Not 18? No sale!

[Amaster]

It seems that most people here agree that there should be age restrictions, which I also agree with. The major debate instead sseems that these restrictions are pointless because no one will enforce them. However, this statement merely proves that such restrictions are absolutely necessary. Granted, many salespeople and parents will still allow kids to buy whatever the hell they want. But if there are laws against that kind of thing, then it will happen alot less than if there werent. Age restrictions on cigarettes and alchohol dont stop many kids from drinking and smoking (I know many peolpe who's parents allowed them to do such things right in their own house), but the problem would be much worse if there were no laws.

Yes, people should be able to do whatever they want to do (as long as it doesnt harm someone else), but not at any age. It impossible to say that every 18 year old is better at handling themselves than every 15 or 16 year old, but its still a pretty good guideline.

Alientank
I don't care, I'm 18 right now so it doesn't matter to me! HAHA!

When I was younger, my mother let me watch whatever the hell I wanted. In fact, she likes violent movies also (her favorite is Die Hard), and she encouraged me to watch them. In my early teenage years, I witnessed 2 people (on two seperate occasions) get shot in the head. When I was 18, I saw a bus pass by with the words "Help, Call 911" printed on the display atop the windshield. In all the above cases, I didnt call the cops. I did absolutely nothing. Why? Because I didnt care!. Seeing these things didnt even bother me in the slightest way because I am so desensitized. THATS MESSED UP!
This isnt directly aimed at Alientank, I know he was just being a silly bastard. But its still a problem that needs to be addressed. So anti-violence laws should definetely be in effect.

[Use]

FirebrandX said:

a bunch of bullshit based on assumption.

Wow, it's like you've known me all my life. get a clue shitbrains, you don't even know how old I am, and you have no understanding of my perspective on anything, or my experiences with politics to warrant such a response to this further intrusion into our lives. Next time you shoot your big mouth off do it on someone else. You're 28 you say? hah, you're just a baby. Talk shit to me at fods age and I might give a damn.

[IMJack]

Hey MSNBC! Welcome to four years ago, bitch!

Yes, I agree that kids should be carded when I buy M-rated games, and I thank the checker when they card me for my purchases. On the same logic of "if they enforce movie ratings, they should enforce game ratings".

The problems crop up when a parent buys their kid an M game and then bitch and moan when they "discover" it has M-rated content.

[gatewatcher]

Who cares? Show me a 12 year-old that CAN'T walk into Toys'r'us and buy GTA, and I'll discuss why this a good law.

[Sephiroth]

honestly look at cigeretts and alcohol. yea they DO need age restrictions but enforcing them is more of a problem. I have never known or seen anyone carded for tobacco and i have only seen once someone carded for alcohol. Now i know they would not sell it to a 12 year old. yet it is that basic part of business, you got money and i got goods. unless a store is under survalence it is not uncommon for restrictions to be ignored. I would be real good as an under cover guy in my town. i have been with friends younger than me who went thru a drive thru and got beer, no they did not know anyone in there.

games to most people would seem like a joke same with music. however in my younger days i never tried to buy a r rated movie or porno. my parents lets us see most every thing, except porno. but the neigboor kids got together and we formed one of that largest most ass kicking stashes of porn ever! and that leads me to a funny story

in the back yard of an old friends house was a large barn. the dirt was soft under it but a large and deep cement foundation held the barn in place. We simply dug deep under the barn and made a room useing a back corner. we dug a 6 foot deep ditch to some bushes and then cover the ditch with planks found at a dump pile were they built houses. the planks were coveredwith about a foot of dirt, we also thru chunks of grass on top. it was easily seen if u walked back there, yet his dad never did and with in 2 weeks it was completly hidden. the dirt was taken to a kids ouse down the street and put in a older hole inside the former club house in that yard. we used the old power outlet that was for the pool, removed 4 years before. we barried at outdoor extension cord in ran it into our little club room.

It was used for more than porn, infact we added on. it started 4 x 6 feet. in the end it would use almost all of what was under that barn. we made 2 walls using cinder blocks and bricks form that junk pile, to support the floor. this came out pretty good for something 9-11 year olds made. infact it is still there today, unused as far as i know. the entrance is burried

took use 4 days to dig the main room and 2 for the ditch/tunnel. took us a week for adding rooms and walls. honestly it was very fun and the parents never knew.

[Captain Red]

AndrewB said:
[G rated rant about gramma]

Once agian, AndrewB cuts through the crap and exposes the real issue.

[pritch]

BigBadGangsta said:

I think it was that silly bastard that started the poll. I could be wrong though.

Rofl.

Anyway, I think age isn't really relevant. Some kids are mature enough at 13 to deal with violence etc., whereas some kids are still easily influenced at, say, 17.

I think we're taking too many liberties away from parents, so I'd say don't let kids buy it let parents buy it for them if they think it's suitable.

[Coopersville]

I don't think it's about age, but about maturity level. Children that are like twelve and under seem easily manipulated into believing violence isn't wrong. I do recognize reality from fiction and find myself suit to play the more violent games. I don't own many 'M' rated games though.

[Remilia Scarlet]

I just now read the article. I, personally, am against the rating systems. I think that as long as the parents do their part and let the kids know that this is fantasy, not real, then hey, go have a ball. Take away the damned rating system, please.

Part of this comes from personal experience. I remember watching RoboCop, one of my favorite movies, when it first came out on video. I was about four or five at the time. I grew up playing violent games and watching violent movies. Mortal Kombat, Splatterhouse 2 and 3, Doom (duh), Lethal Enforcers, The Terminator movies, Starship Troopers, and other such things. I even tried, no did, make super-hero characters in grade school who did things more violent than I have yet to see in movies or games. Yet, I grew into a person who hates real-life violence, who has never been in a fight, and who doesn't get angry easily. I think this is partly due to my mom, who I feel brought me up quite well in this area. And partly because of my learning of Kung-Fu, which teaches non-violence.

But, personal experience isn't much to go on, as there are alot of different people out there. But, think of it this way. By censoring/rating something, it becomes a sort of taboo. While I was allowed to watch just about anything, I was never allowed to watch porn growing up. So, now adays, I get no "kick" out of showing my mom the latest violent videogame. However, I do get a kick looking at hentai, knowing that it isn't allowed, yet I'm getting away with it. Same thing with alcohol in Spain. Last time I heard (four years ago), it was sold in schools. Yet, drinking to excess wasn't a problem there. Here, alcohol can't be bought before you reach 21 (here). And it seems that drinking to excess is quite a problem.

So, imo, if we start censoring/rating games, it'll only add to the fire. From my experience, they don't work well anyway. Hell, I just bought Super Real Mahjongg for my NeoGeo Pocket yesterday (it's a strip-mahjongg game from Japan), and the dude could care less about my age (I'm 19, btw).

Btw, I didn't read the entire thread, so sorry if I got a bit off or repeated stuff.

[Captain Red]

Ok. Fine, if you honestly think that games like SOF and GTA3, will have no effect on children under 12 then here’s another thing to consider:
Suehappy idiots. Don’t kid yourself. People WILL SUE. Now next time little Mickey decides it’s time for a shooting spree, when the parents decide to take it to court, the defense eternity will stand up and point to the little shiny sticker with MA 15+ High level animated violence written on it and say “this child should not have been sold this game.” When they bring in the cashier, he say “nope. I didn’t sell little Mickey that game, I sold it to his parents! It’s ageist the law for me to sell minors MA 15+ games”. There for, the game company can say “We fully intended this game to be played by adults and only by adults.” So Mr. & Mrs. Suehappy have there case thrown out of court.

Ok, maybe not thrown out, but it’ll definitely tip the scales in our favor.

[Job]

Kids are gonna be kids. They'll be subjected to all sorts of other people now and then. Probably the best thing a person can do to is restrict the sale of certain games, according to content, to a reasonable age bracket. I hate to say it, but the same goes for Doom III. There's a 99.356% chance that it'll be a mature rated game and while I hate to see all those 17 and under kids missing out, that's too bad. Restriction by age is the best thing adults can do to relieve some of their guilt for kids being "exposed" to certain material.

[Deviant Force]

pritch said:

Rofl.

Anyway, I think age isn't really relevant. Some kids are mature enough at 13 to deal with violence etc., whereas some kids are still easily influenced at, say, 17.

I think we're taking too many liberties away from parents, so I'd say don't let kids buy it let parents buy it for them if they think it's suitable.

I totally Agree With that I played many Violent Games when i was young. My parents Let me go the the movie theater and they Bought the tickets if Me and a friend wanted to see and R rated movie and i never got Messed up or anything. Once they caught me watching porn and my mom just said to Turn it off and do something else. I mean im not the best influence probubly to younger kids but i dont have a younger brother or sister or anything like that. I think if the parents think the kid is Mature enough to get the game let the kid get it. This really pissed me off when i was 13 i went to the record store to buy some cd's and like 2 were Parental Advisory and the guy asked how old i was I said i was 13 and the guy goes Well you have to be 14 to buy parental Advisory Albums. Now i ask you this What is the difference Between a 13 year old and a 14 year old I remember Being more mature than some 14 year olds i knew. I think its kinda Fucked up and the Video game law probubly wont last long.

[Raziel]

jesus christ, all you people think that you have to be a certain age to handle something. NO YOU DON'T! (oh look, that 13 year old is looking at a naked girl, he's going to be damaged for life.) JEEZ, get a fucking Life/Clue!


Please don't ban me.

[Naked Snake]

Raziel said:

Please don't ban me.

[Drederik_Tatum]You leave me little recourse[/Drederik_Tatum]

[Amaster]

Raziel said:

jesus christ, all you people think that you have to be a certain age to handle something. NO YOU DON'T! (oh look, that 13 year old is looking at a naked girl, he's going to be damaged for life.) JEEZ, get a fucking Life/Clue!
Please don't ban me.

Of course it's not about age, but you cant have a law that says "Only kids who feel that they are mature can buy M rated games". There are plenty of very capable 13 year olds out there, but many are not. Sure some kids will get screwed, but thats better than one kid deciding that mowing down his buddies could be great fun.

You cant leave it up to parents entirely because theyre not perfect. Parents cant watch their kids 24/7. Imagine if there were no gun control laws at all. More people would own guns, and more kids would accidently blow their heads off when their parents werent home.

[Captain Red]

Raziel said:
jesus christ, all you people think that you have to be a certain age to handle something. NO YOU DON'T! (oh look, that 13 year old is looking at a naked girl, he's going to be damaged for life.) JEEZ, get a fucking Life/Clue!

Bouncer: Son, do you feel mature enough to go into Hooters Hooters Hooters?

12 Year old: Well I just came here to look tittys. but now that you mention it, no not really. I think I’ll wait till I’m older.

[Raziel]

yeah, but then there are 21 year old people who can't handle boobs and naked women and such. Okay.

[Amaster]

Also true. But you've got to draw a line somewhere. It's better than drawing no line at all.

[DOOM Anomaly]

Its not based on age, its based on maturity, but they put age limits to the average limit they believe is good. They Feel at a certain age the majority is mature enough, but thats untrue and somewhat Bias, it depends on the person and how mature they are and choose to be, or express.

[IMJack]

Raziel said:

yeah, but then there are 21 year old people who can't handle boobs and naked women and such. Okay.

Yes. His name is Peter and I have to live with him. :P

[jon^c]

As far as some of you feeling that games need to be banned by governmental institutions, or otherwise labeling them obscene and unsuitable for purchase by anybody, its called parental responsibility. Dont rely on the government to raise your children for you. If you want your kid to stay away from GTA3, dont give them the money to purchase it. And as far as kids 16+ having jobs to buy it themselves, if you still think your kid cannot tell the difference between fantasy and reality, and the consequences of actions in the real world, then either you really screwed up raising them, or theyre total idiots. Either way its up to you to regulate whats watched on tv, played in games, and read in magazines or books. Dont rely on obscenity laws as a fallback for poor parenting.

[AndrewB]

My mom has repeatedly said to my brother and indirectly to me (being there while she said it to him) that she would cancel our internet connection and throw away all of our computers if she ever found that we were looking at adult-oriented content. Of course, she needs me to explain the difference between CD's and floppy disks quite often, and sometimes I have to move the mouse for her when the screen goes black, so it's somewhat of an empty threat.

My mom doesn't know anything of course, but I can confidently say that my younger brother is about 10 times as much into that stuff as me. I wondered why my mom thought nothing of it when he asked to have kleenex for the basement (where his computer is) rather than toilet paper. I mean, put 15 and 69 together. Take a look at the desk and floor around his computer. Nobody can be full of that much snot.

[jon^c]

Thank you. Excuse me while I go vomit everywhere. andrewb wanking **shudder**

[Fredrik]

/me vomits too

[IMJack]

Your brother is an idiot. Toilet paper can be disposed of more easily than tissues.

My mother would go ape-shit if she found me doing that, but she doesn't know the first thing about computers. My dad might know where/how to look, but he doesn't care. They both know I can handle this sort of thing.

Anyway, off the topic of sex and back on that of violence...

[Amaster]

jon^c said:

Dont rely on obscenity laws as a fallback for poor parenting.

And what is to happen if someone who is raising a child has no parenting skills? Should the child be allowed to run wild in the streets just because his parents suck?

[læmænt]

In general I don't see anything bad with having children ask their parents' permission to buy violent video games. But I have a huge problem with the number "18". Overall, fuck that shit.

[jon^c]

Assmaster said:

And what is to happen if someone who is raising a child has no parenting skills? Should the child be allowed to run wild in the streets just because his parents suck?

In such an extreme case obviously dss would come into the picture. Im talking about applying decency laws to entertainment to protect children.

[Amaster]

jon^c said:

In such an extreme case obviously dss would come into the picture. Im talking about applying decency laws to entertainment to protect children.

I still think its necessary for the not-so-extreme cases. Dont think of it as a fallback, just insurance should things not work out the way theey should.

[jon^c]

how do obscenity laws restricting what adults do act as a fallback foor bad parenting?