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Senor Cacodemon

I didn't really like Doom 3

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I didn't really like Doom 3 because in my opinion it strayed away really far from what doom is in my opinion. Now the more advanced technology gave IDGames a better chance to create a new game but when I think about Doom I think about massive demon murdering not walking in a dark hall way slowly with a flashlight awaiting a monster to come out at any second. I think Doom 3 would have been better if they didn't title it Doom 3 maybe something related to Doom but I think Doom 3 is just its own thing and not doom. When I think of Doom 3 I think of Doom 64 because Doom 64 still has that iconic Doom vibe in which your just a cool marine killing demons with your super shotgun but when I play Doom 3 and I have to do a puzzle I'm like. Where is the fast paced combat and everything, I have one little piece left to say, the shotgun from far away is kind of poop ngl. That's all, I'm not trying to say if you like Doom 3 you suck and your opinion is bad, I'm not saying that at all. If you like Doom 3 than go play Doom 3 like this rant never existed but I just wanted to say this so yeah. Leave your thoughts if you agree or disagree.

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2 hours ago, Senor Cacodemon said:

the shotgun from far away is kind of poop

 

Well, I mean a shotgun isn't meant to be a sniper rifle. Doom 3's shotgun is best suited for close-to-medium-range work, just like shotguns IRL.

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Thank you for sharing, I've never heard these criticisms before, certainly not hundreds of times already.

 

Joking and polite jabbing aside, there are a number of popular cult games I've played that give me the mild feeling I'm taking crazy pills for not enjoying, but Doom 3 has always been divisive for the exact reasons you've listed, especially among classic Doom fans so I can assure you that you're not alone. I definitely understand the desire to voice your opinion. It took more energy than I'd like to admit to refrain from blasting my hot takes about Doom Eternal when it came out. I did eventually find my own way to enjoy it, by muting all dialogue, skipping every cutscene, ignoring the automap and all its "secrets" and collectibles, and ended up really enjoying the game.

 

Because you're posting about Doom 3 at all in a new thread when there already exist several relevant threads makes me feel that there is something about the game that drew you in, even if it didn't live up to your expectations, and that you want to talk about it and share experiences. So I hereby challenge you to play part of it again, and report back with at least one thing you do enjoy about the game. Of course you have no obligation to do so, but I'll challenge myself at the same time by replaying Doom 64 and come up with at least one thing I enjoy about that. I could never get into it before but I'm open to change my mind.

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1 hour ago, MFG38 said:

 

Well, I mean a shotgun isn't meant to be a sniper rifle. Doom 3's shotgun is best suited for close-to-medium-range work, just like shotguns IRL.

Thats fair but I do not really like the bullet spread

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1 hour ago, Lippeth said:

So I hereby challenge you to play part of it again, and report back with at least one thing you do enjoy about the game. 

Alright, challenge accepted, I'll be back in an hour or two

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3 hours ago, Lippeth said:

So I hereby challenge you to play part of it again, and report back with at least one thing you do enjoy about the game. 

Ok so I played until I got the chaingun so it was start, all the way to chaingun. I will admit the assault rife is pretty fun to use but I still really do not like using the shotgun. Also listening to the logs of people through the uac pda is pretty interesting and can reveal alot of the lore. Though I still do not really like the game compared to the other doom games. I would put it pretty low on my list of doom games but I can understand people liking it.

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I'll admit, in the 50+ times I played through Doom 3 from start to finish I've never listened to more than 5% of the audio logs. I always plan to and can never get past the first few before just wanting to play the game. I like the campy tone of the story and voice acting, but unless the story of a game is integrated directly into the gameplay, chances are good that I'll bypass it every time.

 

I played the first few levels of Nightdive's version of Doom 64 and in the first five minutes I got a really bad case of motion sickness, which I'm still trying to recover from. After messing with the settings and even using an emulator to play the original N64 version, I ended up just using a controller to play Nightdive's version and had to stop because the motion sickness got too bad. As far as the good, I do like a lot of the sound effects and understand why they are so prevalent in Doom wads. The puzzles/levels, enemy/weapon sprites and colored sectors aren't my thing but the sound design and ambient soundtrack/music are very good, other than the obvious stock library sound when the player dies. Actually it's more comical than anything, so I'll still consider it a positive.

 

Back to Doom 3. The machine gun sort of takes the place of the shotgun at medium/long range, I really like peppering enemies with it and then switching to the shotgun when they get too close to completely obliterate them. The disappearing skeleton gib effect is over the top and comical, and ends up being pretty satisfying after getting over the absurdity of it. Doom 3 is by no means perfect, but has such a unique and specific charm that I keep coming back. I tend not to directly compare Doom games in my head for the most part, especially if made by different people or being reboot/remake/rehash/redo whateverings. Even Doom 1 and 2 have their own vibes that scratch a different itch depending on my mood. It might be a quirk on my end but I usually enjoy controversial games because it's at least going to be interesting. I'd much rather spend time with a bad game and laugh than fall asleep to a boring yet safe one. Not that I think Doom 3 is bad, but the design choices were definitely bold enough to go either way, and eventually earn the "black sheep" nickname.

 

Okay, I'm going to rest my eyes now to alleviate this motion sickness.

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It's like a curse, Doom3 fans have a place in Doomworld but there's a catch: it's filled with threads about people wanting to have a discussion about not liking the game.

 

More than 10 years of this same $%&#.

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On mardi 2 novembre 2021 at 4:16 PM, MFG38 said:

Well, I mean a shotgun isn't meant to be a sniper rifle. Doom 3's shotgun is best suited for close-to-medium-range work, just like shotguns IRL. 

"Just like shotguns IRL"?

 

So I duckduckwent (I do not google, I duckduckgo) "real shotgun spread" and found this thing: https://www.tactical-life.com/gear/ammo/00-buckshot-ammo-test/; if their data is whack I'll let one of the forum's resident gun nut rant about it, but for the following I'll assume it's reasonably realistic.

Performance
Distance  Mossberg 500 Spread  Mossberg 590A1 Spread  Remington 870 Vang Comp Spread
12         1.00                 1.50                   1.00
30         2.50                 2.25                   2.00
50         5.50                 5.75                   9.00
60         7.00                 7.00                   9.00
75        10.50                 9.00                  11.50

*Distance in feet and buckshot spread in inches.

A quick spreadsheet told me the highest spread-to-distance ratio in there is the Remington 870 at 50 feet. So I'll use that as my baseline of terrible shotgun spread of lameness.

 

Speaking of lameness, this is all in these stupid archaic Imperial units. But it takes more than that to deter me. 50 feet is 600 inches.

 

Next step: Wikipedia! Our adjacent is 600 inches, our opposite is 9 inches, so we just do atan(9/600) and we get our angle! Calculator gives me this:

Quote

atan(9 / 600) =

0.0149988752 rad

 

Alright. We'll round that up to 0.015 rad to make our spread figure worse. Now one radian is equal to 180°, so basically to get degrees we multiply by 180/π. That's about 57.3, but we'll round it up to 60 so as to make sure we get an unrealistically exaggerated spread. 0.015 * 60 = 0.9°

 

Alright. This is our awful shotgun spread value: 0.9°. Not 9°, but 0.9°. Less than one.

 

 

Now let's go take a look at the data for the Doom 3 shotgun. Here: https://doomwiki.org/wiki/Shotgun_(Doom_3)

Quote

Spread (°) 22

 

That's 24.44444... times the spread we have computed for the rounding up of the worst case of real shotgun spread measured by people on the internet.

 

 

Amusingly, in deathmatch they halved the spread to attempt to reduce the Doom 3's terribleness.

 

But the facts are in, and the Doom 3 shotgun is basically an alternative to the chainsaw. Melee combat only. Don't even think about using it at medium range.

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55 minutes ago, Gez said:

"Just like shotguns IRL"?

 

So I duckduckwent (I do not google, I duckduckgo) "real shotgun spread" and found this thing: https://www.tactical-life.com/gear/ammo/00-buckshot-ammo-test/; if their data is whack I'll let one of the forum's resident gun nut rant about it, but for the following I'll assume it's reasonably realistic.


Performance
Distance  Mossberg 500 Spread  Mossberg 590A1 Spread  Remington 870 Vang Comp Spread
12         1.00                 1.50                   1.00
30         2.50                 2.25                   2.00
50         5.50                 5.75                   9.00
60         7.00                 7.00                   9.00
75        10.50                 9.00                  11.50

*Distance in feet and buckshot spread in inches.

A quick spreadsheet told me the highest spread-to-distance ratio in there is the Remington 870 at 50 feet. So I'll use that as my baseline of terrible shotgun spread of lameness.

 

Speaking of lameness, this is all in these stupid archaic Imperial units. But it takes more than that to deter me. 50 feet is 600 inches.

 

Next step: Wikipedia! Our adjacent is 600 inches, our opposite is 9 inches, so we just do atan(9/600) and we get our angle! Calculator gives me this:

 

Alright. We'll round that up to 0.015 rad to make our spread figure worse. Now one radian is equal to 180°, so basically to get degrees we multiply by 180/π. That's about 57.3, but we'll round it up to 60 so as to make sure we get an unrealistically exaggerated spread. 0.015 * 60 = 0.9°

 

Alright. This is our awful shotgun spread value: 0.9°. Not 9°, but 0.9°. Less than one.

 

 

Now let's go take a look at the data for the Doom 3 shotgun. Here: https://doomwiki.org/wiki/Shotgun_(Doom_3)

 

That's 24.44444... times the spread we have computed for the rounding up of the worst case of real shotgun spread measured by people on the internet.

 

 

Amusingly, in deathmatch they halved the spread to attempt to reduce the Doom 3's terribleness.

 

But the facts are in, and the Doom 3 shotgun is basically an alternative to the chainsaw. Melee combat only. Don't even think about using it at medium range.

You went all out on this

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Taking into account the average spread of birdshot, which based on the data here and my own casual knowledge would be about 1.8°, or about double. Even different barrel lengths/cylinder chokes which would change the spread pattern and/or velocity to a degree, but nothing as drastic as Doom 3.

 

If real shotguns had the spread of Doom 3, it would arguably be as dangerous to stand beside the person firing as it would be in front of them.

 

But as a game mechanic combined with Doom 3's level design it works well enough for me. Realism works well in some games, but pop culture mechanics and gun logic never bothered me too much.

 

If anything were to bother me slightly about Doom 3's shotgun and pistol it would be the reloading animations. The final pump after reloading the shotgun would eject a live round unless you're totally empty, and even then you would have room for one more shell after the pump. Pulling the slide back on a pistol with a half full magazine would also eject the chambered round. The slide would only open on its own after firing the last round from the magazine with a real pistol. So many games still get this wrong and I notice it every time, but it never really affects the gameplay so it's fine I guess if the game's still fun.

Edited by Lippeth

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10 hours ago, Gez said:

.

 

But the facts are in, and the Doom 3 shotgun is basically an alternative to the chainsaw. Melee combat only. Don't even think about using it at medium range.

 

You can one hit Enemies with it, but you have to get close.

As mentioned in other Threads before, pretty nice Design for such Game that is deisgned to give you the Feel of being vulnerable.

To overcome your Fear to get the one Hit, your normal Reaction is mostly to keep Distance.

 

But when learned, the Shotgun is nearly overpowered.

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DOOM 3 looked cool. I've always felt they got the look right. The shotgun and the plasma rifle and maybe the chainsaw are the only weapons in that game I actually enjoyed using. The Berserk was really interesting, what a shame it occurs all of twice. -_- 

I will say this of the shotgun in DOOM 3, just like in the originals, if you can get close with it, it's still in some sense the great leveler. Used properly, it'll hurt any of the demons at least a bit.

I don't like how a decent number of the major fights in that game begin with scripted events. You're always jammed into a small area. In some phases of the game there is back tracking but otherwise everything is too linear. 

I especially don't like that the Demons are so much more agile than the player is. In classic DOOM, DOOMGUY's speed and agility are your main advantages in addition to the adaptability of being able to equip so many weapons. With Imps diving at you from the ceiling in DOOM 3, you're just sorta always out classed, even if you do win a given engagement. 

I don't know where the Soul Cube came from, that thing was goofy, that's like something I'd invent for a game, that's not how they should have done it. 

They certainly did make it suspenseful, you are constantly thinking, who's gonna be my friend, and where are they coming from. But that's the game's one trick.

I did like the Enpro Plant, when you're fighting with the little robot thingies and the place is flying apart, that was a cool sequence. I also liked the Alpha Labs, especially Sector 4, that was pretty dope. It was okay, but it was not DOOM. I remember the wait and the lead up and the hype and I remember being REALLY disappointed. 

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Yeah, I enjoyed Doom³ as well. I can understand what OP is getting though... the game did feel inconsistent at times, and it just did not seem scary to me at all. The issue with the latter is that you're either basically expect an enemy to pop up on you, you're not playing in the dark, or you're just too brave. (For me, that would be the third one.)

 

Yes sir, Doom³ was a lot different compared to the classic games. I remember people complaining about it being too dark and calling for the duct-tape mod.

There is a mod called Perfected Doom³ that claims to fix most of the issues, but since it completely overhauls the game, I'm not sure if it makes it better or worse... ¯\_(ツ)_/¯

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On 11/2/2021 at 8:16 PM, MFG38 said:

Doom 3's shotgun is best suited for close-to-medium-range work, just like shotguns IRL.

 

Whats funny is that Doom 3's shotgun is not realistic at all. While shotguns aren't snipers, they have pretty decent range in real life. Regular shotty in Doom 1/2 is actually closer to real life than Doom 3's shotty.

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29 minutes ago, ReaperAA said:

 

Whats funny is that Doom 3's shotgun is not realistic at all. While shotguns aren't snipers, they have pretty decent range in real life. Regular shotty in Doom 1/2 is actually closer to real life than Doom 3's shotty.

Yes

 

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DOOM 3 is very underrated and I can't believe it isnt at the same level when it comes to ports, tools, software, community and activity as doom 1 and 2

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Really my thoughts on doom 3 can be summed up in a few words: Interesting ideas, lackluster execution.

 

I tolerate Doom 3 because of one single reason: STEVE.BLUM.

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2 hours ago, Silent Wolf said:

I tolerate Doom 3 because of one single reason: STEVE.BLUM.

He's a big reason why I still play games like Doom 3, Quake 4, Rage, etc. I still like all those games on their own, but hearing Blum's voice pop up here and there just makes any game better.

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On 11/2/2021 at 12:16 PM, MFG38 said:

 

Well, I mean a shotgun isn't meant to be a sniper rifle. Doom 3's shotgun is best suited for close-to-medium-range work, just like shotguns IRL.

i dont think anyone wants it to be a sniper rifle they want it to be a medium range weapon 

 

doom 3 shotgun is close range its too weak for anything that isnt in your face

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On 11/2/2021 at 6:50 PM, Senor Cacodemon said:

Ok so I played until I got the chaingun so it was start, all the way to chaingun. I will admit the assault rife is pretty fun to use but I still really do not like using the shotgun. Also listening to the logs of people through the uac pda is pretty interesting and can reveal alot of the lore. Though I still do not really like the game compared to the other doom games. I would put it pretty low on my list of doom games but I can understand people liking it.

 

If you're looking for a bit more shooty-bang-bang perhaps you should check out Lost Mission found in the BFG release (it's also playable on vanilla D3 but I can't vouch for it).  It seems most players don't really rate it but I think it's a lot of fun.  It's short, fast and has a great finale. :)

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On 11/2/2021 at 8:29 AM, Senor Cacodemon said:

 I think Doom 3 would have been better if they didn't title it Doom 3 maybe something related to Doom but I think Doom 3 is just its own thing and not doom. 

 

It did. The title is styled Doom³ (pronounced Doom Cubed, as in 3D) and ditches the Roman Numeral system used for Doom II: Hell on Earth. 

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Not liking Doom 3 means all your senses are working correctly. It's an awful excuse for a video game, and not just "a bad Doom game" like some people claim. It was impressive when it came out from an audiovisual perspective, but that's it. It sucks as a shooter, it sucks as a horror game, the story sucks, the level design sucks. 

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10 minutes ago, famicommander said:

Not liking Doom 3 means all your senses are working correctly. It's an awful excuse for a video game, and not just "a bad Doom game" like some people claim. It was impressive when it came out from an audiovisual perspective, but that's it. It sucks as a shooter, it sucks as a horror game, the story sucks, the level design sucks. 

Doom 3 is great, actually, and a perfectly fine Doom game to boot, with a good story and some impressive visual and audio design.

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Doom 3 is fantastic. Bits of it drag a bit (looking at you alpha labs) but overall thoroughly enjoyable. The hell in Doom 3 is the best hell to date of any Doom game.

And anyone claiming it's "not a doom game" is very much forgetting that Doom 1 played pretty much the same when it was released. Gloomy oppressive design that was scary as hell when it first came out. The corridor section of E1M4 would have me literally frozen in fear when I first played it. I could make a very strong argument that Doom 3 is closer to the original concept than D16/DE (both of which are still excellent games of course), the latter being closer to modern wad design.

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My biggest qualm with Doom 3 was the encounter design. The first time you get ambushed by an imp after opening a door, you'll likely scream of horror and say "Damn, the game got me there." But then they do this over a dozen times through the game and before long you learn to run away from doors as you open them. Likewise, the enemy spawning do get predictable after a while and you'll learn the patterns of enemy spawns before long. Collect a key item, kill the imp that spawns next to you, then rush to the near hallway and intercept the other imp that spawned there.

 

It's too bad because the game looks and sounds amazing otherwise. Still wished that they would have had subtitles for the logs and conversations. Even the BFG Edition didn't have any, which was a big shame.

 

Most of people's complaints about this game boils down to "it didn't play like doom". If the game had another name, it probably would have been lauded with acclaim. Personally, I find the game all right.

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1 minute ago, PsychEyeball said:

My biggest qualm with Doom 3 was the encounter design. The first time you get ambushed by an imp after opening a door, you'll likely scream of horror and say "Damn, the game got me there." But then they do this over a dozen times through the game and before long you learn to run away from doors as you open them. Likewise, the enemy spawning do get predictable after a while and you'll learn the patterns of enemy spawns before long. Collect a key item, kill the imp that spawns next to you, then rush to the near hallway and intercept the other imp that spawned there.


Can agree with the imp encounters. I pretty much got to the point where I just did a disappointed sigh every time I got jumped by an imp behind a door. Otherwise, for its time it's still a fantastic game. I remember very clearly the cutscene when the maggots were introduced and it still gives me chills to this day. Doom 3 hell is also amazing and you can't change my mind

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Addendum: Doom 3 VR is a neat alternative take on the experience and can have its own fair share of moments, simply by changing the perspective:

 

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I hated the way the monster corpses would just slowly melt away and leave the rooms / corridors pristine. Pretty unimmersive.

 

Got a lot of little peeves about Doom 3 but i get where Carmack was coming from - trying to make a more realistic, scarier Doom instead of a better action romp. 

 

Overall I think Doom3's not amazing....just ok.

 

 

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4 hours ago, Edward850 said:

Doom 3 is great, actually, and a perfectly fine Doom game to boot, with a good story and some impressive visual and audio design.

1. Nuh-Uh!

2. My dad could totally beat up your dad!

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