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DemonSlayer21

Dealing with high monster counts on WADs

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Hello all. I'm pretty new here and am looking for some strategy advice. I recently finished Plutonia and loved it and am starting Alien Vendetta as my first community-made WAD. (I always play on UV). It's been pretty good so far, but I'm getting bogged down on map 6. There are a ton of monsters, and I having trouble with running out of ammo. I simply don't have enough to keep progressing through the level (I haven't been doing pistol start fwiw), even though I don't start with a limit amount. I 'm gonna try restarting the level from my autosave and just killing enough so I can keep moving, but wanna know what strategy advice you guys have for navigating these types of situations on harder WADs.  

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Infighting is the best way to conserve ammo while still raking up kills. 

 

Or you could just lower the difficulty. 

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1 minute ago, Old-Doomguy said:

Infighting is the best way to conserve ammo while still raking up kills. 

 

Or you could just lower the difficulty. 

They will do that sometimes. Is there a way to make them do that? I've tried to make them infight, but they all just end up congregating at the door that I closed and I get murdered when I open it. I'm not sure how to force it and do it in a way that is strategic to moving forward.

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1 minute ago, DemonSlayer21 said:

They will do that sometimes. Is there a way to make them do that? I've tried to make them infight, but they all just end up congregating at the door that I closed and I get murdered when I open it. I'm not sure how to force it and do it in a way that is strategic to moving forward.

circle strafe and remember that the same monster type can't infight each other

 

See this video for more information on infighting if you want to know the specifics

One way you could make them infight is circle strafing though I haven't played AV so maybe the map doesn't have the space, basically try to make them hit each other and if they're already infighting don't shoot them or they could stop infighting

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well if you wanna see someone use a door to totally defuse a level, look up j4rio, zahid and vdgg's tyson runs on dsdarchive dot com :3 watching demos in general is a good way to find out about techniques yr missing.

 

alien vendetta asks you to use the rocket launcher and the bfg with skill, you might wanna practice herding and taking opportune shots at crowds with those two weapons!

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I have only played alien vendetta online. My only experience dealing with huge hordes was dead air. If the horde mostly consists of pinkies, try and hug one wall and when the crowd starts going towards you, quickly strafe to the opposite direction of the wall you are hugging and run for it. Sometimes you can't kill them all.

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oof, map06. that's always where people first get stuck lol

 

first off: don't play on uv. play on hmp at most, alien vendetta is hard and it's only gonna get harder from here on out.

 

secondly, if the door that you close is the one i think you're talking about, then open it and either let them infight while being at a safe distance or use the rocket launcher, cuz its splash damage will damage multiple enemies at once

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Good routing is important in Doom, and that often means you have to leave some enemies alive and come back to them later when you're better equipped. This can make things more uncomfortable or lethal, especially if you're not familiar with the whole map, but it's worth it in many cases. Also, if you're not finding all the secrets, you might want to look those up.

 

I don't know much about the route for this particular level, so I'll just link a video of someone else's UV-Max run. This is from a pistol start, and he leaves the level with everything dead and a spare 68 shells and 166 bullets. There appears to be some incidental infighting, but it doesn't look as important here as efficient use of ammo (rockets and BFG are often reserved for dense clusters of monsters) and telefragging the cyberdemon (unfortunately luck-based, but shouldn't be too much of a problem if you play with saves). Obviously this is a speedrun, you don't need most of these strats just to beat the level. I think the simplest way to save ammo would be to just leave some of the enemies in the first area alive until you reach that area again, and don't waste any ammo on the telefraggable cyberdemon.

 

 

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RUN! If you see your health depleting quickly, run to the room over and allow some demons to get in. kill them, and then go back in and shoot or repeat depending on how many are left. Also, if it is an open level, I recommend just running and gunning. I want to conserve ammo a lot, but if there is just a horde of too many demons, I waste my bullets until there are none left, or I evade combat completely. 

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A lot of maps are designed with infighting in mind, so alerting monsters in an area, baiting attacks so they hit each other, then leaving them alone for a bit is the way to go. Even if you're not trying to go for 100% kills it might be necessary so you can traverse the map and stuff.

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39 minutes ago, TheUnstableNutcase said:

why are u telling someone what difficulty to play on

...because it'd be easier for them to get through it? it's a hard wad and its uv is a big step up from plutonia. hmp would give a less frustrating but still challenging experience, and would be more in line with what op is used to. alien vendetta is my favorite megawad of all time and i don't wanna see someone having a bad experience with it cuz it's too hard, y'know?

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Take it one step at a time. Alien Vendetta more or less follows the gameplay style of Plutonia, but on Ultra-Violence it is a bit more demanding due to its larger levels coupled with the monster placement, and Map 06 gives you a taste of things to come. There's no stopping you playing on that difficulty, but it will make you rely more on monster infighting, so you may want to play on Hurt Me Plenty. I play on that difficulty, even on Plutonia, because Ultra-Violence is just too much for me on both wads.

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If you’re having problems with map06 then these are the levels that will truly test you.

map32

map25

map26

My suggestion is to learn the best way to get the enemies to infight or to use your ammo in the most efficient way you can. Looking at dsda runs is also a good idea.

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18 minutes ago, Jacek Bourne said:

If you’re having problems with map06 then these are the levels that will truly test you.

map32

Map 32 shouldn't be too much of a problem for anyone who can beat Go 2 It, though.

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As someone who recently played through AV as a novice, I can only recommend you do some save scumming as you progress, Hillside Siege is nowhere near the hardest map in that wad.  The last 9 or 10 levels can be pretty soul crushing.

 

I don't think there is any shame to saving between big fights, I've even kept some of my saves on some of the barn burners to return to for practice.

 

If you want to skill up quickly, I would recommend skipping to map 26 or 32 for some quick and dirty practice.

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Posted (edited)

Ah, the famous door in AV MAP 06 ... (I guess you mean the door before the courtyard with the cyberdemon)

When I first played it, I got into similar difficulties than you, OP, I tried to camp at the door and open/close it - and ammo drains fast.

This is an indication that the mapper didn't want you to do that :-)

 

The "solution" is to simply enter the courtyard and run around like a headless chicken to incite infighting, and there are also some goodies there to be found. It may be intimidating at first but if you played Plutonia there are more difficult setpieces of this kind, like the final room in "Abbatoire". This courtyard is a good exercise to practice dodging and crowdsurfing, even if it's still far away from "slaughter".

 

Anyway I think once you beat this level on UV you can stay with this difficulty as the maps that follow are not that hard, although there is a second difficulty spike in the stretch MAP14-17. In my opinion it's only in MAP26-29 where AV becomes really significantly more difficult than Plutonia (although 27 and 28 are a bit easier). 25 is intimidating because of the monster count but not really much harder than Go 2 it.

 

Source: I played AV also directly after Plutonia/TNT and had no major difficulties with it even as a relative "newbie", with the exception of MAP26 and 29 which led to some ragequits.

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It took me over a month or two to beat Hillside Siege and another month or two to beat Overwhelming Odds on UV. It was hell, but if I can do it, then you can do it too!

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