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scalliano

I called it.

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Well, there's a public QnA on the DOOM discord later tonight, in case any of you wanna try and bring your concerns directly to Hugo:

 

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7 minutes ago, Hunting4r2d2 said:

Well, there's a public QnA on the DOOM discord later tonight, in case any of you wanna try and bring your concerns directly to Hugo:

 

Lol, I forgot about this until now. I'm sure this won't totally be an utter and complete ragespam clusterfuck of 'remove the MTX RIGHT NAOW', 'I didn't get my Doomicorn skin wtf', 'u lied to us Hugo', and 'daddy please make the pain stop.'

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14 hours ago, Reelvonic said:

mighty doom crap, then rap music on the tv spot trailer, having to make an an account for their version of doom, bs green crosses, censored maps 31 n 32 and iirc e4m1. fuck you bethesda why do you want to hurt doom. doom is my life

 

While this skin business leaves something of a sour taste, many of the things you outline here are not really examples of Bethesda ruining things.

 

Stuff like "bs green crosses" was implemented years ago, long before Bethesda bought id, and for all the right reasons.  It is a protected symbol and while I don't care for it, the change was made with entirely good intentions.  Other things were either mistakes that were rectified (like the Bethesda account requirements for the new Doom ports) or really unimportant in the grand scheme of things (music choices on short-lived TV spots).

 

Honestly Bethesda has done more to shore-up the original games than id did in 20 years.  Say what you like about Doom Eternal, but the original games have received far more attention and effort than any of us thought they would get under Bethesda.  

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Posted (edited)

Since I already see this conversation going extremely well with “Doom Eternal is objectively the worst thing to happen to the franchise” and “Hugo Martin is secretly three Randy Pitchfords in a trench coat”, not to mention the constant smugness going on, I might as well dump the two cents I have here for the only time.

 

 

So I would like to ask three questions:

-Does it give you an advantage?

-Does it change the way you play the campaign or Battlemode?

-Does it change your look aesthetically?

 

If either the first two questions are answered with “yes”, then we would have a problem.

 

The thing with microtransactions that make them particularly infamous is the whole “pay to win” aspect; in that they provide a clear advantage over others if you got the shiny gold box for $9.99 where you got to score 4-5 more kills than anyone else who doesn’t have this box.



Yes, I know this is very much a promise that was broken; I accept that this is a really shitty thing and we deserve more transparency out of this (especially since id has been much more transparent with matters like these in the past like the Denuvo anti-cheat fiasco).
 

The thing is, we don’t know who did this especially in light of the recent acquisition; this could’ve either been Bethesda or Microsoft issuing out these marching orders.


 

Additionally, there was that whole mini-event where you had a second chance to earn the Series 1 skins again.

 

And finally, something like this in Doom Eternal isn’t exactly some new concept; case in point, the Rip & Tear pack where you bought the Doot Revenant skin, the classic combat shotgun skin, and the Cultist Base master level as they were all previously preorder bonuses.

 

 

Do I think this could’ve been handled better? Absolutely.

 

I still would have maintained Series 1 being purchasable especially since they just re-ran that event again and I wouldn't want it locked away forever, but I would’ve had the Doomicorn skin pack be earned through a Slayer’s Club challenge like they did with the Hotrod Slayer (especially considering that they were both Twitch Prime exclusives).

 

But this is not worth review bombing, harassment of anyone at id Software, or shitting on anyone who dares to say that they liked Doom Eternal/TAG.



 

Side note:

Spoiler

 

The reason I might come across defensive or confrontational or whatever is because after making that thread on Mick Gordon potentially not returning to the franchise after the shitshow that was the original OST release (as well as comparing the OST release to Fallout 76’s release in a now-deleted post on r/Doom), I still feel nothing but abject shame and anger towards myself because it felt like I directly contributed to id and Mick having burned bridges with each other at the time, possibly permanently.

 

And I never want to inspire anyone to act like that ever again.

 

 

Not after everything that transpired over Doom Annihilation, including rape threats.
 

Not after the debates over contractual dickshit or “well actually this band/person would’ve done a much better job with the Doom soundtrack/game/movie/whatever”.


Not after the constant soapboxing over “the integrity of the Doom franchise”.

 

Not after the constant/targeted harassment and even death threats directed towards people who worked their asses off to bring us a product they’re proud of.

 

 

I’m sorry, but I already have enough negativity going on with the state of the world and the things I had to deal with in my own personal life.

I want to come here just to share cool thoughts and connect with people, not to watch those same people come to blows with each other or constantly see the mindset of “if you like this Doom-related thing, you should just fucking deepthroat a shotgun because you’re an objectively garbage person”.

 

Hell, I almost never come to this subforum anymore because of what I just mentioned.

Because it’s been nothing but bickering and grandstanding lately.

 

Whatever debates came over Doom 2016 never got *this* bad.

 

 

Edited by Man of Doom

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I would have to be artistically bankrupt to get any pride or pleasure for being asked to produce that content.

 

 

I guess I would blame the demand.

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Posted (edited)
2 hours ago, Man of Doom said:

So I would like to ask three questions:

-Does it give you an advantage?

-Does it change the way you play the campaign or Battlemode?

-Does it change your look aesthetically?

 

If either the first two questions are answered with “yes”, then we would have a problem.

The questions you are asking alongside your foregone conclusion are not representative of how people feel about anything... If you are actually going under the assumption that things only matter if they provide a quantifiable advantage instead of just an individually felt one, then please explain to me why people spend time on detailing their custom WADs, or why they change the colour palette to achieve a different look, why do mancubus fireballs not look like those thrown by imps when it all doesn't actually matter?

 

Why did video games evolve and improve their visuals to a point where they're getting ever closer to photorealistic output, and why are visuals something almost everybody factors into their review of something they have played? It's because visuals matter at least to some extent, even to those who proclaim that they don't care at all.

 

It's because visuals do actually matter to a lot of people, and the very existence of cosmetic DLCs is proof of that, because no corporate entity out there would expend development resources on something which they know nobody will spend even so much as a nickel on...

 

Would I play an ugly as fuck map as long as the gameplay is something I'm into? Yeah... I sure would give it a bash, but that doesn't mean that my overall impression of the map wouldn't be positively affected if there was some visually interesting meat on the bone... What you see is part of the game, and therefore it matters...

 

The "it's just cosmetic, so who cares?" argument is a fallacy most of the time, and it always has been that way. Cosmetics matter enough for people to pay amounts of money on them that would easily equate a week's worth of healthy food on their plates... Perhaps that's not the case for this game, but I only need to look at Path of Exile to see that even cosmetics which, again, do matter to a high enough degree, are something people will spend hundreds of dollars on...

 

Shit like this is real: https://www.polygon.com/2019/5/7/18534431/fortnite-rare-default-skins-bullying-harassment

 

 

And before anybody raises the "well, that's just random assholes on the web being random assholes" argument, corporations know about these dynamics, and they certainly appreciate that players happen to be able and willing to flex their bling over those who have nothing in their virtual dresser, because it turns part of their player-base into "sales-bullies"... Bullies who, by the way, wouldn't even exist if nobody gave a flying fuck about cosmetic DLCs...

Edited by Nine Inch Heels

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Wanna buy them? Good.

Don't wanna buy them and roll eyes? Good too.

 

Move on. Shit happens.

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1 hour ago, Nine Inch Heels said:

 

Shit like this is real: https://www.polygon.com/2019/5/7/18534431/fortnite-rare-default-skins-bullying-harassment

 

 

And before anybody raises the "well, that's just random assholes on the web being random assholes" argument, corporations know about these dynamics, and they certainly appreciate that players happen to be able and willing to flex their bling over those who have nothing in their virtual dresser, because it turns part of their player-base into "sales-bullies"... Bullies who, by the way, wouldn't even exist if nobody gave a flying fuck about cosmetic DLCs...

 

Just my coment, that something that happens yeah, but if the game it's mostly MP Focus. Mostly because the base skins are there for shame or looks really plain, but in Doom Eternal, you can have better skins that the those one you buy with challenges and skill, it's not like that option it's not out of the game.

Trust me, if this was in a shooter type of Quake, where you have the posibility to win skins and stuff with the daily challege, free loot box and farming gems, and remplace it with mandatory $, it's just sucks, because they remove some options for low cash players, and it's a MP GAME.

The review bomb it's just a side effect of the Skins not working as intended, so yeah, that's a good reason to leave a negative review20210423210252_1.jpg.f673c3c70ccdab68376019dae2acaa7a.jpg

But really not a worth topic to me to take because i really don't care. I have already my Monster Skin 

 

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Posted (edited)
16 hours ago, Caffeine Freak said:

 

I mean sure, but even back in the days of Carmack, they wouldn't open source their engines until *long* after they themselves were finished with them, usually 2-3 further id engines in the future. I'm not saying Carmack didn't have good motives, because I think he did. But they also tended to release their tech in a way that was pretty risk-averse, especially given how quickly graphics and processing power were exploding in the 90's to mid-2000's.

 

Correct. Carmack mentioned this on the Joe Rogan podcast.

 

Quote

"So the pitch that I ran for years there was after our new game came out, with brand new technology, then we should be able to open source release the previous generation"

 - Carmack

 

 

 

5 hours ago, CasualScrub said:

I do love how everyone immediately wants to choke out Bethesda when these things happen like they're some dark overlord holding ID on puppet strings. Reminds me of the Mick Gordon situation where everyone assumed Bethesda "fucked over" Mick's work when in reality Mick wasn't doing the work on time.

 

 

I think "he wasn't doing the work on time" is an incorrect view. They only contracted him for the OST in Jan 2020, after having promised it for CE pre-orders long before. The game was set to launch on March 20 2020. I'm not a professional music producer, but that seems like a ridiculously short timeframe for producing the OST. Any music producers are welcome to correct me. But it sounds like there was an error in timeframes with the contract, and due to everything... yes, Mick couldn't finish it within that tight window. Unfortunately, the choice to wait so long to contract him gave id a fantastic scapegoat to dunk Mick in the ensuing shitstorm.

Edited by Rytrik

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6 hours ago, CasualScrub said:

ID is not some perfect company, guys. They're not the same ID when Carmack and Romero were there.

As thoroughly documented in Masters of Doom and Rocket Jump, they were a bunch of assholes back then too.

 

I mean, they hired Tim Willits. What more proof do you need?

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Posted (edited)

As to the concerns about Series 1 and the Doomicorn DLCs being goofed up, the issue has been rectified as quickly as it begun, basically; at least on my end. 

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Posted (edited)

Optional cosmetics don't bother me since I can ignore them so easily, especially not this kind of store page-only skin packs that have zero impact on my experience. If it gets to a point where it's super egregious there's always the option to not support/buy the product that has it, gotta tone done the pessimism a notch, or maybe i'm just talking out of my ass and this might be them testing the waters to see if there will be a strong negative reaction to it or not before they go full on Acti-EA with p2w crap. my 2 cents.

5 hours ago, Man of Doom said:

-Does it change the way you play the campaign or Battlemode?

Yes, other players can look cool while they fuck your mom joking ofc

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Posted (edited)

The Great "gotcha moment" the Doom Eternal critics have been waiting for.

Its obvious that hugo software only exists to ruin the great name of Doom and we have been saying it since Doom 2016's release... we're exposed the consipracy guys.

 

on a serious note, The fact that it tool an Entire Year for bugthesda to finally push this is impressive.

 

17 hours ago, Vic Vos said:

So, Hugo Besthesda is a confirmed liar. Not surprised.

Fixed that for you. he's the gameplay director not the marketing/finance guy.

 

It's not Miyazaki who decides on making remakes and remasters of Dark Souls  and Demon's Souls for easy profit.

everyone seems to forget that Bethesda is above Id software not the other way around. but i guess people need to twist the narrative to "hugo bad" when it's convenient.

Edited by jazzmaster9

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Posted (edited)
5 hours ago, Gez said:

I mean, they hired Tim Willits. What more proof do you need?

 

 

What? what happened?

 

I guess I missed that part of the anime.

 

 

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Posted (edited)
1 hour ago, jazzmaster9 said:

The Great "gotcha moment" the Doom Eternal critics have been waiting for.

Its obvious that hugo software only exists to ruin the great name of Doom and we have been saying it since Doom 2016's release... we're exposed the consipracy guys.

 


And imagine ussing the doomincorn as a excuse to Doom Ruined Bad.

Im free to people to critize the game, but at least im not some % of users are looking for the 5 leg of the cat to see how this could be worse.

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Posted (edited)
On 4/29/2021 at 10:32 PM, Reelvonic said:

why is bethesda so certain to fuck this franchise.

mighty doom crap, then rap music on the tv spot trailer, having to make an an account for their version of doom, bs green crosses, censored maps 31 n 32 and iirc e4m1. fuck you bethesda why do you want to hurt doom. doom is my life

Imagine getting this upset about a company doing something as small and inconsequential (let alone justified) as changing the crosses on medkits from red to green.

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Posted (edited)
7 minutes ago, chemo said:

Imagine getting this upset about a company doing something as small and inconsequential (let alone justified) as changing the crosses on medkits from red to green.

 

anger at the green cross is totally justifiable. as you can see, it's objectively inferior in every way to the pinnacle of perfection that is the mighty pill of the older xbox port:

 

image.png.2e65c609f4b16645402d566de61910c5.png

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23 minutes ago, Arl said:

What? what happened?

 

I guess I missed that part of the anime.

Don't really want to derail the thread, but old id Software was a pretty toxic place to work at. And Tim Willits famously defended always-on DRM schemes.

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1 hour ago, Marn said:

 

anger at the green cross is totally justifiable. as you can see, it's objectively inferior in every way to the pinnacle of perfection that is the mighty pill of the older xbox port:

 

image.png.2e65c609f4b16645402d566de61910c5.png

touche

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>This thread 

>me stepping into it and seeing shit hit the vent. AGAIN. LIKE IT NEVER HAPPENED BEFORE.

 

Being serious here there are only cosmetics. Although, SOMEBODY, promices no microtransactions, whatsoever...

Poor bastartds...

from-the-archive-willy-wonka-and-the-chocolate-factory.jpg

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7 hours ago, jazzmaster9 said:

on a serious note, The fact that it tool an Entire Year for bugthesda to finally push this is impressive.

Bethesda was bought by Microsoft. They have come calling on their investment

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Posted (edited)

nah this is obviously Ego Martin's fault. if something is bad, its because of Overlord Hugo. he objectively has more power than Microsoft or Bethesda to make a complete 180 about In game purchases...

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I'd like to think that most people recognise that if Microsoft or Bethesda really decide to press on with monetisation, then there's precious little that the likes of Hugo or Marty could do. Certainly there doesn't seem to be much fuss going on about it in the much-derided Doom subreddit.

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I honestly don't care that much, all the cosmetics I like I already got from challenges in previous events or got from owning the Doom 1 and 2 rereleases. All I really need is my Classic Doomguy skin and I'm happy.

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13 hours ago, Gez said:

Don't really want to derail the thread, but old id Software was a pretty toxic place to work at. And Tim Willits famously defended always-on DRM schemes.

yep. it's always been this way

 

i'm still sad about what they did to tom hall ):

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These aren't even "microtransactions" anyways, there is no ingame economy to speak of, this is more closely resembling a mini-dlc unlock for additional content. Paid additional content does NOT automatically mean microtransactions.

Other than that... I couldn't really care less, I ignored the skin when it was free, I'm ignoring it now.

 

12 hours ago, jazzmaster9 said:

nah this is obviously Ego Martin's fault. if something is bad, its because of Overlord Hugo. he objectively has more power than Microsoft or Bethesda to make a complete 180 about In game purchases...

 

He's obviously set on slowly brainwashing the masses with community streams and Q&As. Wake up sheeple! He's trying to erase classic DOOM from history!

 

/s

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Posted (edited)

if my kids can spend my fakin money on roblox shit, than i m allowed to spend some on myself so i bought a DOOMicorn pack (skin i've missed timeframe to connect twitch prime with bethesda back in last april) cause i love the frikin game so much...and i'm gonna buy that USA pack i also missed for reason i cant even remember...rip and tear

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Posted (edited)

I support this type of "microtransactions". It doesn't add any advantage, it lets people get what they want and it doesn't affect anyone else in the process. Everyone wins. 

 

If this is the prelude of something else, no one knows, like no one knew that they were gonna sell the skins. As things stand, I support selling skins that people could've got for free, not once, but twice. Stop being dramatic.

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