Whats the best Heretic/Hexen-based DOOM wad?

[i suck at nicknames]

Ive played a shitton of DOOM wads now, and I'm curious to play Heretic...though I kinda dislike the whole inventory system/flying mechanic/etc and most of what the Raven software mechanics have to offer. So are there any DOOM wads which use Heretic textures/monsters/weapons/etc but is functionally Doom?  

 

(Hell, I wouldn't mind just a full Heretic wad but without the Raven mechanics and stuff lol)

[Luleta]

ow, but the raven mechanics make the game interesting and different from doom, at that point id suggest you just play doom.

i used to have this same mindset, until i got comfortable binds for the inventory and flying.

the first episode of unbeliever is quite gimmicky and showcases a bunch of interesting stuff that's possible only with heretic's unique gadgets.

sorry that's not exactly what you are looking for (literally the opposite in fact), but i just felt the need to share my point of view.

[Not Jabba]

Heretic can be a really neat game, but admittedly is a taste that's best acquired over time, since it gets better as you become more familiar and comfortable with the various inventory items, Tomed weapons, and other mechanics and the best situations to use everything. If you're interested in playing things gradually and going from easy to hard, I put together a list here that could help. Additionally, playing with Wayfarer's Tome tends to make most maps feel a bit more accessible/comfortable because the weapons are more powerful, so you don't need to fall back on items as much and you can cut through tight spots or hordes faster.

 

I'll try to answer your actual question, though. If you haven't already, definitely play Rekkr, which is a standalone Doom-engine game -- basically like if someone had made a fantasy Doom clone like Heretic back in the '90s but it only had Doom mechanics instead of inventory and stuff. If you want Doom with a medieval fantasy setting, try the following:

Legacy of Heroes
Dark Tide

(also Eternal Doom, but that's also an acquired taste and you've probably heard of it before)

 

If you really want Doom with Heretic monsters in it, the only thing I can think of is the Herian series. They're very much a product of their time, but if you're into that late '90s style of design, you might enjoy them.

[Shepardus]

There's Heretic Invades Doom, a pair of MBF21 maps that contains a mixture of Doom and Heretic enemies and weapons:

 

[Doomenator]

 

[Catoptromancy]

Try Heretic on -skill 5. Faster projectiles makes up for no hitscanners, and more ammo means you can use stronger weapons more often. The inventory system is not optional much more often in -skill 5. 

[kalensar]

Heres a gameplay mod I made that is for both Heretic and Doom2, 2 different pk3s in the zip. Heretic Heroes: NES Heroes and Hexes. Its definitely not a true Heretic style but it uses a lot of Heretic and Hexen monsters plus many more in a randomizer fashion. It doesn't use the Tomb of Power mechanic but it does the healing items and flying and a few others.

 

Its probably the most intense mechanics mod I made because its supposed to mirror old NES characters from both Platformers and RPGs. I'll post the download link and the Doom 2 demo video I made for you to decide if you want to try it.

 

https://www.moddb.com/mods/heretic-heroes-nes-heroes-and-hexes/downloads/heretic-heroes-for-doom-and-hereticrebalanced

 

 

[Captain POLAND]

I never played the extra episodes of Heretic although I want to. I can't find them anywhere though.

 

 

[Gez]

2 hours ago, Captain POLAND said:

I never played the extra episodes of Heretic although I want to. I can't find them anywhere though.

Do you mean the Shadow of the Serpent Riders episodes? They're part of the game, like Thy Flesh Consumed is part of Doom. If you have Heretic on Steam or GOG, they're already in. If you have Heretic on an old retail version CD, they're also already in. If you only have Heretic on some old registered floppies, then you need to get the 1.3 patch. You can use this: https://github.com/petervas/iwadpatcher

[i suck at nicknames]

8 hours ago, Luleta said:

ow, but the raven mechanics make the game interesting and different from doom, at that point id suggest you just play doom.

i used to have this same mindset, until i got comfortable binds for the inventory and flying.

the first episode of unbeliever is quite gimmicky and showcases a bunch of interesting stuff that's possible only with heretic's unique gadgets.

sorry that's not exactly what you are looking for (literally the opposite in fact), but i just felt the need to share my point of view.

Its fine, thaks for sharing your thoughts :) 

 

I did try playing the first episode of heretic, but the mechanics for tomes and flying and invulnerability and all are just annoying, especially when you have to use it as inventory....call me a filthy doomer purist or whatever, but if they were used the same way as Doom powerups, I think I wouldn't have minded as much, but having the game lean on the "you have to use this when the time is right" thing does kinda become annoying when it tends to halt your progression thru a level when there's no sure way to tell the player where to go and how (esp when trying to find secrets), and when you can simply use it as a sort of crutch to get thru the harder fights, which I think kinda takes away from the challenge aspect of everything. 

 

Again, this is just me and I know Im not speaking for everyone at all, but that's just how I feel. 

[i suck at nicknames]

6 hours ago, Not Jabba said:

Heretic can be a really neat game, but admittedly is a taste that's best acquired over time, since it gets better as you become more familiar and comfortable with the various inventory items, Tomed weapons, and other mechanics and the best situations to use everything. If you're interested in playing things gradually and going from easy to hard, I put together a list here that could help. Additionally, playing with Wayfarer's Tome tends to make most maps feel a bit more accessible/comfortable because the weapons are more powerful, so you don't need to fall back on items as much and you can cut through tight spots or hordes faster.

 

I'll try to answer your actual question, though. If you haven't already, definitely play Rekkr, which is a standalone Doom-engine game -- basically like if someone had made a fantasy Doom clone like Heretic back in the '90s but it only had Doom mechanics instead of inventory and stuff. If you want Doom with a medieval fantasy setting, try the following:

Legacy of Heroes
Dark Tide

(also Eternal Doom, but that's also an acquired taste and you've probably heard of it before)

 

If you really want Doom with Heretic monsters in it, the only thing I can think of is the Herian series. They're very much a product of their time, but if you're into that late '90s style of design, you might enjoy them.

Thanks for the reccs, I'll definitely try them out :>

[i suck at nicknames]

5 hours ago, Shepardus said:

There's Heretic Invades Doom, a pair of MBF21 maps that contains a mixture of Doom and Heretic enemies and weapons:

 

This looks pretty neat. Not exactly what Im looking for admittedly, but Ill definitely try this out too :>

Thanks :)

[Karl515]

9 hours ago, i suck at nicknames said:

So are there any DOOM wads which use Heretic textures/monsters/weapons/etc but is functionally Doom? 

This is pretty much what you're looking for and combined with this texture pack you can pretty much disguise any doom map that uses vanilla textures into something that looks and plays like Heretic, just not without its quirks and stuff.

[SilverMiner]

Herian 2

[ReaperAA]

1 hour ago, i suck at nicknames said:

I did try playing the first episode of heretic, but the mechanics for tomes and flying and invulnerability and all are just annoying, especially when you have to use it as inventory....call me a filthy doomer purist or whatever, but if they were used the same way as Doom powerups, I think I wouldn't have minded as much, but having the game lean on the "you have to use this when the time is right" thing does kinda become annoying when it tends to halt your progression thru a level when there's no sure way to tell the player where to go and how (esp when trying to find secrets), and when you can simply use it as a sort of crutch to get thru the harder fights, which I think kinda takes away from the challenge aspect of everything. 

 

To be fair, vanilla Heretic's E1-E3 are kind of like vanilla Doom's E1-E3. The maps are laid back to a point where you don't even have to be so strict about when to use inventory items or not (only on skill 5 or in E4-E5 is when you have to be cautious)

 

And to be honest, I actually like the inventory aspect of Heretic and it is the one aspect that makes Heretic unique from Doom. You can use powerup whenever you feel like. Not forced to use it when you don't want to. I have inventory left/right selection set to R and F and inventory use set to Q. This makes it easy for me (a WASD user) to cycle through and use inventory items. I tend to mostly activate inventory item whenever I get into a hairy situation, or I want to conserve ammo.

[Not Jabba]

Changing the key bindings to something more comfortable is definitely important. I have my mouse wheel set to scroll through inventory instead of weapons, and one of the side mouse buttons is bound as select/use inventory.

[Uni]

It might not be as cool or as competent as what Not Jabba researched and linked, but honestly if you're looking for a more "classic" experience of Heretic, I think you should give The Master's Domain a try. It's a little on the older side but I find the maps to be surprisingly interesting and fun and quite impressive for the time.

[Luleta]

6 hours ago, ReaperAA said:

Not forced to use it when you don't want to. I have inventory left/right selection set to R and F and inventory use set to Q. This makes it easy for me (a WASD user) to cycle through and use inventory items. I tend to mostly activate inventory item whenever I get into a hairy situation, or I want to conserve ammo.

i remember when i wanted to get into heretic i even asked on the speedrunning discord for bindings haha, got v for fly up, c for fly down, x stop flying and mice buttons for inventory.

coming form the simplicity of doom, having to worry about those new bindings can be annoying, but after u get a comfy set up, it really enhances the experience.

 

8 hours ago, i suck at nicknames said:

"you have to use this when the time is right" thing does kinda become annoying when it tends to halt your progression thru a level when there's no sure way to tell the player where to go and how (esp when trying to find secrets), and when you can simply use it as a sort of crutch to get thru the harder fights, which I think kinda takes away from the challenge aspect of everything. 

eh... inventory usage isnt really thaaat strict, its really just something else to play around with. im not suuuper experienced with heretic wads tho.

u could argue the same happens on doom, minus the inventory. i found myself in several situations where there's an invul and i dont know if i should take it at the moment or save it for a different fight, heretic allows me to not have to go back and grab that powerup and just use it whenever i deem it necessary on the fly (sometimes literally :^) ). i feel like u can be quite lenient with powerup ussage.

i'd say... give it a try with comfortable bindings, try to push through and get a feel for it, and you'll find its not as overwhealming as it may seem.

in the end, you dont NEED to like it, but i feel like not taking advantage of a game's unique gadget misses the point.

[eharper256]

Not what you're looking for, as such, but I make a mod, Walpurgis that allows you to play Doom, Heretic, and Hexen maps with a customised arsenal that takes the spirit of Hexen and infuses it with a powerful modern flavour in the same way Heretical does for Heretic's arsenal.

Still have inventory though. XD As others have said, inventory is easier if you use Q for items. Walpurgis also has hotkeys for the most important ones.