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ChopBlock223

GzDoom: What kind of hardware gives the best performance?

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So I'm planning on a new PC, a laptop, and since I play Doom in GzDoom more than half the time, and like playing around with mods, I figure I'll want the better suited hardware to give better performance across the board.

 

What type of GPU would in that case be best suited for that now? Is there anything to be looking out for?

I hear that using Vulkan gives better average performance with some types of hardware.

 

Not strictly looking to run maximum settings, also I'm a layman, as comes across by me making this thread to ask.

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For general driver stability I'd strongly recommend NVidia. We've been having several and recurring issues with AMD driver bugs, even with Vulkan.

The performance of the GPU mainly depends on what kinds of mods you want to play. For most use cases a GTX 1060 should be sufficient, more recent RTX cards only can play out their strengths on mods which make heavy use of material effects and custom shaders.

 

But you should see to install a fast CPU.

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Nvidia, eh? Any overall drawbacks to their GPUs, or is it much like any other brand?

 

18 minutes ago, Graf Zahl said:

The performance of the GPU mainly depends on what kinds of mods you want to play.

Mods with detail, I suppose, spent casings, smoke, near cartoonish gore and bloodsplatter, along with dynamic lights and stuff where applicable.

 

Basically whatever mostly straightforward stuff I cobble away on myself, but with attention to detail, and I guess mods such as Hideous Destructor with some cosmetic additions.

 

18 minutes ago, Graf Zahl said:

For most use cases a GTX 1060 should be sufficient, more recent RTX cards only can play out their strengths on mods which make heavy use of material effects and custom shaders.

I'd be maybe willing try out some stuff with normal maps, though the fact that consistent support will never be more than partial makes it like a waste of time (any level set with custom textures will then feature abrupt lack of them in places, and stuff which replaces textures by name is gonna look odd).

Beyond that, those aren't too big of a deal to me.

 

18 minutes ago, Graf Zahl said:

But you should see to install a fast CPU.

Naturally, though it'd be something prebuilt, as I lack the tools and knowhow to assemble a computer (nor the patience for the inevitable troubleshooting process). Maybe I'll try to learn that to build something stationary one day, but that'd be some ways off.

 

I thank you for your time.

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To add to what Graf said, you especially need to make sure to have a CPU with strong single-threaded performance since GZDoom (and pretty much every other Doom source ports) are primarily single threaded in terms of the actor code and BSP-calculations etc.

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1 hour ago, ChopBlock223 said:

Naturally, though it'd be something prebuilt, as I lack the tools and knowhow to assemble a computer (nor the patience for the inevitable troubleshooting process). Maybe I'll try to learn that to build something stationary one day, but that'd be some ways off.

 

 

I'd recommend a shop that custom assembles a computer with the components you choose yourself.

All of the prebuilts I owned had issues with some cheap parts in them and rather quickly developed problems. The last system I bought was custom assembled by a professional dealer, and it has been doing great work for 9.5 years by now - I only needed a graphics card and an SSD update in-between. I know I'll buy the next one at the same shop. :)

 

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I'm not an expert by any means, but I have been running GZ almost exclusively on my machine for almost two years now with barely any issues beyond a rare lag moment. I've got the Speccy app, so I'll let it do the talking for me so you can get idea of the hardware I have. Also, having Graf here to answer the more technical stuff means you're in good hands. I too enjoy dynamic lighting and using a gore mod and the only time it has caused severe lag is if it's a room with a shit-ton of demons all being crushed at the same time, which is not much of a recurring thing you see in many Doom WADs. I'll just temporarily adjust the Gore mod's settings when that happens hehe. So all and all, I've gotten solid performance from my setup. Hope you find this useful:

 

gjio2Z2.png

 

 

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1 hour ago, Graf Zahl said:

 

I'd recommend a shop that custom assembles a computer with the components you choose yourself.

All of the prebuilts I owned had issues with some cheap parts in them and rather quickly developed problems. The last system I bought was custom assembled by a professional dealer, and it has been doing great work for 9.5 years by now - I only needed a graphics card and an SSD update in-between. I know I'll buy the next one at the same shop. :)

 

Oh, that sounds like a really good service. I don't suppose there's any that builds laptops? Seems like it would be less easy to do.

 

How much do services like that cost?

 

49 minutes ago, Biodegradable said:

Hope you find this useful:

gjio2Z2.png

Wow, that's a lot of storage space, I don't that many drives can fit in any laptop casings.

 

I need it to be a laptop by the way, because I don't have much space currently, and I really like to take it with me while travelling.

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14 minutes ago, ChopBlock223 said:

Wow, that's a lot of storage space, I don't that many drives can fit in any laptop casings.

 

Ahaha yeah, just ignore that. I'm a video editor, so I need a shit-ton of storage space. I doubt you'd need anything THAT chunky to have GZ run decently on your laptop.

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Keep in mind that a laptop will have somewhat less horsepower than a desktop, all things considered. For example, you're not fitting my Ryzen 5900X into a laptop - it's got a 105W TDP. That sort of thing would either absolutely roast in a laptop case, drain the battery faster than you can cry for your mommy, or both.

 

To be fair, there are plenty of CPUs that actually kick a lot of butt despite being in laptops. And it should be noted that while AMD is not that great on the GPU front, their Ryzen CPUs are actually extremely competitive with Intel's offerings. I built my first AMD rig in almost fifteen years off the strength of them - they're that good. The downside is that they're usually paired with an AMD GPU in an APU configuration, unless the laptop uses a dedicated GPU - but then you're getting into the fancy and expensive ones, or the customize-your-owns from guys like Sager.

 

However, just remember that the more powerful the CPU, the more battery life and thermals are likely to suffer. You can't have cool AND fast in an enclosure that small. (The heatsink I use on my Ryzen 5900X is bigger and thicker than a folded-up laptop...)

 

I guess for a modern laptop CPU, if you're looking for something that could do even some modern gaming, you'd want to aim for a processor with a TDP in the 45-65 watt range. This will be above your regular old laptop CPUs (which mostly sit in the 15-28 watt range), and for Doom you'd want good singlecore performance as well (though modern games will obviously benefit from more cores/threads). For Intel, try to get a 10th/11th-gen Core (Comet Lake/Ice Lake = 10th, Tiger Lake = 11th); for AMD try to get a Zen 2/Zen 3 (Lucienne = Zen 2, Cezanne = Zen 3).

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On 10/16/2021 at 3:52 PM, Dark Pulse said:

Keep in mind that a laptop will have somewhat less horsepower than a desktop, all things considered. For example, you're not fitting my Ryzen 5900X into a laptop - it's got a 105W TDP. That sort of thing would either absolutely roast in a laptop case, drain the battery faster than you can cry for your mommy, or both.

Oh, I'm very well aware. I've always used a cooling plate with laptops to keep my lap/groin/stomach from toasting (the fan broke in the one I have now many, many years ago, but it's still a thick gauge aluminum sheet with perforations, so there's something to allow for airflow and some additional heatsinking). For battery, I'm usually plugged in. I don't tend to move the computer around much in my home or wherever I travel to, I just really like that it's compact and easily transported in a carry bag, means I can still work on my Doom projects whenever I'm away from home for extended periods of time, as well as tend to various obligations.

 

On 10/16/2021 at 3:52 PM, Dark Pulse said:

To be fair, there are plenty of CPUs that actually kick a lot of butt despite being in laptops.

As long as they run my Dooms well.

 

On 10/16/2021 at 3:52 PM, Dark Pulse said:

However, just remember that the more powerful the CPU, the more battery life and thermals are likely to suffer.

You can't have cool AND fast in an enclosure that small. (The heatsink I use on my Ryzen 5900X is bigger and thicker than a folded-up laptop...)

Noted. How much of a useful effect does stuff like cooling plates actually have on laptops? I assume that there must be at least a limited benefit, besides my own comfort.

 

On 10/16/2021 at 3:52 PM, Dark Pulse said:

I guess for a modern laptop CPU, if you're looking for something that could do even some modern gaming, you'd want to aim for a processor with a TDP in the 45-65 watt range. This will be above your regular old laptop CPUs (which mostly sit in the 15-28 watt range), and for Doom you'd want good singlecore performance as well (though modern games will obviously benefit from more cores/threads). For Intel, try to get a 10th/11th-gen Core (Comet Lake/Ice Lake = 10th, Tiger Lake = 11th); for AMD try to get a Zen 2/Zen 3 (Lucienne = Zen 2, Cezanne = Zen 3).

Hmm. I see.

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If you are looking into playing mods that spawn a lot of objects (casing, blood etc), then a fast CPU will make a bigger difference than the GPU. But that isn't to say the GPU is useless - if the mods also spawn a lot of translucent effects and cause overdraw, you'll also want a good GPU that can handle the overdraw.

 

My personal recommendation is to go for any higher-than-middle tier i7 (currently on an i7-8700 myself) and a GTX 1070, or RTX 2060 (both nvidia). As has been said, AMD's drivers has been giving GZDoom a lot of problems.

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6 hours ago, ChopBlock223 said:

Noted. How much of a useful effect does stuff like cooling plates actually have on laptops? I assume that there must be at least a limited benefit, besides my own comfort.

I'm admittedly not much of a laptop person, so I've never personally used a cooling pad myself.

 

That said, I think they would provide a modest benefit. They won't really do much for CPU horsepower, but what they will do is let the CPU run harder for longer by virtue of helping out with airflow inside of the laptop itself. The general idea is much the same as a desktop PC - the more air (and more air flow) that's circulating in the case, the cooler the component can be, as if it is enough air and flow, the hot air will be evacuated and the CPU will reach an equilibrium based off of the heat it generates itself.

 

But if it's trying to sink that air into hotter air, eventually thermal temperatures will increase, and the CPU will generally throttle or clock down to prevent thermal shutdown.

 

In short, if you use a laptop regularly, and tend to push it pretty hard and/or are generally in a very warm location, it could have a decent benefit. But if you're just doing modest stuff, it's not really much more than placebo.

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2 hours ago, ChopBlock223 said:

Well, I use my laptop daily, though I don't live anywhere particularly warm, and I don't think I push the hardware very hard.

Probably more placebo than anything then, as I said.

 

I mean, it can't hurt though, especially if it's powered independently. If the laptop itself is powering it, you will lose battery life, but since you said you mostly have it plugged into the wall, even that would be mostly moot.

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Now days CPU's are fast enough for any Doom port or anything you throw at it, but video hardware is important in this case. I'd stick with Nvidia GPU if possible. Even if you only had an oldie P4 CPU, and theoretically had a modern Nvidia GPU in your laptop, you should be able to run a dozen instances of Gzdoom, with all the bell's and whistle's, depending on the wad of course. 

 

But since we're not talking about the past, what is the budget? 

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True,

but currently its a bad idea to be buying or building computers...

maybe he can find something second hand if he is lucky and even then it will be at an inflated price...

 

he could get by for now with top-of-the-line anno 2016... ie. gtx 1080 + i7-6700k

 

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17 hours ago, CBM said:

you need something extreme based on intel and nvidia.... like this:

https://www.pcgamer.com/build-guide-the-extreme-gaming-pc/

He is also getting a laptop. This is moot, since you can't cherry-pick your parts in a laptop most of the time unless you go through a customizer.

 

Or at least, I THINK he is getting a laptop.

 

If he's getting a desktop then obviously this will become a whole different topic, since depending on what his current system is, @ChopBlock223 may be able to save some bucks by reusing parts.

 

8 hours ago, ChopBlock223 said:

I've got about 1000bux set aside right now. I recognize that this may not be as much as usual, with current circumstances.

You can get a decent PC for about that price, especially if you can reuse anything. Are you indeed sticking with laptops as I figured, or are you building a desktop, and if the latter, assuming you have a desktop, what's currently in it?

 

The more of it that can be reused, the better the system you can get by virtue of putting the money into more focused new parts as opposed to buying everything else new.

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5 hours ago, Dark Pulse said:

He is also getting a laptop. This is moot, since you can't cherry-pick your parts in a laptop most of the time unless you go through a customizer.

 

Or at least, I THINK he is getting a laptop.

 

If he's getting a desktop then obviously this will become a whole different topic, since depending on what his current system is, @ChopBlock223 may be able to save some bucks by reusing parts.

 

You can get a decent PC for about that price, especially if you can reuse anything. Are you indeed sticking with laptops as I figured, or are you building a desktop, and if the latter, assuming you have a desktop, what's currently in it?

 

The more of it that can be reused, the better the system you can get by virtue of putting the money into more focused new parts as opposed to buying everything else new.

ah yes, now that I read the original post again then I can see its a laptop

 

well

 

it would need to be a pretty extreme laptop then

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17 hours ago, Dark Pulse said:

The more of it that can be reused, the better the system you can get by virtue of putting the money into more focused new parts as opposed to buying everything else new.

Not really sure what I can reuse for a laptop.

 

12 hours ago, CBM said:

it would need to be a pretty extreme laptop then

It would, for having good performance with GzDoom? I don't really play with shaders or stuff.

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10 minutes ago, ChopBlock223 said:

It would, for having good performance with GzDoom? I don't really play with shaders or stuff.

depends on how heavy gzdoom mods you'd like to run, how much tearing + choppyness  you can handle and how many mods you like to use simultaniously I guess

 

this 2016 gaming laptop I'm using right now, is able to handle a decent amount of gzdoom mods but it can be overwhelmed if I use too many mods on too heavy levels with too high detail settings

 

my laptop specs:

 

i7-6700u

16 GB memory

radeon r7 m370

 

but I get plenty of tearing and choppyness with this laptop in most gzdoom mods

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5 hours ago, CBM said:

depends on how heavy gzdoom mods you'd like to run, how much tearing + choppyness  you can handle and how many mods you like to use simultaniously I guess

I'm not exactly looking to play Brutal Doom on Bridgeburner's maps.

I guess imagine something like the Decorate conversion of the old Immoral Conduct : Special Edition, but with old Nashgore.

Or stuff like Hideous Destructor, Shut Up And Bleed, and once upon a time also Accessories To Murder.

 

5 hours ago, Mr.Rocket said:

That one sounds pretty damn good from its listed specs (even if the lightup keyboard gives it a gaudy look). I wonder though what it'd add to the price to ship overseas? Disc drives aren't particularly in vogue anymore, I don't even know if they even make laptops with those anymore, but what would that end up adding? Not a critical component for me, mind.

 

You guys are being very helpful by the way, I very much appreciate that.

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6 hours ago, ChopBlock223 said:

Not really sure what I can reuse for a laptop.

Yeah, not much really.

 

Maybe the RAM if it's the same form factor (usually SODIMM), classification (i.e; DDR3 vs. DDR4), and the motherboard supports the speed if both of those are fine.

 

Possibly the GPU if it's on an MXM module, but that's EXTREMELY unlikely.

 

Otherwise, nothing. Laptops are generally their own voxes you can't pull parts out of, with almost everything soldered in and so on.

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8 hours ago, ChopBlock223 said:

I'm not exactly looking to play Brutal Doom on Bridgeburner's maps.

I guess imagine something like the Decorate conversion of the old Immoral Conduct : Special Edition, but with old Nashgore.

Or stuff like Hideous Destructor, Shut Up And Bleed, and once upon a time also Accessories To Murder.

 

That one sounds pretty damn good from its listed specs (even if the lightup keyboard gives it a gaudy look). I wonder though what it'd add to the price to ship overseas? Disc drives aren't particularly in vogue anymore, I don't even know if they even make laptops with those anymore, but what would that end up adding? Not a critical component for me, mind.

 

You guys are being very helpful by the way, I very much appreciate that.

Ok and the laptop recommended by mr rocket would likely be powerfull enough for what you want to play :-)

 

let us know what you decide :-)

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