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BENCHY

Thought I might post one of my maps here.

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This is just something I've been working on for a couple of days. For now, it's just a couple of maps (MAP01 and MAP02) but I will probably make more eventually. The maps have a hellish theme to them and the second one might be I little slaughterish but my buddies and I found them fun during testing. The maps have been tested on PrBoom+ and GzDoom. The map is made in Boom format and is NOT designed for crouching jumping. Uses Doom2 IWAD.

 

these are my third and fourth maps ever and my first maps publicly posted. The map design is most definitely bad so if anyone has any feedback that would really be appreciated.

 

Download Link:

https://www.doomworld.com/idgames/levels/doom2/Ports/m-o/notajokepack

 

 

MAP01

doom11.png.e6cd66299c082f2dbddc2f4b2334617e.png

doom12.png.5f35e1de095a53d434ee9ff657137a84.png

 

 

MAP02

doom14.png.c78b5e97f7671577a2573ac747d44473.pngdoom16.png.01d279002042399c8b55296d3641ab7b.pngdoom18.png.7a64daa4928d3ab167f497c964c27590.png

Edited by BENCHY

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Just by the screenshots, they look great for beginner maps.

Those trims look nice in the last shot.

Even I forget to add trims to my maps.

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Not bad at all.  I'll have to mark this one and give it a try at some point.

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I Found both maps are OK, a bit easy for my taste but are great for beginner/intermediatte players, maybe not the first run but when you learn how each fight works is a lot easier than it seems. The only concern i have if sometimes monsters take too long to teleport specially in map 1. About desing can't say too much because i usually don't care too much of that

 

edit: edited a bit to not lead to more missunderstanding about the "easy" part, sorry about that. 

Edited by abax

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4 hours ago, abax said:

I Found both maps are OK, a bit easy for my taste but are great for beginner players. The only concern i have if sometimes monsters take too long to teleport specially in map 1. About desing can't say too much because i usually don't care too much of that 

Thanks for pointing out the teleporting issue out. I did notice that a little back then and it turns out it's because I was physically adding a small sector in between the teleport room and a sector accessible by the player instead of just joining it with another sector which seems to be pretty inefficient.1277915479_conectingsector.PNG.54794d52ee1820beeeb6cca458c004ae.PNG

 

I could probably just use boom's Carrying sectors to push monsters into the linedef tbh.

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5 hours ago, abax said:

I Found both maps are OK, a bit easy for my taste but are great for beginner players.

 

??? I'm not sure what maps you were playing, but I wouldn't class maps where you have multiple instances of Arch Viles being able to have a degree of freedom to roam (with no BFG to slice through the crowds) as "easy". (If you were playing on UV that is)

 

Both maps were very action packed, and not what I was expecting! A couple of comments:

 

- As you hinted at, texture choices probably need rethinking in a couple of places.

- In both maps you have decorations that are easy to bump into when running around, which given the intensity of some of the fights, I found to be an enormous annoyance.

- If anyone was going to Pistol start the second map, having only a RL to fight a Cyberdemon is definitely the classic E2M8 duel, but can be more time consuming than difficult. Even coming from the first map, I had almost no Cells left by the time I got there anyway. You could consider replacing one of the Rocket Launchers with a PG and some Cells. It's a bit odd stylistically to have two Rocket Launchers in the same room.

- The last two AVs in Map 2 are quite tricky, because while you can sometimes stun one, stunning two is nearly impossible, and it's also almost impossible to kill both of them before being hit (as you have no BFG), and it's highly unlikely you'll be close to full health from the rest of the map. There was a WAD recently where the theme was that the exit was almost always guarded by 3 AVs, but you generally had some scenery to hide behind. It's not necessarily a problem per se, but the room is completely open with no way to dodge the attacks. If you're going to use this idea, possibly a Berserk pack before the exit to guarantee the player can always survive one AV blast may be good.

 

Really good fun overall though, and I'd love to play your next maps!

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29 minutes ago, Degree23 said:

??? I'm not sure what maps you were playing, but I wouldn't class maps where you have multiple instances of Arch Viles being able to have a degree of freedom to roam (with no BFG to slice through the crowds) as "easy". (If you were playing on UV that is)

 

I was playing on UV and i found most of the archviles where in obvious places so isn't to hard to just kill them with rocket launcher, the only 2 ones that catch me offguard was the last 2 on the second map, you can hide from them using the floors with the rockets packs. I played most of the map using the SG saving rocket for more heavy fights and that seems to works perfectly because i beat both maps without saving. The last fight you can easily use the cyberdemon to kill all the stuff and then kill him using a few rockets or SG too.

Maybe easy wasn't the right word here but comparing to the wads that i have been playing the last couple of days this maps are definitivelly easier and that isn't bad we all have differents tastes.

 

1 hour ago, BENCHY said:

Thanks for pointing out the teleporting issue out. I did notice that a little back then and it turns out it's because I was physically adding a small sector in between the teleport room and a sector accessible by the player instead of just joining it with another sector which seems to be pretty inefficient.

 

Unfortuntaly never build a map so i have no idea how builders work but wanted to put it out as a feedback :)

 

edit: never read that this were your third and fourth map, they are very good ones 

Edited by abax

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15 minutes ago, Degree23 said:

 

??? I'm not sure what maps you were playing, but I wouldn't class maps where you have multiple instances of Arch Viles being able to have a degree of freedom to roam (with no BFG to slice through the crowds) as "easy". (If you were playing on UV that is)

 

Both maps were very action packed, and not what I was expecting! A couple of comments:

 

- As you hinted at, texture choices probably need rethinking in a couple of places.

- In both maps you have decorations that are easy to bump into when running around, which given the intensity of some of the fights, I found to be an enormous annoyance.

- If anyone was going to Pistol start the second map, having only a RL to fight a Cyberdemon is definitely the classic E2M8 duel, but can be more time consuming than difficult. Even coming from the first map, I had almost no Cells left by the time I got there anyway. You could consider replacing one of the Rocket Launchers with a PG and some Cells. It's a bit odd stylistically to have two Rocket Launchers in the same room.

- The last two AVs in Map 2 are quite tricky, because while you can sometimes stun one, stunning two is nearly impossible, and it's also almost impossible to kill both of them before being hit (as you have no BFG), and it's highly unlikely you'll be close to full health from the rest of the map. There was a WAD recently where the theme was that the exit was almost always guarded by 3 AVs, but you generally had some scenery to hide behind. It's not necessarily a problem per se, but the room is completely open with no way to dodge the attacks. If you're going to use this idea, possibly a Berserk pack before the exit to guarantee the player can always survive one AV blast may be good.

 

Really good fun overall though, and I'd love to play your next maps!

thanks for the feedback I really appreciate it and I'm glad you had fun. yeah, I did also notice the decoration problem. I will properly remove a bit of it and use decor with no collision more often in future maps. I do think a PR would make the final room of MAP02 more manageable, I had kind of designed the room to be more based around the monsters infighting but I can see how that can be kinda frustrating and there really isn't much room for you to move around so I will probably add a PR ate the entrance. about the two Archies, I have a few ideas on some covers and stuff. but thanks for taking the time to play :)

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4 minutes ago, abax said:

 

I was playing on UV and i found most of the archviles where in obvious places so isn't to hard to just kill them with rocket launcher, the only 2 ones that catch me offguard was the last 2 on the second map, you can hide from them using the floors with the rockets packs. I played most of the map using the SG saving rocket for more heavy fights and that seems to works perfectly because i beat both maps without saving. The last fight you can easily use the cyberdemon to kill all the stuff and then kill him using a few rockets or SG too.

Maybe easy wasn't the right word here but comparing to the wads that i have been playing the last couple of days this maps are definitivelly easy and that isn't bad we all have differents tastes.

 

 

Unfortuntaly never build a map so i have no idea how builders work but wanted to put it out as a feedback :)

yeah, the cyber demon in fighting the monsters what the intended way of beating the room but I can see how that may get annoying in such a small space so I'm thinking of adding a PR at the entrance.

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6 minutes ago, BENCHY said:

yeah, the cyber demon in fighting the monsters what the intended way of beating the room but I can see how that may get annoying in such a small space so I'm thinking of adding a PR at the entrance.

 

I made the infighting shotting the cyberdemon from outside the room, that wasn't intended?

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Just now, abax said:

 

I made the infighting shotting the cyberdemon from outside the room, that wans't intended?

I fixed that in the update I'm working on but for now if it works it works.

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6 hours ago, abax said:

I Found both maps are OK, a bit easy for my taste but are great for beginner players. The only concern i have if sometimes monsters take too long to teleport specially in map 1. About desing can't say too much because i usually don't care too much of that 

Im no beginner but even i died, since the area has lava floors your instinct is not to do battle in that area and getting swarmed even while having the plasma rifle isnt something i would also rather laber as beginner friendly.

 

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5 minutes ago, Doomdude89 said:

Im no beginner but even i died, since the area has lava floors your instinct is not to do battle in that area and getting swarmed even while having the plasma rifle isnt something i would also rather laber as beginner friendly.

 

honestly, I thought that fight was a bit unfair, but it was beatable so I left it in 🤷‍♂️

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6 minutes ago, BENCHY said:

I fixed that in the update I'm working on but for now if it works it works.

 

will try it again fighting all inside the room when the fix comes out

 

5 minutes ago, Doomdude89 said:

Im no beginner but even i died, since the area has lava floors your instinct is not to do battle in that area and getting swarmed even while having the plasma rifle isnt something i would also rather laber as beginner friendly.

 

 as i said in a above comment, easy wasn't the right word and will edit that comment to not lead to more missunderstanding. but can say for that fight that you must kill all the demons before openning the red key door. they have  differents triggers so isn't necesary to fight all at the same time and the archviles are easily killeable from the opposite door (where the demons comes)

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1 minute ago, Doomdude89 said:

Trial and error like doom usually is :P

 

Yeah, maybe i had luck because i heard some noises and wanted to check it out just to find all the demons coming from the start.

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I've played its 1st map in ReBoom in HNTR.

 

There were too many hitscanners in the starting area. The thing about hitscanners is that it is impossible to dodge their bullets, so huge hordes of them are tough.

 

I liked the visual design of the level. While it isn't too easy on the eyes, at least there are enough landmarks to aid navigation. I also felt the exit in the starting room should have had some visual indicator that it needs the yellow key, especially since it's in a room full of hitscanners.

 

Even with all of the health items in the level, the chaingunners still were tough on my health, and I spent a good amount of the level with a low amount of health, since it seems the health items were more scarce than I thought.

 

I didn't like the huge fight near the end of the level. Way too many enemies spawned in, and the room immediately felt cramped with this many enemies. Plus there weren't enough health items by this point, since there were so many enemies and all I got was a single soulsphere that only raised my health to 107% and a single mega armour.

 

Unfortunately, ReBoom 2.05 crashed (with no error message) right before the 2nd level was able to start.

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1 hour ago, Nikku4211 said:

I've played its 1st map in ReBoom in HNTR.

 

There were too many hitscanners in the starting area. The thing about hitscanners is that it is impossible to dodge their bullets, so huge hordes of them are tough.

 

I liked the visual design of the level. While it isn't too easy on the eyes, at least there are enough landmarks to aid navigation. I also felt the exit in the starting room should have had some visual indicator that it needs the yellow key, especially since it's in a room full of hitscanners.

 

Even with all of the health items in the level, the chaingunners still were tough on my health, and I spent a good amount of the level with a low amount of health, since it seems the health items were more scarce than I thought.

 

I didn't like the huge fight near the end of the level. Way too many enemies spawned in, and the room immediately felt cramped with this many enemies. Plus there weren't enough health items by this point, since there were so many enemies and all I got was a single soulsphere that only raised my health to 107% and a single mega armour.

 

Unfortunately, ReBoom 2.05 crashed (with no error message) right before the 2nd level was able to start.

yeah, the hit scanners are pretty tough but their numbers are lower on lower difficulty levels so that is an option if you need it. I do see how the yellow door can be misleading so I might label it in a newer iteration of the map. The health is purposely low on UV and is increases in lower difficulty levels. The last fight is hard I'll give you that, I've been thinking of turning it down a notch. The maps haven't been tested on ReBoom only PrBoom+ and GzDoom so I can't guarantee it will work on other source ports sorry.

but thanks for the feedback, much appreciated.

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1 hour ago, BENCHY said:

yeah, the hit scanners are pretty tough but their numbers are lower on lower difficulty levels so that is an option if you need it. I do see how the yellow door can be misleading so I might label it in a newer iteration of the map. The health is purposely low on UV and is increases in lower difficulty levels. The last fight is hard I'll give you that, I've been thinking of turning it down a notch.

HNTR is the 2nd lowest difficulty level, since Doom's level format only recognises 3 difficulties. I wasn't playing on UV anyway.

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This might not be a joke-WAD as your file name implies, but it certainly feels like you're being a troll for the most part. None of the combat or progression feel like they have any really thought out sense of design so much as running on the idea of, "How best can I annoy and overwhelm the player as possible?" It feels really spammy most of the time with the heaping bowls of demons teleporting in seemingly endlessly most of the time to the point of tedium rather than fun, if I'm being honest. I found myself having to cheese a lot of the situations as best as I could, running away and manipulating the demons limited path-finding to make them press against walls so I could thin the never-ending horde as much as possible before cleaning up the rest. I'd say I like MAP01 better as it doesn't feel quite as spammy and troll-ish as MAP02 does. Overall, this WAD feels like more of an endurance test with trial-and-error gameplay that's guaranteed to annoy more than anything else. You do have the the basic mechanics down-pat, which is a great start. Now you just need to figure out how to design your maps to make them more engaging and less flat-feeling and reign yourself in when it comes to combat and focus on balance to make it challenging but also fun rather than tedious attrition.

 

Welcome to Doomworld!

 

 

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50 minutes ago, Biodegradable said:

This might not be a joke-WAD as your file name implies, but it certainly feels like you're being a troll for the most part. None of the combat or progression feel like they have any really thought out sense of design so much as running on the idea of, "How best can I annoy and overwhelm the player as possible?" It feels really spammy most of the time with the heaping bowls of demons teleporting in seemingly endlessly most of the time to the point of tedium rather than fun, if I'm being honest. I found myself having to cheese a lot of the situations as best as I could, running away and manipulating the demons limited path-finding to make them press against walls so I could thin the never-ending horde as much as possible before cleaning up the rest. I'd say I like MAP01 better as it doesn't feel quite as spammy and troll-ish as MAP02 does. Overall, this WAD feels like more of an endurance test with trial-and-error gameplay that's guaranteed to annoy more than anything else. You do have the the basic mechanics down-pat, which is a great start. Now you just need to figure out how to design your maps to make them more engaging and less flat-feeling and reign yourself in when it comes to combat and focus on balance to make it challenging but also fun rather than tedious attrition.

 

Welcome to Doomworld!

 

 

Firstly thanks for the feedback and for taking the time to play the maps. Oh yeah, I totally get what you're saying about the second map being spammy I guess in trying to make it hard I really just added more monsters than needed and made it too slaughtery. I'm looking to improve on that in my upcoming maps and focus more on monster placement. and needless to say, my map design needs work but I guess that comes with experience so hopefully, my next map is better.

 

Also what mods are you using with your GzDoom? The shoty sounds sick.

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12 minutes ago, BENCHY said:

I'm looking to improve on that in my upcoming maps and focus more on monster placement. and needless to say, my map design needs work but I guess that comes with experience so hopefully, my next map is better.

 

Practice makes perfect! I also recommend studying the works of Doom mappers who inspire you and take note of how they build their maps and shape their combat scenarios, traps, ambushes, progression, etc.

 

13 minutes ago, BENCHY said:

Also what mods are you using with your GzDoom? The shoty sounds sick.

 

Vanilla+ for the weapon animations and Nash's Gore for the blood and guts.

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1 minute ago, Biodegradable said:

 

Practice makes perfect! I also recommend studying the works of Doom mappers who inspire you and take note of how they build their maps and shape their combat scenarios, traps, ambushes, progression, etc.

 

 

Vanilla+ for the weapon animations and Nash's Gore for the blood and guts.

thanks man

 

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I saw some of Bio's video before playing, so I knew some of what I should expect:

 

 

The start of map01 gave me a pretty bad first impression, since it's just a circular firing squad with the player at the center and no cover. Survival is RNG dependent if you fire immediately, but this problem is mitigated if you stay quiet until you've grabbed the shotgun and lined up some shotgunners in your sights. For the most part, combat in this wad is decent, though it does feel at least a little filler-y most of the time. One of the most filler-y parts is at 4:20 in the video, where a lot of enemies begin teleporting in from outside, and the player can just peekaboo shoot them as they come in. The final fight of map02 is the reason I didn't beat that map saveless after three attempts (I did rewind after the first attempt failed and finished the map that way). That room seriously needs more health. Cover from the viles is barely existent, and there's no reliable way to avoid significant damage from the chaingunners, other than maybe retreating to previous rooms while the cyberdemon infights (I didn't try this).

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35 minutes ago, Pseudonaut said:

I saw some of Bio's video before playing, so I knew some of what I should expect:

 

 

The start of map01 gave me a pretty bad first impression, since it's just a circular firing squad with the player at the center and no cover. Survival is RNG dependent if you fire immediately, but this problem is mitigated if you stay quiet until you've grabbed the shotgun and lined up some shotgunners in your sights. For the most part, combat in this wad is decent, though it does feel at least a little filler-y most of the time. One of the most filler-y parts is at 4:20 in the video, where a lot of enemies begin teleporting in from outside, and the player can just peekaboo shoot them as they come in. The final fight of map02 is the reason I didn't beat that map saveless after three attempts (I did rewind after the first attempt failed and finished the map that way). That room seriously needs more health. Cover from the viles is barely existent, and there's no reliable way to avoid significant damage from the chaingunners, other than maybe retreating to previous rooms while the cyberdemon infights (I didn't try this).

Thanks for the feedback man really helps. I'm definitely adding more cover and more health for the next version of map2. In terms of map1 I definitely do feel all those hitscaners teleporting in are not that fun but I'm not really feeling like updating that map for now. I'm probably gonna split up the maps instead of them being in the same wad idk. But anyway thanks for taking the time to play the maps dude really appreciate it.

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