Book Lord Posted October 25, 2021 (edited) On 10/25/2021 at 8:28 AM, TheMightyWhoosh said: Ugh oh, it’s the big map today! Well, big compared to all the others in this megaWAD anyway! It is a bit early to discuss it, but I can anticipate that I strongly disliked it, mostly for the features you underscored in your post. Not enough to make me abandon the playthrough, but in an earlier slot it might have prompted such a choice. It would have been a pity, considering the good maps that follow it. However, do not let any strong criticism on a single level discourage you; as you have seen, the reactions by the DWMC have been uneven on many of your creations. There was good potential in this megaWAD and if you are planning to rework it again (Kinda 3.0), or release new material in the future, you can only improve by knowing other people ideas and preferences. Edited October 26, 2021 by Book Lord 2 Share this post Link to post
TheMightyWhoosh Posted October 25, 2021 49 minutes ago, Book Lord said: It is a bit early to discuss it, but I can anticipate that I strongly disliked it, mostly for the features you underscored in your post. Not enough to make me abandon the playthrough, but in an earlier slot it might have prompted such a choice. It would have been a pity, considering the good maps that follow it. However, do not let any strong criticism on a single level discourage yourself; as you have seen, the reactions by the DWMC have been uneven on many of your creations. There was good potential in this megaWAD and if you are planning to rework it again (Kinda 3.0), or release new material in the future, you can only improve by knowing other people ideas and preferences. I’ll post my thoughts and feelings about KINDa and future projects at the end of the month, but I will say that although the criticism has been understandably brutally honest, this has really, really helped me understand what Doomers generally enjoy when they tackle a Doom map, so I feel in future, I can create maps that are far more enjoyable! 8 Share this post Link to post
Biodegradable Posted October 25, 2021 26 minutes ago, TheMightyWhoosh said: although the criticism has been understandably brutally honest, this has really, really helped me understand what Doomers generally enjoy when they tackle a Doom map, so I feel in future, I can create maps that are far more enjoyable! That's what we like to hear, fam. You have a great deal of potential to create some awesome stuff and I'm genuinely curious to see what you share with us in the future. 3 Share this post Link to post
dei_eldren Posted October 25, 2021 (edited) KINDa - MAP26 Monstrous (HNTR, blind, continuous w/ saves): K 100% (185/185), I 91% (52/57), S 100% (6/6), D 2, T ~1h14m Spoiler i'm in awe, and don't know where to begin or what exactly to say - it's hard to collect my thoughts of the experience. i can imagine the effort and work gone into both the design and its execution, but that effort has paid off. In short, this is one of the best maps i've ever played - definetely in my real Top Ten. Absolutely daunting in its expansiveness, yet so playable and intuitive in its design - there were times when i needed to 'trust the mapper' (such as with the lava section, but also with some teleports etc.) and every time a situation resolved itself. Aesthetically it has much of Heretic in it, in fact, it plays very much like one, too, which translates to the map being gorgeous, helping with the immersion into it. i don't often like very long maps, because they have to be very very good not to overstay their welcome, and i've even stated that in my opinion a mapper should be able to make his point without his map inflating in size, but this map would make no sense were it shorter - the length allows it the breadth to make the location relevant. i love Eternal Doom, perhaps more in concept than for what it actually is, but some of the best maps in this WAD have been exactly what i love about ED, without the annoying bits - and the exactly the can be said in regards to TNT Evilution. i'd be really happy with a full MegaWAD of maps of the length, quality, and concept, as the five longest maps in this set so far have been. i've very much enjoyed just about every map in this set, some of the shorter maps also are inspired, but it's the longer and more challenging ones - those that are a combination of ED and TNT - that define this set for me. My favourite part of the map was the maze before Cyberdemon, with the dreadful attack of the Barons - i'm not sure they have ever been used for better effect. i also enjoyed all the optional parts, such as the small RK puzzle and area. The entrance to the lava section had a very vicious ambush Cacos, which killed me. i was able to net all 6/6 secrets, most of them while playing, saving the Soul Sphere for the end (needed the Megasphere while playing), when i went to search out the last few enemies and loot everything i had left behind. Unfortunately, i had the RK but wasted plasma on the Cybie before pressing the RK switch... would've loved to use that! My second death was by the Cyberdemon upon my first earlier meeting with him, from a different direxion. i have to also mention the BK area - first of all, obtaining it is one of those instances that required trusting the mapper, and after that it was very intuitive - i've found the worst thing one can do in these levels is to let one's head run away and start thinking of how undeicipherable the progression might be. Usually it's actually quite reasonable. i figured that out long time ago, since MAP03 i think, but putting it into practice isn't always so simple... The isolated section of the hallways was very atmospheric, and doubly so when it turned dark - the Barons gave me a fright. Makes me wish i had given MAP32 a decent chance, judging from everybody's reviews discounting a few aspects it was a really good one. Pt2: Spoiler Kind of Top Ten: Spoiler MAP26 - Monstrous MAP24 - Frontier in Situ MAP25 - Her Company MAP10 - Mud and Blood MAP08 - Deux MAP12 - Monster Monopoly MAP09 - Death Delivery MAP05 - Leak MAP21 - Melancholy MAP19 - Calculator MAP20 - Monster HQ MAP17 - Naive MAP15 - Blackout MAP16 - Patino MAP23 - Bloodlove MAP06 - Cement MAP04 - Treehouse MAP07 - the UAC Project MAP02 - Hell's Cavity MAP01 - Go MAP18 - Doomsday Machine MAP13 - Blast MAP14 - Death's Dwelling MAP22 - Skin MAP11 - Her Keep MAP03 - Toxic MAP31 - Hell's Party Edited October 26, 2021 by dei_eldren : add pt2, D 2, couple small points added, abt the BK area 2 Share this post Link to post
MtPain27 Posted October 25, 2021 I hate to have to do this, but I'm going to bow out for this month. I was absorbed in a sibling's wedding this weekend, and Dean of Doom/real work are really crunching the last seven days of this month. I might return to this thread with some thoughts on maps 21-30 some time in November. In the meantime, I'd like to drop a vote for +++Good Morning Phobos by sincity2100. Great set of action-centric maps that not enough people know about. 10 Share this post Link to post
TheMightyWhoosh Posted October 25, 2021 24 minutes ago, dei_eldren said: KINDa - MAP26 Monstrous (HNTR, blind, continuous w/ saves): K 100% (185/185), I 91% (52/57), S 100% (6/6), T ~1h14m Reveal hidden contents i'm in awe, and don't know where to begin or what exactly to say - it's hard to collect my thoughts of the experience. i can imagine the effort and work gone into both the design and its execution, but that effort has paid off. In short, this is one of the best maps i've ever played - definetely in my real Top Ten. Absolutely daunting in its expansiveness, yet so playable and intuitive in its design - there were times when i needed to 'trust the mapper' (such as with the lava section, but also with some teleports etc.) and every time a situation resolved itself. Aesthetically it has much of Heretic in it, and that just translates to the map being gorgeous, helping with the immersion into it. i don't often like very long maps, because they have to be very very good not to overstay their welcome, and i've even stated that in my opinion that a mapper should be able to make his point without his map inflating in size, but this map would make no sense were it shorter - the length allows it the breadth to make the location relevant. i love Eternal Doom, perhaps more in concept than for what it actually is, but some of the best maps in this WAD have been exactly what i love about ED, without the annoying bits - and the exactly the can be said in regards to TNT Evilution. i'd be really happy with a full MegaWAD of maps of the length, quality, and concept, as the five longest maps in this set so far have been. i've very much enjoyed just about every map in this set, some of the shorter maps also are inspired, but it's the longer and more challenging ones - those that are a combination of ED and TNT - that define this set for me. My favourite part of the map was the maze before Cyberdemon, with the dreadful attack of the Barons - i'm not sure they have ever been used for better effect. i also enjoyed all the optional parts, such as the small RK puzzle and area. i was able to net all 6/6 secrets, most of them while playing, saving the Soul Sphere for the end (needed the Megasphere while playing), when i went to search out the last few enemies and loot everything i had left behind. Unfortunately, i had the RK but wasted plasma on the Cybie before pressing the RK switch... would've loved to use that! Makes me wish i had given MAP32 a decent chance, judging from everybody's reviews discounting a few aspects it was a really good one. Kind of Top Ten: Reveal hidden contents MAP26 - Monstrous MAP24 - Frontier in Situ MAP25 - Her Company MAP10 - Mud and Blood MAP08 - Deux MAP12 - Monster Monopoly MAP09 - Death Delivery MAP05 - Leak MAP21 - Melancholy MAP19 - Calculator MAP20 - Monster HQ MAP17 - Naive MAP15 - Blackout MAP16 - Patino MAP23 - Bloodlove MAP06 - Cement MAP04 - Treehouse MAP07 - the UAC Project MAP02 - Hell's Cavity MAP01 - Go MAP18 - Doomsday Machine MAP13 - Blast MAP14 - Death's Dwelling MAP22 - Skin MAP11 - Her Keep MAP03 - Toxic MAP31 - Hell's Party PS: i apologize for posting this a little early, but i'm out for the evening and don't want to have to write this again in case something goes wrong with the computer before i get back. It's 26th in Asia already... Thanks mate! I’m really glad you enjoyed this one. It’s a personal highlight too. Will watch your videos later tonight! Just now, MtPain27 said: I hate to have to do this, but I'm going to bow out for this month. I was absorbed in a sibling's wedding this weekend, and Dean of Doom/real work are really crunching the last seven days of this month. I might return to this thread with some thoughts on maps 21-30 some time in November. In the meantime, I'd like to drop a vote for +++Good Morning Phobos by sincity2100. Great set of action-centric maps that not enough people know about. Thanks for playing the majority of maps, Mr Pain. I’m a subscriber to your channel, so I’ve always had a hunch that perhaps KINDa isn’t your cup of tea; however your honesty with these maps has taught me a few lessons regarding mapping, for sure. 7 Share this post Link to post
Salt-Man Z Posted October 25, 2021 (edited) 4 hours ago, TheMightyWhoosh said: I’ll post my thoughts and feelings about KINDa and future projects at the end of the month, but I will say that although the criticism has been understandably brutally honest, this has really, really helped me understand what Doomers generally enjoy when they tackle a Doom map, so I feel in future, I can create maps that are far more enjoyable! My advice (for what it's worth!) would be to keep the criticisms in mind, and apply them to future projects as you desire, but never feel beholden to them! Make the WADs that you want to make, not the WADs everyone else wants! I know that especially during these Club plays (and in critiquing anything, really) it's a whole lot easier to remember and write down the specific things you disliked in a map than those you did like, even if the latter far outnumbers the former. If I wasn't playing this for the Club, I feel like I would eventually* finish the mapset at my own pace, say to myself, "That was pretty good!", and move on to the next thing. I've definitely been enjoying it on the whole! (*Though to be 100% fair, without the Club around for discussion, the yellow key in MAP32 might have been a showstopper, at which point I might just abandon the WAD.) 6 Share this post Link to post
Doritos420 Posted October 25, 2021 8 hours ago, FragsBunny said: Judgment is still RC1, the death exit on MAP06 is broken, don't pick this until the final release! Thanks for the heads up 0 Share this post Link to post
DJVCardMaster Posted October 25, 2021 MAP25 - Her Company (89%K/68%I/83%S): This would be my pick for the best map yet if it wasn't for the many problems it has (At this point well known). Nice architechture, it feels like something from E3/E4 combined, with something from Dario Casali and Sandy Petersen here and there. One of the mapping sins I found here, is the crusher room at the blue door room, just awful, lowers some points. It is still enjoyable, though, at least from a "continuous" gameplay perspective, but I don't know if this would work by pistol starting. The best this map has to offer may be of course its looks, it really looks well. The map felt at times like Speed from Plutonia, I think it is the feel the author wanted to give to us. (UV Playthrough - PrBoom+)Order of preference: Spoiler MAP09 MAP12 MAP22MAP25 MAP10 MAP23 MAP08 MAP05 MAP11 MAP01 MAP16 MAP21 MAP20 MAP17 MAP13 MAP04 MAP06 MAP14 MAP19 MAP02 MAP24 MAP15 MAP07 MAP18 MAP03 MAP31 MAP32 (Unrated) I'm rushing through all these maps, so if MAP26 is as large as people say it is, I may skip it. 1 Share this post Link to post
FistMarine Posted October 25, 2021 MAP21: Melancholy Interesting map. It wasn't as bad as I thought it will be, with radiation suits provided in a good number, since the encounters themselves weren't that bad at all. I ended up doing a bit of reloading at end (when grabbing the last few items/bonuses I left behind) JUST to figure out where is that last damn item in the level. It wasn't until I took a quick look in ZDoom with cheats (GOD, FLY, FREEZE, NOCLIP) and saw using IDDT and the sprites shown on automap option, there is a non-secret MEGASPHERE inside one of those slime pillars later in the map (before you get teleported to the last area). I have no idea how you were meant to correctly get that one but upon watching dei_eldren's video, he only stumbled upon it by accident and grabbed it with the "grab glitch" which is what I ended up doing too. Because I simply couldn't figure out another way and I figured I rather finish remaining maps as fast as I can (with the usual 100% completion), considering I'm still a bit behind and prefer finally catching up. And I didn't mind doing the grab glitch as an exception this time. And I also found the invulnerability secret (which is the same secret that counts twice, one with finding the secret teleporter and second with the pillar where invul sphere was standing) near end, which helped a bit in the final room. Even though I haven't dropped below 150% health and armor or so in the whole map, I appreciate very much the megasphere I grabbed specially for the next level because the bonuses weren't enough to fully restore missing health and armor but still very appreciated to have bonuses that can repair those lost couple of health/armor points at times. It feels satisfying to grab many bonuses at once and get the yellow tint on screen for a few seconds. Overall, it wasn't too bad (and I was lucky enough to grab the red skull key earlier before going down in acid) but I think some of the radiation suits could have been moved in the acid rather than standing in some of those safe rooms, as I think I ended up grabbing one of suits a bit earlier than I wanted to. MAP22: Skin First, I want to thank the person for mentioning that Berserk can't be grabbed if you drop down from beginning (and it's only 3 items in the whole map anyway), so I grabbed it before I dropped down, even if it was from getting pushed from an imp fireball while I was standing and concentrating to kill the monsters from the beginning teleporter. I wouldn't have wanted to end up with an item missing and then find out it's unreachable anymore! :P As for the map, it has a hot start at beginning that did get me a bit unprepared (so I ended up switching weapons for some of enemies, chaingun to SSG to shotgun and so on) and as a result, I took a bit of damage at times until my health and armor dropped to around 133% and clear the rooms but after that, the whole map went smooth and it indeed, design wise, it reminded me of some of the late maps from Skulltiverse. The archvile is in the center of the map and it can be quite tricky to reach with the many monsters surrounding the place, so make sure you first clear those monsters serving as the shield for the archvile, then focus on the archvile. The yellow key ambush wasn't difficult at all, though I ended up timing the elevators and grabbing the yellow key while making my quick escape (instead of standing on ground level) and then stand on the starting area, while monsters started teleporting. I ended up running in circles and doing a bit of infighting from the safe place, as well as clearing this part without any damage (and punching the last spectre), so there's that! I just chose the safer approach as always. Then I looked for the last 4 monsters which turned out to be cacodemons that were hiding behind walls and the hidden switch, which is the solution to the MEGASPHERE secret! And of course again thanks for that other hint with the teleporter leading directly to exit without any way to go back, so I grabbed everything before exiting. Fun, short and straightforward level. I liked this one. MAP23: Bloodlove The only problem I had with this level was that it was fairly confusing at times. I got the red and blue skull keys without any problem but the yellow one I just couldn't figure out until I watched dei_eldren's video, only to find out I missed a switch behind a pillar that was the solution to reach the yellow skull. The hardest part is at beginning which features arachnotrons, barons and other nasties hidden across the large bloody room. The problem is that at one point I shot a rocket close to an arachnotron at a distance of 1-2 meters while I was strafing and the rocket blast still damaged me for about 40-60 health/armor points lost, almost as if I stand very close to the explosion. I hope there wasn't a barrel nearby or something (I always make sure to blow up all the barrels when I can, to avoid situations where a barrel can explode near you because an enemy managed to shoot it) but despite that mistake, I was careful when playing in the map and never went below 100% health. In fact, my health stopped exactly at 100% (before I got the yellow key) after the last time I took damage from when I bumped into a shotgunner and imp that were below me. Strangely enough, while I was looking to get that yellow key before checking out the solution, I accidentally ended up getting into the MEGASPHERE secret, which took a few tries to get into, but it was by no means impossible to reach if you strafe and go as fast as you can. So I reloaded save when I grabbed the megasphere because I didn't need at that time. You know I prefer saving it for the end of level for a reason. :P Besides the megasphere secret which I found by accident, I couldn't figure out the rest secrets until near end of map (I did, however, notice a different pillar on automap, the one that contained shell box and didn't think to find its different texture and press on it to lower it), I wanted to get the invulnerability in preparation for the last fight but after searching for a few minutes, I saved, quit and checked out a couple of videos, including Biodegradable's video. He showed how to get the invulnerability and that way I managed to get it, expecting that monsters spawn into that arena, so invulnerability will help me here. Instead, they spawned across those rooms, so the invulnerability was half-effective but still appreciated and clearing this part without any damage too (while being careful for remaining couple of monsters after invul expired), considering things could have went wrong at any point. I ended up using a bit more cells than I wanted but at least I still have a good amount of shells left, considering I don't have too many bullets/rockets/cells left. The ammo is definitely scarce at times and I try my best to spend my ammo wisely, to avoid situations where I'm running out of ammo. As mentioned before, there's 5 secrets in total and it has already been pointed how to get megasphere and that secret shell box. But what about the rest? Invulnerability is reachable from pressing that switch in the last room and then quickly running back to see lift temporary lowered. Then the automap (that is also the key to unlock the remaining secret) I guess it is similarly lowered at same time from the same switch, so you have to take multiple trips to get it. Then immediately go to the next platform to get shell box and rockets or whatever else it contained. Overall the map was ok in my opinion (on the continuous run) but I wish it wasn't as cryptic at times and at same time I'm happy the blood wasn't damaging, otherwise it would have been annoying to navigate. :P Deaths so far: 0 Since I started deleting some of my older attachments, now you can enjoy the screenshots I didn't get to upload Friday of maps 18-20, as well as the recent maps 21-23 I played earlier today. I still try to keep the amount of screenshots low, so I don't end up reaching the upload limit right before I finish the megawad, hehe. Also, not voting just yet because I'm not exactly sure what to vote, I will decide in next few days. There's a few interesting choices overall, but one thing I wanted to vote for, isn't going to win anyway, so I will have to choose wisely... Spoiler 3 Share this post Link to post
Salt-Man Z Posted October 25, 2021 2 minutes ago, FistMarine said: there is a non-secret MEGASPHERE inside one of those slime pillars later in the map (before you get teleported to the last area). I have no idea how you were meant to correctly get that one but upon watching dei_eldren's video, he only stumbled upon it by accident and grabbed it with the "grab glitch" which is what I ended up doing too. Interesting! I noticed while playing MAP21 at one point that I suddenly had 200%/200% (but only as it was being whittled away!) and wondered when I had picked up a megasphere... 0 Share this post Link to post
DisgruntledPorcupine Posted October 26, 2021 MAP25: Her Company UV, pistol start, 1 save 100% kills, 3/6 secrets The title foreshadows a return of the spider mastermind, which is confirmed when you let off a shot in a certain area of the map and hear her cry. The setting this time is a hellish almost city-like area with wooden buildings, and favourite Doom 2 midi of many "Into Sandy's City" provides the backdrop. My 1 save that I did was before the crusher section which... I'll talk about in a moment. This map felt like a struggle between a part of me that really wanted to like it and another part of me that found a few things about it quite aggravating. This map looks quite nice. The architecture is solid and the wooden buildings, blood, and hellish cliffsides are always a winning combo. However, it also has the pitfall of a lot of city-like maps where I found it difficult to recall where I have and haven't been, so lots of pacing about for me. The combat is fine for the most part, but there are way too many sniping imps around. I'm generally fine with these in reasonable doses, but the amount in this map is to the degree that it just kind of feels like busywork, and they aren't even much of a threat if you always keep yourself moving in the outdoor areas. I find they are most tolerable if you save most of them for near the end, or even let the mastermind take care of some of the ones in the cage when she pops in. The ammo balance isn't too tight in this one, but if you dally with the imps too much you can still find yourself starved. Also the crusher part... I usually have a pretty high tolerance for cheap traps, but this one just ain't it. It was fun at first, when you open the door to all those monsters and can rush right at them to trigger the crushers and turn them to paste, but actually getting past them to progress is a pain. I saved beforehand because I didn't really have the patience to figure out the pattern just to have runs end at the crushers. I dig the look and themes of the level a lot, but a few annoyances kind of tarnished the experience for me to be honest. 2 Share this post Link to post
Salt-Man Z Posted October 26, 2021 MAP22: Skin (HMP/continuous/saves) 12:02 | 100% Kills | 66% Items | 100% Secrets Ye Olde Fleshe Mappe. This one has an incredibly nasty start, kind of an "O of Destruction" with a vile in the center and a chaingunners positioned all around the circle. Eventually one can escape down a side passage, grab a foothold, and start cleaning things out from there. That said, I did not have the easiest time doing so! But once I did, things calmed down considerably. I love how grabbing the yellow key dropped half of the walls to the outside, that was very cool (I'm a sucker for that kind of architectural transformation. I did not love how upon initially grabbing the yellow key, I was immediately punched in the back by an ambushin revenant, then immediately rocketed in the face (and killed) when I turned around to face him. I feel dumb that it took so long to discover the megasphere secret, since I had already explored two of the hidden caco alcoves without considering that was a third against the back wall! But it was nice to have leave the map at 200%/200%. I gather the berserk was only accessible from the start (and a quick perusal of comments above confirms it.) A decent level, I think I like it more looking back than I did at the time, though. MAP23: Bloodlove 28:48 | 100% Kills | 97% Items | 80% Secrets Ah, back to techbases again--oh, wait, no it's still blood themed, just...a techbase drowned in blood (!!) I actually dug this map quite a bit. At first, it was almost like a mini-slaughter campaign in a base packed with baddies. Just running around trying to clear some space for myself and not get killed. Both the yellow and blue keys were (again) more obtuse than they needed to be. The blue one in particular was clever, but like, maybe too clever for its own good, which I feel is the failing of much of the progression issues in KINDa. In this blue key example, there are two lifts with switches next to them: the right switch lowers the right lift. But the left lift (atop which sits the blue key) is not lowered by the left switch, instead that switch does something else. But what? It's not at all clear at first, and the puzzle is in the interaction of the switches and lifts, but solving it makes me feel more lucky for stumbling across the solution than smart for intelligently putting the pieces together (even if the solution is as much the latter as the former.) The yellow key is a similar "what does this switch do?" but the first half of that puzzle is finding the switch in the first place! (I don't remember where the red key came from, but I think I may have gotten it first?) Despite this, I still really liked this one, perhaps only because I didn't spend too long banging my head on any on puzzle. I never did figure out how to get the invul sphere, but seeing as how I no longer had a use for it (unlike ammo and, especially, health) I didn't work too hard on it. MAP24: Frontier in Situ 15:18 | 100% Everything This was a bizarre little level, a tiny little house packed with baddies. Make it to the backyard, and suddenly you drop down underground to another, larger, building (still somehow surrounded by grass and sky) that you have to fight your way out of before teleporting back to the beginning and the exit. Not a lot to say about this one. I wasted a lot of health and cells on the early cyberdemon fight, and lost a bit more health to the house full of hitscanners. I was stuck briefly on the all-too-clever switch-that-also-lowers-the-lift-behind-you-at-the-same-time. The second half of the map continued to whittle down my health, and then I was totally unprepared for the ambush at the top of the final elevator, where I lost a good chunk of what little health I had left. An action-packed little romp, if not particularly memorable. 4 Share this post Link to post
Book Lord Posted October 26, 2021 (edited) MAP 26 – Monstrous Doomsday Engine, UV-fast, Continuous, blind run w/saves If anyone besides me thought MAP22-23 were bad, Monstrous will surely make him reconsider his previous evaluations. I should preface that I hate enormous, rambling, long-winded, and labyrinthine Doom levels. Here @TheMightyWhoosh brought map size and switch puzzles to the nth degree, persuaded that a map would be considered a worthy creation just because of its colossal and intimidating appearance. Spoiler It showcased an impressive amount of work, that must be acknowledged. The list of virtues unfortunately ends here, since quantity was all the level had in store. Monstrous remained true to its name and immediately revealed its nature: a mapping monstrosity, a maze of oversized halls, courtyards, tunnels, and caves using almost every type of non-tech texture. The progression was not terribly cryptic considering the size of the map, but after half an hour I had barely explored the accessible areas, without understanding anything about the methods to obtain the objects on display. Spoiler The real weakness of the map was that its size was only a gimmick, and an incredibly worthless one. I could not find a single combat worth mentioning, since every encounter was diluted in the gigantic space and felt eminently unchallenging. The worst nightmare were the hitscanners shooting from miles away, scoring cheap hits while health was scarce and sparsely distributed, as typical for Kinda. Combat equated to a loss of time in Monstrous; a disgraceful outcome, considering that it was still a Doom level. The shortage of resources and the absence of plasma weapons ensured that grindy and boring gameplay awaited the poor pistol starters. Spoiler There were so many oddities to dislike: the mazey, boring corridor stretches that would make you reevaluate the ones in Habitat; the vastness and emptiness of most areas; the accurate detail of certain sections contrasted by the drabness and slapdash of others; the overstretched FIREWALA/FIREBLU1/FIREMAG1 series of tunnels getting darker for an innocuous Bruiser Brothers ambush; the BS chaingunner after the yellow switch; the never-ending hitscanners behind EVERY corner and bend. Spoiler It took me 51 minutes to finally reach the exit, with 94% kills, 67% items and only 16% secrets. A lot of treasures could be uncovered outside the normal progression, including that big stash with the RK at the heart of this mapping abomination. I could not care less, I just wanted it to end. No reward would ever pay back the time spent to find it, and sadly there is no way to get back the hour I lost playing this gibberish. The author can be sure that if this was featured in an earlier slot, it would have been the swan song of my Kinda playthrough. There are only 4 maps left to play, and hopefully there will not be a second Monstrous level to go through. Edited October 26, 2021 by Book Lord 4 Share this post Link to post
Biodegradable Posted October 26, 2021 MAP26 - Monstrous UV | Continuous | GZDoom and Vanilla+ This was a funny map. it's rather intense with the low health aspect rearing its ugly head at full capacity, forcing me to run around the map a lot in desperate search of it, bumbling about riding random lifts and hitting random buttons and just wandering aimlessly in a confused stupor for most of the time. Not that it wasn't fun! This is probably one of the most interesting maps in sometime with its sprawling layout and interconnectivity that had me scratching my head most of the time, but it was the good kind of lost that made me curious as to how to properly navigate my way around the map rather than just being frustrated, grumbling to myself and not feeling like I'm making any progress. Trust me, this was the good kind of lost. I remained intrigued and entertained, if not a tad exhausted by the end of it as the map did give me that, "I'd like to go home now please" vibe. Mind you, it's all satisfying at the end of the day. It's a wacky map and I really enjoyed it. 6 Share this post Link to post
Doritos420 Posted October 26, 2021 Map26 - Monstrous I really don't like this one. Sorry @TheMightyWhoosh but I got to say it, the progression in this one is as cryptic as they come. I have no idea how I completed the level, basically just ran around hitting every switch I could get my hands on and then I would wander back to previously explored places to see if I had activated a lift to lower a key. Very maddening level, made even worse with the huge layout and mazelike design in some areas. I managed to get 5 out of the 6 secrets and killed every enemy except 1 (no idea where they are, could be stuck in a teleporter trap or be part of a secret for all I know). I found the ammo scarcity manageable since you can get the berserk early, but even so I was still short on bullets for a good portion of the map since there was a lot of sniping of distant enemies. I somehow managed to get the BFG and automap secret which made exploring the map a lot easier, but I think the BFG is pretty overkill here, I only ever used it on the cyberdemon and even then there’s the handy crusher switch to take care of him. Very unwieldy level, switch hunts can be fun if levels are smaller so it’s not too confusing what the switch did, but when you activate something and aren't sure what happened in a sprawling map like this it’s just annoying. This map took way too long to beat, and gameplay wise it wasn’t even that challenging. Likely my least liked map. 4 Share this post Link to post
DJVCardMaster Posted October 26, 2021 MAP26 - Monstrous (96%K/91%I/83%S): Monstrous is the size of this map, this would be a Magnum Opus made by Tom Hall if he still were a mapper, tons of paths, forks, rooms, this tried to be a pretty "memorable" map, this tries hard to stand out over the rest of the megawad with its size. The gameplay though, is really slow, and it often feels empty, like if I was playing Doom E2, long-ass corridors, low-tier enemies at most, a cyberdemon at the middle, and rarely there are monsters from the Doom 2's beastiary. I don't know where to place this map, it does some things right, some things wrong, the exit was just there, as always, but it has some few good moments. It really looks memorable, but sadly it lacks the gameplay that would make it stand out more in that regard, and ends falling into the same category as the rest of the maps. I quite enjoyed some bits of it though. (UV Playthrough - PrBoom+)Order of preference: Spoiler MAP09 MAP12 MAP22 MAP25 MAP10 MAP23 MAP08 MAP05 MAP11 MAP01MAP26 MAP16 MAP21 MAP20 MAP17 MAP13 MAP04 MAP06 MAP14 MAP19 MAP02 MAP24 MAP15 MAP07 MAP18 MAP03 MAP31 MAP32 (Unrated) 3 Share this post Link to post
kawadec Posted October 26, 2021 Maps 24 and 25 Map 24 - Frontier in Situ This is one case where I wish I hadn't read other posts about the level ahead of time spoiling what happens with that Cybie at the start. That said, even with that knowledge I still instinctively backed up and fell into that trap, derp. Seemed like every new corner had a lot to deal with, which overwhelmed me more than once. Nothing some grenades and smart movement on take 2 or 3 couldn't handle. The Marauder duels only get easier as we go along, as I start to grasp where the soft openings exist for damage when his eyes don't flash green. And yes, it seems you can chainsaw the hell doggos. Take that info how you will. Had to wander around a bit, but I recognized the utilization of narrow switches early and expected them to be put in any corner anywhere. I guess I'm slowly learning how to get through this wad, heh. Map 25 - Her Company My temptation early-ish on was to hop on up to the upper cliffs to deal with every imp and gargoyle personally, but it seemed that was not always an option, between prison bars and straight-up invisible walls limiting how close I could get to such hordes. It's a good thing Altar of Pain is one of my favorite D64 levels, and because of that I have some patience for shoulder imps. But yeah, plenty of good fights and a nice hell aesthetic. Given how easily the Spiderdemon went down I wonder if maybe I should crank up the heat on myself and turn on fast monsters, maybe even switch to Nightmare for future runs. Not sure if I'm ready for the resulting over-caffeinated Marauders, though. 3 Share this post Link to post
FragsBunny Posted October 26, 2021 (edited) MAP26: Monstrous (100%/85%/100%) 1. Cacodemons no longer flinch 2. Imp projectiles are seekers 3. Imps fire baron of hell projectiles What a monster of a level! It’s quite unusual to see the map as large as this! And with the tune of timeless classic maps of old 90s like Evilution and Eternal Doom, you will spend a lot of time searching for switches and keys. The lone Cyberdemon here is practically a minor character. I killed him with a BFG but as I later found, there was a hidden way to kill him with a crusher. The monster density is quite low despite the map size and as long as use proper weapons to conserve your ammo and explore every nook and cranny, ammunition won’t be a problem. Health, however, will be. I got cornered by cacodemon who could not be pushed back after their card boost and got my health below 10% at least two times. First time, I managed to recover 90% of it through berserk pack. While looking for clues, I somehow managed to find the switch puzzle that awarded me with a mega-sphere, computer map, a new Wild card and the red key. The red key quickly demonstrated its uselessness by activating the crusher where the cyberdemon used to be. But with the computer map at hand, I quickly found my way to the switch to lower the blue key (along with nasty baron ambush) and then to the yellow key (releasing yet four more barons). In the end, despite my initial low health issues, I managed to complete this map in a single go, with all secrets discovered, so I can clearly say that I had a monstrous blast with this one! 4 Share this post Link to post
FragsBunny Posted October 26, 2021 MAP27: Congo Control (100%/98%/60%) 1. Chickens will appear. Avoid killing them at all costs 2. Baron of Hell can carry other monsters 3. Lost soul receive damage one second later The Mighty Whoosh gives his next map quite a confusing name. I mean, are you trying to make a Plutonia-styled map with just stock Doom II textures? The gameplay is hardly like Plutonia, though. It’s more like Doom Core due to the fact that almost all teleport ambushes features chaigunners! And the worst place of such an ambush is where you find the berserk pack! Not only those gunners spawn in flanking spots, accidental pickup of the berserk pack (like in my case) will cause you to be in even greater pain, as you suddenly switch to your fist in the midst of chaingun crossfire. I only discovered the invisibility sphere after they wereall dead. Another nasty chaingun ambush came at me where the red key was – but this time I came prepared with the power of a secret invulnerability to cheese the encounter. This map, while not as big as previous, turned to be a head scratcher for me as well. And during all of that, chickens were wandering all around the map. The auto-aim was turned off, so it was not uncommon to see bullets or projectiles being fired about their heads. Eventually I figured out the order of keys, and after some wall-hugging, managed to make the red key accessible, with other two keys quickly following through. On my way to exit I had to deal with yet another two chaingunner ambushes. Why always chaingunners, and why in the worst possible places? 3 Share this post Link to post
DuckReconMajor Posted October 26, 2021 I played these in advance earlier in the month, sometimes in a fit of rage. Played on skill 1 MAP20 - skill 1 It's probably just me but this map stands out as being very aesthetically ugly, something very rare for this mapset. The Gotcha! fight and the caves immediately after were enjoyable though. MAP21 - skill 1 Loved this one. Wide open spaces, good view of the sky. MAP22 - skill 1 Another good one. The caco room with the sp_face was great. I did get lost thinking i was done with the middle area MAP23 - skill 1 Big memorable and nice-looking map that's marred a bit by some frustrating navigation issues. MAP24 - skill 1 Right off the bat a map that inspires intense anger upon finding secrets when all you want to do is move forward. The lift that lowers behind you in the control room is something that should be a secret, and has no business being required for progression. Then at the end I consulted Doom builder again as I had no idea some pillar came down to reveal a teleporter. MAP25 - skill 1 Very pretty map that seemed engineered just for me to get lost. By that I mean idk why i missed that blue key i wasnt running around that side of the map i guess. The crusher room is magnificent. MAP26 Big and glorious, this map earned its runtime to me as it was lengthened by epic scope rather than annoying switch hunts. gigantic mess of videos open at your own risk Spoiler 5 Share this post Link to post
dei_eldren Posted October 26, 2021 (edited) KINDa - MAP27 Congo Control (HNTR, blind, continuous w/ saves): K 98% (132/134), I 96% (56/58), S 100% (5/5), D 0, T 59:13 Spoiler i worried for nothing that after MAP26 the next level would feel insignificant. While this is not the monster the previous map was, MAP27 still contains quite a bit of area to explore. As in so many levels, the start is quiet and the action escalates after a little while as one goes through the various hallways. rooms and outside areas of this large sprawling industrial facility. The design is expectedly complex and intricate, and whilst i had two problems with the progression, the first one was definitely on myself, as i failed to notice a readily available lift near the beginning, and was for a long time absolutely stuck, having gone through all the available places, convinced that the RK would somehow be obtained from the western section - so i spent a lot of time on useless false leads before obtaining a single key. The progression was in fact quite simple as i surmised very early on that required order is RK -> YK -> BK. When i had opened up the area that lead to the RK, grabbing it again was not a simple task, and this is my only real complaint of the level. There's no reason to not simply let the player get the key without a gimmick - for me this was one of the few really dickish moves by the author. In the end, i'm not even sure what allowed me to take it, perhaps it was one of the panels in the room, or perhaps it was a linedef, or perhaps it was something else. Also the YK was protected by a little puzzle but that one was fun and fair. The combat is largely again incidental, which i always enjoy, but there's also a few serious ambushes, such as grabbing the RL upon a very untrustworthy pedestal, or when pressing a switch in the area behind the YK door, as a lot of Chaingunners - who were the main threat in this level - begin teleporting in. There was a separate little arena to open the path to the RK, where also Chaingunners started coming in around me when pressing the switch. The BK was also easy to find, but studying the map in this WAD is crucial. i got all the secrets - mostly while playing, as i found them many of them easier than how to release the RK!, grabbing the easy Soul Sphere while playing, and saving the Megasphere for the end. And i really enjoyed being able to put the secret Invulnerability to good use with the Chaingunners at the RK section. i'm not sure if Congo in the title is reference to the illustrious opener of Plutonia, but not being a big fan of Plutonia at least i failed to detect any reference - unless it's the Chaingunners! Regardless, this map was again fantastic, and my oversight, nor the unnecessary gimmick with the RK, do not detract from its quality - the inventiveness of the design and the dedication of its execution. i appreciate WADs where nothing is done half-assed, where there's commitment to the original concept and vision. That doesn't always translate to the WAD becoming a favourite of mine, but in this WAD those qualities combine with a style that is my most preferred type. Kind of Top Ten: Spoiler MAP26 - Monstrous MAP24 - Frontier in Situ MAP25 - Her Company MAP27 - Congo Control MAP10 - Mud and Blood MAP08 - Deux MAP12 - Monster Monopoly MAP09 - Death Delivery MAP05 - Leak MAP21 - Melancholy MAP19 - Calculator MAP20 - Monster HQ MAP17 - Naive MAP15 - Blackout MAP16 - Patino MAP23 - Bloodlove MAP06 - Cement MAP04 - Treehouse MAP07 - the UAC Project MAP02 - Hell's Cavity MAP01 - Go MAP18 - Doomsday Machine MAP13 - Blast MAP14 - Death's Dwelling MAP22 - Skin MAP11 - Her Keep MAP03 - Toxic MAP31 - Hell's Party Edited October 26, 2021 by dei_eldren 3 Share this post Link to post
FistMarine Posted October 26, 2021 (edited) On 10/25/2021 at 8:11 PM, Salt-Man Z said: Interesting! I noticed while playing MAP21 at one point that I suddenly had 200%/200% (but only as it was being whittled away!) and wondered when I had picked up a megasphere... Yeah, I am still wondering whether that megasphere was meant to be picked up that way by accident or there was a way to lower those slime pillars and pick it up normally. I guess TMW will let us know soon. Anyway, the progress for earlier today: MAP24: Frontier in Situ Reading the comments earlier helped me prepare for the Cyberdemon that appears right at start! You open the door with the Cyberdemon and he will teleport right behind you! Thankfully I first selected the BFG, opened the door and took few steps back and he teleported, then I started firing the 3 BFG shots at close range which was a bit risky, he still managed to survive, so after emptying the few remaining plasma cells, I switched to SSG and after a few SSG blasts, he was finally put down. At least I didn't eat any rockets, so I carried on with the level as if the cyber didn't exist in first place and got rewarded with another BFG. Interestingly, I didn't realize how to reach that switch, I didn't realize the lift for that platform also lowers the lift for the platform containing the switch. So I ended up running in circles, finding the SSG secret (this one I found first before I entered the next rooms), plasma and cell pack secret and the blue armor that I DID NOT want at that time because I still had around 190% armor, so why would I want to grab the armor when I don't need it? :P I checked dei_eldren's video and then realized how to reach that switch (yes I first tried to shoot it and nothing happened). After that, progression was clear. There were less than 100 monsters even on UV skill. There's 2 archviles (one in next room and another one halfway through the map). The trickier part was when you took the lift and then get surrounded by a few barons, chaingunners, etc. I was lucky to take the lift down and then somewhat waste a BFG blast which vaporized most enemies in the NEXT room instead, heh. After that, I was waiting for barons and other monsters to come down the lift, so I can kill them and progress through the map. Although I rarely took damage, the RNG really had to ruin things a bit near end when the last chaingunner that shot me with 2 bullets (each rolling 15 dmg) and one of cacodemons at end hitting me with a projectile doing 40 dmg, therefore I ended up with 157% health at end. At least the blue armor protected me well from half damage and there was another one waiting for me from that secret area earlier. But no soulsphere/megasphere meant I had to be careful to not take too much damage, since health is always precious! :P The 6 secrets are mostly easy to find (Super Shotgun, Plasma/Cell Pack, Blue Armor, Box of Bullets, Medikit and Backpack) but the hardest ones to reach are those two (medkit and backpack) where Revenants were staying earlier. You have to approach those two lifts after where bars were unlocked earlier and then go back, the lifts temporary lower and you can "collect" the two secrets. A map this short late in game must mean one thing: that the next one or two levels must be much longer! MAP25: Her Company And now for one of the longer maps in the wad! Difficulty wise, it's not too bad, although there was a certain part that was the most difficult in the map (and entire wad so far). Yeah, I finally died once in the crusher section, I have no idea how you were supposed to get to the other side safely but it seems I got through fine on the second try. Maybe on the first try I ended up going on the opposide corner and ended up trapped and crushed? At least you don't have to go through that bullshit section again once you grab the red key (which also spawns the SPIDER MASTERMIND! as the title of map may have given the hint away) I got stuck once and was about to check one of the videos/walkthroughs in the thread, until I found out myself that I had unlocked the blue key from pressing the switch earlier. The said blue key when picked up, spawns a few zombies and imps after a bit delayed time, so you can just grab it and wait outside and handle the monsters behind cover with your shotgun/chaingun. There were also many imps on ledges that could be killed with shotgun/chaingun sniping and advancing slowly. They weren't that dangerous to me, just slightly annoying and distracting. I had to be a bit careful overall since I entered level with 157% health (compared to the usual 200% I end up most levels with) but even then my health barely got to 84% minimum after fighting the Spider, so as always, the blue armor I entered level with me did its nice job properly of protecting me. There is another blue armor given right at beginning of the map that is best saved for the end and even a Soulsphere secret to be found, so you can get back to 200% health and armor easily, at end of level. Too bad that death had to ruin my flawless run of the megawad so far, would have been cool to be the first ever custom Doom 2 megawad that I beat without dying once (on top of the sweet 100% completion that I worked hard for). With that said, one death is still much better than the 80+ deaths I had to suffer in the entire Skulltiverse megawad, that one was really hard by comparison (and still felt one of the hardest megawads I've ever played), meanwhile KINDA seems to me a bit similar to Doom 2 or TNT Evilution in terms of difficulty, only having a few tricky spots and combat is mostly on the easier side. Then again, I played UV continuously, I don't think I would have gotten too far if I pistol started each level. :P As for the secrets, once again there's SIX secrets: -SoulSphere (in the building that had few monsters) -Door that requires to be shot which leads to a secret teleporter (guarded by imps that you may have killed earlier) that sends you to Rocket Launcher platform (secret 3) -Rocket Launcher (reachable from secret 2) -Stimpack (in one of rooms after crushers, yep a single stimpack) -Misaligned wall near red key, contains a chaingunner and a few health and armor bonuses -Backpack behind one of misaligned walls near exit MAP26: Monstrous Wow, what a MONSTROUS level (pun intended). It took me OVER an hour to complete (one hour and half to be exact) because I spent so much fucking time figuring out how to get the last few secrets, monsters and items, even with help of ZDoom's cheating to see where they were exactly! In fact I spent an extra 30 or more minutes JUST to look for the LAST item (or rather penultimate item, because the other was the megasphere that I saved right for the end) which turned out to be an ARMOR BONUS in a dark corner (near the teleporter that lets you backtrack, once you drop down into that hole near end of map) Reaching the exit wasn't too bad in my opinion and neither were the challenges presented in the level, considering I spent the first 30 or so minutes taking no damage, keeping my 200% health and armor intact. No, the real challenge comes from the following three things: -Trying to find the remaining secrets and monsters/items contained inside them after you already reached the exit -Trying to find the very last item that is easy to miss (good luck trying to find that armor/health bonus you missed earlier, though most players don't care about getting 100% items) -Not falling asleep due to boredom Additionally, even after I killed all monsters, I still heard some demons around. Probably a lost soul spawned outside of map from the pain elemental I killed earlier close to a wall. I really hate this glitch with lost souls getting outside of map in DOS executables and classic ports but at least they don't count for extra kills. This is fixed in ZDoom ports (where they also count as actual enemies) at least but since I prefer using the more classic ports, I have to live with some vanilla limitations. I guess that lost soul was haunting me in this map or something, since it felt like the map was never ending. I just wanted that sweet 100% completion! :P At least the Cyberdemon wasn't too hard to kill, since I managed to get him infight with those revenants and distract him for long enough to BFG him in the back, so I don't have to deal with him later. But then later I realized that the red key was used for that switch nearby that activates a crusher over that Cyberdemon...that I just killed earlier. What a pointless reward! Might have been helpful for the pistol starters, though. And the rest of map really wasn't too bad, as I didn't get below 130% health or so. I don't know how to explain exactly how to get all SIX secrets (once again) but I will say that some that seem unreachable at first, become reachable from finding FOUR hidden switches on the pillars after you traverse lava. The other three get revealed gradually upon pressing each in a specific order, then once you pressed all 4, one switch earlier (behind some rocks) should become accessible. That switch counts as a secret too. There is an easy to find Blue Armor (inside that lava place, look for a misaligned wall, BTW lava only does 5 damage, so don't worry about traversing the lava too much, considering you are given enough rad suits) that I found at first but only grabbed at end because I still had plenty blue armor at that time, plus this map also contains a secret soulsphere, so you shouldn't have problems with health and armor! Other secret was a shotgun + health/armor bonuses, accessible from second switch (the first switch spawned an archvile and advanced the map) The central secret (red key, megasphere, computer area map and other goodies) are reachable from pressing one of those hidden switches. There was a green armor secret inside an area behind a lift and a soulsphere secret mentioned earlier, that becomes available by finding the hidden switch. I wish I could explain better how to find the secrets to help other fellow completionists. This is all the information I can give for now, hope it helps. I think that's all I can say about this map. Ok map, though also really long. Let's hope this was the longest map in the whole megawad! There's just 4 maps left. Deaths so far: 1 (MAP25) Spoiler Edited October 26, 2021 by FistMarine 3 Share this post Link to post
Book Lord Posted October 26, 2021 MAP 27 – Congo Control Doomsday Engine, UV-fast, Continuous, blind run w/saves Take 1/3 of Command Control, 1/3 of Congo, and 1/3 of unpredictable mapping ideas from @TheMightyWhoosh, mix and shake them well, and you get Congo Control. This description gives a good global idea of the map, but does not do justice to its many qualities, which largely surpassed the defects. Playing this after Monstrous was like a time-travel, or a WAD dissociative identity disorder, since it was a totally inverse experience that I found invigorating. Spoiler I guess this is one of the author’s most mature creations, as shown by the accurate choice of textures, inspired by the cited maps but rearranged in interesting ways, and by the effective use of lighting. Since the starting area, the crepuscular tone of the outdoor zones was contrasted by strong beams of light irradiated by well-crafted sources. Milo Casali’s curvy architecture was also replicated with zeal, offering a visually nice level with an open layout. Spoiler The combat featured some Plutonia archetypes, most notably the chaingunner teleport ambushes. The closet trap by the rocket launcher had a deviousness you would not expect from Kinda, especially if you retreat into the sludge pool to be greeted by a pop-up Mancubus, as I did. Entering the base was also not that easy: after a Pain Elemental close-up, several hitscanners approached me, but I could not just shoot from the door since it was in the line of sight of two very distant Revenants, who pounded me with their slow rockets. I took the side path through the warehouse and the curvy hallways, where I found the Megasphere secret signposted with the evil eye. Spoiler After dispatching the Revenants, Arachnotrons and Cacodemons by the YSK, I retraced my steps to the entrance and went south. I reached a round arena which was the ideal setting for an ambush. The chaingunners came in very slowly, but I inadvertently choked one spawn spot, so I was surprised by a couple of them shooting me when I thought it was over. The secret Blur Artifact was not conveniently placed, and I found it too late. Pushing the switch did not lower any of the keys seen so far, but opened a UAC computer lab instead, where I was killed by another chaingunner trap which caught me unprepared. I discovered the RSK but did not know how to acquire it, so I wandered a bit until I passed by the YSK and tried to grab it. Done! I returned to the yellow door, gained the BSK, backtracked to the start and into a second computer lab, which was lightly guarded. To unlock the teleporter to the exit I must press a switch, releasing another dangerous squad of 20 chaingunners in four different spots of the computer room. The first time they nailed me for good. By the exit a fourth chaingunner teleport was devised, and honestly this was neither dangerous nor opportune, considering how much of the same medicine had been administered. Spoiler There was a prison area with some rooms I could not enter. I thought they were optional and unlocked by the RSK; in fact, they were mandatory parts that I skipped with my key grab. The RSK was granted after operating the two computers in the same room, a realistic solution that was rather counter-intuitive in the context (a switch revealed the key closet, two chairs hid the computers; I just thought I must look elsewhere). This progression problem, the abuse of chaingunners beyond tolerability, and the haphazard ammo & weapon distribution for pistol starters made me think twice before saying Congo Control was an excellent work. It surely was one of the best maps in Kinda so far; visually stunning, and enjoyable for many reasons. 3 Share this post Link to post
Veinen Posted October 26, 2021 Map21: Melancholy video Eeeehhh. Stupid tight ammo balance if you take the quickest route through the map, until the very end where you can restock with the teleporting Sarges' droppings. The map isn't much more generous with health either but apart from the first few minutes I found this to be quite easy even with low health. Learned of the Megasphere only after reading a few comments here but don't really need it so it doesn't matter that I missed it. There's more than enough radiation suits available if you know what to do so at least that's not an issue, nor do I remember having any problem with that during my blind playthrough. This is again a map where combat feels somehow slow-paced and inconsequential at times as you're chipping away at enemies that you really don't need or particularly want to kill, but driven by completionism (and the damned UV-max ruleset...) you do it anyway (the perched Imps or the random Arach trio rising from the ground, for example). The YK teleport ambush, if left alone to trickle in while doing other stuff, usually leads to a few monsters wandering around the nukage corridors which just means you need to double-check every potential hiding spot before proceeding to the final area. Visually it's competent as usual, as in Toxic I like the nukage drains and flows here as well and the mechanics for progress are simple but neat. The rocky outdoor areas a nice contrast to the green and brown of the base, not only in colours but in scale too. They do feel a bit empty though with the amount of enemies within. Doing the demo wasn't quite as engaging as I would've hoped and with me falling behind ever further I didn't spend very much time with that. 2 Share this post Link to post
TheMightyWhoosh Posted October 26, 2021 52 minutes ago, FragsBunny said: Why always chaingunners, and why in the worst possible places? I agree! I think the chaingunners and fact they can sometimes spawn in too slowly is frustrating. If I was to remake this map (that I don’t particularly like as again, I faffed too much with it), I wouldn’t include these chaingunners. The other major flaw with this map, despite it seeming like a good idea at the time, is… Spoiler The red key! There are two little red key symbols on the consoles in the same room as the red key; however quite often chaingunner corpses end up covering the symbols so you can’t see them! I’m annoyed for anybody that suffers due to this! Regarding the Megasphere in map 21… it was intentionally meant to be picked up that way. 25 minutes ago, FistMarine said: Yeah, I am still wondering whether that megasphere was meant to be picked up that way by accident or there was a way to lower those slime pillars and pick it up normally. I guess TMW will let us know soon 4 Share this post Link to post
TJG1289 Posted October 26, 2021 GZDoom/Blind/UV/Continuous/Saves Map 25 - HER COMPANY 100% kills secrets Time: 17:02 A nice blood and wood themed map here. Kinda reminds me of the IWADs in style a bit. The incidental encounters here aren't too bad, and there's not really any super threatening fight. The toughest part may be the crusher room just past the blue key door. I SSGd a lot of the imps in there before walking in and realizing it's a crusher room. Ran back out before getting squished and realized that I really didn't need to waste shells here. Oh well. Progression in this map was actually pretty straight forward for once. Though I did hit 2 switches, wondered what they did, then figured they probably lowered the blue key. I was right. I also almost skipped the blue key fight. I grabbed the key and headed on out. I was a little bit a way before I heard teleporting. This fight would have been a lot rougher if either the baddies teleported in quicker, or if the walls around the structure lowered. The red key spawns the titular "HER", which is an easy 1-shot when you get back on her level. This may be the first map where I feel the secrets may not have been worth it (a lone stimpack?), considering the BFG isn't one of them. There is at least a rocket launcher and a soul sphere as secrets, so those are good rewards, but not a room with a few health and armor bonuses plus a chaingunner. Not much else to say other than this was a pretty solid outing. I could catch up and do map 26, but seeing people say it's a long one means I might not have enough time today, so I'll do it tomorrow. 3 Share this post Link to post
cannonball Posted October 26, 2021 Map26 - Monstrous A rather horrid experience where I stumbled upon 4 secrets before figuring out how to lower the blue key. The fact this is disguised by other environmental factors meant I lost a solid 20 minutes before literally trying anything and being confronted by a pair of barons. I never really struggled with ammo or health for the most part, again thanks to the secrets. However I guess the late rocket launcher was a bit of a mean move of the author's part. At the end of the day, this will rank way down the list, how the route to the blue key was hidden was to me unnacceptable given it is required for progression. The yellow key was just about passable. The combat throughout was fairly dull with nothing really standing out. 4 Share this post Link to post
Book Lord Posted October 26, 2021 4 hours ago, TheMightyWhoosh said: The other major flaw with this map, despite it seeming like a good idea at the time, is… Hide contents The red key! There are two little red key symbols on the consoles in the same room as the red key; however quite often chaingunner corpses end up covering the symbols so you can’t see them! I’m annoyed for anybody that suffers due to this! Now I see the symbols and the numbers, but I missed them completely during play. Probably without the chairs they could be spotted more easily and corpses won't end up on the consoles as they do on those two chairs. However, as I reported, there are key grabbing issues in some maps that allow skipping a part of the intended progression. Even though they might be a solution to obscure puzzles, like in MAP27, they can also create confusion (MAP13 comes to mind). 1 Share this post Link to post
Doritos420 Posted October 27, 2021 @Book Lord I had a problem with that section too. I noticed the console but when I first tried to interact with it I was standing on top of the console (so I was actually standing behind the linedef and it didn't work). I found you have to stand right in front of the console to activate it. 1 Share this post Link to post
