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Dusty_Rhodes

What are some sleeper wads?

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I reject the idea that there are any WADs that everyone should play.  Not least because I am not a fan of many of the WADs mentioned in the OP.

 

I do however think that a conversation about great but less highly touted WADs is definitely a good idea.  Someone has already mentioned Unholy Realms, so I'll throw a couple of Steve D joints into the mix: both Abcess (sic) and Shotgun Symphony are well worth a look.

 

(the latter actually won a Cacoward ... but I rarely if ever see anyone talking about it)

Edited by Capellan

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That's right! Steve D also contributed to the very first megawad created by members of the Doom Mac community that came out the same time as MM2 and is called Realms of Chaos, a project that sort of gets swept under the rug due to all the other stuff at the time.

 

I would definitely suggest looking at HYMN if you're at all into Heretic wads. Practically every map is wonderfully crafted though beware, Xaser's map is determined to break your spirit. Don't play with fast monsters; that would be an awful idea.

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53 minutes ago, LadyMistDragon said:

Steve D also contributed to the very first megawad created by members of the Doom Mac community that came out the same time as MM2 and is called Realms of Chaos.

 

It is actually Realm of Chaos, singular.  Steve gets sad-faced when people call it "Realms".  Which is perhaps the best reason to do so :D

 

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I consider Good Morning Phobos to be a sleeper wad. It's pretty damn good, came out in 2017 where a lot of wads at that time (at least imo) were more TNT inspired via having pretty big maps with places to explore minus the boring gameplay in exchange for better combat. However, I wouldn't binge this all in one go since the maps are pretty lengthy.

 

If you're down for a more spooky wad this october I would refer you to MAYhem 2019, 19 chilling levels made with textures from Blood, revamped enemies that'll surely leave you pale from fear, but also arm you w/ suped up weapons to combat these frightening forces.

 

Last but not least, I'd vouch for Mass Extinction, haven't played it yet, but looks promising.

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2 hours ago, Capellan said:

I reject the idea that there are any WADs that everyone should play.  Not least because I am not a fan of many of the WADs mentioned in the OP.

 

I do however think that a conversation about great but less highly touted WADs is definitely a good idea. 

Glad you like the topic. However, what wads do you enjoy?

 

I was attempting to make a crowd pleaser list. Those are the wads I (generally) see talked about positively most on Doomworld. Honestly just curious. :D

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16 minutes ago, Dusty_Rhodes said:

Glad you like the topic. However, what wads do you enjoy?

 

Honestly, my knowledge of Doom(2) WADs is nowhere near as vast as that of more dedicated players, so my list of specific recommendations isn't going to be terribly extensive or interesting.  In general, though, I prefer projects which:

1. are less than 50% comprised of big maps

2. feature a general but not completely regular escalation of challenge

3. aren't slaughter or puzzle focused 

4. have maps that feature organic gameplay which ebbs and flows in unpredictable ways.  A map of nothing but set pieces bores me.

 

That said, I appreciate that others like the things I don't, and am happy that stuff gets made for them to play.

 

I did just remember that I should mention Mapgame, as a D1 episode with some very good techbase maps in it.

 

 

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On 9/14/2021 at 6:53 AM, VoanHead said:

I consider Good Morning Phobos to be a sleeper wad. It's pretty damn good, came out in 2017 where a lot of wads at that time (at least imo) were more TNT inspired via having pretty big maps with places to explore minus the boring gameplay in exchange for better combat. However, I wouldn't binge this all in one go since the maps are pretty lengthy.

 

If you're down for a more spooky wad this october I would refer you to MAYhem 2019, 19 chilling levels made with textures from Blood, revamped enemies that'll surely leave you pale from fear, but also arm you w/ suped up weapons to combat these frightening forces.

 

Last but not least, I'd vouch for Mass Extinction, haven't played it yet, but looks promising.

Thank you very much for suggesting Mass Exinction! I played a few maps, they have a cozy Doom1-2 inspired style. Exactly what I was looking for!

 

On 9/14/2021 at 7:53 AM, Capellan said:

Honestly, my knowledge of Doom(2) WADs is nowhere near as vast as that of more dedicated players, so my list of specific recommendations isn't going to be terribly extensive or interesting.  In general, though, I prefer projects which:

1. are less than 50% comprised of big maps

2. feature a general but not completely regular escalation of challenge

3. aren't slaughter or puzzle focused 

4. have maps that feature organic gameplay which ebbs and flows in unpredictable ways.  A map of nothing but set pieces bores me.

IMHO, maps 01-08 of 180 Minutes Pour Vivre fit those points very well. Starting around maps 10-11, 180 mpv ramps things up, but the first few maps are on the shorter side. Difficulty-wise, first maps of 180mpv can be hard sometimes, but even on UV maps 01-08 of 180 mpv do not get harder than Plutonia maps with simialr numbers. And they are much cooler visually than their Plutonia counterparts.

 

Semi-offtopic about Struggle - Antaresian Legacy.

Spoiler
Quote

There's also Struggle, but the fact it's by a single author probably will start to showt (I still need to play that one, lol).

IMHO, the best way to play Struggle is to combine it with some other WAD. Like play map of Struggle - play something else - play another map or two of Struggle - etc. The Antares signature style of "Plentiful Exploration/Intense Combat" can get pretty overhelming, especially when you are not familiar with changes in weapons and monsters. (I swear, those Revenants are exactly as nasty as Plutonia ones, despite lacking the homing missiles.) Also, I suggest to abbandon the idea of finding all the secrets on the first playthrough. Some of them are really, really secretive. Come to think of it, it might be a good idea to attempt the first playthrough of Struggle on lowered difficulty setting, and only to switch to your preffered difficulty when you are feel comfotable enough... Struggle maps are pretty fun to replay.

 

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Spire by Foodles (zDoom)

Pretty cool five level hub for zDoom. It's got some of the extra stuff one would expect from a set of levels for this sourceport, such as custom monsters, but otherwise keeps the zDoom-isms to a minimum. Foodles is a pretty amazing mapper in general, imo. His megawad Estranged also comes highly recommended.

 

5 years by Shadowman (limit removing ports)

A minisode consisting of three beautifully crafted maps. I find that the visuals(first level in peticular) to match the current fall season quite well. A good deal more smaller-scale and less action packed than the usual DOOM fare. Good choice if you just want to take in something nice and pleasant.

 

TTV!Zone Collection 1 by various authors (zDoom or Zandronum)

Here we have a collection of speedmaps from some of the hottest mappers around(Alfonzo, Rottking, Tarnsman, Jimmy, Skillsaw, etc.). There is a good deal of variety presented here and of course, as standard for lots of speedmapping sessions, some silly gimmick themes the authors had to adhere to. All in all a very good time.

 

ZPack - Random Maps for ZDoom by various authors

I think this megawad deserves a mention in this thread, not necessarily because I believe it to be unknown, but more because I assume that people are hesitant to give it a shot due to the somewhat lousy reputation it has. Although sometimes janky or downright tedious there still is plenty of unique and fun stuff in here worth seeking out. I wouldn't be surprised if people's favorites from this wad vary wildly from person to person. My personal standout pick would be the boss encounter in episode 2.

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2 minutes ago, DrRock said:

Spire by Foodles (zDoom)

Pretty cool five level hub for zDoom. It's got some of the extra stuff one would expect from a set of levels for this sourceport, such as custom monsters, but otherwise keeps the zDoom-isms to a minimum. Foodles is a pretty amazing mapper in general, imo. His megawad Estranged also comes highly recommended.

 

5 years by Shadowman (limit removing ports)

A minisode consisting of three beautifully crafted maps. I find that the visuals(first level in peticular) to match the current fall season quite well. A good deal more smaller-scale and less action packed than the usual DOOM fare. Good choice if you just want to take in something nice and pleasant.

 

TTV!Zone Collection 1 by various authors (zDoom or Zandronum)

Here we have a collection of speedmaps from some of the hottest mappers around(Alfonzo, Rottking, Tarnsman, Jimmy, Skillsaw, etc.). There is a good deal of variety presented here and of course, as standard for lots of speedmapping sessions, some silly gimmick themes the authors had to adhere to. All in all a very good time.

 

ZPack - Random Maps for ZDoom by various authors

I think this megawad deserves a mention in this thread, not necessarily because I believe it to be unknown, but more because I assume that people are hesitant to give it a shot due to the somewhat lousy reputation it has. Although sometimes janky or downright tedious there still is plenty of unique and fun stuff in here worth seeking out. I wouldn't be surprised if people's favorites from this wad vary wildly from person to person. My personal standout pick would be the boss encounter in episode 2.

These sound great. I've never heard of them but that's a good sign.

 

:D

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Mass Extinction is good so far, but the soundtrack is so random. It is not bad, but so far it does not fit the mood of levels, let alone Doom. I had to load a music replacement pack, because that cheery piano music in MAP02 was really starting to get on my nerves. :S

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44 minutes ago, Rudolph said:

Mass Extinction is good so far, but the soundtrack is so random. It is not bad, but so far it does not fit the mood of levels, let alone Doom. I had to load a music replacement pack, because that cheery piano music in MAP02 was really starting to get on my nerves. :S

Oh lol. Some older wads had strange music choices for sure.

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27 minutes ago, Dusty_Rhodes said:

Oh lol. Some older wads had strange music choices for sure.

Except Mass Extinction came out in 2019! :P

 

Since I do not have a "Doom 1 music in Doom 2" music pack at hand, I am currently playing with Jimmy's Plutonia MIDI Pack. It still does not always fit, but it sure beats the collection of random MIDI song covers.

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1 hour ago, Rudolph said:

Except Mass Extinction came out in 2019! :P

 

Since I do not have a "Doom 1 music in Doom 2" music pack at hand, I am currently playing with Jimmy's Plutonia MIDI Pack. It still does not always fit, but it sure beats the collection of random MIDI song covers.

Oh my mistake! Yeah weird, nothing beats Jimmy's midis, so you made a good choice.

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Hey, I forgot about Akeldama. I will edit my post to restore order in the universe :-)

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Bloodstain, it should sit among the greats like Alien Vendetta and Scythe 2

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5 hours ago, DOEL said:

Bloodstain, it should sit among the greats like Alien Vendetta and Scythe 2

Never heard of it, I'll definitely have to check it out

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On 9/17/2021 at 6:56 PM, Dusty_Rhodes said:

Oh my mistake! Yeah weird, nothing beats Jimmy's midis, so you made a good choice.

After some experimentation (and some weird glitch with SLADE), I decided to replace the soundtrack with Vile Flesh's instead.

 

Speaking of Vile Flesh, I am 17 maps in and it is still great! The only sort-of issues I have with it are that it is visually a bit bland and that MAP32 is apparently impossible to 100% because of its separate deathmatch area.

Edited by Rudolph

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1 hour ago, Rudolph said:

After some experimentation (and some weird glitch with SLADE), I decided to replace the soundtrack with Vile Flesh's instead.

 

Speaking of Vile Flesh, I am 17 maps in and it is still great! The only sort-of issues I have with it are that it is visually a bit bland and that MAP32 is apparently impossible to 100% because of its separate deathmatch area.

Well I'm sold. I'll need to play Vile Flesh this week.

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Hmmm, is it me or the Megaarmor secret in Vile Flesh's MAP17 has a game-breaking bug? 

 

Spoiler

If I am not fast enough to press the skull switch and run to the newly-opened teleporter before the metal pillar rises again, I appear to be stuck and have no choice but noclip my way out.

 

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1 minute ago, Rudolph said:

Hmmm, is it me or the Megaarmor secret in Vile Flesh's MAP17 has a game-breaking bug? 

 

  Hide contents

If I am not fast enough to press the skull switch and run to the newly-opened teleporter before the metal pillar rises again, I appear to be stuck and have no choice but noclip my way out.

 

I have no idea

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6 minutes ago, Dusty_Rhodes said:

I have no idea

Well, obviously, I was not asking you, since you have established that you have yet to play Vile Flesh. ;)

 

I guess I should create a separate topic for my question.

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1 minute ago, Rudolph said:

Well, obviously, I was not asking you, since you have established that you have yet to play Vile Flesh. ;)

 

I guess I should create a separate topic for my question.

Yeah sorry haha

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I have started playing Bloodstain. So far, it is good, but I have yet to run into the custom monsters, so I do not know if I will keep enjoying the mapset once I do. Eviternity, for instance, started losing me the moment it started throwing Cybruisers at me...

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Okay, so Bloodstain features altered Baron of Hell sprites that look pretty bad (so much so that at first I thought it was a color palette issue), but when I tried to delete the custom sprites, it caused the vanilla Baron of Hell to be missing a sprite frame during its attack animation. Also, for some reason, the custom sprites and textures all appear as low-resolution and black and white in SLADE. :o

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Bloodstain barons have a changed attack. They shoot twice, launching a projectile with each arm, while Doom 2 barons shoot only once. So original baron sprites would not work as a replacement. Maybe Pyro-knights from Valiant could work.

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1 hour ago, Azure_Horror said:

Bloodstain barons have a changed attack. They shoot twice, launching a projectile with each arm, while Doom 2 barons shoot only once. So original baron sprites would not work as a replacement. Maybe Pyro-knights from Valiant could work.

Oooh, I did not notice that! It makes sense.

 

Thank you!

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I usually can't stand custom monsters like Valiant and Eviternity but Bloodstain does them well I think

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A heap of dope recommendations in this thread, added some slick stuff to the ever-growing backlog for sure! Haha!

 

For Doom, the Return to Hadron series (and spiritual fourth episode) are great fun! On the Doom 2 front, ArrivalDemonic DeviationHell for Leather and the up-coming Hell on Earth Shareware mini-sode (dunno if it counts as it technically ain't out yet! Hahaha!) are very solid picks!

 

Pretty sure these haven't been mentioned (at least in this thread!) so far. All vanilla style goodness too, so smash thru 'em with some mods on the second and third go around! :)

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16 hours ago, DOEL said:

I usually can't stand custom monsters like Valiant and Eviternity but Bloodstain does them well I think

Can I ask why?

 

Personally, I like wads with some new monsters, to help keep things a bit fresh.

 

I think if they add a bit of a new dynamic but still feel they fit in, it adds to the enjoyment. E.g. the Astral Cacodaemon in Eviternity didn't break any amazing new ground. But it gave a flying monster a great twist by now making them fast and deadly a close range.

 

(PS. Interesting thought. Imagine we'd never had Doom 2. Someone made a wad and invents the Arch Vile. What would the reaction be?)

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