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CBM

DOOM Gaming on LINUX

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i think you need to keep in mind how big of a change it is to switch to linux

 

sure you mostly use your pc for doom stuff but you still need to take into consideration everything else you also do on your computer

 

about wine one thing i noticed is that it has longer load times when compared to native windows and in some games that use constant streaming of textures and music can cause lag but if you have a fast hdd or ssd it should int be an issue

 

native ports run faster 99% of the time at least on my experience

 

even emulators for exemple kingdom hearts pcxe2 on was so slow when was on windows that it was completely unplayable ob linux i can run it just fine with the rare frame drop here and there

 

same thing with dolphin and ppsspp fewer slowdowns and frame drops even if i enable the visual enhancing features of them

 

if you play lots of online games i would suggest you to dual boot windows and linux to play them

 

you WILL have to use the command line though despite what you might have heard many things that the more casual public use will require it like fan made source ports and other utilities like that

 

its no big deal though most of the time you will use it it will just be copying and paste from a forum or website

 

edit: i put "doom" instead of "do" lol

Edited by omalefico32x

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3 hours ago, Gibbon said:

Ooof you're taking a big risk there.  Sometimes users who have no knowledge of programming aren't the best ones to say "I will help you" to do it, because then you're on the hook for any newbie questions and believe me it's a time sink.

 

I also don't believe that just to use Linux you need to be able to compile.  Plenty of users especially to Ubuntu are coming from Windows and want something that works.  However it's good you've said it because now you're the 'compiler questioner'.

 

Sure I like helping people but there is a minimum amount of knowledge someone should have, such as knowing their system, knowing what dependencies they have, knowing how to invoke a compiler and knowing their libc version.

 

But go ahead, makes no difference to me in providing the binaries.

Nice passive aggression.

Stop being angry that I'm willing to teach people how as opposed to letting them take an easy way out.

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36 minutes ago, act said:

Nice passive aggression.

Stop being angry that I'm willing to teach people how as opposed to letting them take an easy way out.

Who said I'm angry?  I don't see it.

 

Most here could say I'm pretty darn easygoing.  I was only explaining what it's for that all..  sheesh.

Edited by Gibbon

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1 hour ago, act said:

Nice passive aggression.

For one, he isn't. Its easier explaining when someone has a starter level understanding of things than when you have to explain the basics.

 

Trust me, i know, having to listen to daily medical staff. And my coping level is pretty high on that regard.

1 hour ago, act said:

Stop being angry that I'm willing to teach people how as opposed to letting them take an easy way out.

We have wikis and search buttons that teach people. 

 

Now, if only those people actually used them... :P

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Debian user here since a couple of years. Some pros and cons:

 

NEUTRAL:

  • GzDoom and other source ports works as well in Linux as Windows.
  • Easy binary installation because you have some source ports in the repository or deb files are distributed in websites

CONS:

  • Windows graphical drivers have better performance that Linux
  • A few lazy devs don't share compiled packages

PROS:

  • Console commands, to run your maps, are way more comfortable to use in Linux's terminal than Windows terminal

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8 hours ago, Gibbon said:

Indeed it does, the danger however is when compilation doesn't go to plan and you need to fix some code files or a few lines to make it work.  Compilation is indeed easy, but it doesn't always go that way. 

You have a valid point.

 

But I think act might view that as a challenge. One that he is willing to take on.

As someone who has been a teacher at a university college at one point, I can understand why he would find such a challenge compelling.

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6 hours ago, Redneckerz said:

We have wikis and search buttons that teach people. 

 

Now, if only those people actually used them... :P

Yeah. But sometimes people can miss that information and requires terms and concepts to be defined to them alongside with support for their situation for them to grasp the concept on a larger scale.

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4 minutes ago, act said:

Yeah. But sometimes people can miss that information and requires terms and concepts to be defined to them alongside with support for their situation for them to grasp the concept on a larger scale.

Exactly and sometimes helping people also means that the person helping learns something new because it gives the person another kind of motivation to look stuff up.

 

I have just learned about how to make a library of map functions that can be included and used in multiple maps by helping to answer that very question, so I have finally taken my first steps towards getting to know ACS better

 

I am still trying to figure out what the relationship, if any, is between ACS and ZScript.

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3 hours ago, act said:

Yeah. But sometimes people can miss that information and requires terms and concepts to be defined to them alongside with support for their situation for them to grasp the concept on a larger scale.

A wiki does exactly that, defining things. If anything, if you want to teach someone something, you look at past threads and refer to the definition.

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Hey, please. Don't discuss like this, it will happen the same as in the Windows 11 confirmed for 64 bit thread. 

Back on the topic, I've compiled crispy-doom and dsda-doom in Ubuntu before, and the only problem I had was downloading something (I don't remember what), but after that compiling was very easy

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On 11/4/2021 at 4:46 PM, edmund said:

Thanks for asking this question! I was watching a stream and asking people if the DOOM game was working on Linux. No one seemed to have an answer, now I know!

As a random fact, DOOM is among the first things people port to other OSes! There're some very, very underground operating systems like Redox, HaikuOS, and SerenityOS. Each must have like two hundred users at most...

 

And they all run DOOM!

 

DOOM is the sine qua non of software. After the kernel, the OS libraries, and the compiler, you must have a working DOOM port. Period.

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5 minutes ago, Dragonker said:

As a random fact, DOOM is the first thing people port to other OSes! There're some very, very underground operating systems like Redox, HaikuOS, and SerenityOS. Each must have like two hundred users at most...

 

And they all run DOOM!

 

DOOM is the sine qua non of software. After the kernel, the OS libraries, and the compiler, you must have a working DOOM port. Period.

You are not wrong.

I have a large collection of various older more or less obscure gadgets and devices and they ALL... run DOOM!

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11 hours ago, Redneckerz said:

A wiki does exactly that, defining things. If anything, if you want to teach someone something, you look at past threads and refer to the definition.

Yeah, but sometimes a wiki will fail on that.

I'm assuming you probably have a bias towards the effectiveness and quality of a wiki because you're a moderator on a wiki. Now don't get me wrong; the Doom Wiki, ZDoom Wiki, and EDuke32 Wiki are all excellent with beautiful amounts of knowledge all perfectly organized. They're so good in fact, that when I tried my hand at making maps for GoldSrc, I found myself unreasonably angry at a community of Half-Life modders who had a wiki of their own for the past 10 years or so. The wiki was terrible; poorly organized articles, very few articles on fundamental concepts, (For example a wiki article on a specific thing was nonexistant; rather there were only articles on what to do with the things.) things were poorly described and explained.
I ended up getting so mad at them, and blew up on some guy who asked me a mother of a redundant question. He asked me essentially if my car was able to drive or not at an automotive shop after he seen me drive my car into shop. I ended up getting banned, and my only wiki article that I wrote deleted. I'd say it was a good article, apparently a few others thought the same too. But from that experience, I think I've learned that it's important to provide good resources for learning. Teaching is the most important concept to humanity, and even if you're doing it for free, it's important to offer a quality attempt as opposed to just lazily doing it.

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8 minutes ago, act said:

Yeah, but sometimes a wiki will fail on that.

On a personal level, i agree. A wiki provides a broad definition; It does not provide an exact minutae explanation of how to achieve things, althought a wiki can be utilized for that purpose. However, the DoomWiki is not a guide wiki but a wiki written as if it were an encyclopedia.

 

What i get from your take is that you seek both the definition and an explanation.

 

8 minutes ago, act said:

But from that experience, I think I've learned that it's important to provide good resources for learning. Teaching is the most important concept to humanity, and even if you're doing it for free, it's important to offer a quality attempt as opposed to just lazily doing it.

Greater words have yet to be spoken :) Very persuasive, dear Act!

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4 minutes ago, Redneckerz said:

the DoomWiki is not a guide wiki but a wiki written as if it were an encyclopedia.

I know, and that's why I love it so much. It gives such a good explanation on how and what that you can piece together what to do. Maybe it's because of Doom's ironic simplicity behind all of it's complexities - the RNG for Doom is a perfect example - or something else, but the resources available for Doom is a perfect example on how to document anything.

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That I think we can all agree on.  Lucky for us, we have awesome wiki editors to do just that.  I agree that it would be nice to host somewhere instructions, it's a shame that nearly no source port really provides these in the readme or some 'INSTALL.txt' file.  That would be great, and I think I'll start adding that into my ports in future, rather than assuming people should know.

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17 hours ago, Lol 6 said:

Hey, please. Don't discuss like this, it will happen the same as in the Windows 11 confirmed for 64 bit thread.

 

Why?

This thread is Linux-related, isn’t it?

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7 hours ago, ducon said:

 

Why?

This thread is Linux-related, isn’t it?

That's not what I meant, I wouldn't like if this thread got away from the main topic, take the thread I mentioned for example, it was about Windows 11 and, in the last 3 pages I think, it turned into a war about how Linux Desktop is not very used and how 32 bit is useless and blah blah blah.

Spoiler

Although I do understand that a discussion is completely normal in the internet, especially in forums where you talk with other people, it's not good when things like this happen

 

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On 11/5/2021 at 1:00 PM, omalefico32x said:

about wine one thing i noticed is that it has longer load times when compared to native windows and in some games that use constant streaming of textures and music can cause lag but if you have a fast hdd or ssd it should int be an issue

 

Wine really shouldn't be slower than Windows (the reverse is often true, even), but one thing that can make a big difference if you're noticing load times in games, is that case-insensitive file name lookups on a case-sensitive file system takes a lot of heuristics on Wine's side of things. To put it simply, if a game is trying to open a file like "Assets.pk3" but on-disk it's "assets.pk3" and it's a case-sensitive file system, Wine will go through case variations on its own to see if it finds a match. Using a case-insensitive tree or file system makes a giant difference for Wine's performance here. Maybe the on-disk file is called "assets.pk3", but an fopen("ASSETS.pk3") will still succeed and won't trigger Wine's heuristics.

 

I've been using ZFS for many years with a case-insensitive Wine file systems, and in the past year or two you can do the same with ext4. Given the latter is way more common, the steps to enable it will basically involve:

 

1. Boot a live DVD/USB, since you can't modify the necessary ext4 feature with it mounted

2. Run "tune2fs -O casefold /dev/sda1" (or replace "sda1" with whatever device your ext4 file system resides on)

3. Reboot

4. Make a new, empty directory. Eg, "mkdir .wine" (if you're going to move an existing install, or rename or backup the existing Wine install)

5. Use chattr to set the casefolding (insensitive) flag: "chattr +F .wine"

 

Now you can enjoy a case-insensitive tree on Linux and Wine won't struggle to fake Windows insensitive behavior on top of a case-sensitive file system (since it no longer is one).

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3 minutes ago, chungy said:

 

Wine really shouldn't be slower than Windows (the reverse is often true, even), but one thing that can make a big difference if you're noticing load times in games, is that case-insensitive file name lookups on a case-sensitive file system takes a lot of heuristics on Wine's side of things. To put it simply, if a game is trying to open a file like "Assets.pk3" but on-disk it's "assets.pk3" and it's a case-sensitive file system, Wine will go through case variations on its own to see if it finds a match. Using a case-insensitive tree or file system makes a giant difference for Wine's performance here. Maybe the on-disk file is called "assets.pk3", but an fopen("ASSETS.pk3") will still succeed and won't trigger Wine's heuristics.

 

I've been using ZFS for many years with a case-insensitive Wine file systems, and in the past year or two you can do the same with ext4. Given the latter is way more common, the steps to enable it will basically involve:

 

1. Boot a live DVD/USB, since you can't modify the necessary ext4 feature with it mounted

2. Run "tune2fs -O casefold /dev/sda1" (or replace "sda1" with whatever device your ext4 file system resides on)

3. Reboot

4. Make a new, empty directory. Eg, "mkdir .wine" (if you're going to move an existing install, or rename or backup the existing Wine install)

5. Use chattr to set the casefolding (insensitive) flag: "chattr +F .wine"

 

Now you can enjoy a case-insensitive tree on Linux and Wine won't struggle to fake Windows insensitive behavior on top of a case-sensitive file system (since it no longer is one).

nice but what about using wine to run software on a windows NTFS volume? that should be case insensitive to begin with right?

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Just now, CBM said:

nice but what about using wine to run software on a windows NTFS volume? that should be case insensitive to begin with right?

No, NTFS is case-sensitive and mounting it in Linux will always result in a case-sensitive file system tree. Windows itself is pulling off tricks to fake case-insensitivity and there are several ways applications can get case-sensitive lookups working on it. It's complicated :)

 

FAT and exFAT are always case-insensitive and those would probably fine enough for Wine. At least exFAT doesn't have file size limits :P

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3 minutes ago, chungy said:

No, NTFS is case-sensitive and mounting it in Linux will always result in a case-sensitive file system tree. Windows itself is pulling off tricks to fake case-insensitivity and there are several ways applications can get case-sensitive lookups working on it. It's complicated :)

 

FAT and exFAT are always case-insensitive and those would probably fine enough for Wine. At least exFAT doesn't have file size limits :P

would the linux filesystem case sentivitity trick work when mounting NTFS volumes in linux?

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31 minutes ago, chungy said:

No, what I described is very specific to ext4, it won't work on any other file system.

ok, cool

 

well from what I understand, many of the "linux native"? filesystems like ext4 are vastly superior to fat, exfat and NTFS anyway :-)

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Superior is subjective. FAT and exFAT are excellent for moving files around when advanced kinds of metadata (eg: ownership, permissions) aren't needed and may be actively harmful.[0] NTFS is good as Windows's native file system, ext4 is good as (one of) Linux's native file system. There is enough feature overlap between NTFS and ext4 that you can actually use NTFS as a fully POSIX-compliant file system on Linux ("mount -o permissions"), but it also tends to make such file systems difficult to use on Windows (permissions and file modes won't mesh with what Windows expects anymore).

 

Permission models tend to be the wedge between the systems. Windows has a rich set of ACLs that can be used to fine-tune permissions on per-group and per-user basis, and Linux... is sorely lacking in the department. Even the "POSIX ACLs" that Linux supports aren't anywhere close to what NTFS has, or even other Unix systems. Sun built upon the NTFS model for NFSv4 ACLs, becoming the native permissions system in their UFS and ZFS; FreeBSD likewise implemented NFSv4 ACLs in their UFS and ZFS. There's a Linux version of ZFS but given the kernel can't support the rich ACLs, it is also limited in this regard.

 

[0] Just as an example: Some external drives get pre-formatted with NTFS and if you try to plug them into different Windows computers that aren't part of the same Active Directory domain, each Windows system will have its own prefix for user account IDs and won't match at all. Trying to read a file written by another system can be difficult or impossible (depending on if you have administrator access). In nearly all cases, exFAT is a much saner choice for some generic file transfer drive.

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6 hours ago, chungy said:

Superior is subjective.

Thanks for that insightfull and detailed overview. You are clearly very knowledgeable about filesystems.

Based on your advice then I think I will use an ext4 volume with case insensitivity for windows software than I intend to run under Linux, once I reach a point where I can get everything ready.

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On 11/2/2021 at 9:11 AM, CBM said:

Hi.

 

I was wondering what the state of DOOM gaming is on Linux?

 

I really really really want to dump Windows 10 (and 11) badly...

But I don't want to do without modern DOOM and associated tools

 

I know GZDoom has a version for Ubuntu and otherwise just provides the sourcecode.

 

Ultimate DOOM Builder doesnt seem to have a Linux precompiled version, just the source code?

 

Slade has what they call a flat pack?

 

From Slade's website ( http://slade.mancubus.net/index.php?page=downloads )

 

I guess SLADE, UDB and GZDoom are the 3 most important pieces of software for modern DOOMING...

 

Noesis is only for windows, any linux alternative?

 

Maverick has no Linux binary but has the source code

 

Anything I've missed? And any signs of DOOM gaming and editing on Linux will become easier in the future?

 

I likely missed a few essential tools for modding in my list...

 

It seems a "complete precompiled packedge" for Debian/Ubuntu/Pop OS and one for Arch/Manjaro is missing

 

 

Probably already answered somewhere in the other pages, but I Doom on nothing but Linux Mint 20, which is basically Ubuntu+ Debian base reworked into a more secure package. Crispy Doom, Chocolate Doom , GZDoom, PrBoom+, LZDoom, Zandronum, Odamex, and even DoomsDay engines all have Debs, or Flatpacks. SLADE3 runs like a dream. Zandro doesn't like my hardware or configuration but it is still a popular choice among Linux Doomers. 

 

GZD 4.7.1 runs like Greased Lightning and PrBoom+ is even smoother still! ZDL-ZDoom Launcher also has a standalone launcher that runs flawless in its tarball. Everything works so well that I took up Doom Modding because it runs like a fit glove with zero issues on my half potato laptop.

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13 minutes ago, kalensar said:

 

Probably already answered somewhere in the other pages, but I Doom on nothing but Linux Mint 20, which is basically Ubuntu+ Debian base reworked into a more secure package. Crispy Doom, Chocolate Doom , GZDoom, PrBoom+, LZDoom, Zandronum, Odamex, and even DoomsDay engines all have Debs, or Flatpacks. SLADE3 runs like a dream. Zandro doesn't like my hardware or configuration but it is still a popular choice among Linux Doomers. 

 

GZD 4.7.1 runs like Greased Lightning and PrBoom+ is even smoother still! ZDL-ZDoom Launcher also has a standalone launcher that runs flawless in its tarball. Everything works so well that I took up Doom Modding because it runs like a fit glove with zero issues on my half potato laptop.

what about k8vavoom?

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11 minutes ago, CBM said:

what about k8vavoom?

That one is not in the software channels, and I have not tested it with WINE or Virtual Machine to know LMAO

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24 minutes ago, kalensar said:

That one is not in the software channels, and I have not tested it with WINE or Virtual Machine to know LMAO

well it seems there is an arch packedge on the git page atleast

 

https://repo.or.cz/k8vavoom.git

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