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rd.

Talk about some custom monsters you like 

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I think for me it would be Valiant's Arachnorb... One of the things that stood out to me about valiant is how it tried to fill gaps in the roster (at least I perceived it that way when I first played it), and the arachnorbs definitely hit that pocket just right: A kind of airborne glass cannon that wouldn't piss me off by drifting who the hell knows where, because they were easily dealt with by way of a well-placed shot, and at the same time they were aggressive enough to warrant some modicum of respect.

 

Other than that I would agree with the 1000 HP cybers due to how enabling they are from a conceptual angle...

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I fell in love with Paradise's Diabolist, and Tortured Soul.

 

The Diabolist serves a similar role to Arch-Viles, being able to apply pressure on the player regardless of what's between them while accomplishing it in a manner that doesn't oppressively control an open space. They're also absolute monsters when it comes to infighting (and can even delete a cyberdemon in seconds) which was fun to route fights around.

 

Tortured Souls and their death cloud created a fun gameplay gimmick of trying to maximize the amount of damage you could make them deal with their cloud, while dealing with everything else going on in fights. It can even be used to stunlock a choke point single-handedly.

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I wished Doom had a Rocket former human who would shoot a player-grade rocket and acted as a glass cannon. I think it would've been a great monster for the roster plus ammo source.

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I'm actually using a lot of custom monsters cause there are a lot of them that are really well made (even if I always end up modifying them in some way x) ), but maybe the best to me are the Stone Imp (and demon), the  Haedexebus and probably the Zombie Fodder.

 

The first for the "fake statue mechanic", it's just great (I actually changed it a lot from the one of the original stone imp in Realm667, but it's amazing anyway) and I love having demons statue in certain kind of map.

The second one especially cause of the texture: it's wonderful, in my opinion the best sprites I've seen so far, not to mention the custom attacks completely new to Doom.

The latter just for it's "Quake version", for he can resurrect itself if you don't mangle him with heavy weapons x)

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I am generally a fan on custom enemies that, as NIH said, try to fill gaps in the existing roster. Some of the enemies that I liked over the years include:

 

Astral Cacodemons (Eviternity)

If there is anything Doom lacks, it is flyers that are fast and dish out damage. The vanilla Doom 2 flyers are only threatening due to their tankiness (mass cacodemons, pain elementals spitting lost souls). The astral caco fills this role nicely. The fast speed and abrupt nature of their attack means that the player has to be proactive when trying to dodge their attacks.

 

Arachnorb (Valiant)

Another enemy that fills the fast and high-dps flyer role. As NIH stated, these guys are good glass cannon flyers that can do decent amount of damage if not paid attention, but can also be killed fairly quickly by a well placed rocket.

 

Black Gargoyles (1000 Lines 3)

In terms of their health, they are similar to Valiant's arachnorbs, but their role is somewhat different. They are not high-dps enemies. Instead, they are supreme harass enemies like no other monster. Their fast speed and small radius means that using projectile weapons (and even the SSG) will usually result in a miss and the best weapon to deal with them is the assault rifle (chaingun replacement of the wad). Thankfully, their firepower is only as good as an imp.

 

Stealth Plasma Aliens (Ancient Aliens)

A take on Scythe 2's evil marines that are much slower and less tanky. There are plenty of variants of "plasma marines" that can be found in different wads, but these are my favorite due to their sneaky nature and how these enemies make chaingun(a normally underused weapon) the best weapon to deal with them.

 

Diabolists (Paradise and other mapsets that use Supercharge/Minicharge)

As Daerik stated, there are archvile variants that can resurrect enemies (and thus create combat urgency), but can be used in an open space more liberally (and not making things unfair) due to their Line of Sight hitscan blast replaced by a delayed area of effect (AoE) attack. This AoE attack can also be used to create arena scenarios where the player has to constantly move in an open field, so as to not get caught by the attacks.

 

 

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10 minutes ago, ReaperAA said:

Black Gargoyles (1000 Lines 3)

In terms of their health, they are similar to Valiant's arachnorbs, but their role is somewhat different. They are not high-dps enemies. Instead, they are supreme harass enemies like no other monster. Their fast speed and small radius means that using projectile weapons (and even the SSG) will usually result in a miss and the best weapon to deal with them is the assault rifle (chaingun replacement of the wad). Thankfully, their firepower is only as good as an imp.

 

Yeah I loved these, and the way 1kL3 implemented custom monsters is good and smart, how every monster is mostly unique to its own episode that has a matching theme (there are only a few exceptions afaik), and how every monster has a fleshed-out identity that is fresh in some way. e1 plasma troopers (probably the most conventional) are unusual for the way they drop tiny bits of cell ammo; e2's gargoyles are hilariously effective at pestering; and e3 has a fresh but still coherent take on the annihilator, with its flamethrower and delayed explosion (the delayed explosion is fun because of how other monsters sometimes wander into it). And of course the boss map stuff is very cool. 

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Jason zombies in MAYhem 2019 are a ton of fun. Very fast (same as you) melee enemies with chainsaws that make you run around like crazy, make any battle chaotic as hell, wish more wads used them.

 

Astral cacodemons from Eviternity are veery creepy and veery cool.

 

Hive mother from Sunder, as ridiculous and lethal as Sunder itself.

 

And +1 to Suicide bombers, less urgent than the Jasons, but way more hilarious.

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35 minutes ago, GarrettChan said:

Nerfed Cyberdemon is a surprising thing where it's so useful and yet simple, but nobody tried it out before Magnolia.

 

STRAIN tried it back in 1997 (but their size was also somewhat reduced there)

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I really love that one zombie who goes AAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAA and explodes in your face. Very funny guy :)

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The fast imps from Strain are cool, just as strong as normal imps but incredibly fast, though they have to stop to shoot. But when they do shoot, it's a dizzying flurry of fire. The speed makes them seem smarter than they actually are -- the randomization element and the amount they move per tic makes it more difficult for them to home right in for melee, so they look like they back off to shoot. In tight hallways they'll just seemingly appear out of nowhere, and they work as like squishier but much more versatile arachnotrons when used as upper-level surveillance.

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Is that drunk Arachnotron a boom monster?

 

As for custom monsters, Astral Cacodemon with the sprint move before attacking is one of my favorites.

I also liked the suicide bomber, which is a very original enemy from Valiant.

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2 hours ago, Uni said:

I wished Doom had a Rocket former human who would shoot a player-grade rocket and acted as a glass cannon. I think it would've been a great monster for the roster plus ammo source.

Obituary from 1995 has this. Make sure to grab the fixed version here

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1 hour ago, ReaperAA said:

 

STRAIN tried it back in 1997 (but their size was also somewhat reduced there)

huh, didn't know that. Thanks for the info.

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I like the tentacle monster, tentacle barrier, tesla coil, shark, shark with laser and hellrose from realm667 as well as all the pirate monsters from pirate doom

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Valiant's arachnorbs, suicide bombers, AAliens drones and stealth dudes, and plasma/bazooka trooper variants here and there (Running Late 2, Obituary, the recent Lunar Laceration), for numerous reasons that have been said already, I like that sweet spot between mid-high demand while consistently destructible in a specific number of shots -- one shotgun shot puts down this fast-shooting trooper, one well-placed SSG or (nearly) always a minimum of two SG shots to kill a tiny speedy flier (low health isn't a requirement, I'm putting examples where hitscan weapons feel at their best for me). The astral cacodemon in Eviternity is an exception owning to how abrasive it can be in a blink of an eye, and most any situation is more like "OMG okay, inhale, few shots, exhale, phew!" that I forget they share the same weird HP from its cousins. It's hard to go wrong with glass canons...  

 

Tanks can be very good (fr)enemies too in a given context, I remember back then being astonished at the power Scythe 2's afrits held when infighting a bunch of cyberdemons in map 30, although when it came to killing one on my own it was a whole other story - on a replay not too long ago, I wasn't all that into their tankiness anymore, but if I were to choose a top-3 hell noble variant, this guy earned a spot solely from its redness fiery aspect. On another note, the cybruiser who owns its pretty silver rocket is slowly growing on me, because it's always cool to see more variety within projectile types outside of zdoom-derived wads, plus thanks to the current mbf21 nothing needs to be sacrificed in order to adopt splash immunity - the most recent example I know is Lunar Laceration.

 

One particular 90's replacement I quite liked is the imp in Obituary. As a former apprentice, it learned most everything the hell knight can do, while preserving the original imp's health and size, so you don't just turn your back on a gang of these thinking it'll feel like tickles, and they're sturdy enough to put up a fight against bulkier monsters and give you an amusing show (I once got a couple belittle a mancubus in seconds). One of my favorite things was to see their paws flash in action, just like their masters used to do. 

 

Most of the STRAIN bestiary would make a really great roster for a CP imo. The old graphics and sfx might clash with the more contemporary view of gameplay mechanics for some people, so an overhaul wouldn't go bad. There's a floating eye that wakes up to the sound of a whisk and shoots an ultra slow homing projectile, a baby-looking cyberdemon whose face is a pixel, or a clownish lost soul that giggles everytime he's about to zap, among other interesting choices that obviously can't be taken too seriously, though I wouldn't want those changed at all (aside from maybe adjustment to HP in general, yeah back to the "number of shots" topic) as that's the kind of quirks that stand out for me among other wads with more serious custom demons. If you think of it, STRAIN polydrones walked so AAliens drone could run... or float, and spin, actually both move the same way, umm, whatever...

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Let me present to you the tiny demons of Quest for Necronomicon:

 

:^)

 

Also, All Hell's monsterset is bizarre and wonderful and deserves mentioning. I suppose that's where my usual taste of custom monsters is. :D

 

WRT Scythe 2's marines, I wish they were in a separate mapset or something; within Scythe 2, they just add randomness to runs which is quite frustrating. They are quite fun in isolated runs, though (like map 31 is fun to go at for a while IMO). Wish they had just a bit less speed and 150 health instead of 250, though.

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3 minutes ago, 4shockblast said:

Also, All Hell's monsterset is bizarre and wonderful and deserves mentioning. I suppose that's where my usual taste of custom monsters is. :D

 

ye, that one could easily be a big post in itself (if I replay it at some point). I'll just leave this: 

 

t81PrPb.gif

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3 minutes ago, 4shockblast said:

Let me present to you the tiny demons of Quest for Necronomicon:

Oh dang, why you put up something I have to play now!

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Really enjoy the strongman from Square. It's a cross between a Maulotaur and Scorpion from MK.

 

 

Edited by RomDump

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4 hours ago, rd. said:

The reason you see these instead of cybruisers is that cyberdemons have a specific feel and tactic set associated with fighting them that is largely preserved by the simple HP reduction. So the nerf mostly unlocks their frequent use in situations that would ordinarily

be too grindy: you can have fun fights against them with weapons as weak as the shotgun, and take down groups and hordes without the BFG. Fun ones.

 

Ya ya, exactly!! That's why the green cyb* is probably my favorite custom monster. It doesn't feel like an addition to the gameplay dynamics of the base game, it just sharpens one aspect a little bit. You could probably even do 1/4 hp cybs in actual vanilla without deh if you really wanted, with some janky crusher trickery (although they would look the same as normal cybers and would not infight them).

 

My problem with a lot of custom monsters (which greencybs avoid) is they lack the sense of "contributing to a transferable skillset that applies to basically any wad" that fighting normal monsters have. When you fight a cyberdemon you're practising skills (and discovering ways to have fun) that you can use on thousands of other levels, but when you fight a scythe 2 afrit... there's only like 20 of them in existence, so kinda what's the point.

 

* - imo the canonical name is green cyb or even greencyb, rather than other things i've heard like "teal cyberdemon" and "cyberdemon knight". Iirc I did the sprite edits for magnolia green cyb but not the deh or the original idea, so I have 33-50% custody.

 

1 hour ago, Deadwing said:

Is that drunk Arachnotron a boom monster?

 

Nop, ww3 is boom but I'm 99% sure it would work in vanilla :D The deh just gives arachs two of the mancubus's attack codepointers. Which is why I call them firespiders.... even though the projectile doesn't look very fiery tbh. If they end up in other wads people will probably end up calling them Arthropod Deacons or something.

 

They haven't been used much (yet?) but I love firespiders. They just make you move (and think about movement) in a really fun way. They take what I love about arachs and make it subtly more threatening and sort of shmup-esque imo. I'm sure we haven't scratched the surface of cool things you can do with them.

 

Other custom mons that are cool: the eyes from magnolia, and their precursors in some other wad (by Purist maybe?) that use archvile attack on you. I have a soft spot for sc2 afrits even though they have obvious flaws. The ridiculous green cacodemons from some TimeOfDeath wads (which I think are taken from or inspired by an earlier wad?) are kinda great too.

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5 hours ago, rd. said:

any rocket zombies that lack splash immunity

The fact that there's some mods out there that make rocket zombies immune to splash damage is a crime. Rocket troopers ftw in any case.

 

Otherwise known as Bazooka Man, or Rocket Zombie, Obituary's rocket trooper is the original glass cannon. It's a simple case of outfitting a zombie with a rocket launcher, and the results end up outright hilarious at the right hands. Sure, they can kill an unsuspecting player easily, especially given Obituary's cramped level layouts which give the rocket trooper a lot of benefit. But that can easily be turned against his poor self if you get him to fire close to a wall, or other enemies. Old, feeble, but still loads of fun, this little guy packed the most dangerous heat any regular zombie could pack, for all around him.

 

Also wasn't there two different kinds of cyberdemons in Supercharge too?

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