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[PhantomFool765]

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Edited December 24, 2022 by PhantomFool765

[Stabbey]

Play more maps. Seeing what cool things other mappers have done should make you say "oh that's a cool/interesting trick" at least once.

[stewboy]

Playing more maps is the easiest way. Other things you can do, in order of how abstracted they are, include:

 - Playing other 3D games, and looking closely at their level/gameplay design - if you dislike a particular game, figure out exactly why that is
 - Watching video essays on game/level design - e.g. Game Maker's Toolkit, Adam Millard, Joseph Anderson, but there'll be plenty more

 - Looking at real-life architecture in general - different styles/periods, famous examples, and also just normal architecture around where you live

 - Looking at art in general - go to galleries, look up random artists online that you hear about, see which sorts of art inspire you and which sorts you hate

 - Looking at life in general - think about how people work, figure out the purpose of existence, prove/disprove hard solipsism
 

[Kappes Buur]

This affliction could also be a result of the type of mapping format you use. Mapping for DOOM/2 or BOOM can, in some cases, lead to bland pwads, as is evidenced mainly by 'See here, I made my first map' . A lot of effort is required to make a map interesting, examples of this are Ancient Aliens, Interception, Can't Run Frm Evil, Aeternum, BTSX, Paranoid, just to mention of few.

 

However, using a different mapping format such as Doom in Hexen or UDMF can make a huge difference, where sectors can be coloured, similar to Doom64. Colours and light differences can make even a simple room look interesting. Plus, in advanced sourceports, new weapons and monsters can break the monotony of the regular fare.

 

As already suggested, play some maps, take note of what you like or don't, and use those positive aspects in your maps. Check out maps, good or bad, in an editor to see how it was done.

 

And finally, this is crucial, Know Thy Editor ™. By this I mean, exploit every feature which the editor has to offer to make mapping easier. For example: a mostly unknown feature of UDB is the Paint Selection Tool. It does not paint in the conventional way, instead it can highlight a collection of adjacent entities by simply moving the mouse cursor over them instead of clicking on them one at a time.

Edited May 4, 2021 by Kappes Buur

[ReX]

11 hours ago, PhantomFool765 said:

So I just wanna know if there's anything I can really do to improve my maps

Here are some very general ideas that might help you.

[roadworx]

oh god same, you described my experience mapping down to a tee

 

if your memory and creativity is as bad as mine (and the way you describe it, it sounds like it), then very little of the advice people are giving you is gonna work. because you're just gonna immediately forget all of it or not know how to use it. when i went around searching for how to get better and not be creatively bankrupt, all the answers just frustrated me. like, how do you expect me to remember this piece of art, or this map, or this whatever the fuck when my memory is completely shot?? i can't, and i'm assuming you can't either

 

what i've started doing is writing down interesting encounters i come across, taking screenshots of nice detailing and architecture, and adding to an ever-expanding list of maps that i like. i've found it to be incredibly helpful, although it unfortunately doesn't help much with coming up with layouts. another thing that works for me (it may not work for you tho) is that i try to go for patterns and abide by a set of rules at all times. having a certain internal logic to what you're doing can really help quite a bit, although that may be more cuz i'm neurodivergent than anything

 

also - and this is a big one - i started collecting links to threads that discuss monster placement and concepts in game design. i suck ass at abstract concepts, so i need direct answers, not some weird shit. i need to know the specific roles of each monster, their strengths, their weaknesses, etc, and have it be told to me in a direct manner without any ambiguity whatsoever. i can give them to you if you want, they help me both come up with stuff as well as get better at mapping in general. i also have a txt file containing a bunch of stuff that i can give as well

Edited May 5, 2021 by roadworx

[Major Arlene]

I've said this a few times- mapping is like farting. If you have to force it, it's probably shit. That said- write down any ideas you may have, look at buildings, and above all, watch how other people map. I've found myself endlessly fascinated watching mappers livestream their work ( @Bridgeburner56 being one of the best examples). hearing how people do the ins and outs of their processes can take a lot of the mystery out of how all those fantastic maps are made. I also find reverse-engineering other works for their techniques can be helpful in showing myself new or better ways to do things.

[Biodegradable]

37 minutes ago, Major Arlene said:

Doom mapping is like farting. If you have to force it, it's probably shit.

 

I dare you to stick that on a t-shirt and sell it on your merch store, fam.

[Jimmy]

 

[Major Arlene]

6 hours ago, Biodegradable said:

 

I dare you to stick that on a t-shirt and sell it on your merch store, fam.

Only if you promise to buy it ;p

[The Final Event]

When mapping, I operate under the mantra of "This is the kind of map I want to play", that way I don't have to be creative at all and all I have to do is play towards my taste.

 

I know that's not super helpful but try to put into words the kind of map you want to play, and try your hand at making it. That's what keeps me running through my absence of creativity

[PhantomFool765]

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Edited December 24, 2022 by PhantomFool765

[rescue86k]

You don't have to be too creative if you don't want to. You can recreate real life things . It requires going out to google , pick a concept art of some landscape or something, and mimicked the best you can what you see

[nrofl]

On 5/4/2021 at 5:19 AM, PhantomFool765 said:

 

Draw maps before making them, using a medium like drawing allows less thought and more freehand and your brain might come up with something that slipped from your conscience

[RDETalus]

You need to have very clear vision in your head of what you’re making. If you don’t have the imagination power to get a clear picture in your head, just browse google image search of your subject matter, find a picture, and straight up copy that picture into a map.

 

Thats how some of my map is made, I just google search “rocky beach” and just copy a nice picture. At least it gets you making something without floundering around in the map maker pushing pixels aimlessly.

[MajorRawne]

On 5/4/2021 at 11:19 AM, PhantomFool765 said:

It's a very direct question, but I genuinely love mapping and have done it for about a year or 2 now not quite sure but have a lot of trouble with it. I'm a very uncreative person and can't really get good ideas often and a lot of my maps end up taking like 24 hours to make just to be a linear map with little to no detail sparse demons and can be beat in like 40 seconds if you know what you're doing. If I had to describe my maps it's if dementia was represented in a DOOM map and we we're at stage 4, like the basic things are there and there's most certainly a map but there's nothing really of substance in it. So I just wanna know if there's anything I can really do to improve my maps when I can hardly take inspiration from other maps because I have a really shitty memory and I can't really make up my own ideas.

It takes me 24 days to make a complete mess of a map that doesn't play well, is loaded with visual errors and people can't beat it in a single sitting because the fights are so poorly thought out.

 

You are creative and intelligent enough to realise that your mapmaking could use some help, so that is a big step already.

[DynamiteKaitorn]

Go outside.

No really. Look at nature and the surrounding landscapes (if any are close by), look at your village/town/city/metropolis and how it flows, look at space during the night for any weird looking planets or objects that may fly past. Basically: try to look at everything around you and how it is shaped. I'm not the best at explaining but if I ever need something to help inspire an idea for one of my maps, usually a 1hr walk outside can help.

 

If nothing else stepping away for an hour or so lets you clear your mind. :)

[magicsofa]

On 5/5/2021 at 7:12 PM, PhantomFool765 said:

Hey everyone, I've read the replies and I wanna thank you all for your help and tips, I've finally started on a WAD I'm confident in enough that it'll be uploaded to DOOMWORLD when I finish it unlike my other WADs in limbo.

 

That's awesome... but I was gonna suggest posting your maps before they are "complete" so that you can get feedback during the process. You don't even have to make a new thread for it necessarily, since there's usually some sort of "I'll play/record/comment on your levels" shenanigans going on at any given time. It's easy to get stuck in your own bubble of preferences and foreknowledge while working, which can lead to overlooking stuff like a confusing progression (because you already know where to go).

 

On 5/4/2021 at 1:26 PM, Kappes Buur said:

This affliction could also be a result of the type of mapping format you use. Mapping for DOOM/2 or BOOM can, in some cases, lead to bland pwads, as is evidenced mainly by 'See here, I made my first map' . A lot of effort is required to make a map interesting, examples of this are Ancient Aliens, Interception, Can't Run Frm Evil, Aeternum, BTSX, Paranoid, just to mention of few.

 

However, using a different mapping format such as Doom in Hexen or UDMF can make a huge difference, where sectors can be coloured, similar to Doom64. Colours and light differences can make even a simple room look interesting. Plus, in advanced sourceports, new weapons and monsters can break the monotony of the regular fare.

 

I don't think this is good advice for a beginner, or really anyone. You're just adding more things to not know what to do with if you jump into UDMF. It's not like having these advanced features will make it easy to produce something as good as your examples. A lot of effort is required to make any high-quality map, regardless of format. Perhaps you're worrying about different things - in vanilla I have to put effort into not overloading the visplanes, while in UDMF I have to put effort into lining up sloped surfaces correctly. Still, it takes work either way to produce something excellent.

I'd suggest making use of advanced port features (other than maybe limit removal) only when you're actually inspired to do so. If you have this great idea for a custom monster that you need zscript for, great, use it. On the other hand, if you aren't sure what to do with the regular doom monsters as the OP described, it's probably better to practice with them before increasing the size and complexity of the bestiary. 

 

On 6/11/2021 at 11:28 AM, RDETalus said:

You need to have very clear vision in your head of what you’re making.

Maybe you do, but I almost never have a clear vision before I map. If I have a vision at all, it's usually vague, like "I want to make a sewer" (so creative). And even with that kind of starting point, I'll end up deviating as much as I want.

I've found that sometimes it helps to draw first, think later. You can always change or delete something that doesn't turn out good. But you will get nowhere if you just stare at the grid thinking about what should go next, forever. Not inspired? Doesn't matter - draw a sector. Don't think about rooms and doors. Just connect, connect, connect. Make a ledge. Make a pit. Make a lift. Is there a ledge? Make a way to get up to it. Is there a pit? Put in a switch to raise the pit. Is there a lift? Create a tunnel on the other side that's only revealed when you lower the lift. Too open? Draw a sector, then delete it. Too cramped? Fill in some of the negative space.

This isn't guaranteed to make the best map ever, but it helps me get moving. I feel that once I'm actually seeing things materialize, then I start getting more ideas, since there is an existing piece to work with. But when I just stare at the screen, nothing happens. It's like... the opposite of magic.

 

[forgettable pyromaniac]

First off, ONESHOT PFP! Frickin awesome.

 

Secondly, what I do is I play a bunch of maps.

Uncreative, I know.

But if I see something I like, I try to make something similar and add my own spin on it.

 

Also something I like to do if I'm working on something else (usually a doom wad):

I listen to people play/talk doom in the background (decino, FP, ect) whenever I'm not listening to music, and whenever they say "I like this part of the level" I go back in the video like 10-20 seconds to see the cool thing they like, and keep a mental note of it, or even write down the idea in a .txt before going on with my day.

 

Something else I'd like to add before I forget:

Try making interesting lighting effects! Making some pillars with shadows, or give cliff walls slightly darker lighting! It's not a lot, but can make your wad look really nice with little effort.