Video about states and DeHackEd and stuff

[borogk]

 

[P41R47]

Great vid, pal!

It practically explain how dehacked properly work :D

 

Thanks for this ;)

[Wavy]

Very good video. I love the polished editing you use and the way you explain the topics are clear and straight forward!

[Biz!]

High Quality Tutorial for something I already know

[borogk]

Thank you all for the feedback :)

[Omniarch]

Damn, the editing here really is top-notch! Your videos have a strong sense of slick professionalism about them, but without the soulless forced enthusiasm that often accompanies this style of smooth, high-quality presentation. Your scripts are matter-of-fact and entirely devoid of exaggeration, and yet covey a deep love for and appreciation of the art of mapping. As always, fantastic work borogk!

[borogk]

4 minutes ago, Omniarch said:

Damn, the editing here really is top-notch! Your videos have a strong sense of slick professionalism about them, but without the soulless forced enthusiasm that often accompanies this style of smooth, high-quality presentation. Your scripts are matter-of-fact and entirely devoid of exaggeration, and yet covey a deep love for and appreciation of the art of mapping. As always, fantastic work borogk!

I'm very flattered, thank you!

[Omniarch]

Two more things I found notable:

 

1) coming from someone who is fairly familar with dehacked modding, the particular way you used visuals to reinforce the state system was very clever, and must have been a massive pain to put together. Also, your use of in-engine 'sets' is inventive, distinctive and effective in equal measure, making every concept you bring up much easier to understand for a casual viewer.

 

2) I really appreciated the segment on actions, since, while I am familiar with the vanilla restrictions I did not know why this was the case. I think it is very cool that you chose to include a variety of information, making the video interesting for everyone, from laypeople to experts.

[borogk]

8 minutes ago, Omniarch said:

1) coming from someone who is fairly familar with dehacked modding, the particular way you used visuals to reinforce the state system was very clever, and must have been a massive pain to put together. Also, your use of in-engine 'sets' is inventive, distinctive and effective in equal measure, making every concept you bring up much easier to understand for a casual viewer.

Making frame indicator sprites and writing DECORATE definitions to sync them with states was probably the most mundane part. In hindsight, I could've automated this process, but instead most of it was made manually.

 

Drawing "set" maps, on the other hand, was the most fun part, it's where I have to restrain myself from spending too much time :)

 

Quote

2) I really appreciated the segment on actions, since, while I am familiar with the vanilla restrictions I did not know why this was the case. I think it is very cool that you chose to include a variety of information, making the video interesting for everyone, from laypeople to experts.

 

Prior to researching for the video, I didn't know the exact reason why these vanilla DEH restrictions exist either.

I reckon with some more work, it could've been possible to overcome these limitations even in DOS. If the source code would have never released and enough interest in DOOM community remained somehow - even more advanced DeHackEd program could've been created.

[1Destro3456]

I'm staring to watch the video and the editing is excellent, you got a lot of skill in that, honestly

[xX_Lol6_Xx]

This man is in Doomworld? How the hell did I not notice?

Awesome video BTW

[borogk]

2 minutes ago, Lol 6 said:

This man is in Doomworld? How the hell did I not notice?

Awesome video BTW

Thanks! I registered on DW only since I started putting put videos 3.5 months ago, easy to miss :)

[Doomkid]

Gotta say, I am in love with this presentation style. Moar!

[Smoothandz]

Now that's some high quality educational material right there. 

[PBeGood]

Hey! Amazing video. At 4:40 you show a list with all the states correctly indexed. Could I have access to it? Im making a wad and it would be a huge help.

[borogk]

52 minutes ago, PBeGood4 said:

Hey! Amazing video. At 4:40 you show a list with all the states correctly indexed. Could I have access to it? Im making a wad and it would be a huge help.

I can share the table later today (afk right now).

 

Though I don't see how it can help in making a WAD. The table contains byte offset values of states and relocation table in DOOM2.EXE and it is only really useful for editing the executable manually. It's not something one puts in a WAD, unlike a DeHackEd patch - which you can add :)

 

If you want a reference table of all action pointers for making DeHackEd patches, a Doom wiki article would be best: https://doomwiki.org/wiki/DeHackEd 

 

Also, WhackEd4 editor has great built in reference of what all the states are doing exactly.

[PBeGood]

Unfortunately I own a Mac. So no Whacked4 for me.

 

Im currently working with "bossaction" of UMAPINFO, but it only works if the "boss" has a BossDeath in one of its frames. So what Im doing is writing  FRAME 192 = BossDeath using a text edit (192 is one of the frames of ZombieMan's dying animation. Found it in your video). So that list would be very helpful in my case

 

What I care about is the index of the states, not the offset

[PBeGood]

Actually, just found this https://doomwiki.org/wiki/A_Fall.

 

I still think that the list is something important and, with your permission of course, I'd like to upload it to the idgames archive.

It might end up helping someone in the future.

[borogk]

8 hours ago, borogk said:

I can share the table later today (afk right now).

 

As promised, here's the list used in the video: https://docs.google.com/spreadsheets/d/1DUqfcUjz_zizOzCLSpc42VR8ItmwMtJ_r_fLE1MYO7c/edit?usp=sharing

It has 2 sheets - one for relocation table action pointers and one for the states table records.

 

Keep in mind, that it only contains offsets for DOOM2.EXE v1.9 (the same version is included in Doom II Steam release). Ultimate and Final Doom versions use other offsets. The list was only ever useful as a tool to create that one section in the video. Which brings me to...

 

5 hours ago, PBeGood4 said:

I still think that the list is something important and, with your permission of course, I'd like to upload it to the idgames archive.

It might end up helping someone in the future.

 

...I don't see a point. The list doesn't have a practical value. If someone wants to edit states in MS-DOS Doom, they're better off just using DeHackEd utility.

 

Offsets list only has a tiny bit of educational value (for learning DeHackEd and whatnot), but without context it isn't really helpful - there needs to be like an article about DHE or something like that.

 

So yeah, in my opinion uploading the list is pointless. This very comment is probably the most context it will ever have :)

 

8 hours ago, PBeGood4 said:

Unfortunately I own a Mac. So no Whacked4 for me.

 

Now, having a Whacked4 port for Mac - here is what would really be useful in situation like yours. Did you try running it using wine?

[xX_Lol6_Xx]

On 7/20/2021 at 7:11 AM, borogk said:

Making frame indicator sprites and writing DECORATE definitions to sync them with states was probably the most mundane part.

You used DECORATE? Lol, I didn't know that could be done, no surprise since I don't know how to mod, but still, nice use of the GZDoom features ;)

[PBeGood]

6 hours ago, borogk said:

 

As promised, here's the list used in the video: https://docs.google.com/spreadsheets/d/1DUqfcUjz_zizOzCLSpc42VR8ItmwMtJ_r_fLE1MYO7c/edit?usp=sharing

It has 2 sheets - one for relocation table action pointers and one for the states table records.

 

Keep in mind, that it only contains offsets for DOOM2.EXE v1.9 (the same version is included in Doom II Steam release). Ultimate and Final Doom versions use other offsets. The list was only ever useful as a tool to create that one section in the video. Which brings me to...

 

 

...I don't see a point. The list doesn't have a practical value. If someone wants to edit states in MS-DOS Doom, they're better off just using DeHackEd utility.

 

Offsets list only has a tiny bit of educational value (for learning DeHackEd and whatnot), but without context it isn't really helpful - there needs to be like an article about DHE or something like that.

 

So yeah, in my opinion uploading the list is pointless. This very comment is probably the most context it will ever have :)

 

 

Now, having a Whacked4 port for Mac - here is what would really be useful in situation like yours. Did you try running it using wine?

Wine for m1 macs sucks and is paid. Whacked was made with Python and a crossplatform gui library (wxpython), so it shpuld be possible to port it for mac. Maybe ill try someday

 

You know much more about this than me so if you say that its useless, then I wont upload it.

 

Thanks for your time anyway.

and keep making awesome videos :P