Jump to content
Search In
  • More options...
Find results that contain...
Find results in...
MtPain27

All About Secret Maps

Recommended Posts

You know, I've always pooh-poohed Doom 1's secret maps, not as being bad maps, but as being "bad secrets" due to feeling pretty normal - I was always of the opinion that Doom2's more gimmicky but also entertaining idea of having it be a couple of old Wolf3D levels was far more charming. But the way you've worded this post has actually made me re-think my stance on that to some degree after all this time, E3M9's almost "proto wormhole"-like concept is particularly cool and has been done really well numerous times since. It's cool coming back to familiar territory, but even more corrupted and opposing... I just never associated that concept with E3M9, even though that's obviously where that idea was birthed when it comes to Doom maps. Makes me appreciate it a lot more.

 

As far as from a mapper's perspective: something I did years ago was use "secret maps" less as secrets and more as alternate paths. I've been mapping largely for vanilla the last 10ish years so I kind of drifted away from doing that, but in an old ass wad by me called UAC Rebellion you can play as few as 10 or as many as 15 maps by the end depending on which way you go at various forks in the road. Maybe at a future date, I'll revisit that concept again..

 

Can't wait to see other examples people post here, too. In the realm of deathmatch, UDMX has a Sonic-themed map that's completely different from all the others. Because of how DM works it's not found in the way secret maps are found in SP, but rather you're just rewarded with it if you stay in a server long enough to reach it in the rotation. I love when DM wads have a random off-the-wall secret or bonus map in that style. As an earlier example, UDM2 has a Mario Bros themed map that's reached in the same way. Love that kind of stuff!

Share this post


Link to post

I'm not that good at secrets, so I at least try to research if any particular maps have secret exits before making any effort to search for them (in non-megawads, I guess, Map 15 always has a secret exit).

 

As for secret maps I like....I would say more difficult normally, but it seems like that secret maps are either far too easy for something that should have the difficulty of the last third or else a slaughter. Otherwise, they can have a completely different aesthetic from the rest of the wad, like Roofi's Map32 for Pour Vivre, though the gimmick there's...is more of an obstacle than something that gives a unique structure and feel to the map. I guess you could say Doom secret maps have a habit of being disapponting. Memento Mori II and New Doom Community Project's super-secret maps....well, I guess it's nice there was a harder Dead Simple homage in the former and a strangely intricately Wolfenstein-inspired design in the latter that actually has a whole other area you can explore not necessary for map completetion that has some awesome fights, but the secret maps have a habit of seeming like outtakes that could have easily ended up in the wad.

 

Two more, Pavera's "Dead Bod" does a good job at breaking out from the confines of the wad it's in and presenting a more deadly and treacherous aesthetic than what he usually does. And the secret map of Dunn and Dunn's "Bloodbath" is definitely a stylistically distinct map from the rest in that wad, though it might be easier than map06(I won't say it doesn't seem like it though!).

Edited by LadyMistDragon

Share this post


Link to post

I always look for a secret map when there is one. I like to go through all a wad has to offer when I go through it if I think I can handle it. My first time going through Plutonia I very much doubted if I could beat Go 2 It and Cyberden so I saved those for last, and I think that'll be my attitude in general for "hardest maps we had ready for ya" types of secret levels, and I'm fine with that. I'll still find the secret exit I'm not taking, look at it, and acknowledge that "found it, not going there yet though".

 

As for what I like in a secret level, I'm a fan of secret levels going for multiple things. Like Scythe's secret levels. Map 31 goes for the "off theme level" approach with its dungeon theme and use of Heretic music and map 32 goes for the gimmicky approach and relative challenge (relative to that point of the wad). I like that more than Doom 2's approach of having back to back referential maps to the same thing. Either map is fine on its own, it just does feel a litle bit of a waste to have both reference the same material.

Share this post


Link to post

Well after making a few Ultimate Doom episodes, the secret maps I make don't tend to deviate too much from the normal maps. Unfortunately I tend to not think too much apart from usually rewarding continuous players (Return to Hadron E1 hands you the plasma gun early, E2/3 have power ups at the end of the maps as freebies etc). I would say that I try to differentiate these maps from the rest, however this is lost somewhat by the fact that I tried to give each map a strong thematic that differs from the rest anyway. In terms of hiding them, I guess I tend to use either switch hunts (Multiple switches unlock the exit) or a secret key or a combination of both. Even in Nova I use a switch hunt to access Map31 that had to be retrofitted into the map once the map slots were assigned.

 

Well after that unhelpful mappers section - Some interesting secret maps;

 

- Nova (The Birth) - Map31 (Iron Exuviae) by Dobu Gabu Maru - An excellent puzzle map (The first I believe by this author), there are no monsters on the main path.

- Speed of Doom - Map31 - The strong thematic change and the strict monster/weapon usage is a perfect marriage. Probably one the best doom PWad secret maps ever made.

- Doom 2 Reloaded - Map32 - Another puzzle type map, there are numerous exits in this one where the player is free to give up whenever they like, reaching the end requires finding a wide variety of secret switches/doors/linedef actions. Again it offers a different experience to normal maps.

 

Personally I think it is great when a wad tries to offer a different experience in some guise in its secret maps. However I guess for the most part that you would only find these in PWads where the number of mappers is restricted to just one or two main authors.

 

There are probably lots more.

 

Share this post


Link to post

I always try to find the secret maps when I'm playing a WAD. I mean, it's more levels, so why wouldn't I? I prefer secret maps to be different than the rest of the WAD in style. I think Doom 2's secret maps are cool, since they're nothing like the rest of the game. Doom 1's secret maps are pretty much just Doom maps, but 2's is the Wolfenstein throwback, which is super cool. TNT's are cool as well, as pyramids and tropical islands (if you can call map 32 that) are very different stylistically from the rest of the WAD. I don't mind the secret maps that are more about being super challenging (like the Plutonias), but those are just whatevs. But if they're challenging and stylistically different, now we're talkin'! (Speed of Doom, Valliant Map 31). 

 

Honestly, it's kind of hard for me to remember specific secret levels that stick out for me, other than the ones I just mentioned. As I type this, I'm going to look up the secret levels from WADs I remember playing. That being said, there's 2 that I immediately thought of, and it's Doom 2 the Way id Did's. I love the fact that like the original Doom 2, these levels are based on older id games, but this time they went with Commander Keen. These levels are really, really cool, with textures straight from those old games placed into 3D levels, Keen enemies showing up, all cumulating with a fight with the legendary Dopefish. 

 

Another set I liked are Going Down's. The idea that Doomguy can't get reception on his cell phone so he has to go back up to the roof to call his mom is pretty funny. Map 31 being just a giant staircase is a very odd idea to me. Map 32 is another style of map I like, where you go back to a previous map, but it has changed a bit. Some maps that do this are identical until a certain point (like E3M9), others keep your massacre from earlier intact so it's unnervingly empty. This Map turns the small roof of the opening map into a mini slaughterfest, and it's awesome. 

 

One that confused me originally was Map 31 of Three's A Crowd, since it ends as fast as it starts. You see a room with a bunch of baddies, but as soon as you move, you end the level. I originally thought it was an error, but in reality, it's story driven. The second marine in the story that you are playing as basically made a wrong turn and ended up in that room, nope-d right out of there, and proceeded to retrace his steps back in Map 32. Kinda funny.

 

That's all I can remember for sure now.

Share this post


Link to post
1 hour ago, MtPain27 said:

MAPPERS: How do you like to use secret levels, if at all? How rigorously do you try to hide them? What existing secret maps, if any, have inspired you or informed your own work in some way? Of the categories I laid out above (gimmicky/experimental/challenging/etc.), do you see yourself gravitating towards any particular school of thought? 

 

PLAYERS: Do you actively look for secret maps? If so, what do you like to see in secret levels? Which one(s) is/are your favorite? What are some of the weirdest or most memorable secret maps you've ever found/played? Are there any you really enjoyed that you don't think get enough attention?

Anything for the Dean of Doom!

 

As someone who's straddled both sides of the fence, I guess I'll answer both separately.

 

On the mapper's side of things, I guess I'd personally use three sets of criteria.

  • Can I use this to strengthen the progression of the theme of maps I'm doing? Alternatively, can I use this to purposely BREAK that pattern? Maybe there's a theme that's really solid for 1-2 maps but can't hold up to a whole episode's worth? A secret map slot is a great place for maps like those.
  • Can I get away with something a bit interesting beyond the normal fare? Secret maps are, well, secret. They should accordingly have a little extra spice, not just in terms of what you throw at the player, but in terms of impressiveness. For Plutonia, this was simple: "The hardest map the Casalis could imagine" and for the time that was more than good enough, but now I'd like a bit more than "just like the others, but harder."
    • For example, I've thought about an idea where you flip the script - make the player actually do some work to get to MAP16 from MAP15, and a much harder second half of the map, but have the secret exit tantalizingly close and a much easier fight, with the idea being the extra work you take to take the shorter route is a punishing challenge whereas the secret route is not - at the cost of, of course, punishing yourself with one, if not two, extra levels to have to clean out. To visualize this, let's say you robbed a store. The alarm's going off. The secret level route is you having to hide from the police to protect your ill-gotten gains. The "straighter" route is you showing the cops what you stole and then escaping by beelining out of the city as fast as you can.
  • Can I do something memorable with it? To continue that example above, the idea I'd had would be that the first secret map would be, of course, something you fight through. So you beat it, right? Now you do the second secret map, which is the first secret map, but reversed, and altered... and then when you think you've reached the end, you just wind back up at the tail end of MAP15, and *STILL* have to do that harder part you would have gone through to get to MAP16 normally. Albeit, it's probably somewhat easier now, as it's a little unfair if I've put the player through 80% of a level to give them hell that they would've originally faced maybe halfway through on MAP15. Maybe what happened caused some rubble to fall or whatever that killed some of the demons in their monster closets or something to give an in-lore explanation for why the battle is more softened up.
    • The actual inspiration for this idea was, of all things, Castlevania III: Dracula's Curse's branching paths and stages.
      • You could skip Stage 2 (the Clock Tower) entirely and go right to Stage 3. Doing this, however, permanently locked out a character you could play as.
      • Stage 3 itself, you could choose to continue through (setting you on an alternate path through alternate stages) or skip to the normal version of Stage 4. Skipping the rest of Stage 3 likewise locked you out from a SECOND playable character, but going through it locked you out from a THIRD playable character. (In this way, the game was set up so that you could only ever encounter two of the three other playable characters at most, and picking up the new one meant you lost the old one if you had them. You could even refuse all three joining you, and do it solo.)
      • Stages 4-7 could be two entirely different maps (and in Stage 6's case, three different maps) depending on which routes you'd picked.
      • All routes re-converge at Stage 8, and the rest of the game is linear from there.

As a player, I love to look for secret maps. I love it even more when they give me something memorable. The Wraith Corp. Megawad Perdition's Gate actually did this really well, having two levels that had some totally interesting themes that weren't used anywhere else in the WAD really (albeit they were both a little gimmicky). Plutonia 2's MAP32 comes to mind, of course, as does Hell Revealed, especially as it forces you to low health for MAP16 as extra punishment. You'll enjoy Scythe 2's MAP32 for reasons that I won't spoil juuuust in case you haven't played it yet (I know it's coming!) but man is getting to it a complete BITCH.

 

I did enjoy E3M9 from Doom, because the whole idea of "familiar, TOO familiar" and then to have that snatched away from you with the only other Cyberdemon in the original three Doom episodes was great, and in a much smaller arena than the original, too (albeit you also had an invulnerability, so...).

 

For a few that I don't think get enough attention, Alien Vendetta's Killer Colours (MAP31) is a good pick in that era of pre-colored lighting. Icarus: Alien Vanguard's MAP32 (Prestidigitation) is also pretty seriously underrated - it's not too much now but doing that all on the stock Doom engine was slick.

Share this post


Link to post

Secret maps should be different from the other maps in some meaningful way.  If your secret map is just another regular ass map that you happened to make harder to get to then it might as well have been put in any other slot.  "Different" of course is a broad term and can be hard to achieve in a very eclectic mapset.  E2M9 takes a tiny simple idea and uses it in a tiny simple but (I think) amusing map.  TNT MAP31 and MAP32 are built around unusual map themes.  Plutonia MAP31 and especially MAP32 are built around being (in theory) exceptionally difficult.  Doom II's maps are one pure gimmick taken to its logical conclusion, and I'd be lying if I said I didn't enjoy how jarring and weird they feel in a playthrough.  E1M9 is my least favorite of the IWAD secret levels actually because there is nothing really special about it that I can identify, in either gameplay or theme.  Maybe an early taste of a Hell or Deimos-style map would've been fun.  Idk I guess MtPain27 already basically said all of this lol but that's always been my take on secret maps.

 

Oh yeah Keen 4 and 5 killed it with their secret maps: Pyramid of the Forbidden is hard as shit and probably the hardest in any canon Keen game, and the Korath III Base moves the game to an area that makes sense within the context of the game but where you thought you wouldn't need to go, offering a special secret-only enemy (always fun in my opinion) and a new environment along with a funky tower-climbing level design that...well it doesn't 100% work but again I love the peculiar feel of it.  Both are also filled with loot, which was a thing that Doom's secret levels didn't quite hold to as firmly and isn't (to me) a requirement of a good secret level but does add to the rewarding feeling.  And best of all is that both levels have hilarious payoffs down the way.

Share this post


Link to post
1 hour ago, MtPain27 said:

MAPPERS: How do you like to use secret levels, if at all? How rigorously do you try to hide them? What existing secret maps, if any, have inspired you or informed your own work in some way? Of the categories I laid out above (gimmicky/experimental/challenging/etc.), do you see yourself gravitating towards any particular school of thought?

I'm with everyone on the idea that secret levels should go for something different from the rest of the mapset, rather than being just another map.

I've made a couple secret levels - one was a MAP31 that had various rooms you would travel to that were basically callbacks to select IWAD maps. I also made one bonus level (not a secret level since the set isn't a megaWAD) that functions as a sort of Warrens map where the player is put in a cozy house...but something's wrong...and at some point, things explode. 

I've read that secret maps are often reserved for trying things out, such as very gimmicky and unorthodox concepts (Sunlust MAP32, Scythe 2 MAP32, Flotsam MAP32, Valiant MAP32), or maps that simply differ from the main set's flow with a different theme or unique gameplay (Valiant MAP31, Hell Revealed MAP32 [both slaughtermaps], Stardate 20x6 MAP31 [small archvile-only map]). 

 

From what I've seen of various WADs, it's often a good idea to put the unique-gameplay or magnum-opus levels in the secret slots, which is often done in megaWADs for cohesive purposes (especially if the maps in the set follow a strict theme throughout). Such levels will be rendered as optional for those who would rather not touch them during a casual playthrough or something. Eviternity does this with MAP32, Scythe 2's secret levels are no exception, and also Slaughterfest 2012 with their 5 secret levels that have no visual chops but...unique gameplay.

Feel free to state any more examples - I just went off of WADs that I have downloaded on my PC. :P

 

Secret areas in maps would be another good topic, too. Totally hasn't been discussed on this forum before, though. lol

 

Share this post


Link to post
Quote

Do you actively look for secret maps?

Yes, however, given my playstyle of pistol starting with no saves, if I leave via the non-secret exit I would either have to idclev back to the previous level and replay it or just idclev to the secret maps. 

Quote

If so, what do you like to see in secret levels?

My favorite secret levels are those that break the mold of whatever trend is present in the rest of wad. I want to see secret levels try something new even if it doesn't work out that well. Secrets should be rewarding and to me giving the player just another regular level is not a good reward to the player for going through the effort of finding a secret exit.

Quote

Which one(s) is/are your favorite? What are some of the weirdest or most memorable secret maps you've ever found/played? Are there any you really enjoyed that you don't think get enough attention?

This one is going to be hard for me as I have played a lot of wads over the last several years, but I will try my best.

Doom Zero Map31 - Easy concept, recreate areas from several other id games starting at Wolfenstein going to Quake 2. The level itself isn't great but stitching together levels from other games and turning them into corrupted flesh versions of the originals never gets old.

Deathless E1M9, E2M9, E3M9 - Similar in concept to Go To It. That is took a Doom 2 level but make it harder. E1M9 stands out to me the most since it is just Doom 2 Map20 but actually good.

Going Down Map31 - Normally I cannot stand fighting enemies on staircases but this level managed to make it work. What makes this level memorable to me is how in certain spots you can see into the previous levels thus making the building seem more like a real place.

2048 Units of /vr/ Map31 - Nothing too special about this level besides its challenge and how the level geometry spells out the wad name. Well made while lacking in attention much like the rest of the wad.

Share this post


Link to post

Mapping:

Demonfear just treats the secret maps as normal maps that you have to play (with 32 being a 'dark mirror' of 31), because 1995 me was not about to make two maps that people might not play.

 

MAP32 of Requiem was designed on the basis of "something I can build very quickly".

 

The secret maps in Doom 404 lean into the concept that Doomguy is already in an artificial reality, and have his digital avatar stumble into an old game ("Nazi Shooter!") that someone illicitly installed on the network.

 

 

Playing:

I often forget that I am on a map that leads to a secret map and forget to look.  Especially in Ult Doom.  If I do remember to look, I rarely spend more than a few minutes doing so.  I don't find looking for secrets all that entertaining in and of itself.  If I do find a secret map, I am fine if it is "just another map".  A wildly conceptually different map isn't likely to thrill me in and of itself.  A secret map whose only concept is that it is "balls hard" will actively annoy me.

 

Share this post


Link to post

My view of secret maps has always been more or less shaped by the secret maps of the Ultimate Doom. I found them boring and having nothing of interest in them and not having played Wolf3D properly before i got it on PS3, i never cared about Doom II's secret maps either.

 

I never actively looked for secret maps before playing Doom Zero and accidentally stumbling on It's secret maps. The first one was so mind blowing and nerdgasm inducing that it completely changed my view on secret maps and now i absolutely want to find them as i don't want to miss that chance to accidentally find that next truly different and mind blowing map. I mean, i was literally giggling like a little kid through the whole map and i've _never ever_ experienced that in any map ever before. After Doom Zero i played Valiant and hot damn i definitely wasn't dissapointed at all there either. Valiant's Cyberwar is an excellent example of what i like to see in a secret map, something that completely takes me from the campaign i'm going through and blasts me into a different realm.

 

Now my problem has been that always nagging feeling at the back of my head that i just can't exit a level without finding all secrets and if i do, it bothers me for a little for the rest of the playthrough. I don't want to look at guides on my first playthrough of a WAD so all i can do it just inspect every little corner of a map after killing most of the monsters. Thanks, Doom Zero, you broke me!

Edited by Muusi

Share this post


Link to post

I used to dislike secret levels while loving secrets themselves. When I made my first set of Doom maps, I skipped using the secret exits but I screwed up and placed the final map in the wrong slot, not that anybody noticed. lol.

 

I thought the Ultimate Doom secret levels were ok but not that memorable. Doom 2 secret levels were boring and a waste of an opportunity to make something cool and instead of some Wolfenstein Nazis they could've had another demon in there.

 

I don't think I started to even like secret maps until Quake and Quake 2.... tho I hated that Quake 2 level with the timer. I spent all that time tracking down how to get there and it's a timed disappointment. Especially after previous secret maps like the Lost Station which were pretty cool.

 

I do like secrets and searching for them can be fun. I like secrets when they're more than just a closet. I have a rather large secret area in one of my maps that's the size of a small map... you can see into it from 3d bars in the floor.

 

The alternate path thing is something I kinda touched on with UDMF in Vilecore 2. I have a map that takes you to a secret map and when you come back to the next map it loads you at a different player start.

Share this post


Link to post
4 hours ago, MtPain27 said:

MAPPERS: How do you like to use secret levels, if at all? How rigorously do you try to hide them? What existing secret maps, if any, have inspired you or informed your own work in some way? Of the categories I laid out above (gimmicky/experimental/challenging/etc.), do you see yourself gravitating towards any particular school of thought? 

 

Secret maps i put is mostly "the hardest map we ready for ya" or different theme entirely, or even a recreation of a level from another game, like TNT's MAP31 and Doom 2 MAP31 and 32. And how about hiding it? I usually make it unnecessary cryptic like walking over a linedef you didn't see (that was semi sarcastic). 

 

4 hours ago, MtPain27 said:

PLAYERS: Do you actively look for secret maps? If so, what do you like to see in secret levels? Which one(s) is/are your favorite? What are some of the weirdest or most memorable secret maps you've ever found/played? Are there any you really enjoyed that you don't think get enough attention?

Sometimes, I don't really expect secret level to be catagory above, so I can (hopefully) get suprised. 

 

Perhaps Wonderful Doom E3M9 is one of my favorite secret maps, it's kinda funny and interesting to see your STARTAN base mixed with MIDVINE and GSTONE. The most memorable and weird maps? Ok then here's the list:

-Ancient Aliens MAP32

-Speed of Doom MAP31 and 32

-Doom 2 MAP31 and 32

-Doom 1 Warrens

-Go 2 It

-Go 4 It

- Anubis from TNT: Revilution

-Have @ It

-Valiant MAP31

-Plutonia 2 MAP33

-Alien Vendetta MAP31

- The map i mention before

- And many more that i can't remember

Edited by lokbustam257

Share this post


Link to post

Considering that most doom megawads use secret maps in the doom 2 style (fun gimmick levels that deliberately play/look like nothing else in the megawad) or the plutonia style (The hardest levels in the wad) and also considering that I'm bad at doom I tend to save secret levels for repeat playthroughs though I don't actively avoid them. I think they're a welcome change of format though them always being at map 15 makes them a bit repetitive

 

That said I think doom 64 is the gold standard of secret maps since it has seven of them. Three of them are for 100% completions. One of them hectic the super secret level is used to unlock the final three which you can only access from a bonus menu you get after beating hectic. Finally into the void is probably my favorite secret level in all of doom. It's asthetic and atmosphere are wholly unique with combat focused on managing pain elemental snipers floating in the blue nothing while dealing with mean clashes with hell nobles, aracnotrons, and mancubi.

Share this post


Link to post

Secret maps were what got me into playing and making slaughter or challenge maps... The gateway drug for me was Speed of Doom map 31 and 32, in particular the intermission text between the two...

 

"The pyramid of death" was one of the first secret maps I came across that immediately got me hooked... That's not to say SoD 31 was less interesting, but 32 was just so over the top that I was motivated to beat it fair and square... Coming back to the intermission screen, it mentions which other secret maps it took inspiration from - most notably HR2 32 "playground" and Alien vendetta's "no guts, no glory"... A quick search later I had the PWADs on my hard drive, and started chunking away at these maps... For a time, I had the habit to look specifically for secret maps first and foremost, because it seemed -at least around that time - that the kind of stuff I was interested in was typically relegated to these slots of megawads, because scope and difficulty of these maps didn't seem to fit into what was usually part and parcel of megawads back then...

 

Fast forward a couple months, and I learned that there were WADs which happened to be "just these maps"... Sunder, new gothic movement, phmlspd... I was at home from the perspective of a player...

 

As for making maps, and how secret maps factor into that, I tend to make tricky or mean-spirited maps, many of which were inspired by the very maps that once left such an impression on me, and motivated me to actually sit down and "learn the map"...

 

As for the purpose of secret maps, sure... They're good "optional" mapslots for the gimmicky stuff, or the balls to the walls kind of material that I like to play, which is why I'm assuming they're still used like that in many projects, even though things seem to have homogenized a lot over the course of the last 10 or so years...

 

Perhaps there's an argument to be made that the secret maps of the olden days were "proving grounds" for concepts that were a bit off the beaten paths back then, but not so much nowadays...

Share this post


Link to post

I was actually logging on to make a thread about secret maps a few minutes ago. Looks like I was beat to it by about six hours.

 

I actually don't look for secret maps all that often. I find that a lot of them are dedicated to putting up a wall in the form of massive slaughter combat because it's the secret map and that's what Go 2 It did. I also got pretty burnt on them after trying out the secret levels in Ancient Aliens and finding they weren't up to the standard of the rest of that megawad. 

 

Personally I'm a fan of the more experimental secret maps, usually the ones that differ from the rest of the megawad in combat or visual style. It makes them feel very rewarding to find, especially if you get a ton of goodies along with it if you're playing continuously. 

 

This actually brings up another question I wonder about frequently. Why do many Doom 2 megawads use MAP15 as the map to enter the secret level from? I know Boom and Doom 2 have the triggers available for every map, so is it just another case of tradition?

Share this post


Link to post
14 minutes ago, BunnyWithBeans said:

This actually brings up another question I wonder about frequently. Why do many Doom 2 megawads use MAP15 as the map to enter the secret level from? I know Boom and Doom 2 have the triggers available for every map, so is it just another case of tradition?

Secret exits only work properly in the MAP15 and MAP31 slots. In Ultimate Doom, you can enter a secret level from any map, but the exit of the secret level leads to a predefined slot, limiting its usage. More on this here: https://doomwiki.org/wiki/Secret_level

Share this post


Link to post

I like when a secret map does something unusual, either in terms of gameplay or theme, though gameplay-wise I prefer gimmicks or puzzles over the map simply being harder or more monster-dense than the rest of the set. In the early 2000s, secret maps tended to feel like they were tacked-on and not taken super seriously (Scythe 2, Kama Sutra, Vile Flesh, etc.), and toward the 2010s they started to be explorations of unusual concepts that were meant to feel like standouts in the overall progression because of how cool the concept was (The map 31 slots of Speed of Doom, Resurgence, and Valiant particularly exemplify this). However, this itself sort of embodies the idea that regular maps should be "normal" and gimmicks or particularly colorful/unusual concepts should be rare, which is now also becoming a less common attitude. Maybe my favorite use of secret maps in a classic D2 progression is Ancient Aliens, which has wild and colorful maps throughout its main progression and sneaks "normal" maps (a gray techbase and a Hell map) into the secret slots as the "gimmick" (though both are good maps and "Gray Dwarf" is one of my favorites in the megawad, which also helps). I suppose what I really like best is for every map to feel conceptually interesting, and for the secret maps to simply be additional interesting concepts that you have to work a bit harder to access (e.g., No End in Sight, Adventures of Square).

Share this post


Link to post

I generally prefer secret maps to be 'something different,' which could be a lot of different things: gimmicky/experimental gameplay, thematically difference, a joke/meta-commentary, etc. So most of the IWAD maps would qualify... and probably helped shaped my opinion of what secret maps should be. Fortress of Mystery has the infighting gimmick (and a good "oh shit!" moment at the time), Warrens has a thematic gimmick (also a good twist the first time), the Wolfenstein maps are a gag/homage, and the TNT maps are thematically different and somewhat novel themes. Plutonia, I give a pass to at the time, since "super hard" maps weren't really a thing yet.

 

Now, though, I'm not a fan of the secret maps just being a designated 'hard slot' map. It's a tough line to walk -- if it's challenging but just enough, sure, a player will feel accomplished when beating it. But for those who find such difficult maps outside their skill range, it makes finding the secret not feel like a reward, but a punishment. Yeah, once you know, you can skip it, but then it feels like you're missing content, since a level is... well, a level. Feels different than say, playing a WAD on Hurt Me Plenty and "missing out" on playing it on UV or -fast or some other challenge. As @Nine Inch Heels points out, you can find whole WADs of that stuff now, so for those who like that style, it seems better to just keep those in their own releases instead of including them as part of an otherwise easier WAD.

 

I do think that because of the way the secret levels are hard-coded, there are some interesting things you can do with them, such as the "alternate path" that @Doomkid and @Dark Pulse mentioned. I think that's perfectly valid too. Part of me does feel like making a megawad carries certain expectations, like seeing what someone can come up with creatively for the two secret maps... but a branching storyline is another form of creativity.

 

@cannonball already mentioned it, but one of my favorites that immediately came to mind was Doom 2 Reloaded's MAP32, with its progression of secrets and seeing how far you can figure it out, being able to exit at any time when you get stuck. Kinda like "The Impossible Quiz" in WAD form.

Share this post


Link to post

Anything different then the rest of mapset, or something special, could be a secret map, imo. It's worth mentioning that the one and only secret map of Struggle (MAP31 and 32 are not secret levels in that wad, but MAP15B and MAP15C) was the very first playable map I've ever made, back in 2006. Finishing solo megawad project was one of objectives I wanted to achieve in my lifetime, so it's no wonder I left something meaningful as a secret level.

 

My favorite secret levels are Killer Colours from Alien Vendetta, and Anagnorisis from Eviternity. Killer Colours simply made me fall in love with blue textures, while the rest of the level demonstrated the concept of "colored sections" pretty well. This concept was used in many other levels, such as Warp of Time from Hell Grounds, and My Fav from Japanese Community Project. Anagnorisis, on the other hand, has everything I like about level design; gorgeous, ultra-giant scale, interconnected non-linear layout, etc. It also works as a secret level very well, since the rest of the wad, except MAP19 (which is also one of my favorites from the wad), has relatively compact layout and shorter playtime for each level. The secret level also has its own unique theme, a giant fortification complex on the lava pit, instead of the themes from the rest of chapters.

Share this post


Link to post
2 hours ago, BunnyWithBeans said:

This actually brings up another question I wonder about frequently. Why do many Doom 2 megawads use MAP15 as the map to enter the secret level from? I know Boom and Doom 2 have the triggers available for every map, so is it just another case of tradition?

  • Doom
    • E1M9 is accessed from E1M3.
    • E2M9 is accessed from E2M5.
    • E3M9 is accessed from E3M6.
    • E4M9 is accessed from E4M2.
  • Doom II/Final Doom
    • MAP31 is accessed from MAP15.
    • MAP32 is accessed from MAP31.

In Doom, technically you can use them in any other level - but the destinations they return you to once you clear the secret level are hardcoded, and that's basically the issue at play here.

 

If you use the secret exits in any other map slot, after you clear the secret level, the game will automatically push you to the hardcoded map slot. In other words, if you put a secret exit in E1M1, you will go to E1M9, then once you clear E1M9, you will go to E1M4. You will never visit E1M2 or E1M3.

 

This can be used/abused to let the player skip maps (if done in a map slot before the normal secret level exit - so to use E1 as an example, by placing a secret exit in E1M1/E1M2), loop back to the exact same originating map (if done on the map slot the secret map returns you to - have the secret level exit in E1M4), or even send you backwards in the level order (if done on a slot after where the secret map returns you to - so do the secret level in E1M5 or later).

 

In Doom II, it's different: If you use a secret exit outside of the pre-defined levels (MAP15/MAP31), you simply repeat the last level entered via the intermission screen (i.e; you restart the level basically). If for some reason you don't have this (by, say, doing it on MAP01) it will simply re-kick you to MAP01 anyway. Some source ports (like ZDoom) change this to move you to the next normal level if there's no coded secret level definition.

 

"True" secret levels anywhere only became possible with the advent of MAPINFO-based source ports, which removed all the hardcoded definitions and allowed the mapper to define these. Boom, in this respect, follows the same behavior as Doom, and cannot have its secret levels fully customized.

Edited by Dark Pulse

Share this post


Link to post
5 hours ago, Doom_Dude said:

I used to dislike secret levels while loving secrets themselves. When I made my first set of Doom maps, I skipped using the secret exits but I screwed up and placed the final map in the wrong slot, not that anybody noticed. lol.

 

Are you referring to the original Vilecore? I always wondered why Map 32 was the titular Vilecore map instead of Map 30. Vilecore was the very first megawad I ever encountered on the Internet, so I intend to revisit it and complete it someday.

Share this post


Link to post

I consider myself more of a mapper than anything else, so I’ll approach this topic from that angle.

 

I think a good secret exit in a regular map is a series of secrets and puzzles woven through the map. My E3M6 in Doom The Way id Did is probably the best example of this, as some of the secrets in that map are just secrets and others chain together to open up an extra area and get you a key for the locked door in there. MAP15 of Scourge, my first release, also follows this line of thinking, but is a bit more primitive, whilst MAP15 of 25 Years on Earth dedicated every secret to the secret exit, with a chain of five secrets that build up to block off the undesirable normal exit and give you the key to unlock the secret one. MAP31 from the same megaWAD has a secret exit primarily built around the 30 second door sector special, so is the exception to the rule in that it’s more about speed running and knowing in advance, although I did add an alternative way of getting there in the One Year Late Edition. I think even the released Virus episode I made adhered to the rule of multiple secrets unlocking the exit, but I’d have to check it out again to be sure.

 

 As for what secret levels should be... I’m more of the school of thought that they should be a reward, rather than a hidden challenge. Now, the reward may be a gimmick that’s hopefully fun, or it could be a secret weapon (the BFG9000 as a reward for continuous players in 25yoe MAP32, and even the early plasma rifle in MAP31 are the main examples), but also a “different” theme or style of map - even a guest map - can be cool. Hiding a Doom-themed map in Virus, or Twisted Joke in my first volume of Persephone, were good examples of how a fun change of theme can be a reward, as was the upbeat holiday-themed 25yoe MAP31. A more advanced map made after everything else in Scourge was less good, although at least an improvement on an hour-long attempt at a magnum opus, which was what was there in the original release before I separated that map out into its own thing (Warpzone).

 

So, in short - a chain of secrets leading to a significant reward, ideally both the map itself being a fun theme and also some kind of boon for continuous play.

Share this post


Link to post

As a player, I almost always try to find the secret exits. I prefer the secret maps to be different from the rest of the Mapset rather than being just another ordinary map.

 

The most memorable secret maps for me are probably Valiant's Map31, D2TWiD's both "Commander Keen" maps, Eviternity's Map32, Alien Vendetta's Map32, Doom Zero's Map31.

Share this post


Link to post

Create an account or sign in to comment

You need to be a member in order to leave a comment

Create an account

Sign up for a new account in our community. It's easy!

Register a new account

Sign in

Already have an account? Sign in here.

Sign In Now
×