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scalliano

I called it.

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50 minutes ago, Martin-CAI said:

I support this type of "microtransactions". It doesn't add any advantage, it lets people get what they want and it doesn't affect anyone else in the process. Everyone wins. 

 

Fairly certain the only person that wins in this scenario is the game publisher who got to suck the extra coins out of your wallet for content that honestly should've been available when the game launched and thus conning you into spending much more than you bargained for.

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They took content that was once free and put a price tag on it.

 

Putting a price on the Twitch Prime collections or the Rip and Tear Pack is fine because those were already effectively purchase-only under special conditions. However, Series One was initially free event content and there was no indication when Events were first announced that their contents would be sold later. Now, new players have to pay extra to get access to the exact same cosmetics we got for free just because they missed out on some arbitrarily-defined time-limits. This only inconveniences newcomers or players with commitments. The only benefit is that these small-time purchases are a solution to a scarcity problem they invented.

 

Doom 2016 set the precedent when it gave away its paid MP DLC a year after launch for free, for everyone, forever (which included cosmetics such as armor sets and colors). That enhanced the game's value and accessibility for newcomers. Doom Eternal on the other hand has opted for free but time-limited events to encourage the fear-of-missing-out and then sell the free content later on without making any indication to players about the plan, even during the ICYMI event just only a week earlier. If they continue down this path for all (current) fifteen Series, that would be over $150 worth of microtransactions. And that price would only rise with every new Series. Doom Eternal is a fully-priced AAA game with two paid SP DLCs - it doesn't need to start charging people for content that was once free.

 

Not to mention that this has also broken Hugo's "no microtransaction" promise for Doom Eternal. Specifically, he mentions that "Eternal is a $60 game, not a free to play game or a mobile game - we are giving u a complete experience with no store just like you'd expect." Some have argued that because Doom Eternal still doesn't feature an in-game store or economy, so therefore there is no contradiction with Hugo's statement. However, that's just an argument on semantics. The spirit of Hugo's promise has been broken. The store is just on Steam instead of in-game. They added these small-time purchases a year after launch, that's why it's shocking because it goes against what Hugo established pre-launch and goes against an entire year of Doom Eternal without any such business model.

I've seen a common sentiment that this purchase option will allow players to catch up on cosmetics they may have otherwise missed. While technically true, it was id Software who put up the arbitrary time limits to the events in the first place. It's not just a dichotomy of "no event cosmetics ever again" or "put it on the store page". They could recycle events. They even had a precedent with this with the Hot Rod event (previously a Twitch Prime collection) and the ICYMI mini-event for Series One - both done just fairly recently. Alternatively, they could just make it a permanent unlock as part of in-game progression. That's the precedent set by Doom 2016's paid MP DLC being added to the game for free after a year: they revamped the multiplayer progression and put the once-exclusive cosmetic content as part of the progression. Instead for Doom Eternal, they artificially restricted a digital supply to drive demand. That's the only reason anybody "missed out" on these digital items.

 

I've also seen a common argument that these purchases are okay because they don't affect the gameplay. While that is true, I think it's missing the point. The big issue with these cosmetic purchases is that they: (1) were only added in a year after launch, (2) took artifically-restricted free content and put a price on it, (3) seemed to contradict Hugo's message from pre-launch, and (4) made no indication that there would be this type of purchase, even a week before during the ICYMI mini-event. The fact these purchases don't affect gameplay is irrelevant. It's the principle that matters. If they created exclusive skins that were purchasable from Doom Eternal's launch, that would be begrudgingly fine because there's the idea that these were at least made just for that type of purchase (ex: Twitch Prime collections or the Rip and Tear Pack contents) and that we understood Doom Eternal would support a business model like that from the very beginning. Rather, they are putting a price on previously free content without indicating they had such plans and waiting until after a whole year later to begin introducing them.

 

To summarize - in their pre-launch announcement of events and cosmetics, they made no indication of this business model or plan for event items, not even a week ago during the ICYMI mini-event. They already created the solution to this "what happens to event items?" dilemma with event re-runs or even earlier back with Doom 2016's model for retiring paid MP DLC. Instead, they chose for Doom Eternal to have artificially time-limited free digital items to encourage the fear-of-missing out and then arbitrarily locked those items away until a year later to put a price on them. Newcomers would have to pay for content we got for free. If this continues for all Event Series, these small-time purchases could add upwards of over $150 - on a fully priced triple-A single-player game with two paid SP DLCs. That shouldn't be acceptable and their approach to this business model comes off as deceptive.

 

Judging by the comments on YouTube and Reddit, if the Doom Eternal community remains largely apathetic or welcoming to these developments, this would only further encourage these practices in future Doom titles. In the past, the playerbase voiced their concerns about Denuvo implementation which led to its subsequent removal. Even back in 2016, the playerbase's overwhelming negative reaction to paid MP exclusive content likely led to it being given for free later on as well. The playerbase doesn't have to settle for Doom Eternal's microtransactions either just because it's commonplace in the industry or "it doesn't matter" because it doesn't impact gameplay. Ideally, the Series collections shouldn't be for sale at all and instead should either be rotated through event re-runs or permanently available to unlock in-game via Doom Levels or Milestones.

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47 minutes ago, Biodegradable said:

Fairly certain the only person that wins in this scenario is the game publisher who got to suck the extra coins out of your wallet for content that honestly should've been available when the game launched and thus conning you into spending much more than you bargained for.

 

Who says that it should've been available when the game launched? It's just a cosmetic reward for playing, that does not affect in any way the gameplay. There are some people that prefer playing the game to get them (like me), there are others that prefer the easy way and pay for them. But at the end of the day, you have the same experience playing with or without skins.

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6 minutes ago, Martin-CAI said:

It's just a cosmetic reward for playing

 

But it isn't a reward for playing, is it? You have to pay for it independently from the base game. Back in the day, it absolutely would've been a cute unlockable bonus for fun. But now they put that kind of thing behind a paywall. 

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7 minutes ago, Biodegradable said:

 

But it isn't a reward for playing, is it? You have to pay for it independently from the base game. Back in the day, it absolutely would've been a cute unlockable bonus for fun. But now they put that kind of thing behind a paywall. 

No one has to buy these though- it's an option available as I have no doubt people that came in later than the time the skin was available were complaining that they didn't have the skin. An option is not a bad thing. This would be a much different conversation if the people who already earned the skin then had to go back and pay for it. As said before, how is it fair that the people who earned it by playing the game are being joined by people who earned the skins without the experience?
I'm seriously uncomfortable with how these cosmetics are being referred to as microtransactions- microtransactions are actually more consistent of things that help you get ahead in the game (like every free mobile game ever seems to have). These are literally just things to make Doomguy cute. That's it.

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1 minute ago, Biodegradable said:

But it isn't a reward for playing, is it? You have to pay for it. Back in the day, it absolutely would've been a cute unlockable bonus for fun. But now they put that kind of thing behind a paywall. 

 

It is for those that want it to be a reward, which means playing the game. For those that just want to tune their things without speding hours, they have to spend a certain amount of money that those that just played the game didn't. You can get it for free or paying for it. It's up to you.

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5 minutes ago, Martin-CAI said:

It is for those that want it to be a reward, which means playing the game. For those that just want to tune their things without speding hours, they have to spend a certain amount of money that those that just played the game didn't. You can get it for free or paying for it. It's up to you.

 

Oh I see. So it is unlockable then, eh? I must've misread a bit because it sounded like it was something that was once earned, then stuck behind a paywall later on. If the paying thing is just a shortcut then I guess that's whatever.

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It's possible that Series 1 will be run again at some point, so in that case it one could still get it for free in the same way that you could when the game was first released. But what about when there are no more series being created? Will the paid DLCs then be the only way to get them, requiring one to spend up to $150 as @AtimZarr1 has pointed out? I really hope not.

I really hope that they change course and do something more like what happened with 2016's MP DLC.

The question of what happens to this kind of thing is something that we as paying customers deserve to know. We don't need more promises, because no matter what Hugo says he can be overridden. We need clarity as to what the higher-ups at Microsoft and Bethesda currently have planned for the future of Doom Eternal.

I think the reaction to this among the wider Doom community has been muted for a couple of reasons. One being an increasing weariness with drama, an impression I was particularly left with after watching UnderTheMayo's video on the subject. I can't say that I blame anyone for that, the past year and a half hasn't been great for most people and having tiresome bullshit repeatedly crop up in one's escapist hobby is bound to be dispiriting. Another is the fact that there are only two of these mini-DLCs so far, with one of them previously only available as a Twitch Prime exclusive, so you were always paying for it anyways. But will Doom players remain so apathetic as the number of these mini-DLCs increases, as they surely intend to do?

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54 minutes ago, NoXion said:

I think the reaction to this among the wider Doom community has been muted for a couple of reasons. One being an increasing weariness with drama, an impression I was particularly left with after watching UnderTheMayo's video on the subject. I can't say that I blame anyone for that, the past year and a half hasn't been great for most people and having tiresome bullshit repeatedly crop up in one's escapist hobby is bound to be dispiriting. Another is the fact that there are only two of these mini-DLCs so far, with one of them previously only available as a Twitch Prime exclusive, so you were always paying for it anyways. But will Doom players remain so apathetic as the number of these mini-DLCs increases, as they surely intend to do?


It's not necesary only being muted for that, it's because it's only a SKIN for DoomSlayer.

Imagine, if instead of the Skins, was stuff like Master Levels, where we get the first 3 for free, now the rest it's behind a paywall, that's would be fair more controversial that a Pony Skin.

And second, the existence of a Series 1 Challenges to unlock those skins, may also be a precedent for the same being to a Series 2, that will be the same, make the challenges, unlock the stuff. if not, you will need to wait to be back in rotation, or just buy it.

 

Quote

Doom 2016 set the precedent when it gave away its paid MP DLC a year after launch for free, for everyone, forever (which included cosmetics such as armor sets and colors). That enhanced the game's value and accessibility for newcomers.

If they continue down this path for all (current) fifteen Series, that would be over $150 worth of microtransactions. And that price would only rise with every new Series. Doom Eternal is a fully-priced AAA game with two paid SP DLCs - it doesn't need to start charging people for content that was once free.



To a counterpoint for @AtimZarr1, the DLC was free once all stuff was over, but looking how Doom Eternal it's still being played for more that 1 year, and still with plans like Invasion mode. They can't do the same stuff yet. Maybe if the game was not so good to play, after the DLC they just would drop development in Eternal and make they stuff free again and gg. But well, it's seems its the best doom for the time being, so they would want to have more opportunity to sell DLC, like they do with Doom 2016 (they selled MP Maps, Skins, and weapons and was behind a paywall until they know that don't work) so maybe if just the time to vote with you wallet and make others people make the same vote.


It's also common sense, do I really need to drop $+60 (counting all the future skins if the game without discount mind you, where the price may drop 50% or more in Steam Sales) in a game for the skins, even if I'm not playing a future Invasion Mode, Battle Mode, and just go with the campaign 4 or 5 times at year? Sadly if people think they need that skins for 100% Satisfaction, they are looking in the wrong ways, and may need helping for others persons and users in they habits of speeding money. This it's mostly present in games where MP is the main mode, like Chun Li fornite for an example, but the same time, the majority of Fornite players don't buy all the skins, they buy at least 2 or 3 for they are liking. We should have the same mentality instead of the 100% All.

 

Quote

Oh I see. So it is unlockable then, eh? I must've misread a bit because it sounded like it was something that was once earned, then stuck behind a paywall later on. If the paying thing is just a shortcut then I guess that's whatever.

@Biodegradable
If the series 1 precedent if to take, there will be always skins to unlock for seasonal events and single players achievements (Like the Ultra Nigthmare TAG Slayer), it's just the funnies skins that are behind first to a TIMEWALL, then to a PAYWALL, with the possibility to go around again to a TIMEWALL Challenge

 

And i understand how people are mad, in Corporation with others companys that do stuff like sell you red dots for 1$ (Call of Duty Modern Warfare), or ultra sexy skins that attract the hornyness to buy it (Again, Chun Li Skin).

 

At least when Loot Boxes were banned in a majority of the country because of gambling, many company's changed they aspect. And those times were worse, because if you wanted a new weapon or character, was behind a paywall, and a luck machine. And remember, that changed because people voted with they money and logical troughs.

Edited by D4NUK1 : More Words

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Posted (edited)

The mental gymnastics of some people (mostly on Reddit and Discord) both amuse and horrify me:
 

Spoiler

>it's just a nerf
>it's just skins
>it's just a 5 second pop-up
===YOU ARE HERE===
>it's just a game-breaking bug
>it just works
>it's just a master level DLC
>it's just an ingame store
>it's just a battle royale mode

2123700917_.png.3ba7388d8e5934c899a5c0ea70aad051.png


As to Hugo breaking his promise, regardless if it's due to powers beyond his control or not - if he has any integrity on this matter, all he should do is come out and admit his mistake. If all this shebang was out of his control, people would gladly understand and move on. We all can screw up and say things we shouldn't have said for some publicity points.

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1 hour ago, Vic Vos said:

The mental gymnastics of some people (mostly on Reddit and Discord) both amuse and horrify me:

You should probably also try and figure out how to get "bootlicking" in there somewhere, because I've seen plenty of that too...

 

5 hours ago, Major Arlene said:

No one has to buy these though- it's an option available as I have no doubt people that came in later than the time the skin was available were complaining that they didn't have the skin. An option is not a bad thing. This would be a much different conversation if the people who already earned the skin then had to go back and pay for it. As said before, how is it fair that the people who earned it by playing the game are being joined by people who earned the skins without the experience?

How is it fair that people who weren't there to earn the skin are now being charged money instead of being given the opportunity/option to earn them like others have before them..?

 

And how is there an """""option""""? Anybody who wants the skin has - in the most literal sense possible - no choice but to buy them, because there is no other way to acquire the goods... And not buying the skin changes nothing about the desire to have it... The only people who happen to have an actual option are those who don't care about the skin, because they can take it or leave it without there being a bitter aftertaste in their mouths...

 

5 hours ago, Major Arlene said:

I'm seriously uncomfortable with how these cosmetics are being referred to as microtransactions- microtransactions are actually more consistent of things that help you get ahead in the game (like every free mobile game ever seems to have). These are literally just things to make Doomguy cute. That's it.

And loot boxes are "surprise mechanics", am I right..?

 

Let's ask the almighty internet what Microtransactions are...

Spoiler

 

https://www.investopedia.com/articles/investing/022216/how-microtransactions-are-evolving-economics-gaming.asp

Quote

What Is a Microtransaction?

 

A microtransaction is a business model where users can purchase virtual items for small amounts of money. Microtransactions often appear in free-to-play games, meaning there is no cost to download the game, just a cost to buy the online virtual products.

 

LOL allows for the purchase of Riot Points, and this in-game currency is then used to buy skins, which are different aesthetic choices for the in-game characters. The in-game currency can also be used to unlock different characters. These options can often be unlocked with extended gameplay, but the microtransactions offer an incentive to unlock them quickly.

 

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Microtransaction

Quote

Microtransactions, often abbreviated as MTX, are a business model where users can purchase virtual goods with micropayments. Microtransactions are often used in free-to-play games to provide a revenue source for the developers. While microtransactions are a staple of the mobile app market, they are also seen on PC software such as Valve's Steam digital distribution platform, as well as console gaming.

 

https://www.npr.org/2021/03/11/975765363/microtransactions-are-great-for-game-companies-less-fun-for-players

Quote

Microtransactions come in all shapes and sizes. Most of the time they're simply cosmetic, like buying a swanky set of rainbow armor for your avatar. Other times they affect actual gameplay; a player might buy an upgrade that puts them in a better position to beat an opponent online.

When it comes to cosmetic in-game purchases, most players don't seem to mind. Spending money simply to change how your character looks doesn't affect gameplay itself, so why should it matter?

 

It matters to gamers like Filip Eriksson –– one of those flabbergasted Assassin's Creed fans –– who recently went viral on Reddit for posting about his frustration with the new AC game.

 

"There are now 9 armor sets in the microtransaction store –– just as many as in the entire base game." Eriksson said in his post. "Are we just gonna let this slide?"

 

Visuals are important to players. When they buy a game, they expect an escape, a journey into some unknown world filled with action and adventure. And the scenic terrains aren't the only visuals that matter.

 

https://pay-lobby.com/en/guides-payment/online-payment/microtransactions-in-gaming

Quote

What are microtransactions?

 

Microtransactions is a business model allowing players to buy virtual goods via micropayments. By definition, it refers to small value financial transaction being made in digital games and apps. These are presented as a way to extend a game’s replay value beyond the initial purchase. In its simplest form, gamers access a store, within the app or game, were they can buy virtual goods or currencies with their credit card. Microtransactions have been around for over a decade.

 

Meaning of virtual goods

 

The non-physical objects or virtual money purchased can be used in-game. Items and features can be cosmetic (i.e. clothing or skins) or functional (i.e. items or characters) and might be exclusively available through purchase. Virtual goods are often sold on social medias, community sites, or in online games.

 

 

 

 

Google gave me about 1.540.000 results when I searched for "what are microtransactions in video games"... I don't think we need to go over all of them...

 

 

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Of those four definitions, three of them reference in-game currency and/or an in-game storefront. The odd one out, the Wikipedia article, has a History section that also talks about buying in-game currency for real cash and in-game storefronts. It also mentions lootboxes.
 

26 minutes ago, Nine Inch Heels said:

How is it fair that people who weren't there to earn the skin are now being charged money instead of being given the opportunity/option to earn them like others have before them..?


Do we know for a fact that they won't re-run Series 1 again?

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1 minute ago, NoXion said:

Do we know for a fact that they won't re-run Series 1 again?

We know for a fact they're not doing it now, and selling something now, only to make it available for free later would probably raise even more eyebrows than is the case right now...

 

2 minutes ago, NoXion said:

Of those four definitions, three of them reference in-game currency and/or an in-game storefront. The odd one out, the Wikipedia article, has a History section that also talks about buying in-game currency for real cash and in-game storefronts. It also mentions lootboxes.

So? How does that take away from cosmetics qualifying as MTXs?

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2 hours ago, Vic Vos said:

regardless if it's due to powers beyond his control or not, he should do is come out and admit his mistake. We all can screw up and say things we shouldn't have said for some publicity points.

what mistake? the mistake of Bethesda/Microsoft not respecting his desire not to have microtransactions? he has no control over that. it should be the hire ups who need to issue an apology. 

 

we get it, Hugo is everything WRONG with Doom. he's part of a conspiracy to ruin doom with micro transactions and skins. Thank you for exposing us to this TRUTH.

Edited by jazzmaster9

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Just now, Nine Inch Heels said:

We know for a fact they're not doing it now, and selling something now, only to make it available for free later would probably raise even more eyebrows than is the case right now...


The only case where will be reruns would be really a long time after the development of anything related to doom eternal cease to be worked. Just in comparative how company make a final try to had players in the game. (Mostly selling the game with all the DLC Free) and older players getting the content. But that's something that happens in some games. With how they do it with Doom 2016 may have only a slight chance (some users also brought those DLC before was free). But the concerns it's really there, and I understand you point, because Doom Eternal out-sold 2016 it's a reason to no give that chance to release for free, but it's too early for myself say that would  be re-runs, and follows more for you points of leaving the store with the Skins to buy (Because it's not that game changer that the old 2016 DLC that's happens to give Weapons, Maps, and Skins)

 

 

Just now, jazzmaster9 said:

We get it, Hugo is everything WRONG with Doom. he's part of a conspiracy to ruin doom with micro transactions and skins. Thank you for exposing us to this TRUTH.

 

 

Hugo soon enough will show us all the true meaning of the fun zone /s
 

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44 minutes ago, Nine Inch Heels said:

We know for a fact they're not doing it now, and selling something now, only to make it available for free later would probably raise even more eyebrows than is the case right now...

 

They could still do the 2016 thing of making them available through some kind of gameplay progression later on. Why would doing what has been done before raise any eyebrows?
 

44 minutes ago, Nine Inch Heels said:

So? How does that take away from cosmetics qualifying as MTXs?


Because Eternal doesn't have a virtual currency, an in-game storefront or any kind of lootbox mechanics. You just buy a set of items directly, outside of the game. Those are the hooks placed right within the game that make MTX so exploitative.

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4 minutes ago, NoXion said:

They could still do the 2016 thing of making them available through some kind of gameplay progression later on. Why would doing what has been done before raise any eyebrows?

Here's how this would go down: They make those available later, because incompetence knows no bounds. Suddenly, you have a situation where some people paid for something that others were able to obtain for free - yet again - then, those who paid will be upset about having paid for something that has been given away to others pro bono at a later point, meaning, those who came later, and could either "earn" the skins or purchase them were at an advantage over anybody who did not have access to earning the skins in-game... It's always a problem when that happens, because digital goods don't "decay" or "rust" like tangible goods do.

 

 

8 minutes ago, NoXion said:

Because Eternal doesn't have a virtual currency, an in-game storefront or any kind of lootbox mechanics. You just buy a set of items directly, outside of the game. Those are the hooks placed right within the game that make MTX so exploitative.

That's some top-level smokescreening you're doing there... Virtual currency has no bearing on whether or not something is a microtransaction... Path of Exile has a point system, points you exchange for MTXs, points you can only get by way of spending money. It's just a psychological trick to draw attention away from the process of spending actual money, and it doesn't matter if those points, or any other in-game currency can be earned, because games like Starwars Battlefront made it clear that developers will make it a point to create such a mind-numbing and tedious grind that spending real money is, relatively, more attractive.

 

The presence or absence of a storefront is, for all intents and purposes, a moot point. The game is not (yet) in a spot where paywalled MTXs are so numerous that an ingame interface is a worthwhile investment. It's still "small amounts of real money paid for digital goods which are in the game already", such as custom skins. And no amount nitpicking or mental gymnastics is going to change that very simple reality.

 

How "aggressively" the current MTXs are marketed is also not relevant, in the best case it merely puts this game ahead of more aggressive "marketing machines", but it's still MTXs we're talking about here. This is not a DLC, the skins are in the game right now, no matter if you bought them or not, it's not like you pay a sum of money in order to be able to download something that is then being added to the game.

 

Arlene's notion that "MTXs are this but not that" based on the arbitrary standard that a "gameplay advantage" needs to be present is the very same as Dragonfly's demonstrably false statement that "it's just cosmetic", and therefore people needed to get over it.

 

Anything that increases the enjoyment of a game, which is why games are played to begin with, is relevant. How aggressively things are being marketed is irrelevant to this very basic matter of fact.

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Posted (edited)

It's OK for me. Basically they are giving people who didn't want to do the challenges the opportunity to access the skins too. 

 

Selling year 1 content makes a year 2 pass or even additional DLCs more likely because Doom Eternal has not ended yet. 

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I think the Game will drop soon into the 5€ Sphere as Doom 2016 did and this is a good Way to get the Money out of People that didn't payed more or less the full Price.

 

There is Bethesda and Microsoft behind ID, i am very sure they have to achieve some Goals to pleasure Investors in the End.

Doom Eternal was a risky Move, since it is no mainstream Game.

Such freedom in Development can't be truly free, there has to be a Plan to monetize it in Waves.

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8 hours ago, AtimZarr1 said:

Judging by the comments on YouTube and Reddit, if the Doom Eternal community remains largely apathetic or welcoming to these developments, this would only further encourage these practices in future Doom titles. In the past, the playerbase voiced their concerns about Denuvo implementation which led to its subsequent removal. Even back in 2016, the playerbase's overwhelming negative reaction to paid MP exclusive content likely led to it being given for free later on as well. The playerbase doesn't have to settle for Doom Eternal's microtransactions either just because it's commonplace in the industry or "it doesn't matter" because it doesn't impact gameplay. Ideally, the Series collections shouldn't be for sale at all and instead should either be rotated through event re-runs or permanently available to unlock in-game via Doom Levels or Milestones.

 

FWIW, the Doom Eternal Youtube channels seem somewhat evenly split on this issue so far. Mayo and hmmmp don't really care, Allstin isn't happy about it but is trying to have a balanced viewpoint, Cynic sees it as id breaking their promise. All of these guys are people Hugo has done interviews with recently, or has stated he will in the future, so it might be worth something if someone like Cynic is able to discuss it openly with him on stream.

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1 minute ago, Nine Inch Heels said:

Here's how this would go down: They make those available later, because incompetence knows no bounds. Suddenly, you have a situation where some people paid for something that others were able to obtain for free - yet again - then, those who paid will be upset about having paid for something that has been given away to others pro bono at a later point, meaning, those who came later, and could either "earn" the skins or purchase them were at an advantage over anybody who did not have access to earning the skins in-game... It's always a problem when that happens, because digital goods don't "decay" or "rust" like tangible goods do.


Did a big stink happen when 2016's paid MP DLCs were made free? If it did then I missed it.
 

 

4 minutes ago, Nine Inch Heels said:

That's some top-level smokescreening you're doing there... Virtual currency has no bearing on whether or not something is a microtransaction... Path of Exile has a point system, points you exchange for MTXs, points you can only get by way of spending money. It's just a psychological trick to draw attention away from the process of spending actual money, and it doesn't matter if those points, or any other in-game currency can be earned, because games like Starwars Battlefront made it clear that developers will make it a point to create such a mind-numbing and tedious grind that spending real money is, relatively, more attractive.


Yes, and Eternal does not have any points or currency system, it does not use psychological tricks to separate spending the money from getting the skins. You pay money, you get skins, at least that's how it's supposed to work. There's no grind you're paying to avoid.

The point of the in-game storefront is to make it easy for the player start spending and keep spending money on the game. I think having to go to the Steam page gives people more time to actually think about their purchase. If they add in an in-game storefront later, then I'll stop playing completely. Maybe you draw your lines differently, but for me I don't think the line has been crossed from ordinary commerce into undue exploitation.

The items they are selling are in the game, but their availability has always been limited due to the nature of being part of regular challenges. It's not like they're pulling a Mass Effect 3 and gating off an major part of the single player experience behind day one DLC.

 

I have already missed out on a whole bunch of stuff (slayer skins, podiums etc) that's in the game, because as much as I would like to use those bits of the game, I have other things to do and so most of the time I don't even get to complete all the challenges. Would I pay extra to get access to them on demand? No, I'm not that bothered.

I disagree that the aggressiveness of the marketing doesn't matter. Sufficiently aggressive marketing is one of the ways in trade can become just a more sophisticated form of theft. But that level of arm-twisting isn't what's on display in this case. Maybe you're right and the executives are rubbing their hands with glee at the prospect of stuffing Doom Eternal with all kinds of exploitative revenue generation schemes. I'd be lying if said that I wasn't worried about the current direction of travel. But that hasn't happened yet.

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22 minutes ago, NoXion said:

Yes, and Eternal does not have any points or currency system, it does not use psychological tricks to separate spending the money from getting the skins. You pay money, you get skins, at least that's how it's supposed to work. There's no grind you're paying to avoid.

The point of the in-game storefront is to make it easy for the player start spending and keep spending money on the game. I think having to go to the Steam page gives people more time to actually think about their purchase. If they add in an in-game storefront later, then I'll stop playing completely. Maybe you draw your lines differently, but for me I don't think the line has been crossed from ordinary commerce into undue exploitation.

Of course there's no grind people can buy their way around at the moment, that's not what the example was about, however, that is something that is prone to happening if MTX-centric monetization is part of the design process of, say, a follow up title...

 

The point of the example was to clarify that in-game currencies, or lack thereof, have no bearing on what is or isn't a microtransaction, because your line arguing made it seem as though you were of the opinion that "where there's no in-game currency, there's also no MTX", even though the only noticeable distinction is what you already said yourself in the next paragraph: It is more convenient when there's a point system and a storefront, but convenience is not a qualifier for what's MTX and what's not.

 

If anything, the absence of an in-game storefront is indicative that a given game has not been designed with an MTX-centric monetization in mind right out the gate, which I'm willing to hold in id's favour until the situation changes - if it does - but that also no bearing whether or not something is a microtransaction.

 

22 minutes ago, NoXion said:

Maybe you draw your lines differently, but for me I don't think the line has been crossed from ordinary commerce into undue exploitation

To which I would add a very careful "yet", because, for all we know, they might just be testing the waters...

 

22 minutes ago, NoXion said:

I disagree that the aggressiveness of the marketing doesn't matter. Sufficiently aggressive marketing is one of the ways in trade can become just a more sophisticated form of theft. But that level of arm-twisting isn't what's on display in this case.

Just to clarify, of course there is a difference between aggressive marketing and something that requires making a purchase on a third party digital store, however, and this is what the point of my argument was: Even if not marketed aggressively, it's still an MTX.

 

22 minutes ago, NoXion said:

I'd be lying if said that I wasn't worried about the current direction of travel. But that hasn't happened yet.

And I agree, which makes the "get over it" rhetoric alongside deflections like "it's just cosmetic" so utterly baffling to me...

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One has to wonder, what does actually make a microtransaction... well, one? What makes "here's some additional content you can pay for" go from DLC to MTX or vice versa? We could argue that MTXs don't really "add", just "unlock", but in this day and age all sorts of games (especially MP ones) always include the downloadable content anyways even if you don't own it (as an example, Total War Warhammer updates the game whenever a new race gets added, even though you can't play it directly without the required DLC).

 

Let's get this out of the way: if DOOM Eternal ended up with a storefront, a bunch of advertisements in the main menu for new MTX or, in the worst case, add some sort of ingame currency, I'd hate that. I'd probably ignore them and enjoy the game, but they'd surely leave a bad taste and I'd vouch against their inclusion.

Also, let's be honest: 5€ for a skin and related goodies is a bit much.

 

But with that said I'm still very confused as to what people mean with "Microtransactions" in this context. Personally, I don't see it. There's no storefront, no "limited time only purchase" FOMO bullshit, it's literally just "did you miss these? You can get them now". If anything, the whole Twitch Prime exclusivity / Timewall could be criticized (up to a point - and it has been criticized anyways), at most I could see the addition of a purchase option as "unfair" for those that "earned them" but come on, I feel petty just writing that.

 

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