save spamming while playing

[PsychEyeball]

If the game gives you the option to save, it's not cheating. It's not easy mode either. It just means you don't want to replay a part you already beat.

[Mayomancer]

I save after some big fights, aquiring keys, or other major progress mainly in maps i feel like might drag on for a while. I usually do a 'yolo' type of run the first time around to get an idea of whats going on.

 

That said, i don't really go for quicksaves on-the-fly or am too quick on the reload finger because i find that to be boring.

 

For example, considering how many times i died by the later parts of maps like Eviternity map 19, i'd take ages to beat some stuff, and i feel like it's just not something i'd have fun doing.

[silentzorah]

UV Fast, yes.  UV, no.  Maybe before a key grab, but that's about it.

[Stupid Bunny]

It depends.  If I'm playing short punchy maps within my comfort zone, then I'll usually only save at the beginning of the map.  If they're really long, though, and/or really hard, or if I end up dying at the same spot more than a couple times, then yeah I'll save at whatever logical points I need to.  I don't like savespamming but that's mostly for the practical reason that I don't want to save 0.00001 seconds before a rocket kills me.  And besides, if the only way I can beat part of a map is to save every 2 seconds then I'm clearly in over my head and I'd be better served just to quit or iddqd past whatever part I can't beat.  I don't like doing that, of course, it's always more fun to overcome a challenge and do it the honest way, but at the same time it's not like there's anything riding on me beating a map legit and nobody who matters cares whether I save midlevel or not.  Frankly I don't understand why so many people are allergic to the idea of saving periodically in the middle of a map, but then, to each their own and I sincerely hope they're having fun doing it the way they prefer.

[EANB]

A lot of wads are deliberately unfair and would be very frustrating without saves. Saving also lets lower skilled players enjoy higher difficulty levels.

[Goopychu]

Save spamming is only needed if the wad in question was being unfair on purpose, or the puzzles are a bit too long. and as somebody who had to deal with it crashing, it was only a matter of time before I realized the true purpose of it.

[Ragu]

Playing through Hell Revealed right now and there are a lot of maps where my patience would have exhausted and I would have simply stopped playing were I not saving. I'm sure going through the opening fights for the n-teenth time would help me further polish my skills, but after a certain point I just have to say "alright, I get it". My personal saving philosophy is to only save when things are quiet and I'm safe, like a checkpoint save. Sort of like a bonfire in Dark Souls, I guess. The exception being Icon of Sin levels, because those can get right fucked.

[vanilla_d00m]

It's not about winning or losing.  It's how YOU play the game the way you want.

 

Before playing hardcore mods I wasn't saving like this.  It's just me depending on it too much.  Good video by MtPain27 BTW.. Saving is now fun to do!

[Teo Slayer]

Save spamming is actually good

[BetelgeuseSupergiant]

I use save spamming a lot, as it allows me to play comfortably

[RHhe82]

Naturally it’s not cheating. To conceal your saving and lying about it would be, at least in the competitive scene?

 

I personally have started to avoid saving too often. With harder maps I have to save after difficult encounters, but with original IWADs there’s much less actual need for saves, if at all. But why restrict saving? To test myself, but there’s another thing: it’s more exciting, when there is something (like several minutes of gameplay :P) at stake. And exciting equals fun. Healthy dose of tension and relief equals fun.

 

But that’s only me, and on the other hand: Frustration would set in very soon with harder (than OG Doom) maps if I didn’t save at all. But whatever, no one will ever know how I actually play.

 

One last thought: I wonder if there is a difference between using saves ”moderately” and save spamming? Seems like a very subjective thing, unless you draw the line between no saves at all and one save or more.

Edited October 3, 2021 by RHhe82 : Fixed typos and confusing sentences

[Zulk RS]

7 hours ago, Capellan said:

Games are for fun.

 

Do what you find fun.

 

If saves increase your fun, use them.

 

If saves decrease your fun, don't use them.

 

 

This. I save way too much. Sometimes I'd even reload after taking an imp fireball to the face and being at 197% Health and 197% Armor. It may seem excessive, unfun and annoying to someone watching but it's how I enjoy playing the game. I tried playing a while without saves or by minimizing how much I save but that wasn't fun for me. So I went back to save-scumming harder than ever. Play how you want to play. Unless you're submitting demos or videos for some kind of competition that bans save-scumming, no one is going to care if you play with saves or not and how often you save and when you load.

 

The same can also be applied to "Getting Good". It's awesome to get good at the game, yes, but it's not something you need to push yourself for if you don't enjoy it. Enjoyment and love of Doom takes priority over getting good, not being a scrub or what else have you. Play how you want and how you have the most fun.

 

If you're wondering if it's good that you're saving so much or not, try playing a few maps or playing for a few weeks without saving to see if you enjoy it. If you find it more fun, keep going. If you find it less fun, go back to save-scumming.

[thiccyosh]

I absolutely use saves for when I'm playtesting wads, however for the Ultimate Doom I can beat it in just one go. That is because I know every map layout with secrets, and that is not the case while playing other wads. For Going Down UV with pistol starts I learned the hard way to use saves when I'm practicing.

 

Max0r described it pretty well in his Doom Eternal video.

 

''Everyone is busy''  ''People who are good at Doom have more time to invest than others.''

 

For me it's always the question of does it ruin my fun? There is a difference if I die in a level and have a save in hand and if I die during a 30 minute demo run. It's crushing for the latter.

 

To put it simply: Unless you really want to be good at Doom, you shouldn't be ashamed for using saves. It's only a game after all.

[Toad]

I also savespam in doom, I do not consider it cheating, because you still need to do all the same things as in a no save run.

I do think that you haven't truly beaten the level, because you can make wayyyyyy more mistakes with saves. I consider a true completion of a level if you beat the level on UV without saves (so basically UV speed).

[Kute]

Of course you should play how you want. It's your game. No Doom police are going to bust down your door. It's just a game. 

 

I just hope that noone here is delusional enough to think it doesn't make the game incredibly easier. That's all.

[idbeholdME]

Saving the game never is, never has been and never will be cheating. It is a basic game funcionality that shows me that the game respects my time. Checkpoint only saves are the bane of existence, as well as any other non-player controlled system.

 

Spamming saves does not mean you are "save scumming", unless you are actually loading them. And if I had to constantly replay a piss easy part just to have another go at the difficult fight 20 minutes into the level, I'd rather stop playing.

[Pirx]

15 hours ago, Capellan said:

Games are for fun.

 

Do what you find fun.

 

If saves increase your fun, use them.

 

If saves decrease your fun, don't use them.

 

 

 

heh. it's that simple  ;)

 

it just depends on what one considers fun. i, for example, think it's more fun when the monsters have a chance too. getting away from a fight with 2 hp and regenerating and being able to continue is much more satisfying than repeating your task until it's done. not to mention it's better for improving the skill. and if it's just too much, then there's always the option of lowering the difficulty.

 

however, i use saves from time to time - if the map is large, so i don't have to repeat the whole thing when something goes wrong, or if there's anything obnoxious i don't want to repeat, mostly involving some platforming like in the chasm, or very rng-dependent.

[UnclePhil]

I play without cheats but with mouse look and I don't limit myself on saves. Sometimes I save more often during hard levels but I mainly save to avoid getting set back too far if I die because my gaming high often stops dead in the water if I have to do too much replaying. I agree with those who say you should play how you want to play... and there's different kind of self-inflicted challenge that comes from trying to come back from a poorly-chosen save point 😂

[Rytrik]

Do whatever you want with saves, as save slots were intentionally added to the game by the id Team and were explicitly mentioned in the manual.  That's my view.

[KeaganDunn]

Saves are a game mechanic, not a crime.

[Maes]

Well....even with unlimited and mostly state-accurate saves at your disposal, sometimes you just happen to save at a very bad time, and retrying the same fight over and over with the same limited ammo/health/armor and bad position (often within a few ticks from being ripped to shreds), is more masochism than cheating.

 

In such cases, you just prove that a MUCH better player than you could, theoretically, pull it off within an inch of his life in a seamless FDA (minus the D part). But then again such a player would likely never put himself in the same shit as you....

[vanilla_d00m]

I didn't see it as masochism (I learned a new word) I just didn't want to start from the beginning again.  So I'm a masochism save scummer??

 

I'm soo used to playing like this.  Well least I know now for sure I don't cheat.

 

I would like to also put in this post (off topic) that sometimes I use idclip code because of falling down to pits of doom of no return that some levels have.  This happens on tricks and traps map where the exit is.

 

That can't be cheating.. I'm just going back up because I fell down by accident.  And the level is already completed anyway..

Edited October 4, 2021 by vanilla_d00m

[Maes]

45 minutes ago, vanilla_d00m said:

I didn't see it as masochism (I learned a new word) I just didn't want to start from the beginning again.  So I'm a masochism save scummer??

 

Well...if you got stuck in a particular fight which, from the instant the load is complete, requires split-second maneuvers in order to avoid a barrage of fireballs, not stumbling upon closing-in monsters, having luck with random hitscanners, edging at the very limit of a cyber's rocket's splash damage etc., requires some 20-odd repeats to get it just right AND even if you survive that you'd still be hanging on 1% health and no ammo, making the next encounter just as bad, well, perhaps it's better to restart the map and review your overall strategy. It's not improbable that you'd waste less time that way, than retrying every tight spot 10 or 20 times.

 

Save-scumming is kinda like cigarettes: you're not actually smoking them if you are just putting them in your mouth but not lighting them. The correct term should be "scumloaders", because just by hitting save and never hitting load, well, you're not actually using those saved games, and the only difference between you and a FDA/no-save run is perhaps a bit of added confidence.

[BoxY]

I gotta say I have seen a lot of guys on various streams who made a map needlessly grindy and painful by reloading the same terrible save with 2% health 50 times in a row when they probably could have beat the map on the second attempt if they just cut their losses and restarted it. I guess the moral is that if you want to save, then save smarter, not harder. At the very least, alternate two save slots so you always have a safe save in reserve.

[vanilla_d00m]

That's what I do on unholy realms map 30.  I died more then 50 times after each load but managed to beat it.  I got a little better and don't die as much.. I think I did restart a few times on this map and then I realized it does help you get better.

 

Maes thanks for the deep helpful post.  I learned a lot about how I play.

 

 

[Maes]

Playing on Survival servers makes you value each go at a map much more. Truth be said, it make you specifically better at playing a particular map, but some of the general caution, tactics etc. remain with you, making you a better solo player overall.

[Nikku4211]

I play without cheats.

 

I save every few seconds. While often, I run into the issue where I mess up a save and save at a point in time where I am doomed to fail, most of the time, I find quicksaving useful. 

Since I'm not really a pro, I can't finish long maps in 1 go anyway.

[vanilla_d00m]

Don't really play online.. I find it more fun playing the game alone.  I do remember going on zdaemon to just see how it's like.  That was like 2008 or something.

 

 

[ZeroTheEro]

save as much as you want. it's not like some asshole would come to your house and beat you up with a sandal for savescumming.

[mrthejoshmon]

I often forget to save then act confused when I'm 5 levels back after quickloading.

 

I usually save at the start of the level and use that save, I like having "1 run" if that makes sense, however depending on how I'm feeling I will quicksave intermittently. It's a zero issue really.