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Koko Ricky

Doom Eternal: End of an era?

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Posted (edited)

We can regard the Doom franchise as having three distinct eras:

 

· The classic era, which includes Doom, Doom 2, Final Doom, and Doom 64. These titles are marked by a sprite-oriented, limited 3D engine. Art direction is a hodge-podge of styles that work together to create a detailed, albeit slightly cartoonish aesthetic. Level layouts favor non-linear, exploratory environments that are largely abstract and contrast bright, open areas with dark, narrow passages. Mechanics are very tight, fast and straightforward, borrowing heavily from run-and-gun platformers.

 

· The experimental era, which includes Doom 3 and the expansion pack, Resurrection of Evil. These titles are marked by use of a fully 3D engine with dynamic lighting and physics. Art direction is grounded, mature, high-tech and emphasizes the potential of realtime light and shadow as a means of establishing mood. Level layouts are generally linear and self-similar, emphasizing realism over the flow of movement. Mechanics are mostly straightforward, if not sluggish, but include clever environmental interaction, particularly in regard to the computers.

 

· The modern era, which includes the 2016 reboot, Doom, and its sequel, Doom Eternal. These titles are marked by extremely detailed, powerful engines that focus on surface detail, dynamic light and shadow, and an intricate gore system (particularly in regards to Eternal). Art direction finds a wedge between older and newer styles, with Eternal pushing for a more lighthearted tone while maintaining mature themes. Level layouts are generally linear, often locking the player in a series of exploratory arenas as a means of progression. Mechanics are extremely tight and fast, with Eternal in particular pushing for complex 3D movement.

 

It would seem, then, that the next title in the series will likely mark a new direction in all the aspects covered here. If you've played Eternal's DLC, it's clear they can't reasonably push their design philosophy any further. It's fun, but cramped and overly dependent on combat over exploration. It's a blast to experience and replayable, sure, but the IP needs a change of pace. I wonder what it will be. 

Edited by Koko Ricky

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The last two games were huge critical and commercial successes. Why would the next game be in a different style? I know the devs said the "story" is "over" after the DLCs but they also said that the game would have an Invasion mode and no microtransactions so their word doesn't mean much to me.

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5 minutes ago, ICID said:

The last two games were huge critical and commercial successes. Why would the next game be in a different style? I know the devs said the "story" is "over" after the DLCs but they also said that the game would have an Invasion mode and no microtransactions so their word doesn't mean much to me.

They've said that it's the end of this particular arc. To me, that indicates that they're far from done with this series.

 

Also, I remember Hugo saying that Eternal isn't their "best DOOM game yet" or something along those lines.

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Posted (edited)

Mmh. The fact that Doom have had several eras doesn't necessarily mean that there will be another. Also, this "third era" was supposed to be a reborn that takes into consideration more elements from classic Doom, because Doom 3 was too "dark" for the saga. I think that there will be another era if there would be several things to correct in regard with the last Dooms. I personally doubt that they'll change the tone of the game.

Edited by Martin-CAI

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Posted (edited)

I thought they still had plans for expansions with different characters but i guess with how things are going (as in, Invasion being dropped for Horde mode), i assume that was dropped or not even considered that much.

Even if there is a new "era", i can still see it with some influences from the modern games.

 

Doom having occasional reboots or going in a direction similar to what, Zelda, Megaman, Twisted Metal (if those examples are even fitting), may not be a bad thing and almost feel like a comic book franchise in a way.

As long as the new games are still good and there's still something recognizable.

I repeat this a lot of this and sometimes i wonder if i even want Doom to end.

Like, nobody wants a milked series but with the right times and ideas, it's nice to see Doom in a spotlight.

 

The current iteration of Doom can also be an arguement of how a franchise revival can be good while also having a lot of differences from the originals.

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Posted (edited)

Doom will end someday, just like everything else.

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I can see Doom being shelved at some point, but it is a good source of revenue so I doubt it will disappear.

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2 hours ago, ICID said:

The last two games were huge critical and commercial successes. Why would the next game be in a different style?

 

I mean... you could have said the same thing following the releases, and critical and commercial successes of Doom, Doom II, Ultimate Doom and Final Doom. We still got Doom 3. 

 

Hugo has mentioned several times now that they (id, as a studio) have no intention of recreating the same game over and over. They want to try something different, break new ground or explore new gameplay with each release. I get the sense that they'll still be in the "fun zone" state of mind moving forward, but I'm sure the nature of that fun zone will change. 

 

I'm excited to see what they do next. Whatever it is, I'm sure I'll enjoy playing it.  

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Posted (edited)

I would be interested in a proper sequel to Doom 3. By which I mean, a slower-paced game with a greater emphasis on horror and atmosphere, but hopefully without the shortcomings of its predecessor.

 

Or maybe a Metroidvania in the style of Metroid Prime?

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On 7/23/2021 at 4:04 PM, Rudolph said:

I would be interested in a proper sequel to Doom 3. By which I mean, a slower-paced game with a greater emphasis on horror and atmosphere, but hopefully without the shortcomings of its predecessor.

 

Or maybe a Metroidvania in the style of Metroid Prime?

 

I hope it will not end as a Hexen 2 with Doom Sprites  :)

 

But would be some possible Evolution of Doom 3.

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On 7/22/2021 at 4:03 PM, Gore said:

Doom will end someday, just like everything else.

 

Incorrect. Doom is eternal.

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I always thought a Doom 3:2 would have been like Hideous Destructor X the cancelled Doom 4 but in a way that's still interesting and mechanically deep and fun, while also still fitting the series while somehow being an opposite to Eternal. (you're not the Slayer, you're an even more Doomed space/Earth marine)

 

I also think an underrated category of Doom fanart is fanmade redesigns and interpretations of enemies, Doomguy and Doom related stuff.

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21 minutes ago, Azuris said:

I hope it will not end as a Hexen 2 with Doom Sprites  :)

I never played Hexen 2, so I am not sure I understand what you are saying here.

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Posted (edited)

The new era of DOOM...Doom Forever.  Comes out Holiday Season 2024 2025 2026 2027 2038  when it's done.

 

Serious note...maybe they'll re-explore some of the thematic elements that were initially intended for "Doom 4."  I thought some of the stuff seen in those early videos looked interesting.

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I would personally like to see a sequel that combines all the darkest elements of Doom 3, PS1 Doom, and Doom 64. Those entries dialed in the combat a bit, and really doubled down on horror. I especially miss the interactive computers and physics puzzles in Doom 3, which were unique for the time and still stand out today as interesting gameplay elements. I also felt Doom 3 handled the potential of moody lighting really well. Enemies would have shadows draped over them as they emerged from the darkness, and this is contrast to Doom Eternal, where the "fake" spotlights emitting from entities makes them stand out a bit too much, especially in dark areas. I would really like to see id get away from that, and embrace the possibilities of more realistic lighting.

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What i like about some 64/3 designs is that they felt a bit more experimental/weirder in some areas.

It's obviously because of horror but i also assume there's a lot going on with Eternal's gameplay that could affect the actual designs of demons you fight.

So a floating monster with 2 mouths or a tv screen for a mouth may not work.

 

Makes me wonder if there ever being another turn based Doom game (RPG series) could lead to another period of creative designs.

Because sometimes, i wonder why some JRPG franchises can have really neat demon/monsters design has to do with the turn based gameplay allowing a better space for those designs. (besides how Japan views religious references and all that, compared to Western devs)

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I don't quite think we're done with this "era" of Doom just yet, but I do suspect any next entry in the series is going to harken back to 2016 a little more. Eternal's story is currently a bit of a mess, and ended up writing itself into a corner. Gameplay was awesome, but I do echo a lot of the sentiments here hoping for a return to the darker elements of 64 and 3. 

 

That said; I have a suspicion that it will be a while before we see something new. Part of me wants to bet on the notion that iD's going to try something new next, or if not brand new then outright Heretic/ Hexen. A lot Eternal and TAG 1 and 2 kind of make it clear that they are keen on fantasy at least, so it wouldn't be a huge stretch. 

 

 

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Posted (edited)

There will be another main line doom game.  Microsoft bought Doom, wouldn't they want more Doom games?  Then again they also bought Minecraft and we are still waiting on Minecraft 2 ...

 

I bet they are doing a spin off of some sort right now.  Maybe a prequel to before the slayer meets the night sentinels.  Something Coop with modding or level building?  Either way it may be made by a different studio with Id's oversight.  Who knows. 

 

There is evidence we might see a Doomgirl as a hero to a new Lovecraftian-Quake game.  This has been also hinted by Hugo with his desire to visit Cthulhu hell. 

 

Probably a couple years out before they announce anything.   I can't wait for the hype to return.

 

 

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Posted (edited)

By Doom Eternal DLC 2 you see all of the game mechanics and enemy types. They could create more content, new levels and demons and probably more meat hook puzzles / areas or they can go a different direction.

 

My guess is that they will change direction but keep the core mechanics such as some form of glory kills, similar shooting and some side abilities (grenades, hammer, crucible etc). While I doubt this will happen, I see an opportunity for them to change to a new IP or more likely same world but steer away from Doom guy and have optional classes. Speedy and agile characters that can double jump, do something similar to meat hook, wall running etc. And heavies with big ground pounding attacks that stuns enemies etc. Each class acquiring certain pickups / kill bonuses their own way.

 

What I'm describing seems more suited for a new IP though. Hell, even a Quake reboot. Or Hexen.

 

But I still remember what Hugo said in one of his steams "The next game I'm thinking of being more of a monster truck rather than a Ferrari" (implying Eternal is the latter).

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My problem with assuming we will see another era for the next game is that the true thing dividing the eras you outlined is time between them, not number of games. It splits into 90s, 00s, and 10s (possibly even 20s). With these decades passed comes decades of advancements in computing which prompt those changes in direction. If the new Doom is to come out any time soon, even as late as 2025, there is no reason to assume it will be part of a different "era".

Unless of course Eternal is the last for the decade, then it might be a new era.

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I was thinking about how RPG's and such have elements play into enemies and wondered if that could ever work in Doom:

Fire enemy: flame belch buffs their speed but ice bomb makes them recieve more damage.

Ice enemy: ice bomb shields them but flame belch actively damages them through time as if they're melting.

 

Also, with the Maykr archangels and those cross shaped ships from Immora, i still hope cross shaped enemies are a thing.

Almost like Doom's equivalent of those cross balance enemies in some Persona games.

But with a Doom look to it, like a cross being made of flesh, tech or even old rocky bricks, like they're made of similar materials as certain level areas or textures.

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It's one of those games where a decade-long rest between each iteration keeps it fresh and fun.

 

We don't need yearly release cycles for doom games until it's beaten to a bloody pulp and becomes same thing over and over. That's what kills so many game franchises these days. "Too much of a good thing"-sort of outcome.

 

All fine with it taking a backseat for another decade for the next set of fresh minds to come and give it their touch of magic, as that's how it's been handled thus far and this approach has worked very well.

 

 

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Doom as franchise should be like wine. Once in a decade you take it from the shelf, pour 1-2 glasses and put it back for another decade.

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Might not be a fitting thread for this but someone made a video about how the Harvester from 2016's MP could return in Eternal.

One thing he mentions is how the upcoming Horde Mode potentially rewarding players for conserving BFG ammo inspired him to think of the Harvester "harvesting" BFG ammo/projectiles and using it against the player.

It's the kind of stuff that means there's still some room for new ideas on this formula.

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