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Doomkid

RAY MOHAWK 2 - Development Thread

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Goddamn how did i miss this?! That arsenal's looking _GOOD_. Great work everyone, i can't wait for this to come out!

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Alright, I guess I can submit something playable now!

 

Ray of hope

 

I really like the final battle, the spiderdemon encounter, and the doomcute bits. Not sure about all the rest. Maybe you'll have some thoughts on what to improve and how. I left the outdoors underdecorated, they could probably use some changes either way. I'm also not sure if the battles are sufficiently epic for the final level, but since the story is about clearing out the remainder of the infestation, maybe it's appropriate for the final mission to feature relatively small groups of the toughest monsters instead of giant hordes of cannon fodder. I sprinkled in some dead monsters near the start with that in mind.

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Added posters and a billboard to the map and tweaked sky a little, k I think it's done fr now, link is in the original post (E: fixed)

Edited by sluggard

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I finally have some time to try this out. So far I've only recorded a demo of the first map. It's nothing special, but I was able to 100% it. It was recorded in Chocolate 3.0.0, on the Seeking Validation skill level.

 

I'll do the same for the other, available, maps when I have the chance. I hope it's useful to you guys.

Ray Mohawk 2 MAP01_demo.rar

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I just got a bug report from @FrancisT218 that the Arch-Viles only do 20% damage per attack in ZDoom-based ports.

 

Just tested this in GZDoom, Zandronum, and ZDaemon, and sure enough, the AV only does 20 per attack.

 

In Vanilla, Chocolate, PrBoom+ and DSDA-Doom, it does the normal amount of damage - as intended, in other words.

 

Does anyone have any idea why this might be? I haven't modified the AV or his attacks so I'm stumped as to why they're modified..

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No clue, but from watching Decino's videos on Explosions, the arch vile deals 20 hitscan damage from the attack, and 70 explosive damage (rng modifies explosive damage only), considering the arch vile was consistently doing only 20 damage (was watching Francis' stream) its something to do with the explosive damage.

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Still working on my map but I'd like to add my poster here now.

I need to do some delicate balancing as my new additions make my map more difficult.

 

posterv9.PNG

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20 hours ago, Doomkid said:

Does anyone have any idea why this might be? I haven't modified the AV or his attacks so I'm stumped as to why they're modified..

 

I took a look at it. When opened in notepad, it does show that the "archvile fire" was not modified, but it doesn't mean the fire's states weren't...

 

I opened it up in WhackEd and compared it to the original... it seems the original archvile fire has 11 "Fire" frames after the "Fire Crackle" frame, while the one in Mohawk only has 9. But the duration of archvile's attack is unchanged, so the fire goes out shortly before the attack finalizes, and the explosion has nowhere to spawn. The static 20 damage is a direct hitscan that doesn't require the fire to exist.

 

I changed the duration of the last 5 frames of archvile fire from 2 tics to 3 tics, and it restored the normal archvile behavior. The slight change in animation would probably remain unnoticed, just like we all didn't notice the fire going out 4 tics too early...

 

Upon closer inspection, I see that you repurposed those two last frames for Slyor's second and third fireball.

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Wow, excellent investigative work there Scypek. I can’t help but wonder why the change only affects ZDoom based ports? All the vanilla ports go unaffected, so is this some kind of fringe case ZDoom bug?

 

Also I apologise about the lack of feedback for your submission so far - I will do that soon! Additionally I want to thank you Noiser for that DECORATE patch and your screenshots - very much looking forward to playing your map.

 

I’ll have a new build compiled soon with all the updates.

 

On that note, it’s just about submission day mappers - please show me what you got soon here, even if it’s not finished!

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I know that technically I'm not part of the project, but I have some demos for the title screens, for this build (that's the most recent build that I found)

Here they are, tell me what you think :)

 

demos.zip

 

Of course they are "suggestions", so don't use them if you want to ;)

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Minor update to my map. = "Ossuary of the Hula Imps"

Current build v3

 

 

Edited by MidnightMage

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I don't really have much yet, other than the map I scrapped. I can still post it if you want to see it. :)

 

Edit: I currently don't have access to the latest version of the old map but will hopefully have it soon.

Edited by IggySqiggles

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14 hours ago, Doomkid said:

Wow, excellent investigative work there Scypek. I can’t help but wonder why the change only affects ZDoom based ports? All the vanilla ports go unaffected, so is this some kind of fringe case ZDoom bug?

 

I just counted the length of the archvile attack, and the length of the fire's existence, and it seems that your shortened archvile fire lasts not shorter than the archvile attack, but exactly as long. I guess Zdoom and vanilla just have differing opinions of which should happen first, the explosion spawning or the fire vanishing.

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Map title [?]
Music: 'Hocus Pocus' by Focus. MIDI will probably change. (here's a cool live version of the original)

You find out that there's more than meets the eye to this tropical paradise. There's a very evil lair with henchmen kinda feel to the base you discover hiding behind a facade of old temples and sandy beaches. You'll have to fight your way through evil laboratories, a power plant, a hangar and other iconic locations to finally destroy the transmittor/particle weapon/whatever kinda evil tower. Must again be one of those baddies that's a fan of 1960's spy movies or something...

My map is... 66.6% complete? Got the layout done, the ideas on progression and what kind of textures I'm gonna use everywhere etc.. Going to work on monster placement and texturing now. There are still some visplane overflow issues in certain arenas: those can luckily all be tackled and I will do so soon:). Also many of the doors somehow broke when I quickly made the version I'm sharing...

Work-in-progress can be downloaded here.

Screenshots (with horrible temporary lighting/ textures in many places:

Spoiler

Screenshot_Doom_20210605_101137.png

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Screenshot_Doom_20210606_210821.png

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Screenshot_Doom_20210606_211123.png

 

 

Edited by Peccatum Mihzamiz : Changed file to include custom MIDI. This is a temp song: I'm planning to make my own version of this song/update the current version.

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On 6/4/2021 at 10:53 AM, sluggard said:

Added posters and a billboard to the map and tweaked sky a little, k I think it's done fr now, link is in the original post (E: fixed)

 

I played through the newest version of the map.

The map is very good and fun to play in its current state.

I can suggest only a few minor tweaks:

1) The revenants on towers in the yellow key section are very annoying to clear without blaster ammo. So I think it would be nice to add a box of 50 bullets onto the wall area.

2) A melee weapon could be fun to use in some of the fights. Maybe one of the revenant side rooms at the start should have gauntlets inside?

3) Ammo pickups in the cyber room often lead to wasted plasma. I think instead of 5 bulk cells there should be 1 bulk cell and 20 small cells. Same amount of plasma, but it would be much easier to ration it in the super-intense fight.

 

Speaking of Sluggard's map: I want to ask about the different strategies for the cyberdemon fight. I managed to clear this room going from the red key back to the entrance,  but I am not sure if my approach is really that good.

 

Some thought about the BFG-9002:

Right now BFG eats plasma extremely fast. The cell cannon is much, much easier to use effectively. Can BFG really trivialise any of the existing fights? I played through most of the maps in the current version (including the Aurelius' & Rd's map), and so far no such fights come to mind. Usually BFG takes 50 plasma to do something which can be done with 20 cell cannon shots.

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2 hours ago, Azure_Horror said:

Some thought about the BFG-9002:

Right now BFG eats plasma extremely fast. The cell cannon is much, much easier to use effectively. Can BFG really trivialise any of the existing fights? I played through most of the maps in the current version (including the Aurelius' & Rd's map), and so far no such fights come to mind. Usually BFG takes 50 plasma to do something which can be done with 20 cell cannon shots.

Being honest, I would rather not see the BFG being buffed any further. As it is I'm already concerned of my map being trivialized on continuous runs. :-(

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Yeah, I’m definitely content with the current balance. The Cell Cannon being the best all-rounder weapon is no problem and the BFG is still far more effective against waves or when you’re getting surrounded.

 

I just about have a new build ready, but I want to ask @Bobby “lolmcswagger”, @Hitboi, @Egg Boy, @OpenRift to please show me what you have so far so it can be folded into the next beta, or at least we can all get an idea where you’re up to.

 

Keep up the fine work, everyone - very pleased with the progress and work I’ve seen so far.

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13 hours ago, Doomkid said:

Yeah, I’m definitely content with the current balance. The Cell Cannon being the best all-rounder weapon is no problem and the BFG is still far more effective against waves or when you’re getting surrounded.

 

In the maps I played so far I didn't encounter any wave combat situations too dense for the Cell Cannon. Considering the superiour ammo efficiency of the cannon, this begs the question: why should I use BFG for wave combat? And the autoshotgun takes care of any tight groups which attempt to surround you.

 

What else can I use BFG for?

- Archviles? Unless it is something silly like 5 Viles without cover, Cell Canon, Blaster, Autoshotgun and Flamethrower are much more convinient.

- Lone Cyberdemon? For a lone cyberdemon non-cell weapons are more ammo-efficient and do the job very well. I think even Cell Canon would be pretty good here, given its huge direct hit damage. Cell Canon should take a cyber down in around 35-40 plasma units, while BFG needes at least 2 shots and 50 plasma.

- Multiple Cyberdemons? If the combat space is tight, then yes, BFG is the best answer. (See sluggard's map). If the space is relatively open, then keeping away and using strong long-range weapons is the superiour option, IMHO.

- Destroying spider masterminds? For this blaster and autoshotgun are simply better, due to their stunlock potential.

 

So the BFG-9002 begins to shine only when dealing with Scythe map26 levels of monster density. And it also needs a lot of plasma. Unless there is a map built around Cell Canon heavy, but BFG-less slaughter-style encounters, I don't see how the BFG-9002 can trivialise some hypothetical diffiult encounter designed with the Ray2 arsenal in mind.

 

13 hours ago, Noiser said:

Being honest, I would rather not see the BFG being buffed any further. As it is I'm already concerned of my map being trivialized on continuous runs. :-(

 

Are there any BFG specific problems? IMHO, for most maps (including the Aurelius' & Rd's map), additional reserves of bullets for Blaster and cells for Cell Cannon are causing much more profound effect balance-wise.

Edited by Azure_Horror : Spelling, making the text less verbose

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Currently in the process of making MAP07. I got the center down, but I wanna have some branching paths. I'm gonna work on it some more today.

image.png.33ba06f66ed2aa6efe3986501ddbb896.png

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9 hours ago, Azure_Horror said:

 

In the maps I played so far I didn't encounter any wave combat situations too dense for the Cell Cannon. Considering the superiour ammo efficiency of the cannon, this begs the question: why should I use BFG for wave combat? And the autoshotgun takes care of any tight groups which attempt to surround you.

 

What else can I use BFG for?

- Archviles? Unless it is something silly like 5 Viles without cover, Cell Canon, Blaster, Autoshotgun and Flamethrower are much more convinient.

- Lone Cyberdemon? For a lone cyberdemon non-cell weapons are more ammo-efficient and do the job very well. I think even Cell Canon would be pretty good here, given its huge direct hit damage. Cell Canon should take a cyber down in around 35-40 plasma units, while BFG needes at least 2 shots and 50 plasma.

 - Multiple Cyberdemons? If the combat space is tight, then yes, BFG is the best answer. (See sluggard's map). If the space is relatively open, then keeping away and using strong long-range weapons is the superiour option, IMHO.

- Destroying spider masterminds? For this blaster and autoshotgun are simply better, due to their stunlock potential.

 

So the BFG-9002 begins to shine only when dealing with Scythe map26 levels of monster density. And it also needs a lot of plasma. Unless there is a map built around Cell Canon heavy, but BFG-less slaughter-style encounters, I don't see how the BFG-9002 can trivialise some hypothetical diffiult encounter designed with the Ray2 arsenal in mind.

 

 

Are there any BFG specific problems? IMHO, for most maps (including the Aurelius' & Rd's map), additional reserves of bullets for Blaster and cells for Cell Cannon are causing much more profound effect balance-wise.

 

> What else can I use BFG for?

 

For fun. Ammo efficiency is not the thing I'd be primarily focused on as a player here.

 

Also a cell pack in this still gives 4 BFG shots. The cell cannon - BFG dynamic is definitely going to be more like "I'm using the BFG anyway because I don't need 500 cell cannon shots in this map lol." 

 

There's not a map I've played where I'd actually want to hoard so many cells for the cell cannon and use that and little else, instead of having fun with a mixed arsenal. Definitely willing to throw away lots of potential cell cannon shots. Even in Cheesewheel's CPD, if the BFG were somehow available that early, I'd use it 4-5 times just because there are a lot of juicy spots for it. 

 

Also there are maps that haven't been released yet, and one of the ones I'm working on (with RJD) gets pretty BFG-centric. 

 

5 archviles without -- or with tenuous -- cover is not really "silly" in this imo, given how powerful the weapons are. It doesn't really work to carry over Doom 2 standard intuitions and implant those in a much stronger arsenal. Then this plays out more like SV_FASTWEAPONS or something. 

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A little late to the party, but we made it! Here is mine and rd's map, ready for testing, feedback, FDAs, and copious amounts of salt!

 

Download (needs to be loaded with the latest resource wad): VileIsland_v0.1.zip

 

Screenshots:

Spoiler

DJDLkyVl.png

x9E5757l.png

g4eZlt6l.png

 

Title: Alfonzo Stumbles Bloodied Into a Laundromat and, While Attempting to Hide From a Mob of Feral Donkeys, Unwittingly Finds That One Washer Is a Cloning Device That Turns All of His Copies Into Archviles (ft. Miley Cyrus)

Authors: RJD and rd

Tested with: chocorenderlimits, Eternity, GZDoom

Music: I Choose the Stairs, by Lee Jackson

Difficulty Settings: Yes

Description: A quick burst of absolute mayhem, set in a compact, tropical island techbase teeming with hordes of monsters merely waiting for the swift justice of Ray's devastating arsenal. 

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Made a few small changes to Map04, mainly tweaking fights and enemy placements for different skill levels. Still haven't gotten around to adding that sailboat though. Tested with mohawk2h.wad.

 

Danload

 

Changelog

Spoiler
  • Toned down many fights for skills 1-3 (ITYTD-HMP).
  • Slightly re-worked the first cave fight so that things happen in a slightly different order.

Ihx52r2.png

  • Added a few fodder enemies and low-health turrets, mainly in the first outdoor area.
  • Added a small secret within a larger secret.
  • Replaced the cyberdemon at the end with a bunch of barons. The barons have also been moved behind the lowering wall that blocks the exit. The cyberdemon was a bit much by the end of the map. Also toned down the arch-vile and revenant swarms at the end.
  • Poked some holes in the fences near the start to allow for some better movement through the level.

 

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Oh, is a sector blleding, i have got that bug too in other projects, even recently in the remake of E2M6 by memory project.

 

A way to fix it is to add one (or more) vertex to the linedef that gave you that problem, you can see it by walking around that incrimanted sector that give you that bug, another one is seeing if that sector have the vertex connected by the lines, move it and it will be connected automatically.

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On 6/9/2021 at 6:15 AM, RonnieJamesDiner said:

The Vile reminder of the tragedy that had befallen poor Alfonso

 

Fun, sometimes evil map. It teaches you to stop worrying and love the blue cyberdemons.

 

The starting fight seems to be the hardest, despite being the least insane fight of the map. I very much liked both the beginning section and the subsequent archvile-cyberdemon madness. At first, both those episodes feel blatantly unfair, until you start using the WAD arsenal to its true destructive potential. Dealing with those fights felt extremely rewarding.

 

I also liked the instapop monsters in the final room, which all can be destroyed with one well-aimed BFG blast.

 

As for the final fight itself... I dunno. It feels very "Fight-by-numbers": it is clearly designed with one 'correct' scenario in mind: rushing the archviles in a precise way to destroy them with BFG while avoiding beeing chain-blasted. If you fail, you die. If you succeed, you win. True, there are other monsters in that fight, but they pose very little danger, especially compared to the previous encounters on this map. On top of that, the whole BFG vs archvile horde scenario was already used earlier on the map, in a more chaotic situation, which involved monster teleporters and cyberdemons.

 

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