RAY MOHAWK 2 - Development Thread

[Doomkid]

22 hours ago, Kurogachii said:

¿Will it have secret levels or just the 20 levels?

 

Edit: This looks sweet!

Thanks! I'm not dedicating any secret levels for now, but the slots are open and may get used "just in case"

 

21 hours ago, Noiser said:

I'm getting excited with this project.
If someone drop a slot again, I would like to take it please :-)

Awesome, you're first in line for any potential drops!

 

18 hours ago, Moustachio said:

Temple del Sol

This looks amazing! Haven't got a chance to play through it properly yet, but glad to see that rd has left some very valuable input. I have some thoughts on walter and sluggard's maps as well, so I'll leave some feedback for all 3 in not too long!

 

6 hours ago, Azure_Horror said:

I think that for now it will be enough to give double tracers and restrict BFG to 25 cells per shot. Some further adjustments can be made later.

This means the player will have 16 BFG shots with a full ammo compliment. In regular Doom, the player gets 15, so this seems fair to me.

 

1 hour ago, The BMFG said:

Better Version Of My Map Out Now! 

 

better traps and higher difficulty! https://www.mediafire.com/file/eu8xcpr8d5pekuj/vnight.wad/file @rd. Try This Out 

Nice, I'll give this a whirl alongside the Moustachio's map in a bit here

 

1 hour ago, NeedHealth said:

Could do a map05 by tuesday at the latest if the slot opens up.

Alrighty, I've got you second in line after Noiser if/when a new slot opens up!

[Doomkid]

On 5/26/2021 at 2:47 AM, Walter confetti said:

A first alpha of my map is ready for playtesting! There's some bugs such as some spots whit a DRAWSEGS error (that i start personally to hate), but it's ready to go for me

I really like this map overall Walter, but one thing I'm kind of uneasy with is that big plain outside barrier wall. Compared to the rest of the map, it just feels a little ugly. Even something like adding a few parts that jut out a bit and have a different texture could vary it up a little bit. I have this idea that at the corners and the halfway point of each wall, there's a 128x128 ModWall block, just to break it up visually.

 

The only thing you really need to be concerned about is the visplane limit, or other things that cause crashes - some of my favorite 90s wads exceed the drawsegs limit, things limit, and savegame buffer, and I'm fine with that same thing being applied here. I don't want those stringent limits to impede creativity too much, so as long as there's no crashes, it's totally fine. Very fun map btw!

 

On 5/2/2021 at 12:36 AM, Cheesewheel said:

Here is my first draft, no difficulty settings implemented at the moment and only 1 player start. It's on MAP03.

So I love this map (and the midi choice), but two things rd mentioned that I strongly agree with are the points about the cell cannon being easy to miss and the actual act of grabbing it being a little uneventful. If a player happens to turn right rather than left from the starting gate, I think a good way to encourage them towards the cell cannon would be a teleporter, perhaps somewhere near the far wall, by the imps on surfboards (rofl). That way, even if they happen to take the "wrong" turn out the gate, there's still a strong impetus to enter that tele and arrive somewhere right by the cell cannon. Maybe even make the tele 2-way, as an easy way to get from one side of the map to the other quickly. Once you actually grab the cell cannon, maybe a few barons and a rev or two could spawn it to make it a fun event. That's my 2c, very enjoyable map.

 

23 hours ago, Moustachio said:

Here's my submission for Map04.

This is such a good map. rd covered everything already in her review, but I still just wanted to pipe up and say I love it. Also, don't worry about the sprite limits. 99% of people are gonna be using a port, so as long as it doesn't crash vanilla, it's totally fine. Also, this might get moved back further in the set, again for reasons rd already stated. Nice work!

 

On 5/24/2021 at 7:42 AM, SilverMiner said:

It looks too simple imho.

This is a sky I took from ERampage3d (RR Eduke3d port)

It could be made into nice sunset sky (the truecolor source png and the mohawk-paletted 256x128 attempts are below)=

I like this sky, I might use it as an alternative sky people can set during the mapinfo making process. At the end, I think I'll have a selection of 6-7 daytime skies and sunset skies (depending on which half of the set the map is in) and let mappers choose which specific sky they think suits their map best. They'll all be similar, of course.

 

5 hours ago, The BMFG said:

Better Version Of My Map Out Now!

This is definitely an improvement over the first draft, but I still think it's just a bit too plain and rough around the edges. It still feels like a bit of a newbie map. If you take a look at sluggard, moustachio, voltcom and all the other users submissions, they're just a bit more clean refined when it comes to design, they're more fleshed out. It's not a bad map, you have some great potential, but as it is I don't think it fits in that well with the rest of the submissions yet.

Edited May 29, 2021 by Doomkid

[The BMFG]

5 hours ago, Doomkid said:

 

 

This is definitely an improvement over the first draft, but I still think it's just a bit too plain and rough around the edges. It still feels like a bit of a newbie map. If you take a look at sluggard, moustachio, voltcom and all the other users submissions, they're just a bit more clean refined when it comes to design, they're more fleshed out. It's not a bad map, you have some great potential, but as it is I don't think it fits in that well with the rest of the submissions yet.

think you could tell me HOW i could fix these problems?

[Walter confetti]

5 hours ago, Doomkid said:

I really like this map overall Walter, but one thing I'm kind of uneasy with is that big plain outside barrier wall. Compared to the rest of the map, it just feels a little ugly. Even something like adding a few parts that jut out a bit and have a different texture could vary it up a little bit. I have this idea that at the corners and the halfway point of each wall, there's a 128x128 ModWall block, just to break it up visually.

 

The only thing you really need to be concerned about is the visplane limit, or other things that cause crashes - some of my favorite 90s wads exceed the drawsegs limit, things limit, and savegame buffer, and I'm fine with that same thing being applied here. I don't want those stringent limits to impede creativity too much, so as long as there's no crashes, it's totally fine. Very fun map btw!

 

Thanks, I'll see to fix it when I return home...

[Doomkid]

11 hours ago, The BMFG said:

think you could tell me HOW i could fix these problems?

Sure, the main thing would be to develop some more map making experience. All the submissions I've received so far are from seasoned mapping veterans, so the bar has been set pretty high. You can actually check their maps out in the latest beta and just compare them side-by-side to see how the length of their maps, level of detail, approach to visuals/mood in general, and balance of gameplay is compared to your own map.

 

When it comes to the map being plain and rough around the edges, I'm referring to things like the really cramped sense of scale and the bits that look very "1995" compared to the other submissions. For example you have a lot of strange angles and shapes going on, like the door near the far right of the map being a strange skewed triangle shape with a misaligned texture, in a somewhat circular room that has lots of other strange angles and stuff jutting out. You'd pretty much need to re-shape and re-touch everything that's here so far to give it less of an abstract, off-the-wall feeling.

 

In addition to the scale being a bit off and the strange shapes/angles being common through the map, there's other stuff that gives away the newbie nature of the map like the big square startan room that you teleport to. It's very square and plain, plus the little building on the north end of the map has really strange jagged shapes on the edge of the balcony, and there's a door opening right into the sky (a dead giveaway of newbie mapping). In a speedmapping event, or maybe an event specifically targeting newer mappers this would be no problem, but it's just such a stark contrast to the rest of the maps, making it feel out of place.

 

The map also takes just over 2 minutes to complete. It would need to be at minimum 4 times the length for the slot it's in, and that's extra length with a more refined approach to visuals and such. It just has the feeling of a newbie map to it's core. Which is not a bad thing, everyone starts from that point and it really reminds me of some of my older maps. It's good to make stuff like this and keep practicing and learning! That's not really the point of this specific project though, that's more in the wheelhouse of Dubbag and BluePineapple's speedmapping events.

 

Basically the whole reason I added this in the first post:

please note that there will be quality control when it comes to submissions. It won't be

super stringent, but I want this wad to end up as a reasonably high quality product, so please consider that if you're new to the craft or not very experienced.

..is because I didn't want newbie mappers to submit a map fragment, then end up feeling dejected if their submissions aren't up to snuff. That's not what I want by any means, but at the same time I have a responsibility to the other project participants to keep the bar pretty high when it comes to map quality. You basically just need to keep practicing! and I mean that in an encouraging way.

[Azure_Horror]

Is it anavoidable that flamethrower flames and archvile flames look the same?

Replacing the archvile fire with something distinct will greatly improve readability in chaotic fights. Right now it is pretty hard to track archvile fire while going ham with a flamethrower. Another unintended reason for the blaster being super clutch.

[Pixel Fiend]

Just booted up Chocolate Doom and I'm absolutely blown away by what I'm playing. I love everything Ray Mohawk 2 has to offer, an instant classic. I hope that gaming sites will report on this magnificent creation to the people outside of Doom fandom.

[Doomkid]

Here's a new beta that fixes a lot of stuff I absent-mindedly broke in the previous build:

 

(old link removed)

 

current - https://doomshack.org/uploads/mohawk2h.zip

 

- BFG emits two volleys of tracers rather than just one (again). Cost per shot has gone up to 25 rather than 20.

- Flamethrower damage restored. I guess I lowered it at some stage while doing the rebalancing?! I have no idea why I did that.. but it's fixed now!

 

Still largely incomplete of course. The BMFG's mapslot is relinquished and is now in @Noiser's hands. Very keen to see what you do with your slot, Noiser. (though of course, if The BMFG returns with a god-tier map, I can happily add it in as a secret map)

 

..Some great progress here! Obviously still lots to do, but we're definitely making our way there steadily.

Edited June 2, 2021 by Doomkid

[Doomkid]

3 hours ago, Azure_Horror said:

Is it anavoidable that flamethrower flames and archvile flames look the same?

The flamethrower is super powerful, the chaos of trying to work out what flames are your own is just a part of the challenge these weapons bring. Also there aren't enough frames in vanilla for it to use it's own dedicated sprite without gutting something else, but I don't think I would anyway, or at most I'd give the AV's their gold fire back.

 

1 hour ago, game said:

Just booted up Chocolate Doom and I'm absolutely blown away by what I'm playing. I love everything Ray Mohawk 2 has to offer, an instant classic. I hope that gaming sites will report on this magnificent creation to the people outside of Doom fandom.

Makes me extremely happy to hear you say that! Glad you like what you see.

[Aurelius]

 

Download map.

 

Title: Poster Boy of Mayhem
Authors: Aurelius & rd
Map slot: 17
Music track: "Athletic Theme" from Super Mario World, composed by Koji Kondo and MIDIfied by Doomkid
Difficulty settings: Implemented
Tested with: Choco(renderlimits), Crispy, Eternity, GZDoom
Playtesters (alongside me and rd): Nine Inch Heels, Tango, RonnieJamesDiner & Egg Boy

 

As my first collaboration with rd, we set out to do something fun with possibly the most OP vanilla weapon set known to the community. It took some time to get accustomed to the strengths and weaknesses(?) of the arsenal, but I think we found a nice composition for a fast paced and occasionally quite challenging map. We decided to focus mostly on the blaster and cell cannon, with a little dip into the flamethrower for good measure. The map should be fine wrt drawsegs/visplanes and sprite limit (surprisingly), but as always there might be hidden corners that expose unwanted overflows.

Hope you guys enjoy! Any feedback is appreciated :)

[Doomkid]

Just finished the map, what a blast! Really fun stuff.

 

I got through the map with 4 or 5 deaths since it's a bit tricky, but I was having a good time. Everything was going mostly as planned, other than a few hiccups. Then I got to the Cyberdemon/Arch-Vile "timed arena". Good lord, you are gonna want to target those archies first, but the fact is, if there's more than 2 cybers left alive, you're gonna be toast. Even though this is where I got my ass handed to me again and again, I loved it. Very appropriate for a super late slot in the set. And that ending shot.. Just beautiful.

 

That Mario MIDI suits the level well, but I think I might double it in length and add the Yoshi drums for the second loop. It took me about 13 minutes (well, not counting deaths I guess so even longer) and I just felt like the auditory variety will probably help. Just a minor change!

 

Here's the updated beta, now with you and rd's map included (slot 14 in the beta but will ofc be moved to 17 by the time the wad fills out)

 

(old link removed)

 

Nice work, and very glad you waited til the weapons were un-crapified to release it.

Edited June 2, 2021 by Doomkid

[DFF]

Almost finished with my map but seems like I've passed the savegame overflow buffer which is a shame. I'd like to keep it below that even if maps are accepted with the overflow. What is the best way to cut down on save size? is it better to reduce the thing count or to remove excess lines, vetrices, and sectors?

[baja blast rd.]

1 hour ago, DFF said:

Almost finished with my map but seems like I've passed the savegame overflow buffer which is a shame. I'd like to keep it below that even if maps are accepted with the overflow. What is the best way to cut down on save size? is it better to reduce the thing count or to remove excess lines, vetrices, and sectors?

 

The savegame buffer overflow is commonly ignored in vanilla. To my knowledge, even "back in the day" vanilla maps often broke it. 

[DFF]

Anyways, savegame overflow or not here is my map. I made several design changes to this map and while not fully satisfied with how it turned out, I am happy with how it turned out in the end. Playtesting would be appreciated. I have fully tested it but there may be some errors still, and the difficulty may be a tad high.

Title: Mall Rats
Author: DFF
Map slot: 19
Music track: "Abobo" from Battletoads and Double Dragon
Difficulty settings: Implemented, Medium and Easy untested
Tested with: Choco(renderlimits), PrBoom+

Link

Edited May 31, 2021 by DFF

[snapshot]

Just a small fix to tighten up ammo destribution a little and fix a software renderer glitch in the red key room, link is the same as before.

Edited May 31, 2021 by sluggard

[baja blast rd.]

19 hours ago, DFF said:

Anyways, savegame overflow or not here is my map. I made several design changes to this map and while not fully satisfied with how it turned out, I am happy with how it turned out in the end. Playtesting would be appreciated. I have fully tested it but there may be some errors still, and the difficulty may be a tad high.

Title: Mall Rats

Brilliant map.

 

Spoiler

 

I especially loved the second main area and all the combat that takes place there, how it's this big knot that you can run around fighting seemingly everything and using almost every weapon in the arsenal to good effect. It is really chaotic and messy and fun. My favorite little thing might be the secret blue key -- the mechanism for revealing it, and not just the resources it gives you but the fact that you can use that little room to hide later on. The creativity in the aesthetic design is top-notch. Idk why but I really loved how the secret cell cannon was suddenly an Egyptian crypt.

 

Some notes: 

 

- The early door tagged 4 is a bottleneck I felt encouraged to camp and clear out, since you can't return without the YK (I didn't know this at first and actually had to reload a save to use the invul secret). So that involved awkwardly clearing out everything inside while repeatedly reopening the door.

 

- My first time around, I accidentally killed a cacodemon on top of the autoshotgun, so I didn't even know it was there at first. That would be preventable with a tiny, literally 1-pixel wide blocking line in front of it, which won't affect anything else.

 

- The very last cyb fight seems scarce on health/armor. In my first playthrough, I ended up with the cybs forcing me into the crate room at the north of that area, where I painstakingly sniped them down through the crates. I would have been bolder had there been more armor, but without it, my first thought was "wait how in the world am I going to handle this?" It actually isn't rough at all, as long as you herd the cybs and keep them in the central space they teleport into while circling that loop, but in the chaos of the fight initially unfolding it's hard to predict that. (It is also cool how you can get two different fights based on what order you press the switches.)

 

[Walter confetti]

https://www.mediafire.com/file/0qhtkk3kpjxyuc7/wa-cresta.wad/file fixed version

[ignatiOS]

Is it alright if I post the basic layout without any fancy visuals? I want to get feedback on gameplay and the layout before going Knee Deep in the visuals. :)

[Doomkid]

https://doomshack.org/uploads/mohawk2h.zip

 

Got a new build put together! Here's the current list:

 

Episode 1

 

01: Back Ashore! by muh

02: Temple of the Hula Imps by MidnightMage

03: Surf's up in Nuketown by Cheesewheel

04: Temple del Sol by Moustachio

05: WARehouse by Walter Confalonieri

06: Eleven Holidays by SilverMiner

07: (untitled) by Gokuma

 

Episode 2

 

12: Beautiful Clean Coal by me

13: (untitled) by Sluggard

14: Poster Boy of Mayhem by Aurelius & rd

15: Mall Rats by DFF

 

Very, very pleased with the progress being made. Just a reminder to mappers, please have something to show me by June 6th. It doesn't have to be finished of course, but I just want to know we're all well on our way. I want to wrap this thing up by mid-late July.

 

I'm kind of unsettled by the word Temple being used in two maps, maybe one of you could change it to Shrine, Alter, Fortress, Mansion or just something else in general? That'd be cool.

 

22 hours ago, IggySqiggles said:

Is it alright if I post the basic layout without any fancy visuals? I want to get feedback on gameplay and the layout before going Knee Deep in the visuals. :)

Please feel free to share your progress!

 

I also want to ask @MidnightMage and @Cheesewheel if you've see rd's feedback here and mine here. Not trying to pester you guys or anything, just want to make sure it's seen since this thread is pretty long by now.

 

Keep up the fantastic work, everyone.

 

EDIT: Oh yeah! Mappers, if you want to add a custom poster of your own, like the Z_ZAPA ones for example, please feel free to do so or send me the poster you want in your map and I'll Doomify it.

Edited June 2, 2021 by Doomkid

[Cheesewheel]

Already implemented feedback - check the original post of my map I have updated the DL.

[Doomkid]

D'oh - My apologies, I didn't realize it had been updated. Will be added as of next build!

[Moustachio]

Made a few changes to my map:

Spoiler

• Added a few more cells in large fights as well as an extra invul powerup in the final fight.
• Made all the invulnerability spheres out in the open. Some are more easily accessible earlier on in the fights as well.
• The area with the red skull is now a secret area, with the green armor and medikit stashed behind the red door are now replaced with a supercharge and a megaarmor.

• The arch-vile which resides up high in the cave area is now on a slightly lower platform that juts out more. Additionally, the platform is now brighter than it's surroundings, making it stick out more in the dark cave.

• The double cyberdemon fight after the blue key as been removed, and the spiderdemon at the end has been replaced with a cyberdemon.
• Fixed a few drawseg overflows.
• Fixed the cyberdemon and cacos that wouldn’t spawn in.

 

The download link is the same since I updated it through drive, but here it is again for the sake of convenience.

Edited June 2, 2021 by Moustachio

[DFF]

Also got some updates to my map based on rd.'s feedback.

Spoiler

• Added more SSGs and RLs (flamethrowers) around the map in place of some ammo so that players don't miss the weapons on accident. An oversight i forgot to include.
• adjusted the layout slightly in places.
• added teleporters to the last area that open when the cyberdemons are released so the player does not get trapped in either side section.
• Tested HMP and fixed some difficulty flags. lowered flamethrower ammo on HMP.

Link

[Muusi]

Goddamn how did i miss this?! That arsenal's looking _GOOD_. Great work everyone, i can't wait for this to come out!

[Scypek2]

Alright, I guess I can submit something playable now!

 

Ray of hope

 

I really like the final battle, the spiderdemon encounter, and the doomcute bits. Not sure about all the rest. Maybe you'll have some thoughts on what to improve and how. I left the outdoors underdecorated, they could probably use some changes either way. I'm also not sure if the battles are sufficiently epic for the final level, but since the story is about clearing out the remainder of the infestation, maybe it's appropriate for the final mission to feature relatively small groups of the toughest monsters instead of giant hordes of cannon fodder. I sprinkled in some dead monsters near the start with that in mind.

[snapshot]

Added posters and a billboard to the map and tweaked sky a little, k I think it's done fr now, link is in the original post (E: fixed)

Edited June 4, 2021 by sluggard

[Noiser]

Mapping is going strong!
Here's the cute stuff:

[adamastor]

I finally have some time to try this out. So far I've only recorded a demo of the first map. It's nothing special, but I was able to 100% it. It was recorded in Chocolate 3.0.0, on the Seeking Validation skill level.

 

I'll do the same for the other, available, maps when I have the chance. I hope it's useful to you guys.

Ray Mohawk 2 MAP01_demo.rar

[Doomkid]

I just got a bug report from @FrancisT218 that the Arch-Viles only do 20% damage per attack in ZDoom-based ports.

 

Just tested this in GZDoom, Zandronum, and ZDaemon, and sure enough, the AV only does 20 per attack.

 

In Vanilla, Chocolate, PrBoom+ and DSDA-Doom, it does the normal amount of damage - as intended, in other words.

 

Does anyone have any idea why this might be? I haven't modified the AV or his attacks so I'm stumped as to why they're modified..

[DFF]

No clue, but from watching Decino's videos on Explosions, the arch vile deals 20 hitscan damage from the attack, and 70 explosive damage (rng modifies explosive damage only), considering the arch vile was consistently doing only 20 damage (was watching Francis' stream) its something to do with the explosive damage.