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Doomkid

RAY MOHAWK 2 - Development Thread

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I’m glad you didn’t mind me taking a crack at your map, DFF. Latest version is great! And don’t pay any mind to that MIDI, I just slapped it in so I wouldn’t hear silence while testing.

 

I do agree with Azure Horror about keeping Slyors, (just not for the first wave), and even probably about reinstating the Blue Armor at the start (maybe I was just in a stingy mood the other day when tinkering with it, lol).

 

Either way this is small beans and I appreciate you taking the feedback on board. It really is a blast of an arena, especially coming off the back of the adventure that is map09.

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Quick question before i do more edits, as Azure mentioned and my original design, am i allowed to introduce the backpack or do you want it a secret? I can comply with that but i would prefer a backpack by at least the caco fight.

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Another map update with a bit more balance tweaking. mainly swapping the megasphere before the imp fight to a backpack, and making the megasphere optional to grab by the waterfall. Ammo should be plentiful when needed, but should leave the player mostly dry at the end of the map.

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Posted (edited)

 

14 hours ago, Egg Boy said:

@Azure_Horror Love your in depth feedback, very helpful. If you have any comments for Chocolate island, let me know.

 

Chocolate island, played on UV

 

Overall impression:

Very good map. Introduces truly vicious archvile use and claustrophobic fights, while also employing some nasty tricks from maps 01-07.

I especially liked the cyber section and the non-linearity of the map.

 

I found two minor issues.

1) Slyors have insane melee DPS. As a result, insta-pop slyor ambush at the cell cannon niche (point (3) at the spoilered image below) deletes player instantly on a blind playthrough. I think that ambush should have other monsters. Like, two revenants and a pinkie, or a hell knight and two specters.

2) Killing the Vile ambush with Auto-SG rewards the player with empty shell coffers. Feels super lame! I think that moving one shell box from (1) to (2) will fix this problem. If the player would go to (1), they would still have 60 shells from boxes at both (1) and (2). And if the player defeats the vile ambush using Auto-SG from (4), they will be able to use that Auto-SG against some other enemies.

Automap screencap, with points of interest marked

Spoiler

266975083_Ray08.png.004be2339cf8c672d24f9c34b7c7278b.png

 

After some thinking, I see an alternative, potentially more fun way to address 2):

Spoiler

Map has a lot of bullets in outer area. So the idea is to switch Auto-SG and blaster locations. Basically at point (4) there is a blaster instead of Auto-SG, and at point (5) there is an Auto-SG and two shell boxes. Both blaster and Auto-SG work for hell noble fight at (5), but for the other encounters on this map, the blaster is more convenient. Right now, many fights at Chocolate Island involve long range pistol-sniping, so early introduction of the blaster would speed things up and make the map more exiting. And the fight at (5) would be a very good teaching moment: it would demonstrate the power of Auto-SSG against mid-tiers in claustrophobic combat.

 

Issues 1) and 2) aside, Chocolate island is an awesome map. It employs cool blending of classical and modern mapping styles, incorporating both choreographed setpices and overall simple-but-fun free-roaming structure. The difficulty and mapsize feel perfect for slot 08.

 

 

5 hours ago, DFF said:

Another map update with a bit more balance tweaking. mainly swapping the megasphere before the imp fight to a backpack, and making the megasphere optional to grab by the waterfall. Ammo should be plentiful when needed, but should leave the player mostly dry at the end of the map.

The map is getting there! BTW, I managed to end the map with 330 fuel, while minimizing infights, berserk and cell usage. I think, balancing for both plentiful fuel ammo and mostly dry coffers at the map's end is impossible. Flamethrower is not a cell cannon, it is very hard to predict the ammount of fuel spent, especially on a blind playthrough of the WAD.

 

Right now, the ammo balance feels right. But it feels right for me, who is an experienced flamethrower user! I think that true first time players would appreciate additional fuel at the starting beach. Basically, I think that the pick-ups (fuel and blue armor) at the starting beach should be reverted to the original amount. Reasons:

- It is hard to see small fuel cans due to corpses.

- It is hard to manage ammo with unfamiliar weapon.

- It is hard to maneuver with monsters appearing all around the place and the flames obstructing the view.

 

Some thoughts about the start of the Cacoswarm area :

1) Maybe it would be good to add one revenant or hell knight to the imp cave (point (1) on the image inside spoiler below). Imps in the cave feel too insignificant on their own.

2) The blue armor should return to the waterfall area, and keep the mega outside of the concrete wall. The player can arrive to this fight with about 100 health and no armor after the cyber encounter. In that state, engaging two Viles with little cover may prove very difficult. I think that the island with the small fuel can would be a perfect spot for a megasphere. The potential spot for mega is marked (2) on the image below.

3) To compensate for a free mega, I suggest adding one free roaming archvile to the area (for example, to point (3)). Yes, the area has no cover, but it would have an obvious free megasphere. Basically, this would be another vile to gauge the power of flamethrower. It also would serve as a soft forewarning about imp-archvile fight.

Automap screencap, with points of interest marked

Spoiler

335683320_Rayflame10-Copy.png.599c4eb91edbdfe0088c2538606fd8ac.png

 

Small idea about the exit room:

I think Pinkie-Vile pair would be better than Vile-Rev combo. The pinkie goes to a waterfall niche, and vile gets to exit teleporter itself.

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Some thoughts/observations about melee weapons:

- Ray's knife: this thing is essentially a variation of Vanilla berserked fist. It deals less damage per hit, but attacks much faster, and has some other benefits. First of all, due to doom RNG magic the knife one-hits imps more often than OG berserk. Second, it is pretty good at triggering pain chance. And last, but not least, it feels much more responsive than berserked fist. BTW, when Ray decides to stab an archvile, the archvile only has time for one zap!

- Berserked knife: Yo, we heard you like going berserk, so we applied berserk to your berserk...

If normal knife works like berserk, than berserked knife is a berserk squared. This is a melee power weapon. It one-stabs revenants, destroys archviles, and with invulnerability power up it even grinds Cyberdemons to dust! It is a bit sad that there is no berserk-focused map in the WAD...

- The gauntlets: I feel like the gauntlets still need some strong buff. Compared to the chainsaw from Bourgeois Megawad, the gauntlets feel much more clunky. The Bourgeois chainsaw is better at latching onto enemies and has better painchance. This translates to the following result: with Bourgeois chainsaw you can reliably defeat hell knights, and may even fight an archvile in a pinch. You cannot do the same with the gauntlets. Add to that the power of Ray's knife and pistol, and the gauntlets become the most situational weapon ever.

 

22 hours ago, Egg Boy said:

Minor tweaks made according to @Azure_Horror's suggestions (thanks a ton).

 

-switched blaster and auto shotty

-minor adjustments to ammo placement

-replaced blue key Slyors with Revenants

 

chocolate island.zip

 

Playtested the new version. Wow! The blaster switch feels extremely fitting. Now the gameplay feels super smooth!

 

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Updated version of our map with Aurelius. This is an updated version of 2n's because 2o's is actually an accidental reversion (hopefully no one has played that).

 

mohawk_aurd_map.zip

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Posted (edited)
37 minutes ago, rd. said:

Updated version of our map with Aurelius. This is an updated version of 2n's because 2o's is actually an accidental reversion (hopefully no one has played that).

 

mohawk_aurd_map.zip

 

The version you uploaded is set to slot 19, overriding Vile Island. In mohawk2o "Poster Boy of Mayhem" was moved to slot 17.

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Don't worry, a new "almost RC" build is coming soon and all the maps will be appropriately placed.

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On 10/6/2021 at 2:44 AM, DFF said:

Another map update with a bit more balance tweaking. mainly swapping the megasphere before the imp fight to a backpack, and making the megasphere optional to grab by the waterfall. Ammo should be plentiful when needed, but should leave the player mostly dry at the end of the map.

 

Fun map! Here's a just for fun playthrough. 

 

 

Some stuff I noticed: 

 

- The megasphere is awkwardly placed imo. It's better than it was before, where you had to cheese the trigger to save it -- but you can get blocked from it by those cacodemons, which also have instant melee attacks and are way above you. That all punishes you for trying to use the mega smartly and also can't be anticipated by a first-time player. 
- Another big issue is the props that can block movement even when it looks like there is lots of space to move around them. I spotted one (by dying to it), but scoping for others seems prudent. 

 

- That whole part in the SW leading up the stairs wasn't fun: you can't really press against the doorway with the devastating siyors nearby and low visibility; if you hang back in the middle of the stairs, the stairs themselves can eat your shots; and finally standing below the stairs and luring everything to the door is unpleasant. 

 

- The last fight has a very bad aspect to it, with siyors that can teleport point-blank next to you. I found it hard to actually die there but it still never felt pleasant. Just feels like there is so much unforced damage potential there. (I'm referring to just playing the fight normally -- not in the video where I just left early for fun.) 

 

- You can leave the start easily, which is fine -- but it seems like a good idea to widen the tunnel connecting back to the start. There are also monster-teleport setups you can also use to have those monsters join in the big cacoswarm fight once that happens if left behind.

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Posted (edited)

Poster Boy of Mayhem (UV difficulty, last version)

 

Replayed the newest version.

1) The updated pinkie-shotgunner-mancubus fight feels much more fun.

2) It felt that the map played smoother, and I had more ammo!

Maybe this resulted from some subtle changes, or maybe I have finally gotten good?

 

Two trivial things made me curious:

- Was the music chosen as a nod to Kaizo Mario romhacks?

- How to get that Rad Suit sitting on top of metal cube?

Edited by Azure_Horror : spelling

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1 hour ago, Azure_Horror said:

Was the music chosen as a nod to Kaizo Mario romhacks?


It was mainly chosen because around the time I was making layout plans for this, Doomkid posted a collection of Super Mario World MIDIs. "Athletic" seemed like the perfect fit for the type of map that it was fleshing out to be.

 

1 hour ago, Azure_Horror said:

How to get that Rad Suit sitting on top of metal cube?

 

What if it doesn't want to be picked up? :<

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Posted (edited)
On 10/8/2021 at 5:22 PM, Aurelius said:

What if it doesn't want to be picked up? :<

 

So my strategy of not picking that rad suit was the intended solution? :^)

 

That archvile nearby is surely a nasty fellow. Threatens to throw armed people at innocent suits...

Edited by Azure_Horror

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Just moved 140 cells in the still-unnamed Vile map, since I found it easy to kill all the cyberdemons immediately instead of the intended chase. 

 

mohawk2o_rjdrdmap.zip

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Could anyone who has tested this wad, or had someone test the wad/maps for them, please post here so you're not left off the credits screen?

 

I'm working on it now, it's one of the last things I need to assemble before posting a new build!

 

(edit: ah screw it, I'll move us into RC once I get the list!)

 

der.PNG

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Alrighty, time for the LAST "not quite release candidate" build!!

 

https://doomshack.org/uploads/mohawk2p.zip

 

---

 

This has all 20 maps compiled, as well as the two bonus maps in their own separate wad.

 

All that's left to do (as far as I can tell) is complete some of the credit graphics and such. All the major stuff is now done! (FINALLY!)

 

---

 

Since he's been inactive for a while, I took the liberty of fixing all the non-vanilla stuff in NeedHealth's map (map15). Previously some lifts and such didn't work, there were numerous spots where vanilla crashed due to VPOs, and the texturing was not quite complete in some areas, but the map is otherwise a fun one. I fixed all of those issues, the map now seems to run seamlessly in all ports including vanilla and chocolate. I'm content with it in its current state.

 

@Scypek2, I also fixed a bug in your map where, as you picked up the Flamethrower on the crate, if you looked towards the basketball court, you'd see a flat bleeding (the sector that was used to make an "invisible wall"). I raised the floor height up a bit, now it works as intended. I had to so the same for a small building in the final boss arena, where you could also see a flat bleeding. In addition to those two (very small) errors being ironed out, I made the 4 pillars you have to step up a little taller, so that you don't have to be a speedrunning god to get to each one on time :P - hopefully you don't mind that small alteration. You can blow the last wave of barrels up early (the ones that end the map) before even lowing the final wall, if you want to raise the wall up a bit to prevent this you can, but I'll leave that entirely up to you.

 

@rd., I've penciled in your map name as "Arch-Visland", I think it's an adorable name, but of course I can change this once you've decided on a "not that long" name for this level! On that note, several maps were never given names, so I just filled them in with what I felt were suitable names. Authors, please give me a name within the next week (if you care to), otherwise the wad will be published with the names I provided. (@Peccatum Mihzamiz, yours in particular I couldn't even think of a decent replacement name for, so please let me know!)

 

---

 

Hopefully soon I'll get a list of everyone who helped to test this wad out so I can complete the remaining graphics, and any last-minute bugs or necessary adjustments can be made.

 

I think that's all there is to say! Enjoy, and please to leave any thoughts or feedback - we're on the home stretch!!

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Alright, how many time do we have? I still would like to make a few changes to my map if I get the chance (any feedback on it?). Btw I will try to review some of the maps on the set. Hopefully I will have a bit more of time this week.

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We won’t be at RC status for another week or so, and honestly your map is very impressive. One small alteration I’d like (if you decide to make some changes) is adding line action 337 to the edges of the surrounding water, for a “horizon effect”. I use this in map01 if you need a reference! In terms of gameplay, your map kicked my butt the first time, but once I got used to it I had a lot of fun. I don’t remember any bugs off the top of my head!

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Hey there! Name for my map: 'The Man with the Mohawk'.
I tested most of the maps on single and multiplayer! I don't remember all that participated in co-op testing with me but at least it was Scypek and MattFright.
Individuals that tested my map are: TheNoob_Gamer, eirc, leodoom85, eharper256 and FrancisT218.
Congratulations everybody!

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47 minutes ago, Peccatum Mihzamiz said:

Individuals that tested my map are: TheNoob_Gamer, eirc, leodoom85, eharper256 and FrancisT218.

It was a honor to help testing this level! As for the main project, the radically tweaked gameplay certainly got me hooked (props to Doomkid and team!), though I'll hold off until the final version is released. In the meantime, congrats to everybody involved!

If only I didn't quit when this project started to become a thing...

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As discussed recently in the Woof thread, the PSxx0 textures are faulty as far as Doom is concerned: they are larger than the single patch that makes them up, so they cause complaints about textures columns without a patch in some of the stricter ports and can cause crashes in vanilla if used on a linedef wide enough to expose one of the patchless columns.

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5 minutes ago, Gez said:

As discussed recently in the Woof thread, the PSxx0 textures are faulty as far as Doom is concerned: they are larger than the single patch that makes them up, so they cause complaints about textures columns without a patch in some of the stricter ports and can cause crashes in vanilla if used on a linedef wide enough to expose one of the patchless columns.

Ack, this is an error inherited from the FreeDoom textures, which had all kinds of side effects including every patch bizarrely having been added as it’s own texture as well.. I don’t know if any maps are using this texture, but I’ll double check each map and replace it with something that won’t crash if I find it. Thanks for mentioning this, Gez.

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They're not used (I ran SLADE's "replace in maps" feature to check, and it pointed out that it replaced 0 occurrences for each of the concerned textures). So the simpler fix is to delete these texture entries (not the patches, obviously).

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10 hours ago, Doomkid said:

You can blow the last wave of barrels up early (the ones that end the map) before even lowing the final wall, if you want to raise the wall up a bit to prevent this you can, but I'll leave that entirely up to you.

 

Can you actually do that without mouselook? I think I'd lean towards keeping it low to make it possible to glimpse the sky right away.

 

My last update also included moving the four pillars closer together to make sure they're all reachable without straferunning, but raising them up a little bit sounds good too... thanks for the invisible wall fixes!

 

My map has been playtested by FrancisT218, Peccatum Mihzamiz and Azure Horror.

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15 hours ago, Doomkid said:

Alrighty, time for the LAST "not quite release candidate" build!!

 

https://doomshack.org/uploads/mohawk2p.zip

 

---

 

This has all 20 maps compiled, as well as the two bonus maps in their own separate wad.

 

All that's left to do (as far as I can tell) is complete some of the credit graphics and such. All the major stuff is now done! (FINALLY!)

 

Hooray!

 

I didn't have time to test the last version yet, but I will attempt a HMP playthrough sometime on this week.

 

The 2o version of the WAD felt mostly complete on UV, with only one semi-serious issue remaining: the gauntlets. Even on version 2o they were not powerful enough to have a niche. Is it possible to double their damage (like with the fist doing five times the damage)? This way they would be strong enough to quickly eliminate single foes, but at a cost of keeping you in place. With many Ray2 involving multiple foes attacking from many different directions, the gauntlets would not be OP even with double damage.

Spoiler

If there is a problem with frames for dehacked sorcery - maybe it is possible to borrow one frame from Slyor flame attack? It seems to shoot 4 flames + 3 fireballs. From my limited understanding of dehacked, it seems that reducing the volley to 3 flames + 3 fireballs should allow borrowing one frame for gauntlets. The damage of flame projectiles could be adjusted up to compensate. Such change can also help reducing Slyor melee damage, wjich right now feels a bit too high. 

 

 

11 hours ago, Noiser said:

Alright, how many time do we have? I still would like to make a few changes to my map if I get the chance (any feedback on it?). Btw I will try to review some of the maps on the set. Hopefully I will have a bit more of time this week.

 

Some new feedback about "Pier Pressure" (If I remember correctly, about version 2n):

- Picking random shotgun from a dead shotgunner completely kills your momentum. Is it possible to provide non-auto shotgun right from the starting position of the map?

- Right now there is two shell boxes on top of the ship and two bullet boxes after blue door. I think it would be better to have 1 bullet + 1 shell box on the ship and 1 bullet + 1 shell box behind the blue door. The big issue with the first section is the lack of bullets at the start. This issue leads to melee combat, and to safely engage in melee combat, you need to spend lots of time on maneuvering around the arena to disrupt all the lines of fire. This running around feels gimmicky and somewhat monotonous. Switching of ammo boxes on the ship would allow for more liberal use of blaster and pistol, and would speed things up a bit. And the overall balance of ammo would not change at all.

- On HMP, inside the BFG building, there is a bug: the revs near supercharge do not teleport in. On UV everything works.

- Bonus supercharge in the blur fight is very hard to notice on HMP.

- I feel like HMP and HNTR need more supercharges/megas/medkits/armors. Monster balance for lower difficulties feels alright.

Overall: my favourite and most played map of Ray2. It is very fun, and really uses the Ray2 mechanics to create unique combat situations.

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7 hours ago, Scypek2 said:

Can you actually do that without mouselook? I think I'd lean towards keeping it low to make it possible to glimpse the sky right away.

 

My last update also included moving the four pillars closer together to make sure they're all reachable without straferunning, but raising them up a little bit sounds good too... thanks for the invisible wall fixes!

Yeah, I actually found out by accident using the cell cannon. You can just shoot right over the wall and since explosions are infinitely tall in Doom, it catches the barrels. It's not exactly a huge skip - it shaves off maybe 20 seconds at best, and it's probably like a 1-in-20 chance (or less) this will happen to a player who is none the wiser.

 

Also forgive me for making the pillars easier.. I changed this to cater to my, er, "epic" Doom skills.. :) If you want me to revert it I certainly can, my intent is not to much with your vision - it's a stellar map after all.

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