Heretic 1 or 2?

[Alientank]

I have Heretic 1 and have played the demo of heretic 2. Personally I find Heretic 1 to just be more my style, it's straightforward. I played Heretic 2's tutorial and it was very boring having to know ALL these god damn jumps rolls etc. IMO I just like Heretic 1 better, you?

[Bloodshedder]

I've never played Heretic 2, but from what I hear it differs quite a bit in genre and gameplay from the original.

[Alientank]

Ya, I prefer the first one I think simply because it's a killfest

[Naked Snake]

Heretic II sucks. Having nails pounded into your skull is more fun.

[Lüt]

The controls in Heretic 2 are awful. Raven could easily remove the enemies and sell the game as "circus acrobat trainer", a much more appropriate title since the only gameplay focus is on all the fancy acrobatics Corvus can do instead of whether or not those acrobatics prove useful in gameplay (they rarely do).

The biggest problem is the fact that you cannot run backward and shoot enemies at the same time. Enemies move faster at regular speed than you do at regular speed. For example, let's say that the enemies in the city move at 45 pixels per second. You walk at 30 pixels per second, and run at 60 pixels per second. Obviously you have to run, otherwise these dudes will catch up with you and give you a good beatdown. The common tactic in a situation like this would be to RUN BACKWARD while shooting at the enemies chasing you. But guess what? You CAN'T run backward, the crackpot acrobat instructor INSISTED that you must SOMERSAULT backward, and of course you can't shoot at enemies if you're too busy PRACTICING FOR THE UPCOMING CARNIVAL, so you have to turn your back to them, run a distance, turn around, fire a few shots, turn your back again, run a distance again, turn around again and fire another few shots again. Repeat 5,000 times and you've beaten Heretic 2. The game controls are so blatantly looks-over-functionality it's ridiculous.

Also, the acrobatics don't help you too much when you're trying to maneuver crossbeams and other thin ledges, not to mention they'll throw you into other tight spaces you cannot get out of (I had to reload games a few times because some goofy acrobatics got me "stuck" in other objects and walls).

The chasecam is also awful. It bounces off walls and ceilings and jumps all over the place in enclosed spaces (which there are plenty of in the game).

Gameplay aside, the maps are fun to explore, often very atmospheric and even cozy at times. I don't remember as much about them as I'd like, because I could never put up the effort to try to maneuver through that game a second time.

Heretic 1 all the way.

[Sephiroth]

i have only played heritic 1 shareware. thought it was ok, just not into the magic/gothic theme. didnt know there was a heritic II.

never played hexen but i like hexen II

[Ichor]

It's not that bad, although it's not nearly as fun as the first Heretic. Editing maps for Heretic 2 is also a lot harder and complicated.

The same goes for Hexen and Hexen 2. However, multiply both games' fun factors by about 20 or so.

[Grazza]

Heretic and Heretic 2 have almost nothing in common apart from their name. I'm sure Heretic 2 appeals to some people, but I'm not one of them. I loved Heretic, of course.

I quite liked Hexen 2.

[Alientank]

Ya I deleted the Heretic 2 demo it sucks ass. I should mention that I got a mint, unopened copy of Ultimate Doom that includes all 4 Doom 1 episodes as well as the complete Heretic 1 on it, for $20 off ebay, booyah! However I read that you can power up weapons in the game, how do you do that?

[AndrewB]

Lüt, about those controls, don't Diablo and Diablo II have exactly those same "hinderances"?

[Grazza]

Alientank said:

However I read that you can power up weapons in the game, how do you do that?

If you use a tome of power (the book thingy) from your inventory, then for a limited time each of your weapons will operate differently and generally inflict more damage. The gauntlets will also suck health from your victims, adding to your own health.

[Alientank]

I have picked up one of the tombs earlier (I'm only on the second level, btw I'm using Zdoom). You can only pick up one at a time correct? How do I use it? I'm not sure what key it is. How long does it last?

[Bloodshedder]

AndrewB said:

Lüt, about those controls, don't Diablo and Diablo II have exactly those same "hinderances"?

Absolutely not. From what I read, Heretic 2 plays nor looks nothing like Diablo or Diablo 2. There's no chasecam, just strict 3/4 overhead view. You use the two mouse buttons for attacks. There are no fancy acrobatic moves. However, in Diablo, you cannot move while attacking.

Alientank said:

I have picked up one of the tombs earlier (I'm only on the second level, btw I'm using Zdoom). You can only pick up one at a time correct? How do I use it? I'm not sure what key it is. How long does it last?

You can hold up to 15 or 16 of one inventory item, but I think only 1 will stay with you when you enter the next level. Use the [ and ] keys to browse the inventory until you find an item that looks like a book with a skull on the cover. Press enter to activate it; the powerup lasts for only a minute or two.

[Lüt]

AndrewB said:

Lüt, about those controls, don't Diablo and Diablo II have exactly those same "hinderances"?

I haven't played Diablo II, but Diablo never had any kind of control issue related to those of Heretic II in any manner whatsoever. Diablo's controls took maybe 5 minutes to get perfectly acquainted with, and AFAIK all the main character did was walk and attack. It's been over 3 years since I've played it though, so my memory is a bit rusty.

[Alientank]

Bloodshedder said:

You can hold up to 15 or 16 of one inventory item, but I think only 1 will stay with you when you enter the next level. Use the [ and ] keys to browse the inventory until you find an item that looks like a book with a skull on the cover. Press enter to activate it; the powerup lasts for only a minute or two.

Thanks.

[mmnpsrsoskl]

AndrewB said:

Lüt, about those controls, don't Diablo and Diablo II have exactly those same "hinderances"?

How so?

I've never experienced any control problems with Diablo 1 or 2...:?

[Amaster]

I havent played Diablio 2, but in the first, there was no jumping or acrobatics. Just walk and attack.

[AndrewB]

mmnpsrsoskl said:

How so?

I've never experienced any control problems with Diablo 1 or 2...:?

He talked about how it's impossible to run backward and shoot at the same time. I pointed out that the same thing applies to the Diablo games. Of course, I know that it's different for Heretic 2 because of other details, and that the controls suck for various reasons.

Not that I condone backward tumbling in games, but it seems logical that one shouldn't be able to run backward fast at all, let alone while shooting.

[dsm]

AndrewB said:

He talked about how it's impossible to run backward and shoot at the same time. I pointed out that the same thing applies to the Diablo games. Of course, I know that it's different for Heretic 2 because of other details, and that the controls suck for various reasons.

You can't compare the Diablo games to Heretic 2. Heretic 2 is a third person shooter following up on a first person shooter, Diablo is not a shooter, more like an RPG mock (which really has nothing to do with a real RPG).

I don't mind that they made Heretic 2 a third person shooter, but they could have done it more "fps'ish" and let out some of those darn acrobatics.

never played hexen but i like hexen II

HeXen BURIES HeXen 2 six feet under - go download the demo, quick! Go! Shoo!

Back on actual topic: I thought Heretic had some quite good ideas, having Corvus learn spells requiring mana alongside getting better weapons and I thought it was pretty interesting that he could do a number of different moves with his staff (some of the sucks hairballs though, as it takes him so damn long to strike because he needs to do all those fancy swinging acrobatics). Also the atmosphere in Silverspring (the first map in the demo that I tried) is quite good (although I DID end up screaming "SHUT UP DAMMIT!!!" at all those crying babies and crying women).

But I agree that all those movements and shit alongside a shitload of areas where you will fall down if you aren't extremely careful, pretty much ruins the fun in the game. Plus, Heretic 2 is so different from the original in many other ways that I think it kinda lets down the first person shooter fans that liked the original.

I can't tell which one I like better though. Don't get me started on Heretic 1 - I just don't like that game, period.

[scorpion]

I've played Heretic 2 a while ago, which is ofcourse a third person shooter because of the hand-to-hand combats in the game. I didn't play it a lot (since I really like the first Heretic best), but if a Mortal Kombat or Streetfighter version of this genre were to come out, I think I'd play it a little more :-P

[Ichor]

The best way to describe the controls of Heretic 2 is like playing a fantasy type Quake 2 with the chasecam always on, with some extra moves and gimmicks thrown in. The Tome of Power works differently than in Heretic, since you can use it at will, as long as you have enough offensive mana (blue). The Quartz Flasks act like medikits (can't be collected, used when picked up). It may be nice looking, but it gets boring after a while.

Diablo's are vastly different. The perspective never changes, and it's more of an RPG. Diablo 2 and the expansion pack are many times better than Diablo (just try to walk in a straight line vertically or horizontally for more than a few steps). I got the big three game pack, but I sold Diablo and kept both Diablo 2 games.

[mmnpsrsoskl]

I've had Heretic 2 for about 6 months and haven't played it. Got home that day, and had to go out, and I sorta forgot about it and now I couldn't be assed installing it, let alone finding it :P

[dsm]

Ichor said:

Diablo 2 and the expansion pack are many times better than Diablo (just try to walk in a straight line vertically or horizontally for more than a few steps). I got the big three game pack, but I sold Diablo and kept both Diablo 2 games.

Well, the controls in Diablo 2 are definitely better than Diablo 1, but as for the games themselves, Diablo 1 is far, far better imo.

Diablo 2 is fun as Hell in some areas, but most of the time you just wade through the enemies and it gets boring. In Diablo 1 it's easy at first, then it gets progressively harder, with a few breaks - but it never gets too easy and you ALWAYS have to watch your step.

In Diablo 2 it's more like:
Walk through monsters as if they weren't even there, pick up stuff, open town portal to go back to safe area and sell some of all the shit you picked up.
*Repeat for a while*
Suddenly face an annoying (99% of the time lightning enchanted) unique monster which ends up killing you 90% of the times you meet them, because you're too fucking used to just wading through monsters, so suddenly you bump straight into a monster which is far, far harder to kill, let alone survive, and...naturally you die unless you're lucky enough or unless you're extremely good at quickly adapting to rapidly changing difficulties.

Gimme Diablo 1 anyday and I can't stop playing it. Gimme Diablo 2 and I'll have to force myself through great parts of the game.

[Fletcher`]

Well let's see now..

Heretic -DOOM clone. Good, but could be better

Heretic 2 -Quake 2 clone. Lut's right. Acrobatics suck. Pretty(boring).

Hexen -DOOM evolved. Truly one of the greatest next to DOOM itself.

Hexen 2 -Hexen evolved. Don't let the fact that it uses the Quake engine dissapoint you. Great way to go back in time. :)

Diablo -Heh. :) Oh, and Diablo Multiplayer 0\/\/nz a11 too. Heh. :)

Diablo 2 -Total immersion. :)

I think you get the idea.

Ok, now I'm in the mood for D1. WTF? \:o [not anymore, too many idiots]
Wish I didn't need the CD. :P This music is perfect. [fixed. add portable CD player :P]

[DooMBoy]

Hmm, sounds like Heretic II might not be such a good game after all, control wise. I've played the shareware and full versions of Heretic I, though, and I think it's quite cool IMO.

[Chopkinsca]

sounds.... odd

another odd thing, is that people like hexen, I have it for n64, and where I live, you could buy it for $5 (cdn) and that was several years ago.

[CyRaptor]

I have the full version of Heretic: Shadows of the Serpent Riders and it's excellent. In many ways it's better than Doom (and vice versa). I've played the demo for Heretic II and I didn't think it was that bad. Not excellent, but better than most people are making it out to be.

As for Hexen, I actually like Hexen II over the original, but that's probably because i've played very little of it.

[Fletcher`]

CyRaptor said:

As for Hexen, I actually like Hexen II over the original, but that's probably because i've played very little of it.

I've played both extensively, and I can tell you hexen 1 has a more dark, gothic feel to it. Hexen II, is brighter color-wise, pretty, deadly, puzzling, and will leave you wondering what the hell that was. :)

[dsm]

KoRn said:

another odd thing, is that people like hexen, I have it for n64, and where I live, you could buy it for $5 (cdn) and that was several years ago.

I hear that the HeXen64 version is utter shite - get the pc version, it rocks.

Anyway, why I like HeXen over HeXen 2 (ok, I've only tried two different Hexen 2 demos - one had all classes and all weapons in it):

1. HeXen has more powerful weapons or the enemies are weaker, giving the impression that you can do REAL damage - powerful weapons is ALWAYS cooler than fucking pea-shooters. Plus the ultimate weapons in HeXen give the impression of being REALLY destructive weapons whereas the Hx2 ultimate weapons are just mediocre weapons.
2. The classes are more badass-looking in HeXen (the Fighter and the Mage at least - the HX2 Paladin looks pathetic compared to the fighter)
3. The monsters in HeXen are cooler and somehow have more character to them - what happened to the two-headed Ettins!?
4. The HeXen weapons look more badass - gimme a battle axe instead of that puny little vorpal sword.
5. Atmosphere, atmosphere and ...... atmosphere.
6. Did I mention atmosphere?
7. Movement is smoother in HeXen
8. The fighter's fists aren't as useless as the HeXen 2 Paladin's.

[Ichor]

9. Mapmaking with Hexen is a lot easier than with Hexen 2. You can make bigger maps, and with ACS scripting, you can control just about anything in the game. The only things Hexen 2 has that Hexen does not are:
1 - True 3D maps
2 - Slopes
3 - Tome of Power
4 - Four classes (five with Portal of Praevus) instead of three with Hexen