Judgment: Retrial - 34 Map MBF21 Megawad (RC3 - 1/31/2024)

[Rayziik]

8 hours ago, Catoptromancy said:

MAP04: You can sr-50 over the exit signs into a softlock. Also the bluekey door is activated by both the door itself and a switch, not really a problem I guess its an option to skip switch.

 

I added some player blocking flags to stop that from happening, and since the MAP03 exit is essentially the same structure I went back to it and did the same there. As for the blue key door, it's actually a 6 keys linedef on the door itself, which instead of being intended to be used directly, has been repurposed to give the message "This door is opened elsewhere".

 

Thanks for the reports!

[HackNeyed]

This is looking really cool. Congratulations on this project and all the feedback! I've been meaning to play this for 2 weeks already but I'm so tired by the time I have time to myself! Anyway its probably a bit late but if you want to see how a tired rusty old man plays on a skill level clearly above their pay grade... I've made some UV FDAs of the first 3 maps I've been able to play yesterday. I forgot to add -longtics for map01 and I could not finish map03 last night (too tired; kept dying) so there is a part 2 where I completed the map first re-try tonight.

 

Judgment-RC3-map01-03-fda-hackneyed.zip

 

My only technical comment so far is...

Spoiler

I found while secret hunting that the lights/lamps by the super shotgun in map03 could use an impassable line if you want. Doesn't really matter at all.

 

EDIT: map04 done and map05 is just too much tonight. I got the furthest on my first attempt! I'm hoping to get through the first "episode" on UV before I knock it down a peg. Judgment-RC3-map04-05p1-fda-hackneyed.zip

 

Just wondering, what does the difficulty progression look like for the rest of the wad? As in, it just ramps up? It goes up and down every episode? Fairly up and down but fairly flat? Also, will the episodes be split up with death exits and/or umapinfo to make an episode selection? I've been enjoying it a lot even if I get pretty lost but that's more to do with me than the wad.

 

EDIT2:

Spoiler

You probably already know but there was some floating blood in the final area when the floor bit was down... weird?

 

Edited November 8, 2021 by HackNeyed

[Rayziik]

10 hours ago, HackNeyed said:

This is looking really cool. Congratulations on this project and all the feedback! ...

 

My only technical comment so far is...

  Hide contents

I found while secret hunting that the lights/lamps by the super shotgun in map03 could use an impassable line if you want. Doesn't really matter at all.

 

 

Thanks for the demos! I'll be watching them today.

 

I think those lamps cause a bit of a bump simply due to them sticking out of the wall a little bit, it's a side effect of the engine itself unfortunately.

 

10 hours ago, HackNeyed said:

Just wondering, what does the difficulty progression look like for the rest of the wad? As in, it just ramps up? It goes up and down every episode? Fairly up and down but fairly flat? Also, will the episodes be split up with death exits and/or umapinfo to make an episode selection? I've been enjoying it a lot even if I get pretty lost but that's more to do with me than the wad.

  

EDIT2:

  Hide contents

You probably already know but there was some floating blood in the final area when the floor bit was down... weird? 

 

Difficulty wise, the later episodes ramp up a good bit. Ep. 5 and Ep. 6 are the hardest for sure, maybe just due to being unforgiving more so than sheer difficulty. I tried to make each episode enjoyable by itself, so ideally the difficulty in each episode is a ramp up and down, meaning overall there's dips and peaks in difficulty as the whole wad is played.

 

Each episode ends in a death exit, but I might spend the time to add episode selection (assuming that's possible?) before the final release.

 

The blood thing is already fixed in the final version I'm working on, I messed up some dehacked flags while I was editing the dehacked file.

[Firedust]

Completed the first episode on UV. Why is this thing so difficult? Expected a gentler start to get my rusty ass going. The beginning of Sunlust pales in comparison, stress-factor-wise.

 

Rayziik hates people, confirmed. Rayziik also hates dogs, confirmed.

 

 

BTW the maps are GREAT.

[HackNeyed]

For the lamp/torches I mean I was able to step up and enter the little alcove in the wall that holds them. It is super minor but I was very surprised when it happened because it normally doesn't happen in the wads I've played.

 

I really like the sounds of the difficulty progression. I really miss the episodic ebb and flow from Doom 1 so I'm very glad for another Doom 2 wad with episodes. I think you can easily add an episode selection with umapinfo. Checkout the UMAPINFO Appreciation Thread. If you have a look at the wad file for Scythe 2 it has some graphic lumps for the episode names and a umapinfo defining the episodes.

 

scythe2_um.zip

Pay special attention to the line  " episode = "E1TITLE", "Gothic", "1" ". From my limited understanding "E1TITLE" calls the graphic lump if present and "Gothic" is what would get shown in a small generic font if the graphics lump was missing. Change "Gothic" to something else and delete the graphics lump for E1TITLE to see what I mean.

 

Spoiler

// Gothic episode

map MAP01
{
    levelname = "Castle Entryway"
    label = "Level 1"
    levelpic = "CWILV00"

    episode = clear
    episode = "E1TITLE", "Gothic", "1"
}

// Egypt episode

map MAP06
{
    levelname = "Temple Entryway"
    label = "Level 6"
    levelpic = "CWILV05"

    episode = "E2TITLE", "Egypt", "2"
    intertext = clear
}

 

 

EDIT: I don't yet know how much the order of things really matter for map progression and stuff but the sequential order of the episodes is important. So I've quickly thrown in the most barest of bones episode list into your umapinfo.txt. I've probably done more harm then good but it seems to work. I can't really test it by clipping through levels if I want to keep doing FDAs.

 

EDIT2: If umapinfo is missing level names they are read from dehacked but if par times are missing in umapinfo then they are just zero. Fixed.

EDIT3: I messed up the intertextsecret for map08 doing some tests with only doom2.wad loaded. Fixed.

UMAPINFO-par-v2.zip

Edited November 9, 2021 by HackNeyed

[Rayziik]

2 hours ago, Firedust said:

Completed the first episode on UV. Why is this thing so difficult? Expected a gentler start to get my rusty ass going. The beginning of Sunlust pales in comparison, stress-factor-wise.

 

Rayziik hates people, confirmed. Rayziik also hates dogs, confirmed.

 

 

BTW the maps are GREAT.

 

Oh my, I didn't expect it to be that difficult for most people! Don't push yourself too hard, enjoy yourself :)

 

Also, I am more of a cat person...

 

2 hours ago, HackNeyed said:

For the lamp/torches I mean I was able to step up and enter the little alcove in the wall that holds them. It is super minor but I was very surprised when it happened because it normally doesn't happen in the wads I've played.

 

*UMAPINFO stuff*

 

Whoa that's great! Thanks a bunch for going ahead and doing that, I was just starting to look around through all that to figure it out myself!

 

I tested everything out and it appears to work wonderfully. I went ahead and named the episodes as well.

 

I'll go ahead and flag those lines for the torches too, it's minor, but in the end it's minor to fix as well. I'll go ahead and merge your UMAPINFO edit into my final build and double make sure to mention your help in the credits! Thanks again!

[HackNeyed]

18 hours ago, Rayziik said:

I'll go ahead and merge your UMAPINFO edit into my final build and double make sure to mention your help in the credits! Thanks again!

 

No worries I'm glad to help!

...

By the way, I noticed there is no ENDOOM lump so for some reason instead of playing the wad or washing the dishes my brain decided that it would be fun to learn how to ENDOOM. I've spent the evening creating this incredibly un-imaginative collection of ASCII characters to see how its done. I kind of like it so I offer it to you if you want to use it.

 

EDIT: Small update to ENDOOMv2.WAD and an alternate slightly animated version ENDOOMv2-blink.WAD. If you want to use it but would like some changes just let me know.

 

ENDOOMv2.zip

Edited November 9, 2021 by HackNeyed

[Firedust]

Finished Episode 2. Finding the secret exit in map 8 was an absolute bitch; that first switch in the sequence had me bamboozled. Funnily enough I found E2 to be much easier compared to E1, mainly because I could blast everything away with rockets and cells without a second thought, while E1 was more reliant on SSG, which made a couple encounters more annoying than they should be. Looking forward to killing more shit in the upcoming maps :3

Edited November 9, 2021 by Firedust

[Rayziik]

12 hours ago, HackNeyed said:

I kind of like it so I offer it to you if you want to use it.

 

It's wonderful, I'll go ahead and add it in as well.

 

3 hours ago, Firedust said:

Finding the secret exit in map 8 was an absolute bitch; that first switch in the sequence had me bamboozled.

 

I've considered changing the torches to sort of tie them together as the places to look, I figured the blind searching might be more annoying than anything.

[Firedust]

17 hours ago, Rayziik said:

I've considered changing the torches to sort of tie them together as the places to look, I figured the blind searching might be more annoying than anything.

I think the main issue with this is that the second torch in the sequence is far off so unless you're like me who's desperately trying to 100% every single map, you probably won't give it more than a couple tries before giving up the search for what the first switch actually triggered. You can't even hear the thing open unless you're VERY close to it. Moving the third switch further away is fine because then at least the player will get the general gist of examining every torch for a potential switch on a timer.

 

I just beat map 32 and the cyb in the bottom right teleport closet never spawned in, not sure why. No idea what's supposed to trigger it or where. Killed everything else and got the 1 secret.

 

EDIT: I think there are two broken triggers  for silent-teleporting hellknights in the eastern wing on Map 18 (Mourning Palace).

Edited November 10, 2021 by Firedust

[Rayziik]

4 hours ago, Firedust said:

I just beat map 32 and the cyb in the bottom right teleport closet never spawned in, not sure why. No idea what's supposed to trigger it or where. Killed everything else and got the 1 secret.

 

EDIT: I think there are two broken triggers  for silent-teleporting hellknights in the eastern wing on Map 18 (Mourning Palace). 

 

Fixed that stuck cyber, had the floor too high up for him to actually move.

 

Did one of the hell knights get stuck in the wall again? Otherwise they're supposed to warp back and forth down that hallway silently, and they will block each other from teleporting if one or the other is stopped on one of the receiving lines.

[Firedust]

13 minutes ago, Rayziik said:

 

Fixed that stuck cyber, had the floor too high up for him to actually move.

 

Did one of the hell knights get stuck in the wall again? Otherwise they're supposed to warp back and forth down that hallway silently, and they will block each other from teleporting if one or the other is stopped on one of the receiving lines.

Not sure, but the other ones teleported in just fine upon opening the white marked doors and pressing the white marked switches (the ones that lower the bars). There was nothing to block the remaining two hell knights because everything else's been killed.

[Rayziik]

Ohhhhhhh you actually meant in MAP19. Gotcha, originally there was just a fail safe mechanic to that monster deployment system, so I went ahead and added a bunch of redundancy to try and make sure the monsters end up where they're supposed to, when they're supposed to. If that still fails they end up in the map center, for better or worse.

[Firedust]

2 hours ago, Rayziik said:

Ohhhhhhh you actually meant in MAP19. Gotcha, originally there was just a fail safe mechanic to that monster deployment system, so I went ahead and added a bunch of redundancy to try and make sure the monsters end up where they're supposed to, when they're supposed to. If that still fails they end up in the map center, for better or worse.

Sorry, mixed up the map number. The name is Mourning Palace.

 

On map 24 (Devil's Orchard), there are two monsters that don't teleport in (elongated south-eastern closet). One just keeps riding the treadmill thing without the linedef activating and the other is stuck for whatever reason (the cyb).

 

EDIT: It appears I'm stuck on Map 25. After moving the red key around, I survived the chaingunner/HK ambush, and now I have no idea what to do. Is there a switch to lower it?

Edited November 10, 2021 by Firedust

[Rayziik]

31 minutes ago, Firedust said:

On map 24 (Devil's Orchard), there are two monsters that don't teleport in (elongated south-eastern closet). One just keeps riding the treadmill thing without the linedef activating and the other is stuck for whatever reason (the cyb).

 

EDIT: It appears I'm stuck on Map 25. After moving the red key around, I survived the chaingunner/HK ambush, and now I have no idea what to do. Is there a switch to lower it? 

 

MAP24 stuff is fixed, that sequence in 25 is timed, eventually that floor should lower down after roughly 20 seconds. I've tried it 5 times and haven't been able to get stuck yet so maybe something else is happening.

[Firedust]

1 minute ago, Rayziik said:

 

MAP24 stuff is fixed, that sequence in 25 is timed, eventually that floor should lower down after roughly 20 seconds. I've tried it 5 times and haven't been able to get stuck yet so maybe something else is happening.

The two switches on either side of the key lowered, but the key itself didn't.

[Rayziik]

That's very peculiar. The switches are the last thing that should lower in that sequence. Is this happening consistently? Also what port are you using?

 

EDIT: I see, in GZDoom it's teleporting way too high and getting stuck on the bookcase. Is that what you're talking of?

Edited November 11, 2021 by Rayziik

[Firedust]

GZDoom v4.7.1. Happened twice. Gonna try again in a sec.

 

EDIT: Yep, same problem. Beat the fight without using the BFG, still no dice. The raised fence lowers back first, then the switches, then nothing happens. The key basically stays hovering over.

Edited November 11, 2021 by Firedust

[Firedust]

25 minutes ago, Rayziik said:

EDIT: I see, in GZDoom it's teleporting way too high and getting stuck on the bookcase. Is that what you're talking of?

Apologies for the double post. It's not on top of the bookcase, but it does get raised quite high.

[Rayziik]

Ok, I think I've fixed it reliably now. Try this version:

 

Check OP for the latest version! (11/18/2021)

 

Since that's a softlock I'll just drop this in as an incremental release. Other changes are NOT in yet, but are still taken care of in the final version I still need to work on.

Edited November 19, 2021 by Rayziik : RC3.1 no longer available

[HackNeyed]

Judgment-RC3-map05-fda-part2.zip

MAP05 FDA part2 finished. Again I was able to beat it first re-try tonight. Although I'm not sure how considering I accidentally ate one of my own rockets at a wall and was shortly down to 10% health with no armor. yikes!!

 

 

 

But this was funny...

Spoiler

An Imp got stuck preventing the wall from raising.

 

[Pixel Fiend]

Use Chorium soundfont for this wad with the updated soundtrack. Good songs. Default midi sounds silly in comparison. I recommend Chorium for virtually all wads. Never fails to sound cool and properly adjusted. I don't recommend the ChoriumREVA variation in which many instruments are too loud.

 

Is the hunched brown monster supposed to move in hyper speed? (it's great if so)

Even though it is one of the greatest wads of all time I can't force myself to play it consistently like it's work.

Can't believe more people in the thread aren't reporting testing this on Woof. It's literally like Crispy Doom but supports everything. Nothing better to wish for.

[Firedust]

Map 27: Couldn't figure out how to lower the teleporter leading to the Soulsphere secret (the one next to the minigun). Couldn't get all kills either but that may be because the map is big and I missed a pick up or something.

 

Map 28: Two monsters failed to teleport in during the red key switch puzzle because the switches lowered too early.

[Rayziik]

3 hours ago, Firedust said:

Map 27: Couldn't figure out how to lower the teleporter leading to the Soulsphere secret (the one next to the minigun). Couldn't get all kills either but that may be because the map is big and I missed a pick up or something.

 

That secret is triggered by leaving the SSG area and running over to the teleporter while it's lowered. I tested in DSDA and GZ and was able to get all kills.

 

3 hours ago, Firedust said:

Map 28: Two monsters failed to teleport in during the red key switch puzzle because the switches lowered too early.

 

I couldn't replicate this issue. Looking at this system of triggers, there's no way this could happen without also causing a softlock. I think you may have missed something instead.

 

[Firedust]

Thank you for the replies, Rayziik.

 

Here are my final thoughts:

 

The megawad was an absolute blast to play, loved the enemy replacements - although I can't help but wonder... Was the baby caco added in for the pure cuteness factor? I felt bad killing them. It's pretty funny how the knockback effect when you blast them with powerful weaponry is something very similar to kicking a bumblebee. I also wish I got to see more of THAT monster encountered in map 31 :3

 

I greatly enjoyed the majority of the maps but I can't help but wonder if a couple were added for the sake of making Judgment a fullfledged megawad (namely 28, 16, 21). 

 

Favourite maps: 22, 26, 15

 

Favourite episodes: 3, 5

 

Congrats on finally getting this out of the door and thank you for making this awesome mapset!

[Rayziik]

12 hours ago, HackNeyed said:

Judgment-RC3-map05-fda-part2.zip

MAP05 FDA part2 finished. Again I was able to beat it first re-try tonight. Although I'm not sure how considering I accidentally ate one of my own rockets at a wall and was shortly down to 10% health with no armor. yikes!!

 

Finally got a chance to watch this, nice job! Seems a little bit of trial and error eventually gets it done, although that first run you did in part one was sooooooo close that I would've personally moved on from it. Thanks for the demos!

 

9 hours ago, game said:

Is the hunched brown monster supposed to move in hyper speed? (it's great if so)

 

Yea he's meant to be incredibly fast. I suggest holding onto some extra bullets for the minigun, or to back up into a corner and be ready with a shotgun.

 

1 hour ago, Firedust said:

The megawad was an absolute blast to play, loved the enemy replacements - although I can't help but wonder... Was the baby caco added in for the pure cuteness factor? I felt bad killing them. It's pretty funny how the knockback effect when you blast them with powerful weaponry is something very similar to kicking a bumblebee. I also wish I got to see more of THAT monster encountered in map 31 :3

 

I greatly enjoyed the majority of the maps but I can't help but wonder if a couple were added for the sake of making Judgment a fullfledged megawad (namely 28, 16, 21). 

 

Thanks for playing! I'm glad you enjoyed it.

 

The baby caco was a spur of the moment addition, once I converted everything to MBF21. I was actually playing MAP28 during testing and thought that the caco swarm there seemed kinda lacking. About 20 minutes later the baby cacos were in. The fact they can be blasted away was just a cherry on top honestly, I cracked up the first few times I saw it happen so I decided it was going to stay that way. As for THAT monster, it was a last minute addition as well, I was in the process of setting up the final bits of that map and was thinking about adding another boss monster just for that map. Then I figured out how to do all of THAT and the other thing and there's what I ended up with. A pissed off monster that's not too happy to see you in his grove.

 

MAP16 and MAP21 were intentionally designed to serve as episode openers, on top of that, I used them to play with some concepts like 16 having only the automatic weapons and a berserk, or 21 with the 'obviously inspired gimmick' room at the start. MAP28 was kind of supposed to be the same thing, but I didn't want to rearrange the maps and I feel like it provides a good breather map before the titanic MAP29. It does feature 3 things that I felt having in a longer map might be annoying, the cyberdemon tightrope fight, the teleport pillar fight, and of course the various death pits.

[boom_compatible]

I just finished this gorgeous wad!

about map27:

Spoiler

Player may get stuck behind the lifts after blue key lift

 

Also, player will get stuck if revisit the invisible lift to get BFG

 

[Rayziik]

1 hour ago, boom_compatible said:

I just finished this gorgeous wad!

about map27:

 

Thanks for playing!

 

Those issues are now fixed in my final version that should be posted later this week, along with some mid-tex bleeding issues I noticed when I went to investigate those two problems. Thanks for the reports!

[Rayziik]

Not final, check OP again...

-

 

As a little bonus, here's 6 maps that were cut from the project in mid 2015. These maps aren't very good, and you'll probably understand why they were removed if you play them. But it's an interesting look at what could have been anyways!

 

This set of maps will run in any port that supports Boom compatibility (-complevel 09) and should contain everything inside the .wad.

 

Judgment Rejects - Standalone (11/18/2021) • Mirror

Edited December 3, 2021 by Rayziik : Not final actually

[HackNeyed]

Congratulations on the release! This is a really cool project! I look forward to playing the rest when I have some more free time. Thank you for all of your hard work and extra kudos for the cut content as well!

 

P.S. Thanks for the credit. I'm glad I could help. :)

Edited November 19, 2021 by HackNeyed