little odd, like how pretty much most of the Hell levels in DOOM II don't look like Hell. I think I've gotten attracted to them due to knowing about Sandy's knowledge of horror, which I had in mind when looking at his levels, which I had then assumed were meant to be abstract on purpose, instead of just some random plaster of windows in the beginning of MAP21. NRFTL is actually my favorite wad of all time because It came with the Xbox arcade version which was my first experience with DOOM II, and also because of how big the maps were, which for a while, had no idea was due to an updated engine.

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I already paid Sandy for his bad maps when I bought the original games. I would not pay for anymore of them.

 

21 hours ago, m8f said:

Sadly, the only legal way to make money on Doom maps is Sigil business model, and that means we cannot pay Sandy in advance. I mean, if we asked Sandy if he really is up to it, and organized a fundraiser campaign. With Sigil business model, there is no guarantee that the author receives the amount of money they planned.

 

It is not illegal to pay someone to make Doom maps.

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There seems to be some confusion about which American McGee map is the worst. I see people saying E4M1 (really well designed nail-biter of a map that has a good sense of progression and classy texturing) and Map07 (the only proper deathmatch arena in the iwads) are his worst, despite being great maps.

 

The objectively correct answer to this question is E4M4. Bland, forgettable, no challenge, textured 100% in the most boring of the brown textures, and generally looks like a practice map someone would pop out in 2 hours. It’s by far the low point of his otherwise enjoyable mapping output!

 

Also I’ve bugged Tom Hall at least twice about making new Doom maps and he seemed pretty warm to the idea, but was worried that his maps would (once again) be overshadowed by Romero’s maps. I hope that doesn’t prevent him from doing it some time..

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It would be really interesting, believe it or not, but  I like his "abstract kind of hell". I mean, the level design wasn't the best, but he put the effort into those maps and sometimes his abstract designs are good. The first part of the chasm is rather interesting too, sadly the catwalks kill the map.

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2 hours ago, Doomkid said:

The objectively correct answer to this question is E4M4. Bland, forgettable, no challenge, textured 100% in the most boring of the brown textures, and generally looks like a practice map someone would pop out in 2 hours. It’s by far the low point of his otherwise enjoyable mapping output!

 

Actually E3M5 is all of that too but more annoying thanks to the teleporters lol. E4M9 and E4M5 also have weaker and easier combat than E4M4, even if their layout is better.

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How about a Sandy Petersen + Tom Hall collaboration?   Kinda interesting as it's happened before without both working at id at the same time.  

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On 4/13/2021 at 4:40 AM, Doomkid said:

Also I’ve bugged Tom Hall at least twice about making new Doom maps and he seemed pretty warm to the idea, but was worried that his maps would (once again) be overshadowed by Romero’s maps. I hope that doesn’t prevent him from doing it some time..

 

Think most people would be happy if he made maps without comparing himself to others.  All of them bring something unique to the table.

 

Sandy expressed similar sentiments in a YT comment, that he'd be scared to dip his oar into the waters because of the quality of today's maps - which begs the question, which new mapsets has he played?

 

But since both have expressed some tentative interest, i'd be surprised if nothing came out of it.

 

PS: i love E4M1.

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