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Rudolph

Scythe *Sigh* Syke!

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EDIT: Nevermind. I underestimated the power of monster infighting.

 

So after seeing Scythe get recommended here and there, I started playing it and for the most part I was really enjoying it: short but intense maps without much in the way of puzzles and exploration. But then, I made it to MAP26: Fear and that is where the fun stopped: the map seems to expect of me to spam BFG balls at wave after wave of Revenants, Cacodemons, Hell Knights/Barons of Hell and Mancubi, all the while having to dodge Cyberdemon rockets and watching Arch-Viles undo all your hard work while hiding behind another wave of Revenants, Cacodemons, Hell Knights/Barons of Hell, Mancubi and Cyberdemons.

 

How the hell am I supposed to beat that? Is it even worth pushing through, or the three remaining maps escalate things even further?

 

I am really frustrated from dying so many times and my hand seriously hurt from all the WSADing.

Edited by Rudolph

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Oh dear.

 

I see there is a second Scythe (lol). Is it essentially more of the same or does it steer clear of slaughter maps?

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4 minutes ago, Rudolph said:

Oh dear.

 

I see there is a second Scythe (lol). Is it essentially more of the same or does it steer clear of slaughter maps?

Scythe 2 is actually pretty mild up until you get to the fourth quarter. The last stretch is insane, but the early and middle maps are accessible and very fun. I loved the fact that it was broken up into episodes, with each one having a unique theme.

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Heh.  Here's my review of map26 from when I first played it, quoted in full:

 

On 4/21/2013 at 9:23 AM, Capellan said:

Map26
Boring BFG spam.

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Just now, Rudolph said:

I would rather call it an infuriating BFG spam. :(

 

It's okay to not like something.  Play something else.  It's not like you're short of other Doom maps to try!

 

(The only one of Scythe's last 5 maps that I actually like is map29, btw - you may want to give that a look, at least)

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Well, that is the thing: until MAP26, I was generally enjoying the mapset.

 

I am going to try again on a lower difficulty setting if it becomes more manageable.

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If you're playing on UV, drop down to a lower difficulty. MAP26 still has a lot of monsters on those difficulties, but it's a lot more generous with invulnerability spheres and other powerups. The third episode of Scythe (maps 21-30) is significantly more difficult than the first two, and honestly if the first two episodes are anything but a cakewalk I would recommend lowering the difficulty for the third.

 

Scythe 2 also covers a wide difficulty range, starting off around the same as, or a little harder than, Scythe's early maps, but peaking at a level harder than anything Scythe throws at you. It's divided into six episodes of five maps each (not counting the secret levels), and the difficulty curve's pretty smooth for the first four. I think it does a good job of pacing each episode so that it ramps up over the course of the wad but also within each episode, where the beginning of each episode is a smaller-scale map to familiarize you with the new theme and it picks up from there. Then you hit MAP23 and it's balls to the wall from there on out. You'll know when you reach that level.

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I remember really liking and thinking Map 26 was fun and fair the first time I played it, but then hating Map 30 all the way through. Then again, I did play on HMP.

I believe it is Map 23 of Scythe 2 where I almost rage quit, which has some truly ugly encounters, but then most of Map 24 was much better. I liked Map 30 better in 2, but Map 27 (If I remember...?) was incredibly infuriating in many places. It does come down to taste. I enjoy Skillsaw style slaughtermaps where I have lots of room and ammo to spare.

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just started playing scythe now.... I've beaten the first 4 maps already and it has been very chill so far... I suspect it wont last... LOL

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5 hours ago, Rudolph said:

So after seeing Scythe get recommended here and there, I started playing it and for the most part I was really enjoying it: short but intense maps without much in the way of puzzles and exploration. But then, I made it to MAP26: Fear and that is where the fun stopped: the map seems to expect of me to spam BFG balls at wave after wave of Revenants, Cacodemons, Hell Knights/Barons of Hell and Mancubi, all the while having to dodge Cyberdemon rockets and watching Arch-Viles undo all your hard work while hiding behind another wave of Revenants, Cacodemons, Hell Knights/Barons of Hell, Mancubi and Cyberdemons.

 

How the hell am I supposed to beat that? Is it even worth pushing through, or the three remaining maps escalate things even further?

 

I am really frustrated from dying so many times and my hand seriously hurt from all the WSADing.


The map may look intimidating at first, but it's actually pretty low-pressure for the most part. Leap into the big pit right at the start, keep moving, be aware of your surroundings, don't be afraid to get a bit reckless, since there's a whopping twelve megaspheres in the map. And, if you find yourself getting frustrated, don't be ashamed to switch to lower difficulties, ofc! As a lot of Doom celebs say, your skill doesn't in any way affect your worth as a player.

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I got enjoyment out of Map26 by seeing just how many of the monsters I could kill with infighting alone. It probably won't be fun for everyone though, and took me a fair bit of savescumming. Map28 is one I never truly beat though. My own conditions were "don't bother with monsters unless you absolutely have to, just get the secret and exit". There was one run where I couldn't get the secret and an arachnotron pushed me into the exit after the voodoo doll died, a couple where I died as soon as I reached the secret, and one where I just abused the solo-net parameter by letting myself respawn and then going through at my own pace.

 

With map30 I honestly don't see what the fuss is about. It was hard, but from what I'd heard about it I was expecting to feel the same kind of hopelessness I'd felt during the last two thirds of Hell Revealed. If I'm fighting an Icon of Sin, I don't usually consider my victory legitimate if both the boss and I die, but in HR I was just too exhausted to stick to that rule. And Scythe doesn't even have any boss components other than the Romero Head.

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Once you figure out a good strategy for map26 of scythe, it becomes one of the best if the THE best in the entire megawad.

At least in my opinion.

Take a look at bigmacdavis’s video if you want a good guide to it.

 

 

Map30 will test you far greater than 26 due to having less plentiful ammo, space, and more monsters, almost all of which are high level. You will most likely have to use infighting. When I first played scythe I was able to beat all of it’s maps uvmax with significant effort until 30 which stopped me in my tracks for about a week or so until I broke through and beat it uvmax.

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Indeed, infighting has proven to be a lifesaver. I usually hate it, as it means less monsters for me to kill, but here, it is very much a necessity. I have been replaying Episode III - thank god, a Doom 2 mapset with an episode selection screen - so I could be better prepared for MAP26 and letting monsters take care of each other is making all the difference.

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In 26 you don’t want to stay on the starting platform. Run to the BFG in front of you and then run off the ledge to the lower area. From there you should be able to do things much easier.

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Yeah, that, I figured as much.

 

Anyway, I have beaten the map on UV. It still took me a few tries, usually because of a stray Cyberdemon rocket or me trying to use as few Megaspheres as possible, but I did it. Letting the mob on the starting platform fight among each other in addition to exchanging fire with the Cyberdemons on the other side of the canyon made things considerably easier for me.

 

By the time I got to the exit, I had still plenty of power-ups lying around.

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Oh cool, I only played Scythe for the first time a couple of weeks ago too, after hearing about it for years. They're not all great, but I absolutely love that compact no-filler style. Map22, 24 and 30 were my standouts.

 

Map26, what a switch-up!  I died quite a bit, but I clearly enjoyed the map because I played it twice in a row. The second time I stayed at the starting area. just letting the cybers raise hell. Imagine the caco swarm would have been a real threat if it played with infinite height monsters.

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So MAP27 is a nice breather level but an absolute joke in terms of difficulty and MAP28 is easily the worst level of the entire mapset; with a title like "Run From It", I would have expected something cool akin of Doom 64's "Cat and Mouse", but instead, it is just a mandatory speedrun that seems impossible without health and armor maxed out. Oh well. Fortunately, MAP29 is pretty alright so far. I do not like that it forces a pistol start, but the map layout reminds me of Doom II's "Downtown", only harder.

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I really like Map29.

 

Glad to see you beat Map26. I've been following this thread hoping you'd get it. Scythe is an all time classic, so I'm glad you could enjoy it. Map26 is one of my favorites, but overall the middle bit of Scyrhe is my favorite.

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I'll throw in another +1 for MAP26 of Scythe.  Yes it's an insane slaughtermap, but it's also a pretty tight little one with lots of space if you can take the initiative quickly, and, as others have said, once you figure out how to make the monsters whale on each other and keep moving, always moving, you can punch through the hordes pretty quickly.  I also appreciate that it's really one of only a couple slaughtermaps in the entire set; that's actually my least favorite thing about the otherwise breathtaking Scythe II, is that MAP01-22 are all like "ahhh this is a good challenge" and then the last seven are just one long series of slaughters and fustigating with very little mercy or respite (although Scythe II MAP27 is readily in my top 5 of favorite and most personally influential Doom maps ever, it is an absolute masterpiece).

 

MAP28 is...well I respect the idea, and it is terrifying when you first play it, but the terror and challenge both wear thin and it just becomes a chore pretty quickly, as you have no doubt already discovered for yourself.  MAP29 is great, as is most of Scythe; I'll be basic though and say MAP19 is my favorite Scythe map.

 

Oh yeah and MAP30 of Scythe is pure evil, I made it through the first 29 maps with a minimum of savescumming but good luck with the last one

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If anything, I think Scythe is a bit too generous with the soul spheres most of the time.

 

I would also not call MAP26 "insane": even when I was struggling against it because I was not taking advantage of monster infighting, it did not strike me as impossibly hard as, say, Dark Tartarus. Honestly, I was half-expecting it to be the penultimate map of the mapset.

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17 hours ago, Rudolph said:

Well, that is the thing: until MAP26, I was generally enjoying the mapset.

 

I don't think this is a great way to think about it. I am pretty sure most of us like different parts of different wads and don't always play through them 100%.

(as if my attention span would let me finish a whole mapset before getting distracted anyway lol)

I honestly just like playing the earlier Scythe maps, and Run From It (yes i am one of those people), though I do hope to beat the hard maps on UV someday.

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20 hours ago, Rudolph said:

the map seems to expect of me to spam BFG balls at wave after wave of Revenants, Cacodemons, Hell Knights/Barons of Hell and Mancubi, all the while having to dodge Cyberdemon rockets and watching Arch-Viles undo all your hard work while hiding behind another wave of Revenants, Cacodemons, Hell Knights/Barons of Hell, Mancubi and Cyberdemons.

Like most slaughtermaps

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