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OpenRift

Doom Eternal fans give games journalists too much of their energy.

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Honestly, I think it's a bit stupid the amount of effort some Doom Eternal fans will put into making what are basically video essays about "Why (gaming journalism outlet)'s review of Doom Eternal is bad". Like, yeah, don't get me wrong, there's some stupid shit, but also they have very little if not zero affect on gamer's opinions, or anybody playing or looking to play really, because chances are most people don't go to IGN or whatever for reviews, it's always either for news or trailers. Almost nobody cares about their reviews, just like how almost nobody cares about big movie critic reviews. So why even give them the energy? It's not like any sizeable amount of people listen to them anyway. If they want an impression of a game, they'll look to user reviews on Steam or whatever or independent reviewers.

 

It's just so petty that some fans will write a manifesto about how game journalists who criticize Doom Eternal are all wrong and deserve to be flogged or some shit like that. Like who the hell cares? Just play the game, they have no affect on you. Putting all your energy towards calling out some journalists half-baked review (probably because of the industry's excessive work culture) is not worth your time. 

Edited by OpenRift

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4 hours ago, OpenRift said:

Almost nobody cares about their reviews, just like how almost nobody cares about big movie critic reviews. So why even give them the energy?

too much free time because of the pandemic

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I assume those grew up watching drama/commentary YTers, so they're copying what they're used to as far as content goes.

 

It does seem like you see more people making fun of game journalists over Doom Eternal, than game journos themselves talking about Eternal. (because they're already embarrasing themselves doing other things)

Besides it being overdone, i can see other reasons why people are getting tired of it coming from Doom fans.

On one hand, it feels like overcompensation from players that used to play more mainstream/casual games, so Doom is the "hardcore" series for them, even if it's not that obscure.

On another, it feels like fanboyism/brand loyality (support X or you're an Y) over a series that became triple A.

 

Because it's not like Doom is an "underdog" compared to something like God Hand on the PS2, an actual niche game, that actually commercially flopped and has an infamous IGN review.

It can be annoying because videogame journalists always had problems for years and making fun of them being overdone can hurt pointing out actual problems.

Which means we're close (or already reached) a point where you can't properly criticize someone's misinformed article or biased review, because how you feel about it is associated with someone annoying.

 

Doom Eternal also has mostly high scores from gaming sites, so the journos that have silly reasons to hate the game might as well be a small group given too much attention.

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5 minutes ago, whatup876 said:

I assume those grew up watching drama/commentary YTers, so they're copying what they're used to as far as content goes.

  

It does seem like you see more people making fun of game journalists over Doom Eternal, than game journos themselves talking about Eternal. (because they're already embarrasing themselves doing other things)

 Besides it being overdone, i can see other reasons why people are getting tired of it coming from Doom fans.

 On one hand, it feels like overcompensation from players that used to play more mainstream/casual games, so Doom is the "hardcore" series for them, even if it's not that obscure.

 On another, it feels like fanboyism/brand loyality (support X or you're an Y) over a series that became triple A.

  

Because it's not like Doom is an "underdog" compared to something like God Hand on the PS2, an actual niche game, that actually commercially flopped and has an infamous IGN review.

 It can be annoying because videogame journalists always had problems for years and making fun of them being overdone can hurt pointing out actual problems.

 Which means we're close (or already reached) a point where you can't properly criticize someone's misinformed article or biased review, because how you feel about it is associated with someone annoying.

 

Doom Eternal also has mostly high scores from gaming sites, so the journos that have silly reasons to hate the game might as well be a small group given too much attention.

I think Doom Eternal is only "underdog" in terms of getting a quality game that's actually worth the full $60.

 

But yeah, I agree with you on this 100%.

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It's the inevitable conclusion of any "hardcore game" community. Same thing happened with Dark Souls 3. 

 

The cycle is the same:

 

1. Skill ceiling gets incredibly high in already difficult game

2. A weird game-cult forms around the game, where anyone who criticizes or takes issue with the game's difficulty is told to "git gud." Inevitably this goes back to game journalists for Doom because they dared criticize the epically designed masterpiece.

3. Community becomes unbearably toxic or elitist as a result.

 

If you don't believe any of this, look at the number of comments mocking people for saying Eternal has to be played one way on identical videos of quickswitching Marauders to death, or the countless videos of grown fucking men talking about those game journos that make them so mad like it's life or death. Thankfully it seems to have died off a small amount.

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1 hour ago, BunnyWithBeans said:

It's the inevitable conclusion of any "hardcore game" community. Same thing happened with Dark Souls 3. 

 

The cycle is the same:

 

1. Skill ceiling gets incredibly high in already difficult game

2. A weird game-cult forms around the game, where anyone who criticizes or takes issue with the game's difficulty is told to "git gud." Inevitably this goes back to game journalists for Doom because they dared criticize the epically designed masterpiece.

 3. Community becomes unbearably toxic or elitist as a result.

 

If you don't believe any of this, look at the number of comments mocking people for saying Eternal has to be played one way on identical videos of quickswitching Marauders to death, or the countless videos of grown fucking men talking about those game journos that make them so mad like it's life or death. Thankfully it seems to have died off a small amount.

Yeah. Like, Doom Eternal is definitely one of the harder AAA games out these days, which I'm happy about, but of course it's going to bring toxic pricks about to act like CSGO players. Not to say the Doom Eternal community is bad in it's entirety of course, that would be naive and unprincipled.

 

Thing is, I know some kooks that are like that in the classic Doom community as well. I don't really associate with them anymore, but that's another story. 

 

But I wanna emphasize that this is not a criticism of the DE community as a whole. It's more the people who play DE to 'own the libs' or something retarded like that.

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"Can't talk to the demons - 7/10" - EDGE Magazine, 1993

 

Personally, I don't take issue with journos pointing out the skill ceiling of a game. I only really roll my eyes when they denigrate it as a design fault, eg when they invoke things like "accessibility" to complain about how they are getting their arses handed to them by something like a Soulsborne title.

 

I'm not even really that hard on places like IGN. Yes, some of their gameplay footage is laughable, but I watched their TAG2 review and, while the gameplay wasn't great, the person playing at least showed an understanding of how to deal with encounters like the Marauder/Screecher platform, even going so far as using the tried and trusted SSG/Ballista combo.

 

Case in point - we've all seen the woeful Polygon footage from 2016, right? I once showed it to a friend of mine during a game night. He is more of a Division or Borderlands player (his favourite Doom is Doom 3, just for context), and he was like, "yeah, I'd have probably approached it the same way on my first go." I could see his point, if you're more used to duck-and-cover, stop-and-pop type gameplay, nuskool Doom is going to be completely alien to you.

 

Frankly, there are more pertinent reasons for taking the piss out of game journos, like when they write entire articles to attack players, to use a console overview as a platform for a nihilistic political rant, or to tell the world that they stick Switch controllers up their arse (yes, really).

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On 5/1/2021 at 9:07 PM, I Drink Lava said:

too much free time because of the pandemic

Nah, that stuff was par for the course long before that. I remember Jim Sterling decrying the same phenomenon back in 2012: 

 

 

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I wouldn't worry, it's just manchildren who feel that they're own some award for playing arguably one of the best doom games, and so anytime they're srs bisness gaem is given a negative review, they go insane.

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On 5/1/2021 at 1:17 PM, OpenRift said:

Honestly, I think it's a bit stupid the amount of effort some Doom Eternal fans will put into making what are basically video essays about "Why (gaming journalism outlet)'s review of Doom Eternal is bad". Like, yeah, don't get me wrong, there's some stupid shit, but also they have very little if not zero affect on gamer's opinions, or anybody playing or looking to play really, because chances are most people don't go to IGN or whatever for reviews, it's always either for news or trailers. Almost nobody cares about their reviews, just like how almost nobody cares about big movie critic reviews. So why even give them the energy? It's not like any sizeable amount of people listen to them anyway. If they want an impression of a game, they'll look to user reviews on Steam or whatever or independent reviewers.

 

It's just so petty that some fans will write a manifesto about how game journalists who criticize Doom Eternal are all wrong and deserve to be flogged or some shit like that. Like who the hell cares? Just play the game, they have no affect on you. Putting all your energy towards calling out some journalists half-baked review (probably because of the industry's excessive work culture) is not worth your time. 

 

I feel IGN has a tendency to too often give glowing reviews to games. That said, I DO use such sites not so much for their review opinion, but to see the gameplay itself being demonstrated from an average gamer's perspective. You really can't do that on Steam, unless you wade through a TON of reviews to find the few that might have links to a personal video review contained within (not sure they even allow that). Plus with Steam, you have only Like or Dislike options, which, like YouTube, makes it too simplified to even toss out highs and lows to get a more realistic aggregate of opinions.

 

At the end of the day, the only real way to see if you like a game is to play it, and at least Steam has that 2 hrs or less for a full refund policy, so you can sample them. For many games though, 2 hrs is not nearly enough to sample a game, performance wise or content wise, so it could also be very misleading. It also makes it easy for some less responsible developers to only make sure the first 2 hr segment of their games are near flawless, and put less attention in cleaning up the rest. Even WITH responsible devs, many games start out in smaller communities than those you progress to, so you may never see what performance or content the game has in just 2 hrs.

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1 hour ago, Frag Maniac said:

I feel IGN has a tendency to too often give glowing reviews to games.

Say that to God Hand.

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7 hours ago, Rudolph said:

Nah, that stuff was par for the course long before that. I remember Jim Sterling decrying the same phenomenon back in 2012: 

 

 

i love all the stuff jim stearling does but damn that man has some shit taste in games but i dont go around making vidoes saying how he sucks i just dont folloe his reviews because ive seen that his tastes are way too different from mine for his opinion to be worth a damn to me

honestely this cycle of hate is infinite even more when a game like cyberpunk comes out and reviewers shower it with good reviews and the masses hate it

for me this is all proof that review scores are a thing of the past and are only hurting the integrity of the journalists

nobody would have cared if a reviewer said "i dont like the difficult" instead of "7/10 game is too hard"

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2 hours ago, Frag Maniac said:

At the end of the day, the only real way to see if you like a game is to play it, and at least Steam has that 2 hrs or less for a full refund policy, so you can sample them. For many games though, 2 hrs is not nearly enough to sample a game, performance wise or content wise, so it could also be very misleading. It also makes it easy for some less responsible developers to only make sure the first 2 hr segment of their games are near flawless, and put less attention in cleaning up the rest. Even WITH responsible devs, many games start out in smaller communities than those you progress to, so you may never see what performance or content the game has in just 2 hrs.

this happened with no man's sky at launch

i like what the game has become now but the launch was so missleading and it was clear the had a focus on the early hours so you wouldint refund it (not that it worked but thats a tale for another time") so people bough the game had a wornderfull 2-3 hours exit the first star system and the fundations started to crack

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Game's not even that hard, I can't stand playing Soulsborne games because of how fucking slow they are, DE is much faster and I can handle it just fine so that comparison looks kind of silly to me, most of the people complaining about the difficulty probably started playing on NM without learning the gameplay loop first.

 

Oh no no mods, Oh no Denuvo, Oh no Battlemode, Oh no no Mick Gordon, Oh no TAG2 nerfed, Oh no Microtransactions, Oh no Toxic community

 

It's getting tiresome.

Edited by sluggard

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17 minutes ago, sluggard said:

Game's not even that hard, I can't stand playing Soulsborne games because of how fucking slow they are, DE is much faster and I can handle it just fine so that comparison looks kind of silly to me now, most of the people complaining about the difficulty probably started playing on NM without learning the gameplay loop first.

  

Oh no no mods, Oh no Denuvo, Oh no Battlemode, Oh no no Mick Gordon, Oh no TAG2 nerfed, Oh no Microtransactions, Oh no Toxic community

 

It's getting tiresome.

That's what it's like being a mainstream game again. Mainstream attention means mainstream drama.

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43 minutes ago, sluggard said:

Game's not even that hard, I can't stand playing Soulsborne games because of how fucking slow they are, DE is much faster and I can handle it just fine so that comparison looks kind of silly to me now, most of the people complaining about the difficulty probably started playing on NM without learning the gameplay loop first.

 

Oh no no mods, Oh no Denuvo, Oh no Battlemode, Oh no no Mick Gordon, Oh no TAG2 nerfed, Oh no Microtransactions, Oh no Toxic community

 

It's getting tiresome.

i remenber seeing a reviewer (upper echellon gamer i think) saying something like "the marauder is unfair to casuals playing on ultra violnce"

so yea people jump on uv and them complain its too hard or unfair

this happened with my brother on doom 2016 ge played level 1 on uv and they complained that "oh you are too weak" "you dont feel like a badass" "shotgun is garbage" and my favorite "battlefield has better level design"

people need to stop trying to prove their worth in videogames

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Gaming journalists are just the odd one out... To begin with, they can't really afford to "bash" titles of bigger studios, because then they won't receive a review copy, and at the same time, their job isn't playing games, their job is writing about games...

 

Furthermore, these journalists and their respective outlets approach the "review market" from a position of privilege, because most of the time, they receive review copies of a game long before the average Youtuber has an opportunity to actually even just install the game. The result is that, in order to compete with journalists, independent outlets/reviewers need to rush their reviews, which consequently comes at the expense of the consumer... So, this position of privilege (or just competitive advantage) poisons the well for everybody else ever so slightly...

 

Basically, gaming journos have an incentive to make games look better on paper than they really are, because if not they will be deprived of their privileges (which they depend on to stay "relevant"). That's is also why you see them side with studios instead of the players somewhat often. One such example would be cases where journos were crying for the hate against poor poor Blizzard to stop when they announced Diablo Immortal (which we all know didn't go down well), even going so far as to call the players "entitled pricks" instead of even engaging with any valid arguments these "pricks" would bring forth. And that's not the only example I could bring up here...

 

All things considered, gaming journos have an effect on everybody else, be it directly or indirectly, which is why """gamers""" and journos often lock horns, more or less out of principle... It's not something that's limited to Doom Eternal, it's a very broad and general issue, and it's not going away anytime soon, for that matter...

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2 hours ago, Edward850 said:

Say that to God Hand.

 

Well, I never said they don't unfairly bash other games at times, it's just that more often than not, their reviews are too generous.

 

Even with your example though, IGN allowed this to be posted on their site https://www.ign.com/articles/2019/05/08/in-defense-of-god-hand, albeit too late to account for any damage to sales they may have caused.

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On 5/1/2021 at 3:17 PM, OpenRift said:

 If they want an impression of a game, they'll look to user reviews on Steam or whatever or independent reviewers.

There's the problem, there's lazy people that won't even read the full review, or will just read the title, and think that the game is bad or shitty without doing some real research. I remember watching a video of a very bad game journalist playing Eternal, and sometimes thanks to those kind of reviewers people say stupid things of a good game.

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8 minutes ago, whatup876 said:

Lol, IGN literally made that article after SsethTzeentach made his review of that game.

 

Actually I wasn't defending IGN there if that's what you're thinking, only showing how they waffle, which any competitive journalist team does.

 

You know what sickens me most lately regarding any kind of journalism? It's when I constantly see TV commercials our local network news stations do blabbering on and on about "Telling the truth, it's all we do,...I'm so and so, I stand for the truth." We all know full well though that journalism is nothing but a very competitive business, and that all too often lines get crossed to compete for viewership.

 

This is why one of my fave Jake Gyllenhaal movies is Nightcrawler. Sure, it's an over the top thriller that takes liberties, but makes a good point none the less.

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Fans of the new doom games when someone makes a 17 hour response video essay about ign's 2 minute rushed and shitty review that was only made to meet a deadline

v_b.gif

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51 minutes ago, Nine Inch Heels said:

Gaming journalists are just the odd one out... To begin with, they can't really afford to "bash" titles of bigger studios, because then they won't receive a review copy, and at the same time, their job isn't playing games, their job is writing about games...

 

Furthermore, these journalists and their respective outlets approach the "review market" from a position of privilege, because most of the time, they receive review copies of a game long before the average Youtuber has an opportunity to actually even just install the game. The result is that, in order to compete with journalists, independent outlets/reviewers need to rush their reviews, which consequently comes at the expense of the consumer... So, this position of privilege (or just competitive advantage) poisons the well for everybody else ever so slightly...

 

Basically, gaming journos have an incentive to make games look better on paper than they really are, because if not they will be deprived of their privileges (which they depend on to stay "relevant"). That's is also why you see them side with studios instead of the players somewhat often. One such example would be cases where journos were crying for the hate against poor poor Blizzard to stop when they announced Diablo Immortal (which we all know didn't go down well), even going so far as to call the players "entitled pricks" instead of even engaging with any valid arguments these "pricks" would bring forth. And that's not the only example I could bring up here...

 

All things considered, gaming journos have an effect on everybody else, be it directly or indirectly, which is why """gamers""" and journos often lock horns, more or less out of principle... It's not something that's limited to Doom Eternal, it's a very broad and general issue, and it's not going away anytime soon, for that matter...

this thing about rushed reviews is so true

i remenber seeing a ocarina of time 3d retrospective and the guy complained that the game was way too obscure and he needed a guide the entire video

it really is not confusing and he just assumed that because he rushed everything and the clues didnt have time to click (or make sense) in his head

also cyberpunk happened a game that everyone said was the most imersive open world but with a closer look the game is very fake with npcs being very dumb ai not working properly and one of the worse police systems in a crime game

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I think one of the most detrimental aspects of games journalism is review scores and for quite a few reasons. No, I don't feel like getting into all of them right now, but maybe I will one day.

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I tend to see game reviewers for what they are: people with opinions. Unless they say something truly bigoted and legitimately harmful, I do not have a problem with them. If anything, hearing about their work conditions and all the pressure they have to deal with, I can only sympathize.

 

"Don't hate the player, hate the game", as the saying goes.

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Commentary has been a thing for at least a decade on YouTube, if people got something to say about a topic, they're going to say it. It may not be interesting to you but it's just a way for people to get what they need to off their chest. Unless the commentary is not well-cited or is implicitly harmful or bigoted, you're just wasting your energy criticizing them.

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24 minutes ago, Major Arlene said:

Commentary has been a thing for at least a decade on YouTube, if people got something to say about a topic, they're going to say it. It may not be interesting to you but it's just a way for people to get what they need to off their chest. Unless the commentary is not well-cited or is implicitly harmful or bigoted, you're just wasting your energy criticizing them.

Well the thing is, it's not very good commentary. It's more like outrage commentary than something actually insightful.

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11 minutes ago, OpenRift said:

Well the thing is, it's not very good commentary. It's more like outrage commentary than something actually insightful.


And it's up to the viewers to decide. And comparing 2 Doom Eternal fans or reviewers videos, you see the most popular are the one that talk in a objective and positive way that's the ones that are bashing others style play style. So as community we can filter ourselves that's kind of videos.

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