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Michael Jensen

Punisher 2 and Greek.wad (Two lost Casali levels?) EDIT: Found, along with MUCH more!

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18 minutes ago, P41R47 said:

my friend, is thanks to you that this long forgotten treasures were found.

Thanks a lot. But @thestarrover is the real hero here :)

 

18 minutes ago, P41R47 said:

my god, did i really read that?

An unreleased tnt evilution map?

I always wondered where were them!

I know, right? It's a MAP30 though, so I'm not sure how it's gonna turn out. Still a great historic discovery.

 

Actually, if I recall correctly, Dario stated in an interview there were 4 Casali maps that got rejected from TNT, so...

47 minutes ago, roadworx said:

i wonder how much more there is to find?

... there might still be much more. Unless they put them in Plutonia or something. 

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2 minutes ago, A.H. Sankhatayan said:

Thanks a lot. But @thestarrover is the real hero here :)

No doubt about that, but if you didn't started the thread, probably @thestarrover may had never joined to this forums ;)

You both are heroes in my eyes :)

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1 hour ago, A.H. Sankhatayan said:

Thanks a lot. But @thestarrover is the real hero here :)

 

I know, right? It's a MAP30 though, so I'm not sure how it's gonna turn out. Still a great historic discovery.

 

Actually, if I recall correctly, Dario stated in an interview there were 4 Casali maps that got rejected from TNT, so...

... there might still be much more. Unless they put them in Plutonia or something. 

 

59 minutes ago, P41R47 said:

No doubt about that, but if you didn't started the thread, probably @thestarrover may had never joined to this forums ;)

You both are heroes in my eyes :)

the hero here is @A.H. Sankhatayan. He created this thread! I found these wads a couple of years ago and I didn't know they were so rare! I am quite a beginner in the doom world and everything I know comes from this forum!

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1 hour ago, Diabolución said:

hunted.zip

 

As a normal ZIP, for convenience.

 

Original timestamps or bust!

How can I open the original .arj files? The unarchiver on Mac doesn't work! Thanks!

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1 hour ago, A.H. Sankhatayan said:

know, right? It's a MAP30 though, so I'm not sure how it's gonna turn out. Still a great historic discovery.

I just played it.
Its good!
Not puzzleish and epic like Last Call, but No Mercy seems like a good Ios map to end Evilution.
If the last fight of No Mercy was use in place of the one on Last Call, it would had been far better.

Wonder why they didn't thought of that?
Maybe they just wanted complete maps but only one author?
Maybe it was a little too similar to the one on Doom 2?

Would love if @tmustaine or other member of Team TNT on the old days could answer this.

Anyway, great find!!!

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Just to be 110% sure, I've uploaded an archive of every last file featured throughout all of the zips in this thread, removed any duplicates, ensured timestamps are preserved, and sorted the collection somewhat. Everything is in a ready-to-play state:

 

https://doomshack.org/uploads/D_CASALI.ZIP

 

Amazing finds, thanks to all of you!

Edited by Doomkid

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Dario if you're out there somewhere, please make more doom maps. Make Plutonia 2, the reboot that makes all previous sequels not canon

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8 hours ago, Diabolución said:

 

(Even more than usual) Frikazo mode engaged.

 

I did use ARJ via Termux on my Android smartphone.

 

 

Oh my God! A very tricky files! Good job and thanks a lot for the .zip file! :)

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5 hours ago, Doomkid said:

Just to be 110% sure, I've uploaded an archive of every last file featured throughout all of the zips in this thread, removed any duplicates, ensured timestamps are preserved, and sorted the collection somewhat. Everything is in a ready-to-play state:

 

https://doomshack.org/uploads/D_CASALI.ZIP

 

Amazing finds, thanks to all of you!

I just downloaded your archive. Well done @Doomkid! :)

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17 hours ago, A.H. Sankhatayan said:

Actually, if I recall correctly, Dario stated in an interview there were 4 Casali maps that got rejected from TNT, so...

Wait, TNT had several more map options from the Casali brothers and STILL included Habitat?! What the heck?!

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1 hour ago, Faceman2000 said:

Wait, TNT had several more map options from the Casali brothers and STILL included Habitat?! What the heck?!

I watched the interview again and Dario stated that they were probably removed after id bought the rights to Evilution. Around the 20 minute mark. 

Spoiler

 

Considering Habitat is what it is, it may have been a rushed replacement due to changes demanded by id. Who knows. 

In retrospect, it's a shame the development process of Final Doom is very poorly documented. I don't think we'll be able to get in touch with Christopher Buteau to ask him about Habitat. 

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2 hours ago, A.H. Sankhatayan said:

I don't think we'll be able to get in touch with Christopher Buteau to ask him about Habitat. 

I wonder if he knows his map is the most hated level from the IWADs. XD

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What's this? More lost Doom maps by the Casali Brothers? This is quite a rare find! I've decided to check them out, and since some of them are wads you can download from the idgames archive, and with Vault_fd.wad being Requiem Map 23, I only played through the ones that aren't there, and here's my analysis of them:

 

Blade.wad

Fairly short map, presumably by Dario, that could fit as an opener, but don't be fooled, it's a rather difficult map. Start has you facing off a group of cacodemons that are hidden by a wall that opens after you step out of your starting point, and you get a super shotgun with some ammo for them. The courtyard area has lost souls and pain elementals hidden behind fake walls, and while the lost souls can come out, the pain elementals can't. There is a passage that will lead you to the blue key, but watch out as this is a Casali map, so expect nasty and dangerous traps, and this trap involves elongated elevators that lower revealing squads of shotgunners. Stepping on the "teleporter" at the end opens a wall containing chaingunners and pinkies and also a blue key. Next after riding the elevator down to the blue key door you'll see a switch guarded by some mancubi, but attacking them alerts revenants that will spawn in the courtyard and they'll be guarding the red key. There's a megasphere tucked away from the courtyard, but be careful not to take too much damage when taking care of the revenants, because you'll need to be in good health for the final area which opens after hitting the switch guarded by an arachnotron behind the red key door, in which there's an arch-vile and some mancubi. Kill the arch-vile, then race for the rocket launcher and the switch that lowers the walls revealing a cyberdemon, including another switch it is guarding which will lower another wall revealing barons. Thankfully, you can get the monsters to infight. Like any of the other maps by the Casali brothers, this is clearly not meant for amateur players. While they can give this map a shot, it's still very tough.

 

Nomercy.wad

So this is one of the rejected TNT maps, and looking at the architecture, I can tell that it is by Dario. Given how four of the Casalis' TNT maps were rejected to their length and difficulty, I was expecting a huge map in the same vein as his other three or somewhere in the same league as Drake O'Brien's trilogy, but surprisingly, this isn't a huge map. Despite being shorter than even TNT's Map 30: Last Call and having no platform puzzle, it's still fairly challenging though, particularly the Icon of Sin fight since you have to be on a very precise position to aim your rockets while you're on the elevator and at the top, otherwise the rockets will just collide with the passage walls, and on top of that, Romero's head is protected by a crusher, so you must be careful not to waste your rockets and time your shots right so that the rockets will go through while the crusher is not protecting Romero's head, easier said than done since you have all these monsters spawning in. Just be sure you kill the arch-vile and revenant first before you can attempt to attack the Icon of Sin as they guard it zealously. Since there's more monsters in co-op with the text file mentioning additional groups of revenants and a cyberdemon, I can imagine that it must be very brutal on that mode. As expected, it's on the Map 30 slot, so warp there via the warp level command or the idclev cheat.

 

Fort.wad

Although this wad is prescribed to be for co-op, it is doable on single-player. However, be prepared for some really brutal fights as this is a pressure cooker. Tons of heavyweight monsters including revenants, mancubi, arachnotrons, barons, hell knights, and even clouds of cacodemons and pain elementals that will have you constantly running for cover in your sieged fort and recovering your limited supply of health and armour whenever you're hurting or running out of ammo. Spiderdemons and cyberdemons also come into play, but things really get crazy as you'll eventually have to tackle another Icon of Sin scenario, and this time, aside from a crusher, a cyberdemon may be guarding Romero's head. so while you're firing your shots at the target, beware of incoming rockets. Really difficult map, and it's placed on the Map 08 slot, so again, warp through either command or the level cheat. Looks to be like a Dario map.

 

Force.wad

A nice area with a strange teleportation sequence, and invisible stairs to the plasma gun. New textures, some of which becomes Plutonia, but one is undoubtedly found in the Memento Mori duology. Lots of places to hide and escape for deathmatchers, but you can get trapped by taking a teleporter to the platform in the battleground where you can collect the the BFG. By the looks of the map, it seems to be by Dario.

 

Greek.wad

Here is the original map by Milo which Dario reworked and repopulated to make into the slaughterwad Seej. Fairly large city with grand architecture and emphasis on exploration, basically a miniature version of Plutonia's Map 29: Odyssey of Noises, though made solely for deathmatch.

 

Maniac.wad

Very well designed map, with various teleporters that take you all around. Don't fall in the blood pool as it does a great deal of damage, but you'll need to jump in to collect the goodies below including taking a teleporter to the megasphere. Gets reworked in Telefrag.wad to include some "cheating chambers" as described. It looks like both maps were designed by Milo.

 

Overkill.wad

Not much to say about this map, other than its fairly small, and despite having mancubi out in the windows, they can't really hurt you as even if they're alerted, they won't be able to aim their fireballs at you. Love the attention to detail in the level design. Not to sure who designed the map, but it probably looks like it's by Dario.

 

Small.wad

As the name suggests, it's a small deathmatch arena taking place in some fort surrounded by by a brown moat, and in the moat is an elevator which lowers to a pit with ammo if you step on it. For some reason, the circular stairs share the same floor texture as the moat. Presumably by Dario.

 

Teleslop.wad

Small deathmatch map with four structures in a sort of symmetrical area. Make sure you blow up the exploding barrel or you'll teleport right on it and blow yourself up. Plutonia and MM/MM2's textures are present. Most likely by Milo.

 

So that's my analysis on the unreleased maps. Not much to say for Punisher 2 and Seej 2 only that they have more monsters, with some from the first releases removed or replaced with different ones. These maps really show more of the Casalis as being the forerunners of Yonatan Donner, Haggay Niv, Anders Johnsen, Erik Alm, Gusta and Method as their output consists of insanely difficult maps, some with nasty monster placement, and some being pure slaughter. Either way, you really need to find a good strategy to take on the opposition in order to survive and beat the maps. As for their deathmatch maps, most of them are nicely done and even in single player you can just look around to enjoy the architecture and design. Since Nomercy.wad is a TNT reject, that means that there are 3 other maps, likely Milo's, that are still to be discovered, though I believe they could be the ones that made it into Plutonia. Speaking of the deathmatch maps, a few of them were part of The Best series, are they are:

 

Arena - The Best 3

Reeper - The Best 4

Sniper - The Best 1

 

All in all, great set of maps and a must for those who enjoy the Casali Brothers' maps and Plutonia. Thanks for sharing all this.

Edited by T-Rex

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2 hours ago, T-Rex said:

Like any of the other maps by the Casali brothers, this is clearly not meant for amateur players.

I absolutely agree. For a not very skilled and beginner player like me Plutonia is a real nightmare. Strong enemies since the beginning, traps and, I don't remember now in which map, also an invisible bridge that drove me crazy. :)

2 hours ago, T-Rex said:

Since Nomercy.wad is a TNT reject, that means that there are 3 other maps, likely Milo's, that are still to be discovered

I hope so. if Nomercy.wad  is  appeared , maybe also the other 3 will be discovered, one day....

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|

| * 25 Years ago, Casali said:

| ...as I’ve thrown in a legion of revenants etc....

|

 

LOL

 

|

| * Translation:

|...as I’ve thrown in almost infinite revenants etc..

|

Edited by Gokuma

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On 4/29/2021 at 10:14 AM, A.H. Sankhatayan said:

I watched the interview again and Dario stated that they were probably removed after id bought the rights to Evilution. Around the 20 minute mark. 

  Reveal hidden contents

 

Considering Habitat is what it is, it may have been a rushed replacement due to changes demanded by id. Who knows. 

In retrospect, it's a shame the development process of Final Doom is very poorly documented. I don't think we'll be able to get in touch with Christopher Buteau to ask him about Habitat. 

 

so you daydream of getting in touch with Christopher Buteau so that you can ask him, in your own words, why his map sucks. this habitat hate cult leaves a lot to be desired 

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1 hour ago, kmxexii said:

 

so you daydream of getting in touch with Christopher Buteau so that you can ask him, in your own words, why his map sucks. this habitat hate cult leaves a lot to be desired 

English isn't my first language but I don't see how I could have implied anything like that. 

I simply meant that it would be nice knowing more about Final Doom's development. I only mentioned Habitat in relation to the comment I was responding to. 

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On a more positive note, they have parsed out D_CASALI.ZIP. New contents / variants:

 

BLADE.WAD - WadArchive

GREEK.WAD - WadArchive

SMALL.WAD - WadArchive

TELEFRAG.WAD - WadArchive

FORT.WAD - WadArchive

HORROR.WAD - WadArchive

NOMERCY.WAD - WadArchive

HUNTED.WAD - WadArchive

PUNISHER.WAD - WadArchive

PUNISHT.WAD - WadArchive

VAULT_FD.WAD - WadArchive

 

===

 

If you like this level, go and get Final Doom - "Doom2 Unleashed" (from VAULT_FD.TXT)

Doom 2 Unleashed - The Doom Wiki at DoomWiki.org

https://www.doomworld.com/forum/post/909780/

 

What a coincidence (unironically said).

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These wads are a really cool discovery and I wanted to share it with other Doomers, so I decided to make a little video about it!

 

 

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On 5/1/2021 at 7:30 PM, A.H. Sankhatayan said:

English isn't my first language but I don't see how I could have implied anything like that. 

I simply meant that it would be nice knowing more about Final Doom's development. I only mentioned Habitat in relation to the comment I was responding to. 

 

the tone of my post was unnecessarily crass but "Considering Habitat is what it is" is a diplomatically vague phrase and while it neither agrees nor disagrees with the poster that you were replying to, your supposition / musing of it as a potentially rushed replacement suggested that you were on some level of agreement. From this position, I rudely (I apologize) inferred that any questions that one would ask Buteau would naturally try to reveal the story of why Habitat is what it is.

 

While we're musing on Final Doom's dev history and the Casalis' place in this, I find it interesting to note that the original plot of The Plutonia Experiment as it was conceived of as a freeware release - immortalized here - includes a time travel element. Coincidentally, the incongruous "Pharaoh" from Evilution involves a trip to a DoomCute-ish Egypt. Dario's interview for 5 Years of Doom does not suggest that any overlap existed between the two projects, of course, and his recollection probably would have been at its best at this point in time, but Ty Halderman's 5 Years of Doom interview explicitly says that some of the Evilution rejects wound up in Plutonia. I've come to wonder whether some levels originally developed for the freeware Plutonia were submitted to Evilution but I admit that it's almost certainly a fantasy born out of coincidence given the currently available recollections.

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The Quantum Accelerator at the start of Map28 and its id homages seem to strongly imply it was meant for Plutonia. I still feel like a dummy for not realizing it myself until decino pointed it out in his playthrough.

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On 4/28/2021 at 9:55 PM, A.H. Sankhatayan said:

Thanks a lot. But @thestarrover is the real hero here :)

 

I know, right? It's a MAP30 though, so I'm not sure how it's gonna turn out. Still a great historic discovery.

 

Actually, if I recall correctly, Dario stated in an interview there were 4 Casali maps that got rejected from TNT, so...

... there might still be much more. Unless they put them in Plutonia or something. 

 

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On 4/28/2021 at 9:55 PM, A.H. Sankhatayan said:

this is awsome

 

 

 

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