More on my new megawad (3.5 levels done so far)

[netnomad312]

For those of you who looked at my earlier thread, you know which wad I'm talking about: my megawad titled "Tower of WAR."

================================
The story (it's still sketchy): You aren't the same guy who saved Earth from the hellspawn - that was your father. Everyone urged you to follow in his footsteps and work for the UAC, so you did. That is, until you noticed some pretty questionable stuff going on. Rumor has it that in the bowels of the UAC they were building machines. Strange and evil ones, the most dangerous of which is an exact replica of the Cyberdemon your father encountered on several occasions. You don't have any idea what they want with a Cyberdemon, but you don't like it. Upon asking your boss (who of course is none other than the president of UAC; you hold a very high rank thanks to your family name) what it all meant, he laughed and told you to think nothing of it. "How do you like our new name, by the way?" he says to you, changing the subject. "Worldwide Aerospace Research corp. - A.K.A. WAR corp."

"I don't like it at all," you say, "and this is just proof that your little experiments have gone way too far."

"I'm telling you," he says, all humor gone from his voice, "don't pay any more attention to the experiments."

"You think you can keep this knowledge from the public? I doubt it. I'm telling you right now: I quit!"

You storm from the room, but you hear the president's voice from inside: "You won't last long out there! Trust me - your days are numbered!"

Of course, you realized that they would try to kill you for leaving the company - but if you're half the hero your father was, there's no army guy in the world who can mess with you. By laying low for a few months you manage to escape detection, until one evning a knock comes at your door. You are relieved to find that it's not anyone you know from the former UAC. It's two men who happened to be friends of your father after the "war." "There's no time for small talk," one of them says. "WAR is mobilizing its robotic creatures now. We have to take them out."

"And how do you propose we do that?" you ask. "You know as well as I do that almost all weapons have been taken by the UAC... before they changed their name, that is."

"There's one weapon that they didn't take. You know which one. And we know you can find something better as you go."

"But..."

The other man hands you a slip of paper. "Here's the address of WAR's new underground entrance. You have 24 hours to prepare." he says. Then they leave as quickly as they had arrived.

You stand in the doorway, numb, as they drive away. Finally you glance over to your mantle, where on display is the one weapon UAC did not steal - your father's pistol. "Screw that." you say to yourself. "Better to surprise them now." You grab the pistol and head towards the entrance to WAR, confident that you can face down anything WAR throws at you...
================================

To go with the story, I've already changed the graphics which say "UAC" to "WAR." The first level is basically a little building built around the teleport into the building (go back to my other thread to see it). The second level, Security Station, features a crate-hopping puzzle which gets you running around at four different ceiling heights - in the same room. The third level is the ground floor. You can actually go outside the building at one point (I have a night sky texture for that), and thanks to the people at the editing board, it now looks like you're on the edge of a cliff. And the fourth level is a maze of offices. You end up walking on top of the barriers, and this becomes the basis for getting the green key and your first plasma gun (you jump off and onto their platforms).

I'm working on the fourth level right now, but when I get five levels done I'm going to post it on my site so that you all can try it out and send me comments, suggestions, death threats, etc...

[Fletcher`]

Ook. (ferret-like ook) Wow. A good story that isn't up to it's ass with cliches. :)

[correction: Bad Cliches]

[netnomad312]

Cliches like how monsters are coming out of hell and all? That's a cliche I knew I wanted to avoid in my story. It was great for the plot of Doom, but let's face it: that gets old. I wanted a story about facing down a corrupt mutation of a good company instead of a good company suddenly attacked by hellspawn coming out of portals. I mean, you'd think they would stop building portals after the second invasion, but nooo... anyway, that's why I figured that WAR corp could be constructing the monsters themselves. I figure I could make the president of WAR a spiderdemon (like he fused his mind with it somehow), and his bodyguard the cyberdemon.

You know, I used to have my own Doom site. It featured my reviews of various wads and practically every sound file in the game for download, as well as all kinds of animated GIF files. But I couldn't make my own levels back then, and the site was plagued with practically no vistors and it was taking up most of my web space, so I took it down. I will, however, make a special page and most it on my site with screenshots from the game, when I post the first five levels. That is, if I can ever get Doom displayed in a window; I get an "unsupported mode" message every time I press alt-enter while in Doom (I have Doom 95, which is supposed to support that mode).

[Fletcher`]

You want doom ina window? Get Zdoom.
zdoom.notgod.com/lars

[netnomad312]

Nope. Can't use source ports. Biggest no-no Doom 95 puts on ya...

Oh, I've been meaning to mention... your title is pretty funny. I've actually seen a lot of people with custom titles - do you just ask for them or something?

[DOOM Anomaly]

netnomad312 said:

do you just ask for them or something?

Heh, if you want a certain one in particular ;) Or you can do something amazingly incompetent to get one...Other wise if you want a positive one, then you must wait, and earn it.

[Use]

netnomad312 said:

Nope. Can't use source ports. Biggest no-no Doom 95 puts on ya...

please explain. Doom95 is simply another variation of the Doom executable. the raw data for the game remains in the iwads, Doom2.wad and Doom.wad. your pwads, or levels, should be able to run the same if not better in a better port. i used doom95 for a while but it's really a chunk of crap compared to say..prboom, which to me looks and feels just like doom95 but without the bullshit.

[netnomad312]

I just never could use them. I tried one or two. I can't remember what they were called, it was so long ago... but they both caused massive errors and nothing would load...

[netnomad312]

DOOM Anomaly said:

Heh, if you want a certain one in particular ;) Or you can do something amazingly incompetent to get one...Other wise if you want a positive one, then you must wait, and earn it.

How about "banned five times by accident?" That happened to me. It's incredibly annoying. Apparently I share a similar IP with some jerk who keeps getting banned...

[Fletcher`]

DOOM Anomaly said:

Heh, if you want a certain one in particular ;) Or you can do something amazingly incompetent to get one...Other wise if you want a positive one, then you must wait, and earn it.

Yes and you could look like a hobbit too. :P Or let your ass do all the talking. :/

[DOOM Anomaly]

ravage said:

Or let your ass do all the talking. :/

I did that once...scared people cause they didn't know who was talking :D

[Biffy]

netnomad312 said:

I just never could use them. I tried one or two. I can't remember what they were called, it was so long ago... but they both caused massive errors and nothing would load...

Sir, I really must urge you to more carefully consider what others are telling you. You've been pointed to zdoom by at least three different people in response to saying you "can't" use source ports. Your position is not reasonable if you simply refuse to try it. Again, using a source port has nothing to do with doom95. My other message to you last week explains exactly how to use zdoom and I get the feeling you won't even carefully read it. I also took the trouble to write you a dehacked patch, for your green keys, and as far as I can tell, you ignored that too.

Probably what's going on here is that you don't like to be "pushed" by anyone in any way, so you'll hold out as long as you can with good old Doom95. It's your loss. Be aware that any wad you make, no one is going to play it with Doom95. When I play your stuff, I'm using zdoom.

[netnomad312]

Well there's no way I'm going to make some kind of wad for the source ports. I'm making wads you can run with "plain vanilla" Doom 2, and that's going to be its intended use. And you're just not getting the point: I tried source ports. They crashed. Loading dehacked patches crash the game too. I don't know what else to say; if you don't believe me fine, all I care about is that I know what happened. And even if I could run source ports, I'd rather not. I'm happy with what I have. End of story.

[Biffy]

These will be my last comments on the subject then, don't bother to reply. You're really "happy with what you have"? Well, I recall that you wanted to change some messages in the game and also wanted to take screenshots while running in a window. That's why folks offered you the advice to come up to speed about alternates to doom95 or doom.exe.

By the way, you are making "some kind of wad for the source ports". There is no difference you have to think about, all source ports play standard wads.

I do believe you about those "..so long ago..." crashes. I also believe that you are using this as a lame excuse for not trying something current, now that you have been told how easy it is. The zdoom download is under 1 MB, it's written for current Windows systems and simple to use. You can have your cake and eat it too, so to speak.

This has been an interesting exchange. I don't think I've ever seen someone on the forums who had such significant gaps in their computer and doom technical knowledge, yet was as insistent about "don't bother me with the facts". There is a lot of good stuff going on and plenty of people willing to help. I'll stop bothering you and maybe, after some time passes, you can let your guard down a bit.

Good luck with your project, it sounds interesting.

[The Ultimate DooMer]

netnomad312: It crashes with source ports because you have the doom2.wad that came with Doom 95 - install the dos version (found on the Doom 95 CD in a subfolder) and it'll be fine. (trust me - I've run ZDoom and 007ltsd.wad on a P200 without any trouble)

[netnomad312]

Biffy said:

These will be my last comments on the subject then, don't bother to reply. You're really "happy with what you have"? Well, I recall that you wanted to change some messages in the game and also wanted to take screenshots while running in a window. That's why folks offered you the advice to come up to speed about alternates to doom95 or doom.exe.

By the way, you are making "some kind of wad for the source ports". There is no difference you have to think about, all source ports play standard wads.

I do believe you about those "..so long ago..." crashes. I also believe that you are using this as a lame excuse for not trying something current, now that you have been told how easy it is. The zdoom download is under 1 MB, it's written for current Windows systems and simple to use. You can have your cake and eat it too, so to speak.

This has been an interesting exchange. I don't think I've ever seen someone on the forums who had such significant gaps in their computer and doom technical knowledge, yet was as insistent about "don't bother me with the facts". There is a lot of good stuff going on and plenty of people willing to help. I'll stop bothering you and maybe, after some time passes, you can let your guard down a bit.

Good luck with your project, it sounds interesting.

Those things like running Doom in a window aren't that important to me. What's more important to me is actually playing Doom, not a modified version. I've heard that some ports include jumping or swimming or some other crazy stuff. That's cool. But that isn't Doom. And I know that people do make wads for the source ports; I've seen some.

If you believe me on that point then why do you think it's a lame excuse? If they didn't work then, they're not going to work now. There's been no changes on my system, nor have I gotten a new one, so nothing's going to change.

Now, you listen. I may not be much for Doom editing, but I know my computer well, and I know from experience what it can and can't do. Don't think for a minute that I don't know what I'm talking about, because I do. Furthermore, not everyone in the world of Doom has a source port, and not everyone wants one. I can't have one, for one thing; I've told you why, yet you think it's some kind of excuse. Again, I don't care what you think; the only thing that matters to me is the truth, and you don't know what happens on my computer. And if it was possible, I don't want one because I don't feel like changing the exe, no matter the little perks. That's my opinion. And the more you insult me, the less likely you are to change it. I suggest you drop the subject, because no one on this board has pursued this issue as long as you have. I know there are better things you can do with your time then making sure I have the latest edition of ZDoom.

Thanks for your comments on my wad. I'm almost done with the fifth level, but I'm going to wait until after the sixth to post the demo version.

[Erik]

go ahead and make it for doom95/doom2.exe, you will reach out to the largest possible crowd with such a wad.

[Biffy]

Want to keep on talking about it? OK, then I have a few more observations.

Erik - the issue here never was that he should make a wad compatible for anything other than doom2 or doom95. That was never the point until it surfaced as a "reason" to keep on using Doom95.

Netnomad - I see that the problem we've had is that your basic position was not clear at first, not to me anyway. Your first posts asked how to do something and people offered ideas.

Your following posts emphasized "computer troubles" and included statements which made it obvious that you had misunderstandings about some of the workings of doom2.exe, doom95.exe and other more recent ports. My responses simply assumed that you would welcome information to clear up problems and allow you to enjoy the wider scope of things going in in the doom world.

Then your continued replies to some folks about "can't use xxx, I told you it crashes..." clearly indicated that you had not considered the technical information that was offered to you. At this time I pushed you some to read more carefully what had been written. I still thought your objections to anything other than doom95 were based on computer problems, yet you were oddly unwilling to consider addressing those problems, just repeating that "my computer won't let me..". I stand by my "lame excuse" statement because, I say again, your earlier posts made it clear that your problems were in part "operator error". Trying to load a source port "into" doom95? Dehacked patches "crashing the game"? When told how to address those issues, you did not try once, just repeated the mantra. That's why it's lame, you did not try even once, after the issue was supposedly cleared up (remember, we were still in the computer problems mode).

Now your basic position has become clear. Your position is that "I'm not interested in anything other than what I've got". Hey, that is fine and I would never have been talking to you if that was clear from the start. I could not care less what you do. If I've insulted you, it's because I perceive you as not being entirely honest with me. Some of your statements such as "I told you, I can't use xxx, my computer won't allow it" are laughable as long as you have Windows95 or anything newer. That's where I've been thrown off, the "can't" stuff. It's not "I can't", it's "I won't". Yes, your position is now quite clear. You don't need to explain it any more. I'll stick to helping folks with technical issues if I can.

[netnomad312]

I don't want to use them, you are right about that. But it is also that they crashed the game. Once again, you claim I'm not being entirely honest with you on that point. And let's face it, I know there's no way I can convince you that I'm right. But all I care about is what I know, and I don't care what you think about that.

Yes, this is the third time I've said that. I wouldn't have had to say it again except you still consider me dishonest. The way I feel that you insulted me was when you said I had a knowledge gap in the technology of Doom and my computer. I take that personally because it's quite far from the truth. I know well how the computer works, and I'm learning quickly how wad files work by using Wintex and WadAuthor.

As for why I presented my reasons to not use source ports in the order that I did: I simply hoped not to have to explain them all to you. That would have made an unnecessarily long post. Of course, since you pushed the point of my reasons, I was forced to. The issue of only making a "plain vanilla" wad didn't "surface;" that was one of the reasons which I hoped not to have to explain to you. But Erik is right.

As for dehacked patches... I've already decided my policy on that, at least for this wad: I'm not going to include one. I've already gone as far as including deusf with my wad (because it will include the green key sprites and you have to merge it), but I'd not like any more complexity in the installation. However, anyone who wants to make a patch for themselves is welcome to. You, for instance, could certainly use your green key patch if you play my demo.

That's all. Again, I have nothing against patches or source ports. I'd be glad to drop this discussion now.

[TheHighestTree]

Speaking of megawads, i just finished another level of mine, for a total of 10.7 maps. The story is going to focus on a cop or soldier sent into a large city to attempt to rescue any remaining people after the UAC sent out their army to overtake the country. Upon finding no survivors - and lacking the firepower to single-handedly stop the wave of monsters - he turns his attention to eliminating the local UAC complexes responsable for the destruction. Levels take place on his journey from the suburbs and countryside to the heart of the local UAC-owned military island compound.

[Use]

netnomad312 said:

As for dehacked patches... I've already decided my policy on that, at least for this wad: I'm not going to include one. I've already gone as far as including deusf with my wad (because it will include the green key sprites and you have to merge it), but I'd not like any more complexity in the installation.

c:\newdoom\zdoom -file war.wad -deh war.deh

I suspect we may see you back here in this discussion once you hit the lovely Doom95 savegame buffer overrun or the fabulous looking visual plane limiter.