The DWmegawad Club plays: KINDa

[Biodegradable]

21 hours ago, TheMightyWhoosh said:

The next map is pretty fun, though… 

 

And you are correct, mate! Sorry I didn't like MAP21 very much, but this very much makes up for it.

 

MAP22 - Skin

UV | Continuous | GZDoom and Vanilla+

 

Aha this was a fun simple romp through a fleshy mess of madness and a nice change of pace. Much more focused on combat than anything else and the progression was super simple, which was a breath of fresh air. A big dumb action set piece that chucks everything at you from the get-go with a layout that feels like an homage to Circle of Death from D2. A great way to make up for the tedium of the previous map in my book. Just simple, tasteful Doom-flavoured fun.

 

 

[brick]

MAP20 - Monster HQ (98% kills, 70% items, 60% secrets)

The map has potential but I felt it didn't fulfill it completely. The cyber/spider is a nice callback to Gotcha but without the switch there's no real reason to hang around as opposed to just running past them without a second though. So many hitscanners, especially, chaingunners, is starting to feel a bit exhausting, though at least here you can actually see and shoot them even when they take you by surprise. I couldn't get on those raised ledges in the open area, which is where I missed some of the items, and I have no idea where the missing secrets are.

 

MAP21 - Melancholy (100% kills and secrets, 98% items)

I take back the "a bit", the long range chaingunners now make me groan every time I see them. Thankfully the map is quite short. I of course didn't find the secret invulnerability until after I had cleared that last fight... running around nukage is not a great deal of fun but thankfully there are a lot of radsuits on HNTR. Some of the visuals are pretty cool but the excess of hitscanners is making me want to rush through the maps instead of taking my time to savour them, which is a bit of a shame.

[Salt-Man Z]

MAP31: Hell's Party (HMP/continuous/saves)

5:48 | 100% Everything

Not bad. The first half I remember far more vividly, on account of having had to play it twice: the first time, after grabbing the blue key, I was startled by the suddenly-appearing archie (with no cover) and immediately killed before I could switch to an appropriate weapon. The blue key fight itself had been long (and simple) enough that I had never gotten a chance to save. The second half of the map was maybe more interesting to look at, but perhaps more tedious to clean up. The secrets were of the well-I-guess-we'll-just-see-where-this-teleporter-goes variety.

 

MAP32: The Monster Museum

41:12 | 99% Kills | 98% Items | 100% Secrets

This map was the first of the WAD to make me actively angry. The start was insanity, beginning up high where you're immediately targeted by dozens of hitscanners and potentially distant mancs and a revvie. I think it took me 3-4 attempts to just not immediately die. Then I spent probably 15 minutes cleaning out the southwest corner, just being harassed by monsters everywhere. At one point, down to like 24% health, I got nailed in the back from an imp fireball two entire rooms away, halving my health. By that point, I had found only 2 of the yellow key switches, and was about to go insane. Finally I looked at the automap, and figured there might be something down in the blood moat, which I had avoided jumping into on account of constantly being low on health and assuming the blood to be damaging. Nope! I quickly found the third switch, and what was apparently an unmarked secret behind the waterfall! Cue another 5-10 minutes of fruitless searching for the final switch before finally grumpily saving and exiting and heading to this thread for the solution. WTF, man. (I also accidentally read the spoiler for the blue key, which I like to think I would have found by myself, but that placement was still rather shady.) The second (northern) half of the map went by a lot faster, though it was still a lot of find-a-switch-to-press-and-then-wonder-what-it-did. I was also curious about the cyberdemons; they appeared to be encased in invisible walls for release upon hitting a switch, but I was able to kill the southern cyber before he could move (took 7-8 pointblank BFG blasts) and the northern one I at least damaged somewhat before realizing I probably wasn't meant to be able to. He was released in (I presume) the intended fashion, and dispatched later. I did like the look of this map a lot, but the obtuseness of progression was just maddening. I get that it's a secret map, but still...

 

MAP16: Patino

9:53 | 100% Everything

This level mostly flew by, as it was for the most part just a lot of run-and-gun. I liked the climb around the inside wall of the courtyard to activate the exit switch. I of course had no idea what that switch did on account of the ridiculously-massive hitscanner/pinkie teleport ambush that followed. That was insane,  and seemed to go on forever. I took out the first few waves with some BFG blasts, but then more just kept coming, and I quickly found myself reduced to single-digit health playing peekabook around the corner with my SSG (not always successfully.) The combo of hitscanner mobs and stingy health is becoming a little obnoxious, here's hoping it doesn't get worse on the back half of the WAD. (It probably will!) Thank goodness for the soulsphere secret at the end of this one.

[dei_eldren]

7 hours ago, TheMightyWhoosh said:

I'm glad you enjoyed this one! It was one of my favourites to create and play test. The only thing I wish I’d done differently is:

 

  Reveal hidden contents

Place an exit sign by the yellow key door, as you cannot get back to the rest of the level after you’ve stepped on the teleporter. The exit originally didn’t have the fence surrounding it; however it was possible to Arch-vile jump to the exit without a fence being there!

 

 

Yeah, it's good to go different from general style of the WAD from time to time :)

[TheMightyWhoosh]

MAP 23 - Progression hint (not spoilered as I’d like everybody to read it):

 

Grab the red key at the earliest opportunity! It triggers a linedef action that’ll save you a lot of time wandering about later on. In hindsight, I should have tagged various other linedefs around the area to carry out the same action. 
 

This is my least favourite map, mostly due to the amount of time faffing with it. I left it uncompleted for quite a while and now wish I had deleted it and started from scratch. There are a couple of nice visuals; however I don’t think there is much else going for it. 

[TJG1289]

GZDoom/Blind/UV/Continuous/Saves

Map 21 - MELANCHOLY 

100% kills and secrets

Time: 13:56

 

You know what, I actually liked this map. I've seen some negativity toward it, including from TMW, but I don't think it's too bad. I can see why people might be annoyed by it. The toxic waste traversal is back, but I think this was done pretty well here. Decent amount of rad suits to go around, and there's not a lot of need for dilly-dallying in the waste anyway. I did run out of rad suit once, but found 2 a little bit further in. I never fell below 100% health, thanks to Map 20's megasphere, even with some annoying hitscan spots. The shotgunner/imp teleport ambush got me shot a lot, but received mostly low damage rolls. The combat design in this one is kinda weak in points. The 2 areas I can think of are the 2 big outdoor areas: one leading to the red key and the other to the exit. The one leading to the red key looks empty, then surprise! Here's a random assortment of knuckleheads. The one leading to the exit barely has any monsters in it, AND it also has the path to the secret invul from the red key room. Why both secrets needed to be for the same thing, idk. Also, that invul is totally not needed for this. A couple of revs, arachnotrons, and a few others is not a scary fight. But for the most part, I didn't think this one was too bad. Progression made sense, there was no dumb hidden keys, decent amount of ammo. Not bad at all.

 

Map 22 - SKIN

100% kills and secrets

Time: 8:14

 

Been a minute since we had a hot start, and it only took a second before my health finally went back under 100%. This map's fleshy hell design reminds me of last month's Skulltiverse, and I think this map could have worked in that episode. It's the most no-nonsense map in the WAD that isn't whatever Map 31 was trying to do. You're in a circular arena with a few offshoots. There's imps and hitscan on your level, along with imps, pinkies, and barons in the center flesh pit, with a sniping archie in the dead center. You can hide from the archie on the elevated circle part here, but not entirely. There are small thin gaps in the wall that mean at the right angles, you can still get zapped. Happened to me. It's really clever design here. The only health I seem to remember seeing is on the raising and lowering pillars in the center, and a secret megasphere that I'm pretty sure lowers at the same time the yellow key does, so idk why it's a secret. Though this is where the giant teleport ambush happens, that also opens up the center arena to the little outskirt on the west, allowing for much movement and infighting. Super fun. Idk why there's a room with a partial invisibility and 3 fake walls with cacos just to hide a switch. Invis ain't useful here. Other than that odd room, super fun and concise map! Definitely one of the best in the set. Though, again, with the MIDI, I expected a Spider Mastermind, and was severely disappointed. 

[dei_eldren]

1 hour ago, TheMightyWhoosh said:

MAP 23 - Progression hint (not spoilered as I’d like everybody to read it):

 

Grab the red key at the earliest opportunity! It triggers a linedef action that’ll save you a lot of time wandering about later on. In hindsight, I should have tagged various other linedefs around the area to carry out the same action. 
 

This is my least favourite map, mostly due to the amount of time faffing with it. I left it uncompleted for quite a while and now wish I had deleted it and started from scratch. There are a couple of nice visuals; however I don’t think there is much else going for it. 

 

Haha - i just played it and let's just say it was the longest a map has taken me this WAD... i wish i had eaten before deciding to play it :D  But i affirm about the visuals, and in general it's a really good looking map, and i admire its layout and architecture.

 

Spoiler

Regarding the RK, it's a bit funny it isn't needed except for the exit, so putting a linedef for progression on it is probably a bit strange, as was the placing of it too in view of that :D  Probably the level would be more manageable without it altogether.

 

Edited October 22, 2021 by dei_eldren

[Mr.Rocket]

Just want to pop in here and say.. OK

This is the stuff right here guys, this right here, this is the shit..

 

[Andromeda]

2 hours ago, Mr.Rocket said:

Just want to pop in here and say.. OK

This is the stuff right here guys, this right here, this is the shit..

I agree, have been playing along with the club (despite not posting) and having a blast so far! Short, challenging, resource-starved levels - just how I like them.

[TheMightyWhoosh]

3 hours ago, dei_eldren said:

 

Haha - i just played it and let's just say it was the longest a map has taken me this WAD... i wish i had eaten before deciding to play it :D  But i affirm about the visuals, and in general it's a really good looking map, and i admire its layout and architecture.

 

  Reveal hidden contents

Regarding the RK, it's a bit funny it isn't needed except for the exit, so putting a linedef for progression on it is probably a bit strange, as was the placing of it too in view of that :D  Probably the level would be more manageable without it altogether.

 

Glad you found the visuals satisfying! I quite like them too! You could in theory play the map and not know what the linedef action does, so I’ll spoiler it:

 

Spoiler

They lower bars by the red door so you cannot access the exit. The switch in the massive blood pool at the northern end of the map opens these bars; however if you press the switch before you collect the red key, the bars would close again when you collected said red key and you’d have to walk alllllll the way back to the switch! A big design flaw on my part :-(

 

2 hours ago, Mr.Rocket said:

Just want to pop in here and say.. OK

This is the stuff right here guys, this right here, this is the shit..

 

Great stuff. Cheers mate! 

[Book Lord]

5 hours ago, TJG1289 said:

Idk why there's a room with a partial invisibility and 3 fake walls with cacos just to hide a switch.

Because it was the Megasphere switch.

[TheMightyWhoosh]

1 hour ago, Andromeda said:

I agree, have been playing along with the club (despite not posting) and having a blast so far! Short, challenging, resource-starved levels - just how I like them.

Thanks mate! These positive comments have really cheered me up! I know I can improve my mapping skills in the future but it’s nice to know the megawad is very much to some players tastes!  

 

3 minutes ago, Book Lord said:

Because it was the Megasphere switch.

This. The idea of the room is also to represent a torture chamber for a single corpse, with the imps watching him hang there and suffer (#sadistic)!

[FragsBunny]

MAP22: Skin (100%/66%/100%)

1.       Hell knight projectiles travel twice as fast

2.       Arch-vile will steal items off the ground

3.       Cacodemon gain health and damage after killing another monster

 

I could pick the third card option cause cacodemons are “always focused” on me, but meh. Anyway, painting most walls with guts and intestines does not change the fact that this map is another Circle of Death rip-off (hell, even Plutonia had many rip-offs too!). And the start of the map is the hottest so far – so hot that the best place where you push yourself to the back of the wall is near one of those demon faced-doors in the corridor.

 

There is a lot of meat to kill, but your primary focus should be the pain elemental as well as the lone arch-vile in the middle of the cage. Even if I didn’t play with cards, "Skin" is still challenging, considering the fact that ammo shortage is here again! It took me two tries to finish this map, and the end of it I exhausted lots of shells, bullets and rockets. I could save some ammo by making monsters infight, but considering the card negatives, it was preferable to kill them as quickly as possible. Fortunately, the mega-sphere was there, but I missed the berserk pack which was teasingly placed right near the raised start teleporter. The yellow key ambush was manageable, and I killed most of the enemies before the black rain started to shower again. Come on, just give more exciting encounters!

[kawadec]

Session 4, Maps 16 - 20.

 

(I swear these thumbnails are trying to Daniel Radcliffe me, they keep landing on me getting either a Praetor token or a rune.)

 

Map 16

This level seemed fine enough as far as I went into it as intended. That said, when I saw a potential opportunity to cheese it by maneuvering from a secret down to the platform with the switch to the exit, I wanted to see if I could land it without any jumps or climbing, and got it on the first try. Just gonna keep that in. Of course hitting that switch kicked the bees' nest, as I hoped it would, and what remained of the level from there was a blast.

 

Map 17

Okay, for this I played it legit enough, and it was pretty solid in terms of throwing stuff at me to fight with variety as I explored, and I never got lost for too long. A satisfying experience.

 

Map 18

Some enjoyable encounters throughout, made even better when EoAternal turned an Archie at the end into a Marauder for a tense duel. The red key room also looked pretty cool from a design perspective.

 

Unfortunately I missed whatever I was supposed to do to get to the exit legitimately, and took advantage of the Doom Slayer's ability to use his arms to get out of here before I got too tired of this place. Sorry for that one.

 

Edit: The last switch I needed was over there? Really? I know I'm an idiot who misses obvious stuff sometimes, but why is that switch tucked away in a corner like that? Again it's like secret and progression placement got swapped around in these levels or something. I even missed a big fight at the end and everything, aaaaa

 

Constructive feedback, maybe have that switch more front-facing on that pillar as you approach that end of the room? Just something you have to hunt less for.

 

Map 19

Tight-quarters encounters with weenies and drones, and multiple Marauder duels like the one in the last level, all with an aggressive Pantera MIDI burping along in the background...yes, this is exactly the kind of experience I was hoping would show up eventually when combining this wad and mod. I even learned a good bit about how Marauders work in this mod: hitting when they go for the melee attack is still the best chance for damage, but they block fewer hits than normal, if you want/need to go for that max aggression approach (maybe a limitation of classic Doom, or just the dev giving him the nerfs critics wanted, I can only speculate). Being trapped in a closet with one of them shotgunning the door made me think I was screwed, but my SSG/Ballista bread n' butter came through, somehow.

 

A really fun level, only thing I could criticize is that this calculator only counted up to 4 before I found my way out; 1/5 calculator, would not crunch numbers with it. But given how long I spent on 1 - 4, I'm glad it ended there before it overstayed its welcome.

 

Map 20

Looked forward to trying to get the Cyberdemon and Mastermind to turn on each other a la Doom II, but they stayed asleep for a while, and then the Cybie got stuck on a pillar. Never could get that classic duel to happen, but oh well, guess instead I treated it like a boss rush.

 

Level was decent enough. Plenty of action to enjoy. A few moments of wandering around, but in this case it's entirely on me for missing details (and assuming a raised platform was one I couldn't scale normally, derp).

Edited October 22, 2021 by kawadec

[DJVCardMaster]

MAP22 - Skin (100%K/66%I/100%S):

Hey, is the fleshy Skulltiverse episode again, solid map revolving around a combat arena, I usually don't fancy this kind of maps, but I can recognize they are often better than the usual classic Doomey stuff, specially when I feel overwhelmed by the amount of "Classic Doom" gameplay we are having with the previous maps. So far this map made a little bit more sense, we needed somewhat of a "boss-fight", possibly one of the best maps here. There is not a hunger for ammo, though you'll need to grab the berserk pack right at the starting pad, going back, if don't, you would not be able to have it. I'm happy this is not trying to complicate my life with its layout.

(UV Playthrough - PrBoom+)

Order of preference:

 

Spoiler

 

MAP09
MAP12
MAP22
MAP10
MAP08

MAP05
MAP11

MAP01
MAP16
MAP21
MAP20
MAP17
MAP13
MAP04
MAP06
MAP14
MAP19
MAP02
MAP15
MAP07
MAP18
MAP03
MAP31

MAP32 (Unrated)

 

 

[Veinen]

Map18: The Doomsday Machine video

 

Really good map. Classic TNT-esque techbase romp with a climactic bloodbath for a finale. Ammo is very abundant by KINDa standards and the RL secret at the latest will take all your ammo problems away. Early Soulsphere secret aids your way through the first half of the map and another very helpful invulnerability secret lets you mow down the spawning hordes in the finale without worry. I imagine this would be a rather different experience if you don't find some the key secrets, especially the RL and the BFG, but they are at least quite easy to find and placed on plain sight to invite secret hunting. My only minor gripe here is that the finale's teleporters can be rather slow sometimes, which is unfortunate when going for speedy 100% kills as thus randomness essentially makes or breaks your run. Aside that, really fun stuff!

[FistMarine]

Thanks everyone who helped me in reaching the secret rocket launcher in MAP17! I just received two PMs yesterday from both dei_eldren and TheMightyWhoosh around same time and I have also watched the recent UV-Max video posted by Vienen when I logged in the forum in this morning.
I was able to finally get 100% everything in this map and be able to continue the next maps for a full 100% playthrough. To give a hint to reach the secret in case others don't know how to get it, check those pillars in the middle of map (where you grabbed the yellow key earlier).
I appreciate you guys helping me! Cheers!
Now let's see the progress with the following 3 maps (that's right, only doing 3 maps daily from now on, possibly even two or just one when nearing the end of the megawad)

 

MAP18: Doomsday Machine
Interesting map. I found it challenging at times but never too difficult. There's a few tricky fights and some ambushes involving pressing a switch marked by blue door texture that will spawn a few monsters nearby, so what I did was just have plasma ready and run and spray plasma, got through some of these sections without any damage. Still had to be careful at times. I guess the idea is that these switches will eventually unlock the blue key access.
The last part of the level is the highlight with tons of hitscanners/imps/demons but also two mancubi and revenants on ledges (also few imps) and a stationary Cyberdemon guarding the exit! Luckily there is an invulnerability that greatly helped me to kill the last few enemies quickly, after I took cover in the previous room and waited for most enemies there and safely killed them, when was about finishing the map, I saved and then I took a look in ZDoom (yeah I know, a bit of cheating) just to figure out how to get that invulnerability secret (and the rest two I missed) so I can have an easier time dealing with the rest. I got so lucky that the cyber got infight with those revenants on ledges, distracting him, so I can push the wall and then teleport to the ledge to get the invulnerability, after that BFG him to death and clear those enemies on ledges with rockets.
Outside of being a bit dark at times in those corridors, I think the level was pretty fun. Then again I made that last part look much easier, especially with waiting the enemies come over there in front of that door rather than stay in that arena.
I also noticed a rocket pickup unreachable on that crate (see screenshot).
As for secrets, I don't know how to explain getting some of them but I know there was a BFG + backpack on a crate accessible by pressing a blue switch between two crates (around where that glitched rocket is found) and a room where you had to shoot a switch to remove bars to access rocket launcher + rockets, then a secret soulsphere I grabbed at end from the teleporter in the room you find the plasma on crate. And obviously that invulnerability mentioned earlier (I think BFG and backpack both count as two separate secrets). But yeah, in the end I got all of them.

 

MAP19: Calculator
Wow, just got really lucky in this map because although I took a lot of damage at some parts full of hitscanners which eventually brought me down to 19% health and 18% armor (around halfway to the map, until I opened the central blue door and looked for normal health pickups), I got amazingly lucky with dealing with the archviles. I never got blasted and they sometimes got distracted when they started targeting the other monsters, so I just used BFG in general to quickly get rid of them.
With that said, I have mixed feelings about this one. There's ambushes everywhere and the map is also too dark at times. Sometimes I had to shoot blindly with shotgun/chaingun or SSG just to hit zombies/imps/spectres in the dark.
I also reloaded save once because I stumbled upon soulsphere secret and didn't want to grab at that time (I still had 114% health) and I never got to make use of invisibility secret (which I found it at end, probably counts as two secrets) or even the green armor (which I just found earlier when I still had above 100% blue armor but completely forgot about the location and couldn't find it anymore when I needed it, so I went with last couple of blue armor points in final rooms).
I'm not sure how I got through this. At the last ambushes I was certain I would be screwed when the archvile targeted me in front of the "fake" exit but thanks to a chaingunner shooting the archie to distract him, I was able to get away from that blast, then waste a BFG shot when door closed in my face. This reminds me that this is why I no longer use the rocket launcher in situations like these, if I had fired a rocket, I would have died when the door closed, so I just preferred to use the BFG with my remaining cells just to make sure I make it out alive.
The map still wasn't over just yet and despite the fact I had killed 180 enemies, there were still 8 more because I realized the extra 8 enemies are archvile resurrections, so I had to carefully peek for those few more enemies (since I was at 61% health) and eventually the way was clear, grabbed 3 more stimpacks and saved. Then there is the last enemy (another archvile) at end of level but the first time I just entered into the exit teleporter and then reloaded save to get last kill. So then I position myself and BFG the Archie right in time. And that's it!
Then backtrack and collect goodies (including the green armor I forgot to pick up earlier, before I grabbed the blue one) so I ended up with 200% health and armor and prepare myself for the next level. Maybe the next level will be even harder, who knows?
Forgot to mention, there's a SSG secret that I grabbed at start when I first teleported (before I pressed the switch that lowers the ground), I don't know if it's still accessible at end but I'm lucky I found it before pressing the switch. Meaning once again I end up with everything 100%.

 

MAP20: Monster HQ
As others already pointed out, this map is inspired by DOOM2's MAP20: Gotcha! At least with the cyber and spider being located close to another, I don't recall any other part of map resembling the original map. However, unlike in Gotcha, there wasn't much space to handle them, so I decided this time to not risk getting the bosses infight (the moment they became active halfway in the map) because I wasn't sure how would that turn out (will I get caught by Spider's super chaingun or maybe eat a cyber rocket while I try to get them infight), instead I took them out myself. Was that a good idea or not? Let's find out!
Before I get there, let me first advice whenever you see a radiation suit, make sure you grab it when you actually need it to cross the lava! The first one is seen at beginning, only grab it when you unlock those two doors (also clear the enemies inside the room carefully) and the second one is later given (in the room containing blue key), grab it QUICKLY because crushers will activate (I got lucky that I immediately grabbed it and hopped into lava) and then realized I have to go through lava to activate the small switch.
I don't feel like talking about every part of the map, so I will say that my slower approach has greatly helped in general to minimize the damage, though taking down the bosses myself from safe place (in order to save up my health and armor rather than risk getting caught between the bosses and getting unlucky, as mentioned above) made me get short on ammo at later points, like at part when I grabbed the blue key and cacodemons showed up (so I jumped into lava to escape since I had to think fast), when I killed them, I had like 6 bullets, 6 shells, 6 rockets and 20 cells left. I had to be extremely careful with ammo until I get more and later in level I even chainsawed a few demons just to save a bit more ammo but thankfully ammo started getting better when I found a few more secrets that contained ammo pickups and after that, the rest of the level wasn't too bad.
There are 5 secrets to find once again (as has been the case in last 3 maps) and I found first 4 during playing (though I didn't get to use the secret blue armor pickup since I already still had blue armor remaining), I don't remember what the rest were other than a Plasma secret and the blue armor. I guess they were the ammo packs, like those two cell packs I grabbed on the ledge when I teleported at one point. Interestingly, the 5th secret I found when the map was over, was just a medkit. A simple medkit. I thought the megasphere (unlocked with yellow key) was the last secret but instead it was just a medkit on a pillar. That was a bit interesting and unexpected. Maybe replace that medkit with a berserk pack?

Still a great map, even if the ammo may have been a bit tight at times!

 

Deaths so far: 0

 

I certainly didn't expect to get this far without dying once. It's probably the first ever Doom 2 megawad (besides the original Doom 2 obviously, which I beat without dying in my last playthrough in 2018) that I managed to get so far without dying a single time. Usually I get my first death in roughly the maps 07-15 or secret levels but this time I managed to get this far and do so well, even I got surprised by how lucky I got at some points. I still think MAP19 was the hardest (with MAP03 on second place) and came the closest to die but thankfully I survived in the end with a bit of luck.

Anyway I'm not here to celebrate too early, I'm sure the remaining 10 maps will be much harder and there might be even maps that can kill me multiple times, depending on the situation. The previous month's choice, Skulltiverse, had some maps that really kicked my ass, though I was able to eventually beat them. And honestly, I like the challenge that KINDA maps presented so far, it was the sort of challenge more to my liking, without getting too crazy at times (except some parts). On a continuous run it was just fine, have nothing to complain.

 

With that said, I will take a break this weekend because I feel kinda (heh) exhausted and I will be better off continuing Monday and then hopefully I will finally catch up. Have a nice weekend everyone!

 

I tried to attach screenshots (including two ones from yesterday's MAP16 and MAP17 I couldn't attach) and I seem to have hit the attachment limit again when I tried to attach MAP18 screenshots, so all I managed to upload are two screenshots from yesterday. I have no idea what's up with that and I hope the limit gets eventually fixed or else I won't be able to attach pictures anymore. I guess I can live without uploading screenshots, it's just my posts won't look as cool. :P

 

EDIT: Just found out My Attachments option, it seems I almost reached the 50 MB limit. I guess I will start deleting screenshots I already uploaded before and then I will be able to upload new ones. I will leave that for another day...

 

Spoiler

 

[FragsBunny]

MAP23: Bloodlove (100%/95%/40%)

1.       Pain elemental have a regenerating shield

2.       Revenants are more aggressive

3.       Arch-vile have increased movement speed

 

Urgh this map is all about blood and no love towards us! Upon entering the main blood courtyard, I was harassed from enemies at every corner. First thing to kill – that pain elemental! Then the central passage opened down, revealing several barons in front and arachnotrons in blood. I was forced to use my cells that I have carefully reserved up till now. Even so, it still took me two tries to beat the level.

 

Yes, there is a BFG on the map, but with the given shortage of ammo overall, you can only use it so many times. Yes, there is a berserk pack available at the beginning, but I was fighting imps with fastballs and pinkies that fire a projectile on death so I started use it when I finally noticed how low my ammo supplies are. There are less hitscanners compared to previous map, but they are still there. And that arch-vile guarding the rocket launcher from a tricky location.

 

As for the key hunt, I found a solution to yellow key quicker than expected, followed by red key and the blue key. I could not figure out how to pick up invulnerability and computer map so I skipped search for those secrets. After flipping the final switch, I ended up fighting even more arachnotrons. That map didn’t impress me in a good way. I ended up having even less ammo compared to MAP22’s finish! At least I managed to find the megashpere secret to compensate for my losses.  My question to The Might Whoosh – are you even considering the mindset of people who are trying to find the keys on the first time?

[dei_eldren]

KINDa - MAP23 Bloodlove (HNTR, blind, continuous w/ saves): K 100% (110/110), I 95% (42/45), S 40% (2/5), T ~1h16m

 

Spoiler

Almost the whole map is a vast hall of a nuclear facility where all the sections are open to each other.  It's impressive, and even with maps like Leak, Blackout and Monster Monopoly preceeding it, more ambitious in its scope and design than anything that's come before.  Coming out of the hallways of the small starting area into the industrial halls, first section to tackle is the one for the RK.  The first view is impressive visually and also in scope, as i emerge into a vast pool of blood with a nuclear reactor in the middle.  Running through it at first seems that enemies are confined mostly to the sides, but it won't take long for Cacos, Barons and Arachnotrons to find their way to me.

 

Spoiler

 

i clear the area, and the ones directly adjacent to it, but miss the RK entirely, before moving onwards to the next section (there's no set order in which they need to be tackled.)  The next pool of blood was overlooked by the ever-pleasant Arch-Vile.  For some reason i then venture into the eastern section, guarded heavily by Imps and hitscanners.  After making it safe for exploring what to do, all i find at first is a single switch which i don't know what it does, because at least i fail to detect an aural clue to the pillar that is lowered (i later return to the switch because one of the pillars is marked as a teleporter, and i finally realize perhaps that switch lowered it, even without sound.)  Anyway, soon after i find another more hidden switch, in the lowered area with computer towers and a central tower whereupon the YK is - so i thought perhaps the earlier switch revealed this one (this erroneous conclusion ended up costing me quite a bit of time.)  Anyway, this switch apparently lowers a lift to a teleport on the other side of this area, to reach which in time one has to dash up the stairs on this side and down the stairs on the other.  The timing is tight, even half a second more would've made a big difference, but there's simply no room for any error in the straferun, and it took me, what.. 20 tries? to reach the lift.  i honestly thought i'd never manage it, and felt like took forever.  But to my surprised it turned out to be a secret.  i gained the Megasphere for my troubles, but the real gain is that it transports me to the western section (which i somehow thought wasn't available - and ultimately won't be of much help in terms of progression). 

 

Spoiler

 

This side has another pool of blood, a visible (but extremely difficult to obtain) BK, guarded by a Mancubus behind a secret wall.  And other assorted enemies.  But other than that, no clear way to aid in progression - the BK turns out to be a secret and unnecessary, if one figures out the only slightly easier non-secret YK.  Either one of these is needed to gain access to the bloodroom.  So i 'do something' for quite some while (like try in vain to figure out the BK - for now, and finding a strange hidden teleport in the western bloodpool), until it occurs to me to try the first switch again.  Thankfully i was correct, it lowered the pillar indicated in the map, and the teleport took me to the YK.  But that's not the end of it yet.

 

Spoiler

 

There are prominent bars for BK and YK in the middle of the hallways on both sides of the facility.  Opening the YK bars there is a single switch, pressing which, opens up the wall behind it to reveal... a Baron, guarding an ammo-clip. i do agree, i should have realized it did something else - but i didn't.  As i assumed whatever it does is connected to the similar BK bars on the other side.  (Of course, it was, in meaning, but not functionally.)  But no, that it would have raised the bars preventing access to the large final room did not occur to me.  So, i ran around some more in desperation, even found the RK, until i learned that the path there had actually been opened, from one side.

 

Anyway, the switch there is guarded by a couple of Barons only.  But why not?  The place is fit for no lesser than Barons and Baronesses, a vast room of pure blood to swim in, with a constant supply of fresh blood via the bloodfalls.  After the switch, a liberal amount of Arachnotrons are released in the industrial halls as the last obstacle on the way out.

 

At some point, i also solved the mystery of the BK, opened up the bars in the other hallway, to find exactly the same situation as earlier with the YK bars.  i was still convinced they'd together somehow be involved in a secret, but after what Whoosh said in the spoiler realized what these switches must have done.

 

Anyway, my biggest criticism of this map is just the somewhat counter-intuitive progression combined with the lack of aural clues for what is happening (at least i don't hear sound of bars opening when pressing switches behind YK and BK bars, only the wall) - because without them, it could be anything at all, like say, a switch appearing in another place one hasn't seen before.   On the other hand, it seems i got a bit lucky on Melancholy, and perhaps a bit unlucky here.

 

i really disliked the mad-dash for the Megasphere secret, but it's true, i don't need to like everything - since i'm not very good at fast running that requires utmost accuracy, it's natural i'd dislike it (i remember one other instance i was convinced i couldn't make it, in Doom Zero, one of the maps has a complex and long platforming section that needs to be done running.)  The BK is difficult to obtain for sure, but i'm not sure why it's a secret when it is simply the optional counterpart of the YK?  Of secrets, i only netted 2/5, despite basically knowing what the remaining secrets are, and spending quite a bit of time looking for a solution.    

 

Whoosh said he hates this level and was even going to leave it out, but i'm glad he decided not to.  Despite everything, it's an epic map, inching again closer in style to Eternal Doom, and the design and the visuals, in my opinion, are the best in this set so far.  And i enjoyed playing through it, but would have enjoyed more if the progression had been a bit more intuitive and it hadn't taken me a quarter+ over an hour, right after my breakfast-tea, to sort everything out.  i'm curious to find out how well everyone else faired with the progression.

 

Spoiler

 

 

 

Kind of Top Ten:

Spoiler

MAP10 - Mud and Blood

MAP08 - Deux

MAP12 - Monster Monopoly

MAP09 - Death Delivery

MAP05 - Leak

MAP21 - Melancholy

MAP19 - Calculator

MAP20 - Monster HQ

MAP17 - Naive

MAP15 - Blackout

MAP16 - Patino

MAP23 - Bloodlove

MAP06 - Cement

MAP04 - Treehouse

MAP07 - the UAC Project

MAP02 - Hell's Cavity

MAP01 - Go

MAP18 - Doomsday Machine

MAP13 - Blast

MAP14 - Death's Dwelling

MAP22 - Skin

MAP11 - Her Keep

MAP03 - Toxic

MAP31 - Hell's Party

 

[cannonball]

MAP22 - “Skin”

 

This is fairly straightforward in its design, but to be completely honest it is one of the most engaging maps in the set so far. This is very much a 'popcorn flick' type of map with a hot start and a big singular teleport ambush for the yellow key. The hardest part is essentially gearing up as after that the map is pretty easy to manipulate to get monsters to infight. 

Simple and fun, a welcome tonic for a Friday night.

[TheMightyWhoosh]

2 hours ago, FragsBunny said:

My question to The Might Whoosh – are you even considering the mindset of people who are trying to find the keys on the first time?

Generally, yes; however I love the runaround when I’m searching for keys, so this has transferred into my KINDa map building. 
 

For this map I was far too transfixed on the gimmick of collecting the exit key really early and then the exit becoming blocked, and the rest of the map certainly suffered because of that. 
 

Apart from the the visuals, I will admit that the progression here is shocking. I’m actually embarrassed to showcase such a level. 

[DisgruntledPorcupine]

MAP21: Melancholy

UV, pistol start, no saves

100% kills, 0/2 secrets

 

We see the return of nukage in this map, green slime, brown brick, and white caves are the dominant textures here. The yellow and red key are in use here, but if I interpreted correctly only the yellow is needed, with the red giving you a backpack and some ammo drops for your trouble. Despite the return of nukage running, this was actually the most chill feeling level in a while, and it came at a pretty welcome time after a fair few grindy feeling levels. The resource starvation does come into account for a stretch while exploring the upper areas before entering the nukage, but for most of the level I had a fair amount of ammo. 

 

I started by going down the red key path in my runs, which went decently because of the fair amount of hitscanners to keep the ammo stores up, but getting the red key greets you with 2 barons which, like last level, really mess up your ammo balance. The path with the arachnotrons is where the ammo starvation is really felt. I used them to kill all the nearby cacos and used whatever ammo I had left to finish them off, and in my successful run I was left with 4 rockets to kill the revenants at the center of the nukage room that I left alone, and I had to then mad dash through the nukage to pick up some ammo at the end so I could actually get my start on the enemies in the area. From then on though is when the squeeze really started loosening up due to the hitscanners and pickups found around, and the rest of the level was relatively easy to complete. I quite liked the radsuit balance in this level too, it felt like I had just enough to hit all of the parts of the area I wanted to, which I was grateful for. I do wish the final room had a bit more monsters in it, felt like I had so much room to run around that nothing was really a threat.

 

Out of the nukage running levels so far, this one was definitely my favourite, feeling like it used the formula best. Solid map.

 

MAP22: Skin

UV, pistol start, no saves

100% kills, 1/1 secrets

 

A flesh themed arena (Skulltiverse flashbacks!), which visually pairs quite well with the skybox for the episode I found. The goal in this one is simple enough, kill the demons in the area, lower the yellow skull key and grab it, then fight the hordes that come in afterward and you can access the exit with the key. For a wad that loves to play with its layouts, this one is as simple as it gets, not a totally unwelcome change of pace. The differences also translate to the combat, which is also much more frantic and fast-paced than most levels in the wad. The ammo is also tight, but not oppressively so.

 

It's best advised to get the megasphere secret in this one, which is easy enough to obtain, because the final hordes can be quite nasty. Speaking of which, it's a moment with quite a bit of spectacle as far as this wad goes. After the yellow key is grabbed, parts of the arena lower down as monsters start teleporting in. It was cool to see the layout transform before the big fight, as that's a move I haven't really seen the wad pull, but it's something I'm always kind of a sucker for. Also, quick note, I had to IDDT to find the two cacos at the sides of the room that unlocks the megasphere. I got the two in front but the two in the sides don't wake up I suppose, so I didn't know there were fake walls there to get to them.

 

This one was very fun, feels very different from the rest of the wad but nails the style it goes for quite well.

[kawadec]

Aw yeah, finally caught up. Maps 21 and 22.

 

 

So this time the MIDI pack deemed fit to play Alice in Chains for the first level, and Dream Theater for the second? That's certainly one way to put me in good spirits.

 

Map 21 - Melancholy

Was real happy that the mod finally gave me a chaingun; given how anemic the HAR feels when not using micro missiles (it's pretty sad when the precision bolt can't one-shot fodder), I finally have another way to put those bullets to good use. On the most positive side, there were some real chonky hordes to fight in this one, which I was more than happy to take on.

 

As for what bugged me, I do want to talk about that, since it's something I realize I bunny hopped my way around up to now: the frequent trudging around in nukage/lava/etc for progression. It seems the thing that kept me from completing this map legitimately was a tucked away in another corner switch beyond the yellow door. In retrospect I do recognize there was the clue of an enemy and barrels in that area, and perhaps that was supposed to tease me into that corner, but I didn't pick up on that design language (instead I thought "okay I blew up that drone, time to move on"), and the nukage there only further led me to dismiss it. Why would I go in that corner when nothing obvious about it seemed important, and going there is sure to sap my health? If I played vanilla, what if I made terrible mistakes in a previous fight and had only a sliver of health to work with? There's no way I would touch any green sludge if I could avoid it.

 

Oh well, at the time I chose to forego the search of every corner I missed and moved on. 98% kills says I was close enough.

 

Map 22 - Skin

Easily one of my personal favorites so far in this wad. Right out of the gates we have a fight, and it only continues from there. Has that Dead Simple flavor of a compact space full of demons to deal with. And since EoA replaces the Archie's resurrection abilities with summoning, arguably he's even more of a threat now from his little perch in the center. I think I lucked out at noticing around 21:45 that a rocket sunk into a wall and understood that fake walls were at play. After that, the ambush following the yellow skull made for a great climax to the level, with the rising/falling flesh pillars and change of map layout beyond that inner ring adding further chaos to proceedings.

Edited October 23, 2021 by kawadec

[Book Lord]

MAP 23 – Bloodlove

Doomsday Engine, UV-fast, Continuous, blind run w/saves

 

Bloodlove was the turning point of my Kinda playthrough. Until then, I treated the author efforts with lenience and with sympathy; apart from some naivety, progression vagueness, and sometimes uninspired combat, the maps were playable and often even enjoyable on continuous. On MAP23, he obviously wanted to taunt and exasperate the unwary players, designing a deliberately punishing map where the enormous extension of the environment, the ridiculously low and scattered resources, and the cumbersome leg work created an oppressive and unpleasant atmosphere. If this was unintentional, then it was a bad oversight.

Spoiler

From the purely aesthetic point of view, the level was nice and successful at inspiring awe and foreboding: a gigantic technological installation, possibly a reactor core using blood as coolant, populated by dangerous clusters of hellspawn lurking in the shadows. Huge red liquid reservoirs were present in every area, their technical function being obscure and probably limited to colour contrast with the prevalent green & grey walls.

Spoiler

Pistol starters have no adequate weapon to deal with the hefty opposition awaiting beyond the first doors. Except for a Berserk pack, suitable only to punch the Pinkies, ammo and weapons were tucked away in far and unknown places. Before even setting foot in that deadly area, 4 Barons of Hell were added to the already crowded opposition and 6 Arachnotrons were about to teleport in, as if Imps, Hell Knights, and a faraway Pain Elemental were not enough. The RSK opening the exit was readily available, so I grabbed it and retraced my steps to the start. Haha! Bars had sealed the door: the RSK was just a mockery! I carried the arsenal to vanquish the bunch of hitpoints following me to the blocked exit, but I would not have felt as comfortable in pistol starter’s shoes.

 

I commenced the exploration of the plant, haunted by hitscanners and other monsters shooting from unbelievable distances, finding little health and armour to carry on. No major fights were in store, just lonely monsters like the Arch-Vile by the reactor core, a Mancubus taking a blood shower near the BSK, and a varied crowd in the YSK area. Only one key was needed to complete the level, but both were acquired through enigmatic and intricate procedures, more suitable for secrets than normal progression. Each switch behind coloured bars opened the way to the northern area, but on the OPPOSITE side of the level, requiring an extra-long, boring stroll. That was another annoying tease.

Spoiler

 

 

The blood basin in the north contained a group of harmless Hell Knights and a switch, used to raise those devilish bars by the red door, which forced me to suffer this prolonged scorn disguised as a Doom level. The author was not satisfied with the inflicted pain, so he unleashed about a dozen Arachnotrons in various points of the level, in addition to a couple of closets that would really turn a maxer mad for how far they are from each other. 100% kills made me spend all my shells, rockets, and most of my cells too. I searched the map for leftover supplies and there were none, only an incredibly cryptic and challenging Megasphere secret that I was unable to get, even with the Computer Area Map. I left Bloodlove in miserable conditions, but I was glad it was over. I felt so cheated that I had to cheat in return, so I checked the map in the editor for missing goodies. That Megasphere was not only hidden from sight, but it was also impossible to get unless the player possessed very good movement skills. I barely reached the lift in time using IDCLIP…

[dei_eldren]

A question re Bloodlove:

Spoiler

Can anyone tell me what was the purpose of the secret teleport in the sw-corner of the BK bloodpool? 

 

[TheMightyWhoosh]

27 minutes ago, Book Lord said:

That Megasphere was not only hidden from sight, but it was also impossible to get unless the player possessed very good movement skills. I barely reached the lift in time using IDCLIP…

The Megasphere secret is bloody frustrating for sure! It was made difficult deliberately and I quite like it. But yeah, the map is generally a big bag of bull****. Thing is, with some added ammo and even a slightly better hint of progression would probably have made it bearable at the very least. As I’ve said before, I hate this map and I wish I started from scratch when I was just faffing daily with it. 

 

12 minutes ago, dei_eldren said:

A question re Bloodlove:

  Reveal hidden contents

Can anyone tell me what was the purpose of the secret teleport in the sw-corner of the BK bloodpool? 

 

That is where the Megasphere was housed and is a second path back up to the upper level. It’s a strange little alcove, I don’t like it very much, haha. 

[Biodegradable]

MAP23 - Bloodlove

UV | Continuous | GZDoom and Vanilla+

 

This one begins on a hot note with a somewhat reverse motif where we start off with a bit of an arena fight and then turns into a more classic corridor shooter affair. Despite Whoosh's own admission of hating this map, I can't say I concur with that sentiment. It's probably the most ambitious one of the set so far. The use of height variation was especially good, making the place feel quite big. Even though I found it overall a little humdrum, I respect this one. Progression was a fair bit more straightforward for one, though being used to the cryptic stuff for much of the earlier maps, I found myself overlooking and overthinking and spending more time than I really needed to. But I place that on myself rather than Whoosh's design this time around. I think the big fight at the start was my favourite bit as it was the most memorable moment. Despite there being 5 secrets, I couldn't find any of them, which surprised me because I'd been able to find at least half of them on most other maps. I guess he hid them too well hehe.

 

 

[DJVCardMaster]

MAP23 - Bloodlove (90%K/100%I/60%S):

A big, nonlinear map, convoluted as always, and ammo hungry, still, this one plays really well with the resources shortage problem, and thanks to heavens berserk is getting common. This map could have fit well for the MAP15 slot, as it is one of those big maps with many secrets to find and many things to do, perfect to hide a secret exit here. I feel it is out of place for the last maps that should have a more "hellish" look. Not a bad map though, and you would start expecting maps this difficult or big so far. Serious entry here, and good architechture aswell, guns are pretty hard to find though.
The megasphere secret can only be grabbed by strafe-running, something I wouldn't really do in a normal map, as strafe-running was never intended as a regular mechanic for Doom, good thing, it is a secret, so it can be greenlighted, but I hope strafe-running is not used for mandatory progression at the last straight of the megawad.
I enjoyed this one.

(UV Playthrough - PrBoom+)

Order of preference:

 

Spoiler

 

MAP09
MAP12
MAP22
MAP10
MAP23
MAP08

MAP05
MAP11

MAP01
MAP16
MAP21
MAP20
MAP17
MAP13
MAP04
MAP06
MAP14
MAP19
MAP02
MAP15
MAP07
MAP18
MAP03
MAP31

MAP32 (Unrated)

 

 

[cannonball]

MAP23 - “Bloodlove”

I never struggled for ammo here, or health on the most part. Yes they are scarse but the map is so open and large that you can get a lot of the monsters to fight each other. I must admit the main feeling I got from this one was boredom. Okay I appreciate the big increase in scale and the map looks pretty grand. But at the end of the day it felt like you could never turn up the heat to much and on the flip side the map itself never felt like wanting to kill the player. I picked up the red key and the first opportunity and found and got the blue key. Progression is a little convoluted but you should be aware of the rules of engagement by now. 

I will say this, the BFG is readily available after the red key is fully lowered and there were enough opportunities to really unleash this, mostly against some helpless spiders.

Overall, pretty meh and actually quite unprovocative, strange given how a lot of the maps in this set have been the opposite.

[dei_eldren]

KINDa - MAP24 Frontier in Situ (HNTR, blind, continuous w/ saves): K 100% (74/74), I 100% (36/36), S 66% (4/6), D 0, T 38:59

 

Spoiler

 

The neoclassical style of the set continues, but this time the map doesn't remind me properly anything from the official releases, but rather maps from classic sets Kama Sutra (MAP01 Into the Underground) and Hell Revealed (MAP10 Chambers of War) which by the way both are among my favourite maps from those sets.  The aesthetics are similar, but again updated, as is the gameplay.  The progression must be one of the simplest in the whole WAD so far, but after Bloodlove that's a welcome reprieve, and i think Whoosh has done well in alternating the styles of maps in succession.  The progression is somewhat compensated for by having six secrets, of which i only discovered two thirds - being pretty certain which the remaining two were, but unable to unlock them, despite some effort in trying (about 20min of my playing time is searching for secrets.)  Unfortunately, there was no Soul Sphere or Megasphere, the only significant power-up being Mega Armor, which i felt i needed in the course of the map, not being in perfect health/armor after the last map.

 

 

The map is a sort of a tech-compound, consisting of a main building, an underground installation, and a separate exit area (which is always a nice touch).  Non-continuous players are even offered non-secret both the plasma weapon and the BFG.  The toughest combat i remember being in the underground section, where also the beloved Arch-Vile makes an appearance, in a smallish room with some hitscanners and two Hell Knights, bringing my health down to 16% - closest i came to dying on this map, and certainly would have died without the Mega Armor.

 

 

Once again, there's nothing particularly special about the map - everything just happens to come together to near perfection.  Neither is this meant to say that the level doesn't have finesse and sophistication, but they are present in understated manner, exactly as becomes this most classical of the maps in this set so far.

 

 

Kind of Top Ten:

Spoiler

MAP24 - Frontier in Situ

MAP10 - Mud and Blood

MAP08 - Deux

MAP12 - Monster Monopoly

MAP09 - Death Delivery

MAP05 - Leak

MAP21 - Melancholy

MAP19 - Calculator

MAP20 - Monster HQ

MAP17 - Naive

MAP15 - Blackout

MAP16 - Patino

MAP23 - Bloodlove

MAP06 - Cement

MAP04 - Treehouse

MAP07 - the UAC Project

MAP02 - Hell's Cavity

MAP01 - Go

MAP18 - Doomsday Machine

MAP13 - Blast

MAP14 - Death's Dwelling

MAP22 - Skin

MAP11 - Her Keep

MAP03 - Toxic

MAP31 - Hell's Party