Star Trek discussions

[Liberation]

Caught up with Picard S2, this is getting interesting I have to say.

[Rudolph]

This is an amazing pastiche of Star Trek: The Animated Series!

 

 

[Liberation]

I watched that earlier as it happens, pretty well done.

[Rudolph]

For all its flaws, Star Trek: The Animated Series was pretty enjoyable and the closest thing to a proper fourth season to The Original Series.

 

I would definitely watch an official continuation of The Next Generation done in that style. I reckon it cannot be that expensive to produce.

[Sotenga]

Oh hey, a Trek thread. While the world was falling to shit in 2020, I buckled down and viewed all of the Trek that Netflix had to offer back then. That's TOS, TNG, DS9, Voyager, and... Enterprise. I also managed to catch TAS elsewhere, and I agree with Rudolph, it's like season four of TOS and it is genuinely better than season three of TOS was. Season 3 was more like a POS, haha. But the first season is still some of the greatest television ever. Season 2 had less great episodes, but it's still a worthwhile watch.

 

TNG is my favorite ST series. Boring answer, I'm sure, but it did a lot of great things like give depth to the Klingons and introduce the Borg. It wasn't perfect (Geordi frequently got the short end of the stick and Troi didn't become a good character until the last two seasons), but it had a lot more hits and misses, and the series finale is still the best final episode a Trek series has ever had.

 

DS9 is also amazing, though its more serialized nature can work against it at times, and most of the episodes in the first three seasons tend to run together in my mind. But seasons 4 and 5 could argued to be the absolute height of entertainment Trek has ever given. A shame those last two seasons turned out more mixed, but when DS9 was on point, it was on fire.

 

I set my expectations low for Voyager but was pleasantly surprised when I got around to it. Yes, it did settle into being a rehash of TNG, and yes, they kind of squandered the tension between Starfleet and the Maquis, but it still had a lot of good episodes and was an interesting overall journey. And no one's going to argue the EMH is one of the best characters ever.

 

Enterprise... *sigh* I prefer not to talk about Enterprise unless anyone wants me to. =p

[Rudolph]

I hear Strange New Worlds is a return to the traditional episodic format. Which is good news in my book, as I never cared much for serialized storytelling in Star Trek and it looks like most new shows have been generally terrible at it.

[Apprentice]

14 hours ago, Sotenga said:

Enterprise... *sigh* I prefer not to talk about Enterprise unless anyone wants me to. =p

I *want* you to :P

[RHhe82]

By the way, anybody watched Picard S2 till the end?

 

Because they did it again. Again. The season starts off well enough, even promising, and then crashes and burns before long. This time we got a million plot threads that ended up either forgotten or making more or less zero sense, it was a very messy affair. And to top it all, once again they apparently got permanently rid of my favourite character. Like Lorca was wasted in DSC S1, now Rios got the boot. I’m only happy that he got together with the incredibly cute doctor, but that’s only a very small consolation.

 

Next season promises more fan service I have very little faith in.

Edited May 12, 2022 by RHhe82 : typo

[Rudolph]

They made another pastiche of Star Trek: The Animated Series, this time with Voyager!

 

 

[Somniac]

Currently watching DS9 "The Wire" - a really underrated one IMO. Andy Robinson gives a stellar performance in this moving story about addiction, possibly the best Garak moment and there are so many of those. Plus the Garak and Bashir dynamic is highly memorably anyway.

 

I think anyone who's felt like they were a prisoner to their vice(s) will feel this episode. It hits very hard at times, and I feel like we just don't get this kindof genuine, emotionally heavy character drama from Star Trek these days. Then again, DS9 is one big, emotionally heavy character drama in a Trek outfit.

[Apprentice]

On 5/9/2022 at 11:44 PM, Rudolph said:

I hear Strange New Worlds is a return to the traditional episodic format. Which is good news in my book, as I never cared much for serialized storytelling in Star Trek and it looks like most new shows have been generally terrible at it.

Well I've seen some episodes (running a bit late due to other "commitments" that sometimes involves lightsabers and the force :D) and I have to say: I like it. Definitely better then Discovery. If they keep this up, Star Trek might become salvageable.

 

As for Picard: I'm midway through season 2 and it's OK-ish. It's definitely better then what they can produce with Discovery (especially the 4th season) but it certainly won't reach the level they attained during TNG. Maybe season 3 will give us something of that old TNG vibe back . . .

[Rudolph]

6 minutes ago, Apprentice said:

As for Picard: I'm midway through season 2 and it's OK-ish. It's definitely better then what they can produce with Discovery (especially the 4th season) but it certainly won't reach the level they attained during TNG. Maybe season 3 will give us something of that old TNG vibe back . . .

That reminds me of this video:

 

 

Star Trek: Picard is what you get when you do not know when to quit.

[Liberation]

I finished Picard season 2 off the other day, it's ok. Found myself a bit bored midway but the last 2 episodes picks up pretty well, although the last 10 minutes could really have done with a whole episode. I like the Q story tbh, was cool and kinda nice in a strange way.

 

Be interested to see how season 3 pans out.

 

Started watching Enterprise again, so enjoying that atm. Got access to Paramount+ recently so interested in watching Stranger New Worlds. might check out disco S4 as well.

[Kor]

On 12/6/2021 at 3:34 AM, RHhe82 said:

I really started watching Star Trek some 10 years ago, when I got hold of TNG DVD's. As a kid, I loved TNG and considered VOY and TNG the best of the series, and DS9 was the "boring trek" I don't think anyone really watched.

 

But, somewhere near when I hit the age of 30, I watched all the TNG-era treks and ENT. Now I still love TNG, but I like DS9 a bit more. Or actually, considerably more, it's easily my favourite of the series. Sure, it stands on the foundation laid by TNG, but it really takes full advantage of the part of the universe it inhabits. We see actual character development, and character-driven stories. Most of all, it explores morally gray areas, the heroes and villains aren't a black-and-white affair. All this without resorting to gloominess and sentimentality of the newest treks. Section 31 and the magnificent portrayal of Luther Sloan by the great William Sadler comes closest, and even that organization is presented without painting it all black and evil. Something Discovery failed to do in its second season.

 

In other Treks, we are usually rooting for the some core group of main cast, but DS9 utilizes its main cast effectively, even Jake Sisko feels like an actual human being unlike young mister Crusher in TNG. But that's not all, there's also a big group of recurring characters that are explored in greater depth than many of the main cast of other series. Just try to compare VOY's Harry Kim or Chakotay to Dukat, Weyoun, Winn Adami, Garak, Nog.

 

If as a kid I liked Voyager, then as an adult it was such a letdown. Mind you, it's not a bad show as such, but I watched it right after finishing DS9, expecting it was more of the same quality, but in truth it was just another TNG with bigger budget but lazier writing, and while it had a great premise, it let go of any adherence to it and settled for silly anomaly-of-the-week kind of storytelling. Of course, there were great episodes, too, and when it was good, it really was good... but far, far more inconsistent than DS9.

Yeah DS9 is my favorite of all Trek.  It's good in many ways; its character development, how it depicts the Federation as being more flawed (and therefore more real), the overall story arc, it's gray characters (like Garak).  It has multiple story lines (the Klingon war, the conflict with the Dominion, the Maquis) going on yet it's coherent. 

 

Having said all that, its first season, which I'm watching through now, could be better.  I believe most of its episodes are rated at less than 7 stars on IMDB.  

 

Voyager has a lot of silly episodes, but I still like it.  Though it and TNG don't have as much character development as DS9 (save Seven of Nine and the Doctor).  

[Somniac]

DS9 really starts getting good in season 3. Still, a lot of my favourite episodes are from the first two seasons. They're a bit slower paced at times but still really memorable. The Circle episodes or The Maquis two-parter for example. 

[lazygecko]

I finally watched the first 1979 Star Trek movie last week. I'm not usually one to complain about slow paced movies (I could sit through films like 2001 or The Irishman just fine), but this one was really unbearably slow. Several establishing shots that feel like they go on for literal minutes.

[Rudolph]

I hear the director's cut is better paced. I have not seen it, though.

[brick]

I must be the only person on the planet who loves ST:TMP so much, I didn't even feel its 2-hour length the first time (if anything I felt the movie could've used with a bit more runtime...) and I've rewatched it a couple of times since with at least equal enjoyment. It helps that I find the movie beautiful to look at, especially the much-maligned long shots around and inside V'ger (well, it is Trumbull). I've not watched the DC in its entirety in a single sitting, I like a couple of the scenes it restores, but I wasn't too impressed the way it tries to "improve" the pacing of the long special effects shots, since it just breaks them by cutting back and forth to the shocked and surprised faces of various crew members and it... frankly looks a bit stupid. The CG that replaces many of the matte paintings is also very late-90s/early-2000 and has aged as gracefully as vinegar. I also don't find the DC edits do much to change or improve the "ideas" aspects of the movie, which I already really like in the standard cut. Overall I much prefer the theatrical cut and don't really agree with the most common criticisms about the slow pacing or sterility of characters.

[lazygecko]

The parodies got me to check out Star Trek TAS and it might possibly be the best ever cartoon adaptation of a live action property. The only thing really holding it back is the ultra cheap Filmation production values, although it arguably adds a kind of minimalist appeal that suits the TOS aesthetic. Even though it was a show for children, the plot, writing and performances avoid basically all the common cartoon isms of the time, respects the viewer's intelligence and really feels like a seamless continuation of TOS.

 

Several of the episodes were apparently written by or adapted from sci-fi short story authors.

[CBM]

just started to watch picard

 

so far I don't like what the federation has become

 

its like a mirror universe

 

his name isn't "JL" .... it's JEAN-LUC

 

and he wasn't recognized at starfleet HQ..... one if not their greatest hero... a hero who's actions are required learning for all new cadets...

 

he ... wasn't ... recognized ...

 

THAT is BS!

 

I guess I should go watch star trek the motion picture after I've seen both season of Picard

Edited July 14, 2022 by CBM

[Rudolph]

@lazygecko Right on! Also special mention to the score, which is particularly memorable. "Entreprise Attacked" gives me the chills whenever I hear it!

 

However, the reason I referred to them as pastiches rather than parodies is because they are loving tributes to The Animated Series.

Edited July 14, 2022 by Rudolph

[lazygecko]

Just watched the 2009 Star Trek movie and wow, this was a real piece of garbage. I'm never really one to complain about "unlikeable" characters in stories, but this depiction of Kirk was such an insufferable brat I could not stand him. The whole film is just tonally way off from anything I want out of this property. No cerebral sci-fi with a focus on science and ethical/moral conflicts. Just a sequence overdone vapid CG action setpieces that I have long since grown completely numb to. Give me the suspense of classic Trek ship combat any day. I actually dozed off during the final act cause I just did not care any more.

I remember reading years ago about some controversial news surroundings its sequel Into Darkness where they had a completely unneccessary shot of one of the female characters undressing. It came to light that this was only filmed to have as a "trailer moment". I guess that should have been a real red flag for just how juvenile the JJ Abrams films are. First one already seemed obsessed enough with showing off the female cast in lingerine. I'm not even gonna bother watching the sequel.

 

I'm really very late to the Star Trek party. Only started watching TOS around 2018. Barely seen anything of TNG (which people in my age bracket seem the most familiar and emotionally attached to), Voyager, etc. Watched Discovery through the second season but lost interest. Strange New Worlds was fairly good. TOS still remains the gold standard for me.

[CBM]

oh man... wont give spoilers but first season of picard is extremely bad...

second season started out promising and then quickly went straight to hell....

pure garbage... Im surprised all the TNG actors would want to take part in it

[Graf Zahl]

Picard sucks, so does Discovery. The 2000's movies are fortunately in a parallel universe nobody needs to care about. They also missed the mark by a wide margin.

If I ever were to develop a new Star Trek series, I'd expliciltly start it with a time travel adventure where all of Picard gets undone, just to show how much beneath contempt I consider that series.

 

I recently watched the Star Trek Lower Decks cartoon, and while its comedy style may not be everyone's taste, the overall tone of it is a lot closer to 'real' Star Trek than those other abominations.

 

I still found The Orville more enjoyable than all of modern Trek, though.

 

[Rudolph]

2 hours ago, Graf Zahl said:

If I ever were to develop a new Star Trek series, I'd expliciltly start it with a time travel adventure where all of Picard gets undone, just to show how much beneath contempt I consider that series.

Or you could just ignore it all together, as by wasting money, time and resources to "undo" the whole thing rather than to tell a better story, you are ultimately giving it more importance than it really deserves. I mean, it would be like trying to explain why Robert April is played by a black man in Strange New Worlds or why the Klingons have been looking so different ever since The Motion Picture. ;)

[Liberation]

Watching Enterprise again atm, halfway through season 4. I do really like this trek, it does have a few boring episodes but generally it is pretty good fun.

 

Got the rebooted Battlestar Galactica to watch next, looking forward to that. Also hoping to check out Stranger new worlds soon as well, can't be bothered with disco season 4 tho.

[CBM]

5 hours ago, Graf Zahl said:

Picard sucks, so does Discovery. The 2000's movies are fortunately in a parallel universe nobody needs to care about. They also missed the mark by a wide margin.

If I ever were to develop a new Star Trek series, I'd expliciltly start it with a time travel adventure where all of Picard gets undone, just to show how much beneath contempt I consider that series.

 

I recently watched the Star Trek Lower Decks cartoon, and while its comedy style may not be everyone's taste, the overall tone of it is a lot closer to 'real' Star Trek than those other abominations.

 

I still found The Orville more enjoyable than all of modern Trek, though.

 

I totally agree.

 

Still Lower Decks, while being closer to 'real' Star Trek, it is still not quite there.

The whole "captains daughter can do anything she wants" is one example.

 

However, its close enough to be watchable I guess... since it somehow makes it easier (atleast for me) that it is a cartoon.

 

Also USS Equinox was quite messed up, so not all ships are as tightly run as the USS Enterprise so that goes a long way to make Lower Decks closer to 'real' Star Trek I guess.

 

Enterprise is more 'real' Star Trek than Lower Decks but it is still a bit off somehow. I do like Enterprise however.

 

The true Trek for me will always be TOS, TNG, DS9 and VOY though.

 

I really really like The Orville but I think the Kaylons look could have been a bit less cheap homemade kids halloween robot custome. 

 

 

[Rudolph]

1 hour ago, CBM said:

I think the Kaylons look could have been a bit less cheap homemade kids halloween robot custome.

Then again, nothing says "Classic Star Trek" like cheap-looking Halloween costumes.

 

I mean, Data was just Brent Spiner wearing yellow contact lens with his face painted white.

[Daytime Waitress]

7 hours ago, Rudolph said:

Or you could just ignore it all together, as by wasting money, time and resources to "undo" the whole thing rather than to tell a better story, you are ultimately giving it more importance than it really deserves.

 

That is a very good point. But I also kinda like the idea of Graf Trek's pilot episode having a race of gold-painted men whom even the Federation determine have to be wiped out for the good of the universe.

[Rudolph]

23 hours ago, Daytime Waitress said:

But I also kinda like the idea of Graf Trek's pilot episode having a race of gold-painted men whom even the Federation determine have to be wiped out for the good of the universe.

Is that a Star Trek: Picard's reference? I have not actually watched that show.