Jump to content
Search In
  • More options...
Find results that contain...
Find results in...
kraflab

MBF21 Specification v1.2 Release

Recommended Posts

This is fantastic, and goes far beyond what I expected. Thanks to everyone involved for making this happen.

Share this post


Link to post
32 minutes ago, boris said:

 

The wiki says that

 

 

Just to clarify: the config comes with UDB, it's just not enabled by default. The users don't have do download the config somewhere else or anything like that.

/fixed.

Share this post


Link to post
4 hours ago, WashingMachineEnthusiasts said:

Which settings in the Options lump define complevel 9 infighting behaviour as opposed to complevel 11 infighting behaviour?

 

In my opinion complevel 11 infighting behaviour is the biggest setback to mapping for MBF, so being able to enforce the old behaviour by a lump makes this new complevel worth it on its own (although I am interested to try out some of the other features as well).

The old behaviour is actually the default in mbf21. The key for this is "comp_pursuit", and setting it to 1 is the old behaviour.

Share this post


Link to post

Looks promising, lots of exciting new features here.

 

One more bug possibly worth mentioning: the A_LineEffect code has a bug and only works correctly for a subset of linedef types; this could be an ideal time to fix it.

Share this post


Link to post
Posted (edited)
7 hours ago, El Inferno said:

Is it possible to increase the 65k line limit and the blockmap size limit? 

 

As I understand it, this isn't a limitation of the source port, this is a limitation of the map format. For bigger maps, you need the UDMF map format, which is supported by the Eternity Engine (and the ZDoom family of ports, but this new spec isn't present there yet). 

 

Re the new spec: fantastic work everyone! It's been a long time since we had an upgraded spec that targets this kind of "mid-level" source port feature list. Including support for UMAPINFO is excellent too.

Share this post


Link to post
Posted (edited)

image.png.2847604500da47de90b264025d6c89da.png

Hey in regards of the dehacked features, is there a way to access it? or do we have to wait untill whacked updates to support it?

Currently i've tried with things and Weapon stuff but i am not sure if it works, which i should add you guys should probably put examples for also Weapons and others just in case, while we wait for the proper update.

Share this post


Link to post

DECOHack will have support for it soonish, Xaser and I just need to figure out how to cram it all in without everything looking too confusing.

Share this post


Link to post

Wait what is this doing that's so cool, I need to know.

Share this post


Link to post
3 hours ago, TheMightyHeracross said:

Question: are these new features usable alongside DEHEXTRA features, and with that format's extra things and frames?

 

Technically speaking, MBF21, DEHEXTRA, and UMAPINFO are three separate "standards" that don't directly mess with each other, but in practice, there's already pretty good support for the latter two in the current "boom-compatible" port space, so practically speaking you'll have all 3 at your disposal once MBF21 support starts making the rounds.

 

tl;dr: yes. That's the best way to use 'em. :D

Share this post


Link to post

In a later spec, could it be made possible to delegate the chainsaw to its own key (8) and disable the toggle with the fist (somewhere in OPTIONS or something)? This was already kind of talked about in the PRB+ github, but I noticed that weapon priority cannot be set via OPTIONS, so replacing the chainsaw in a DEHACKED patch right now would force the user to cycle through it to get to the fist unless they happen to know the workaround -- which I certainly didn't know until recently.

 

Granted, this is an edge case. Just wanted to put it out there since the chainsaw seems to me the only candidate for a custom weapon replacement if you want to keep the other weapons similar.

Share this post


Link to post
On 5/30/2021 at 1:41 AM, Xaser said:
  • Granular control over monster infighting and projectile/splash damage susceptibility (e.g. you can make barons and knights infight, or make imps immune to cacodemons and barrels, and all sorts of funky combinations)

 

 

I'm not a mapper/modder, but as a player, this hypes me. I always thought that different infighting rules could be a good avenue to make new enemies with their own distinct gimmicks, like one that ignore infighting, another that is more susceptible and accepts infight from damage of their own race, etc.

Share this post


Link to post

Oh, OH, OH!

 

God, there's so many things I can do with all of this! And thank you for fixing the generalized walkover crushers, I was near tearing my hair out last year trying to figure out what was going on (and then finally doing so once I learned that).

Man, with features like these and UMAPINFO, we're gonna see a lot more fun variety in the future!

Share this post


Link to post

Is there a plan to have an option that allows a barrel to explode when crushed rather than gib? I guess not, but it doesn’t hurt to ask..

Share this post


Link to post

This is really more a question about the extended dehacked, but is there any way yet to add in new sprite frames rather than replacing existing ones (and therefore having an implicit limit on the number of new monsters/decorations that can be added)?

Share this post


Link to post

Yup, DEHEXTRA defines a range of new sprites (SP00 through SP99) -- sounds too.

Share this post


Link to post
1 minute ago, ChopBlock223 said:

Wait, so is that only 100 sprite frames?

 

100 sprite namespaces -- remember that they all support 29 (0-28) subsprites (A-Z plus [, \, and ]).

Share this post


Link to post

Does MBF21 allow for customized level progression (for example, having a secret exit in map 08 lead you to map 31)?

Share this post


Link to post
16 minutes ago, capsaicin said:

Does MBF21 allow for customized level progression (for example, having a secret exit in map 08 lead you to map 31)?

UMAPINFO does, which is also a new cross-port standard. MBF21, UMAPINFO, and DEHEXTRA all go hand-in-hand.

Share this post


Link to post
Posted (edited)

Sounds exciting if it spreads to other ports!

 

About these flags:

Quote

SHORTMRANGE Short missile range (archvile)

HIGHERMPROB Higher missile attack probability (cyberdemon)

RANGEHALF Use half distance for missile attack probability (cyberdemon, mastermind, revenant, lost soul)

NOTHRESHOLD Has no targeting threshold (archvile)

LONGMELEE Has long melee range (revenant)

All these were already introduced as things properties before: https://github.com/fabiangreffrath/crispy-doom/pull/636

Imho, extra flags can conflict with other ports and it's less flexible for things that might well be numbers.

 

Things like "NORADIUSDMG" could be instead a "Splash Damage Multiplier" property. So you could have an enemy that takes much more damage from explosions or has certain level of resistance (up to 100% resistance), instead of either immune or normal.

 

About the flags for map bosses, doesn't UMAPINFO cover that?

Edited by Ferk

Share this post


Link to post

The flags you've mentioned predate the linked PR by perhaps two decades. They were chosen because they already exist in eternity and are easy to implement (or already exist) in other ports. Non-demo-compatible ports can translate these easily enough into their systems in place under the hood. I.e., it's easy to turn "on" into a default value and "off" into 0, if you are translating a flag into a number, but you can't go in the other direction. The goal here was not to give everything unlimited flexibility but rather to give more control over where doom's behaviours are set or not. You can always generalize more and more things (and we did in various places), but there's a natural speed limit with these kinds of things. About umapinfo: as far as I understand it, not every port supports umapinfo. If all your targets do, then you very well may have no use for those flags.

Share this post


Link to post

Please dehardcode the lost soul attack speed.

Share this post


Link to post

Small spec update to v1.2:

 

- Added FULLVOLSOUNDS thing flag (full volume see / death sounds).

 

As far as why the BOSS flag is there, since it appears redundant, this flag existed already in heretic and eternity, so it made sense to support it. The new flags allow you to decompose that behaviour into individual parts.

 

This update just affects sound volume - it has no effect on demo sync.

Share this post


Link to post

Is it too late to request a feature to have gun-activated teleport actions?

Share this post


Link to post

Create an account or sign in to comment

You need to be a member in order to leave a comment

Create an account

Sign up for a new account in our community. It's easy!

Register a new account

Sign in

Already have an account? Sign in here.

Sign In Now
×