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Engired

(RELEASE) Doom: The Way We Remember It (V2)

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Posted (edited)

E2:

 

Updated: Checked E2M4 and it works now.

 

Just one comment about E2M5 if you can catch the mapper: at least have a Berserk. Right now it has way too many Barons and you have no ammo.

 

E3:

 

E3M1: If you fall into the blood without pressing the switch (Linedef 99), you will softlock yourself. That room is connected to the start in the original one, so probably need to add a segment or something.

 

E3M9: You are supposed to start at Thing 0 but in reality you start at Thing 156, which breaks the map in a whole. Linedef 174 has wrong midtex. Linedef 431 is somehow impassable (you can still kill the shotgunners with RL). Linedef 314, 320, 324 doesn't actually require the Red Key.

 

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Sorry if this sounds rude, I really hope you can get better QA on the Doom 2 project because these are super obvious mistakes where you play the map once you can find it, but it seems many people don't test their own maps. Probably you need to force the mappers at least test their own map once or twice in the Doom 2 one.

 

Will report things when I play E4 tomorrow if anybody cares.

Edited by GarrettChan

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47 minutes ago, GarrettChan said:

E2:

 

Updated: Checked E2M4 and it works now.

 

Just one comment about E2M5 if you can catch the mapper: at least have a Berserk. Right now it has way too many Barons and you have no ammo.

 

E3:

 

E3M1: If you fall into the blood without pressing the switch (Linedef 99), you will softlock yourself. That room is connected to the start in the original one, so probably need to add a segment or something.

 

E3M9: You are supposed to start at Thing 0 but in reality you start at Thing 156, which breaks the map in a whole. Linedef 174 has wrong midtex. Linedef 431 is somehow impassable (you can still kill the shotgunners with RL). Linedef 314, 320, 324 doesn't actually require the Red Key.

 

------------------

 

Sorry if this sounds rude, I really hope you can get better QA on the Doom 2 project because these are super obvious mistakes where you play the map once you can find it, but it seems many people don't test their own maps. Probably you need to force the mappers at least test their own map once or twice in the Doom 2 one.

 

Will report things when I play E4 tomorrow if anybody cares.

E3M1 has a teleporter in the blood section, it shouldn't be possible to get stuck. I remember E3M9 though, I somehow thought it was supposed to be like that but it is definitely wrong. I'll get it fixed, but I do have to say that everything was thought to be okay before release, it's just that things are being found now.

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I've updated it though. As far as I know episode 4 is one of the better ones but maps like CBM's may be broken in one way.

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29 minutes ago, Engired said:

E3M1 has a teleporter in the blood section, it shouldn't be possible to get stuck. I remember E3M9 though, I somehow thought it was supposed to be like that but it is definitely wrong. I'll get it fixed, but I do have to say that everything was thought to be okay before release, it's just that things are being found now.

Tele takes you to the start. You can't get to the place with the switch, it seems.

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6 minutes ago, GarrettChan said:

Tele takes you to the start. You can't get to the place with the switch, it seems.

I see, I've put a temporary fix in but it's up to @VisionThing if he wants to do something a bit better. It'll work for now.

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Btw when Doom 2 the way we remember it is started, I wanna do MAP12 (with the caco room) and MAP15 ( with the meatball secret).

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9 minutes ago, Peter said:

Btw when Doom 2 the way we remember it is started, I wanna do MAP12 (with the caco room) and MAP15 ( with the meatball secret).

Sorry but the project has already started and both slots have been taken

 

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E4:

 

Funny that you told me E4M4 could be broken, but E4M4 is just weird and there are some inaccessible items and stuff, but it can be done. Though E4M5, the whole world is broken. You probably need to fix all those lifts...

 

----------------------

 

UV pistol starts without saves

Port: DSDA-Doom v0.19.7 -complevel 3

Total IGT: 3:21:08

Personal Difficulty Evaluation: 0.5 (out of 5; 0.5 = Ultimate Doom Ep4)

Personal Rating: 4.5 (out of 10)

 

Sorry, can't rate any higher than this because of lots of problems... I get the idea that not everybody can remember the maps clearly. On the other hand, because there are already wild examples like E1M7, then why not fill the gameplay according to your own style? For real, if the map connects differently than the original but it has cool gameplay, then it's a cool map nonetheless. However, there are quite a handful of maps where they just have big empty rooms without too many things going on, so maybe that's the idea of TNT how we remember :P

 

E1 is definitely the best one out there because it's finished, and the structure doesn't really go to anything crazy or over simplified. I guess everybody loves Episode 1 heh. That E1M7 surprise is fine by me, but gameplay wise definitely needs some thoughts to it instead of randomly putting things... I had the most fun out of Episode 1.

 

E2 is not too bad as most of the maps are represented properly to an extent. I get some of the maps are super confusing to remember (eg: E2M5), but there's no excuse to not have a more balanced and interesting game play. E2M5 is a very good example that there are way too many Barons, but you're not given enough tools to deal with them.

 

E3 is the worst in quality. A few maps are way too over simplified. E3M5 is a weird one because the basic structure are there and the details are nice. However, the north side is completely cut off from the rest and you can't use door to navigate from the east side to west side, so you have to go all around every single time, which make the gameplay super tedious. Kinda sad that E3 has the highest variance where some good maps are drowned among the bad ones.

 

E4 has similar quality compared to E2. E4M4 went way too over board in terms of structure design.

 

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Some higher quality maps in the set:

 

E1M4, E1M5, E1M6, E2M7*, E3M2, E3M5, E3M6, E4M2, E4M6, E4M8

 

*maybe good? I just don't feel good without a E2 map in there.

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32 minutes ago, GarrettChan said:

 

I made this to see what would be simplified too. People just don't remember e3 as well, and it shows. 

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7 hours ago, Engired said:

I made this to see what would be simplified too. People just don't remember e3 as well, and it shows. 

I also kind of assume this as well and it seems that's the case. I guess similar things would happen for Doom 2 about maps around 21~26. A bit sad that E3 is my favorite, but I guess how human brain works is remember everything at the start and at the end very well, but not the things in the middle.

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To be fair, if you're looking for fun levels I'm not making this WAD for that. It is built for the concept only. It executes well on that concept, and it's what I expected of those who joined. And a few bugs are expected, people don't seem to like playing in the port you want them to.

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I think it's a neat idea, and mostly a neat execution, except the Cyberdemon in E1 which I think goes against the spirit of the WAD, given that surely we all know there are no Cybs in E1.

 

Anyway, if you need anybody to contribute music for Doom 2 or any other projects, I'd be game. I thought it would have been interesting to have the music recreated for Doom 1 as well, so it's neat to hear that's what you're going for for Doom 2.

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6 minutes ago, bensaunders said:

I think it's a neat idea, and mostly a neat execution, except the Cyberdemon in E1 which I think goes against the spirit of the WAD, given that surely we all know there are no Cybs in E1.

 

Anyway, if you need anybody to contribute music for Doom 2 or any other projects, I'd be game. I thought it would have been interesting to have the music recreated for Doom 1 as well, so it's neat to hear that's what you're going for for Doom 2.

I have a lot of music slots left, both for doom 2 and doom 1.

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On 8/12/2021 at 5:39 PM, Mader Levap said:

This project is classic case of great idea, bad execution.

Hi, your comment is not very constructive.. your 2 content count in 6 years says everything.. 

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i certainly wouldn't say it was bad execution, but a little more oversight in terms of asking the question "is this actually how you remember it"? would probably be a good call next time around. i feel like a number of the maps were modernized and elaborated on a bit much - after all, it is as you remember it, not as you imagined it (which is a totally different and equally cute project idea)

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this project is a classic case of a project that wasn't started with high expectations (which is obviously fine) -- but then it really outdid itself.

 

it came together well enough, and had a catchy enough hook, that many players are probably going in with higher expectations than with comparable projects, and the tone of their criticism sounds harsher as a result.

 

but don't be discouraged by that or read it as a condemnation of the project. you had to do plenty well to get to that point. if anything, this is a pretty unusual success, both in concept and for someone starting their first community project less than a month after joining. 

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I feel like the project doesn't live up to its title. The idea is very clever, but the execution just doesn't live up to it. I was very interested to see what the levels would look like if they were remade entirely from memory, but when I played it, it felt more like an amateur attempt at a remake than an honest implementation of the concept on which it is based. Most of the changes to the levels feel deliberate and not something you'd do because of bad memory. E1M1 feels especially sloppy, like the person who made it played the original only once or twice, which I highly doubt.

 

I wouldn't mind if the project was called "Doom reimagining" or "Doom cursed", but as it stands, it's a nice curiocity and a neat way to look at familiar levels from a different perspective, but could've been much better.

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1 minute ago, ZykovEddy said:

I feel like the project doesn't live up to its title. The idea is very clever, but the execution just doesn't live up to it. I was very interested to see what the levels would look like if they were remade entirely from memory, but when I played it, it felt more like an amateur attempt at a remake than an honest implementation of the concept on which it is based. Most of the changes to the levels feel deliberate and not something you'd do because of bad memory. E1M1 feels especially sloppy, like the person who made it played the original only once or twice, which I highly doubt.

 

I wouldn't mind if the project was called "Doom reimagining" or "Doom cursed", but as it stands, it's a nice curiocity and a neat way to look at familiar levels from a different perspective, but could've been much better.

A copy of a copy is always going to be worse. It's the best many can do, it's easy to forget things, and there's really no way to be better. Very little is deliberate, your mind is much worse at remembering than you would think. E1M1 is also made by a beginner mapper, as with a couple other maps.

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1 minute ago, Engired said:

A copy of a copy is always going to be worse. It's the best many can do, it's easy to forget things, and there's really no way to be better. Very little is deliberate, your mind is much worse at remembering than you would think. E1M1 is also made by a beginner mapper, as with a couple other maps.

 

I can see that the actual idea of the project was to remake the original levels, but to deliberately make them worse/less detailed/slightly different/etc. I just don't understand where the concept of "let's remake levels from memory" comes into play.

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Just now, ZykovEddy said:

 

I can see that the actual idea of the project was to remake the original levels, but to deliberately make them worse/less detailed/slightly different/etc. I just don't understand where the concept of "let's remake levels from memory" comes into play.

It was not a deliberate attempt to make them worse. It's memory that's making things worse.

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Posted (edited)
1 hour ago, Engired said:

It was not a deliberate attempt to make them worse. It's memory that's making things worse.

 

That's why I'm so confused about this project. The levels might've been made from memory, but there are a lot of amateurish changes to them that feel very delibirate and out of place, like the entire sections of maps cut out (e1M2), unnecessary extra details (E3M2), Cyberdemon in episode 1, and so on. I really doubt that the water texture was placed in the first room of E1M1 because of bad memory, for example. The execution of the project feels like the mappers had a rough idea of the concept, but didn't know how to do it properly and didn't commit to it.


There are exeptions, of course. Some of the levels feel like the mappers did their best to commit to the idea, like E2M1 and E2M7. I just wish that every level was like that. The first levels of episode 1 especially leave a bad impression, they feel like a parody of the concept.

Edited by ZykovEddy

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Crazy memories and lots of fun. Can't wait to see more of these ideas. I just have one request. Someone with "good" memory should make the text screens.

I'm going to replay it when the midis are finished.
If all doom data were destroyed by some satan doing, I'm glad the community could remember it with so much love and extra cyberdemons.


 

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8 hours ago, Engired said:

it's easy to forget things…Very little is deliberate, your mind is much worse at remembering than you would think


100% this, there are a lot of unrealistic expectations of this project :)

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Posted (edited)
19 hours ago, ZykovEddy said:

 

That's why I'm so confused about this project. The levels might've been made from memory, but there are a lot of amateurish changes to them that feel very delibirate and out of place, like the entire sections of maps cut out (e1M2), unnecessary extra details (E3M2), Cyberdemon in episode 1, and so on. I really doubt that the water texture was placed in the first room of E1M1 because of bad memory, for example. The execution of the project feels like the mappers had a rough idea of the concept, but didn't know how to do it properly and didn't commit to it.


There are exeptions, of course. Some of the levels feel like the mappers did their best to commit to the idea, like E2M1 and E2M7. I just wish that every level was like that. The first levels of episode 1 especially leave a bad impression, they feel like a parody of the concept.

 

To stick up for Engired here: when this project was in development, as far as I could tell, it was only intended to be a quick fun little thing that wasn't expecting to get as much attention as it did. There wasn't a lot of emphasis put on quality control or committing heavily to a "proper" doom from memory project because that wasn't ever the idea in the first place, and people who didn't follow the development thread don't realize this.

The project's goal was to be a roast beef sandwich; not a medium rare, reverse-seared sous-vide wagyu picanha steak. And there's nothing wrong with that.

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Well... I have some mixed opinions about the execution of this project. maybe a bit of supervision/playtesting or giving some feedback to Mappers could have been great before it's release, I guess that was Lead's job after all... I've found a lot of issues in some maps in my first playthrough (at least in the old version of this wad) broken lifts, doors and other weird stuff... Can't remember what maps were exactly, I think it was E3M1 and E3M9, some others from E4. I just hope those issues were fixed in the latest version.

 

I totally agree with what GarrettChan said, I'm not the one to judge other's people mapping skills or memory but it's true that some maps were just too simplified and poorly made, some are just completely different and has nothing to do with the original layout like E2M2 or E4M4... Cyberdemon and cacos in E1M7...? can't really say if it that was done in purpose or not. lmao Anyways... I don't care how overly detailed or Vanilla-ish had to be but I expected a bit of polishing or balancing at least...

 

Overall, to my experience... I had a lot fun making and memorizing a map from the original doom, I think it was a neat idea for a project like this. Some maps were actually fun to play... some are not. Well, Enjoy what it is... Good luck with the sequel!

 

Also I've found a typo in the title of my map, you put ''Waster'' instead of ''Waste''. 

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