Microsoft Windows 11 confirmed exclusive to 64-bit CPUs.

[ketmar]

9 hours ago, Quasar said:

Microsoft is in fact currently working with Intel and AMD to implement the Pluton module itself into desktop PC CPUs. I think TPM 2.0 is just a hold-over until they can get that rammed in, and then we'll see Windows 12 eventually requiring a Pluton-enabled processor instead.

anyway, i really hope that win11 will eventually completely forbid running unsigned executables, so i could stop doing windows builds of k8vavoom.

[Maes]

13 minutes ago, ketmar said:

anyway, i really hope that win11 will eventually completely forbid running unsigned executables, so i could stop doing windows builds of k8vavoom.

That's what unrestricted, hacked, or otherwise "jailbroken" pirated versions will be for ;-)

 

As long as checks and restrictions remain something tacked-on as an afterthought ("We got thing X to work, now also.make it ask for permission from Y"), rather than something designed-in at the most visceral code level.possible and frequently repeated, there will always be a "kill switch" or "backdoor" of sorts, either intentional or unintentional.

 

Crackers have always been very good at finding this sort of thing, and hardware-based protection, even at boot, didn't always guarantee invulnerability/undefeatability. Lots of causes celebres of that in the industry. It all depends on the motivation: e.g. the PSX and XBOX (the first ones....) boot copy-,protection were defeated pretty quickly, as did DVD's CSS. OTOH, after nearly 20 years, MAME still doesn't fully supports Gals Panic 2 :'(

[Edward850]

21 minutes ago, ketmar said:

anyway, i really hope that win11 will eventually completely forbid running unsigned executables, so i could stop doing windows builds of k8vavoom.

Not even the Xbox prevents you from running unsigned executables. Deliberately so, the Series S/X has a whole homebrew scene. And no it's not a mistake, it's intended, and has no affect on the console's security.

[dpJudas]

3 hours ago, ketmar said:

anyway, i really hope that win11 will eventually completely forbid running unsigned executables, so i could stop doing windows builds of k8vavoom.

Why wait? You could stop doing it right now!

[Wadmodder Shalton]

3 hours ago, Maes said:

MAME still doesn't fully supports Gals Panic 2 :'(

MAME also still can't crack the copy protection method of Primal Rage either.

[Dark Pulse]

3 hours ago, Edward850 said:

Not even the Xbox prevents you from running unsigned executables. Deliberately so, the Series S/X has a whole homebrew scene. And no it's not a mistake, it's intended, and has no affect on the console's security.

In fact, it arguably helps keep the console secure. After all, one of the big motivations of jailbreaking is to run homebrew software on the device.

 

Allow that by default? Now the only motivation to jailbreak it is outright piracy.

 

You immediately take a large number of people off the field who could break your system, whose motivations are not piracy but just wanting to run their own stuff on it. And there's actually quite a few devs in those scenes who are pro-homebrew but anti-piracy.

 

16 minutes ago, Wadmodder Shalton said:

MAME also still can't crack the copy protection method of Primal Rage either.

They reached out to the original devs even - anyone they tried to contact either did not reply, or refused to help.

 

Someday, it'll get cracked, when someone who's bored enough has enough of a mind to try to figure it out. CPS2 encryption took like 15 years, but it too got cracked. CPS3 fell not long after. Of course, both schemes lasted the entire life of the platform - the last CPS2 game was 2003, the last CPS3 game was 1999 - so they both did their job of protecting the system during its commercial life.

 

(Mind you, CPS2 was soft-broken in 2001 via XOR tables, but that was basically just a hack to turn the encrypted ROMs into unencrypted ones.)

[ketmar]

2 hours ago, dpJudas said:

Why wait? You could stop doing it right now!

it won't be fun enough. good timing is important!

[Kurogachii]

I expect windows 11 being just like windows 10 but double the updates and consuming CPU out of nowhere.

 

"Windows 11, now compatible with tik tok, oh and the taskbar is in the middle now har har"

Laughs in windows update

[Kinsie]

1 hour ago, Wadmodder Shalton said:

MAME also still can't crack the copy protection method of Primal Rage either.

The Primal Rage copy protection is at the hardware level (involving a custom FPGA chip), and the MAME team prefer to properly emulate the mechanics of such hardware instead of brute-forcing through them (since this can result in copy-protection induced bugs, like the ones that existed in Operation Wolf for many years, or the ones that currently exist in Primal Rage in MAME and various commercial arcade compilations). Sadly, the one guy on the MAME team with the prowess and know-how to properly handle and emulate such things passed away a couple of years ago. If you know someone with similarly intense skills, point 'em the MAME team's way!

[Cacodemon345]

https://www.pcworld.com/article/3623713/why-windows-11-is-leaving-so-many-pcs-behind.html

 

This explains the high system requirements of Windows 11.

[A Nobody]

64 bit only? Big mistake.

[Cacodemon345]

7 minutes ago, The Strife Commando said:

64 bit only? Big mistake.

Nah it's not a big mistake.

[Wadmodder Shalton]

On 7/4/2021 at 10:41 AM, Cacodemon345 said:

Nah it's not a big mistake.

Sadly, the last 32-bit CPUs were manufactured around the early 2000s at least according to Steam forum users that I've talked to regarding Windows 11 being exclusive to 64-bit x86-x64 & ARM64 processors.

 

https://steamcommunity.com/discussions/forum/11/3057363335750868481/

 

https://www.extremetech.com/computing/324102-microsoft-introduces-windows-11-makes-microsoft-account-mandatory

 

Also, this is unfortunately the end of the old school Pentium CPUs from the 1990s to late-2000s, the ones with the original naming schemes (Pentium 1, Pentium Overdrive, Pentium Pro, Pentium MMX, Pentium 2, Pentium 3, Pentium 4, Pentium Extreme Edition, Pentium D, Pentium M & Pentium Dual-Core to be exact).

 

Edited October 15, 2021 by Wadmodder Shalton

[Blzut3]

11 hours ago, The Strife Commando said:

64 bit only? Big mistake.

Seriously, I think more people were surprised that Windows 10 even had a 32-bit version than are surprised that Windows 11 doesn't.

 

Many hardware vendors stopped providing 32-bit Windows 10 drivers years ago.  It is also worth pointing out (and I think someone in this thread has already done so) that there's only a handful of processors that are supported on 8.1 and 10 which aren't 64-bit compatible.  This is due to the NX bit requirement.  Now the fact that 8.1/10 64-bit require a few instructions not supported on the oldest 64-bit CPUs so that set of few CPUs includes the Socket 939 Athlon 64s, but even considering that it's a small number of people that would be running 32-bit Windows 10 out of necessity rather than choice.

11 hours ago, Wadmodder Shalton said:

Sadly, the last 32-bit CPUs were manufactured around the early 2000s

Intel Quark 2013-2015.  The original Intel Atoms in 2008-2009 (although some 64-bit compatible ones are mixed in there).  Even Core was 2006 which is usually not considered "early" of a decade.   Some VIA C7s were also released in 2006.  Then of course there's also the Vortex86.

 

Not that any of this matters, this response is just a reflex. :P

[kinker31]

On 6/29/2021 at 5:32 AM, deus-ex said:

If you are curious whether your system meets the official requirements for Window 11, here's a handy tool providing a fast and easy overview: https://github.com/rcmaehl/WhyNotWin11/releases

 

Tried out the program, the only thing really stopping my computer from upgrading to 11 when the time comes is my not-really-that-impressive CPU isn't on the supported list, and that I don't have TPM on my system. I hope I'll be able to skip the TPM part when I do take the upgrade, since I kinda need it disabled for virtual machines, maybe.

[deus-ex]

1 hour ago, kinker31 said:

Tried out the program, the only thing really stopping my computer from upgrading to 11 when the time comes is my not-really-that-impressive CPU isn't on the supported list, and that I don't have TPM on my system. I hope I'll be able to skip the TPM part when I do take the upgrade, since I kinda need it disabled for virtual machines, maybe.

 

You won't be able to upgrade via the Windows update function. But if you download the final Windows 11 ISO using Microsoft's Media Creation Tool, once available, and create a bootable CD/USB stick, you will be able to skip the TPM requirement via a registry key entry which you'll have to apply during installation. For details see here

 

As for the CPU not in the compatibility list, it is said that Windows 11 will display an incompatibility message, but will allow continuing the installation process. This is a necessity, as many big companies cannot afford to upgrade each and every system on time but want/need to upgrade to Windows 11 rather short-termed.

[Cacodemon345]

https://docs.microsoft.com/en-us/windows-hardware/design/device-experiences/oem-hvci-enablement#default-enablement

 

Seems like the CPU requirements might be bypassable after all in the final version.

[deus-ex]

19 minutes ago, Cacodemon345 said:

https://docs.microsoft.com/en-us/windows-hardware/design/device-experiences/oem-hvci-enablement#default-enablement

 

Seems like the CPU requirements might be bypassable after all in the final version.

 

Oh, really?

 

16 hours ago, deus-ex said:

 

As for the CPU not in the compatibility list, it is said that Windows 11 will display an incompatibility message, but will allow continuing the installation process. This is a necessity, as many big companies cannot afford to upgrade each and every system on time but want/need to upgrade to Windows 11 rather short-termed.

 

[Cacodemon345]

At least provide a reputable source for the claims you make. I only know of the main author of the Elementalism megawad who once explained why Windows 10 S existed because he was a Microsoft employee.

 

The pages in the Windows 11 Compatibility Cookbook also changed in the meanwhile to remove mentions of soft and hard floor.

[deus-ex]

24 minutes ago, Cacodemon345 said:

At least provide a reputable source for the claims you make.

 

For example: https://www.xda-developers.com/install-windows-11-unsupported-pc/

[Cacodemon345]

45 minutes ago, deus-ex said:

 

For example: https://www.xda-developers.com/install-windows-11-unsupported-pc/

These aren't the official methods to bypass Windows 11 requirements.

Edited July 6, 2021 by Cacodemon345

[deus-ex]

Of course, there are no official guides by Mícrosoft to bypass the restrictions. That would contradict the official statements about the minimum requirements. What is your point here, why do you ask for official approval of the available methods?

[Dark Pulse]

It'd still be a good idea to get a system where you don't need to bypass it. I mean... if they allow a backdoor bypass, it means some keys and stuff will be only about as secure as they are now, since it essentially won't be using TPM.

 

Might be a minor thing to most, but obviously it means we'll hear all about how some company got hacked, because their IT disabled the TPM check, and then they're villified until it's also found out that the reason IT had to do that was because the bosses were too cheap to upgrade their hardware.

 

In short: If you got TPM-capable hardware, just turn the damn thing on. If not, you've got like four years to get it; you'll almost certainly have a new PC in that time, and it's not like MS is going to dump Win10 the second Win11 is released.

 

(Not to mention that the Win11 update won't even roll out to Win10 users until 2022, apparently.)

[Cacodemon345]

Many will even protest against TPM due to its abuse for anti-piracy/DRM.

[Antkibo]

I don't care about word-size exclusivity, what I want is for them to purge all the shit from their spyware system. Subtract 11 from 10 and make a Windows -1. Now that would make me hype.

[Wadmodder Shalton]

38 minutes ago, Cacodemon345 said:

Many will even protest against TPM due to its abuse for anti-piracy/DRM.

They're also dropping support for the legacy BIOS firmware meaning that you permanently need a UEFI firmware.

[Cacodemon345]

1 hour ago, Wadmodder Shalton said:

They're also dropping support for the legacy BIOS firmware meaning that you permanently need a UEFI firmware.

Nah DUET exists to remedy this problem.

[Wadmodder Shalton]

I remember hearing about 3D Pinball Space Cadet being removed from Windows Vista because Microsoft had problems porting & compiling it to the Itanium & x86-x64 architectures (the latter then known as AMD64), in a post by Raymond Chen, there was a bug with the collision detection system, that they couldn't debug the program.

Apparently, Windows XP Professional x64 Edition has a 64-bit version of Space Cadet Pinball that has a few issues. I've found this out in a video by Michael MJD where he installed a pre-release version of the OS on an old HP laptop.

If Google or the Chromium developers drop support 32-bit IA-32 CPUs from future versions of the Blink layout engine & the Chromium Embedded Framework used in their web browsers, then this would likely cause problems with Digital Distribution Stores, because their client software is coded only in 32-bit.

 

For example, if Valve was to back port 64-bit exclusive code from Chromium to their Steam client which is 32-bit only, then a few additional problems will occur during compiling.

Edited October 24, 2021 by Wadmodder Shalton

[Taw Tu'lki]

I have a 64-bit PCs. But I'm not interested in Windows 11.

Prefer to use Windows 10 until he stop supporting. And after that turn to Linux or BSD (or another alternative OS).

[Wadmodder Shalton]

On 7/6/2021 at 1:56 PM, deus-ex said:

Of course, there are no official guides by Mícrosoft to bypass the restrictions. That would contradict the official statements about the minimum requirements. What is your point here, why do you ask for official approval of the available methods?

Even Microsoft would advice users against modifying the setup files of Windows 11 if they heard about this. They just wanted all processors that don't support TPM and those that aren't 64-bit to become e-wasted.

Not sure how game engines like Unreal Engine, CryEngine, Unity & RPG Maker are going to respond to Windows 11 being 64-bit exclusive for the time being.

Edited January 7, 2022 by Wadmodder Shalton