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Lobo

Suggestions Please!

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I'm starting to get bitten by the programming bug again, and have decided to begin the next version of the Edge Shell/Launcher. I've been learning a lot in the my new job and want to apply the stuff I've picked up to ESL.

While I'm at it I would like to add more functionality to the application, so if anyone has any ideas they would like to see implemented in ESL V2.0, then let me know.

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Well for starters, there's one thing you can take out.

Please DO NOT make it load on startup. After I had to take it off (HDD space needed) it was a bitch to keep the windows welcome screen from coming up, TWICE AT THE SAME TIME. (this is because it was trying to load up ESL + it's text file, which it couldn't find) No disrespect, but that can get VERY annoying.

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WTF??!! ESL is NOT supposed to load itself every time windows starts!!

I heard this from one other person also, but nobody else has reported it so I assumed it was just a quirk of that guys system setup. VERY weird, I'll look into that. Has anyone else had this problem?

As a temporary solution just delete the link from your Startup folder.




BTW you must have been REALLY desperate for HD space if you needed those <300 Kb that ESL occupies ;)

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Make support for 1.24 and 1.27 exes (in seperate dirs) for people like me that still enjoy to play old 1.24 mods. Thank j00.

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Have you really tried ESL?

I'm just asking because I thought that the .elc config files already served that purpose. You can have different config files for different projects(e.g. you can create an edge124.elc which has all the info for your old Edge wads) and besides, ESL doesn't care if you have more than one copy of Edge in different directories.

Could you be more specific?





BTW I've just downloaded ESL from my site and have discovered that the Installer does in fact create a shortcut in the Startup folder: sorry about that!! I guess that I must have uploaded the wrong one the last time I moved the files around on my host :)

This will definitely be fixed in the next version!

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Do you think you'll be able to fix that one error I keep getting? (Everytime I open up the program, a small box opens up that just says "Starting Error".)

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I remember we tried to sort this out by email but I can't remember the details.

After this window pops up, what happens?

I mean does ESL actually start, or does it just show that message and then exit?

What version of windows are you using?

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I'm using Windows 98. Ok, here's what happened: I open up ESL, then the error message pops up, then I click ok. It disapears and nothing else happens.

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We'll just have to keep our fingers crossed that the next version doesn't give you any problems ;)

BTW Did you install some other program after you installed the runtimes, but before you tried ESL again?

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Hey Lobo, what about DFL support ?

..and Doom-Child, are you not satisfied with VB?
Then show us what you have coded in a "real" programming
language. Sorry guy, but I found your reply just stupid.

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DFL? If you tell me what/who/where it is then I'll have a look into the matter. Isn't that something to do with KDX or something?




BTW, I don't know what problem people have with Visual Basic: maybe they prefer to code 50 lines to do things that VB does with 1(sadomasochists), or maybe they simply jump on the VB-bashing band wagon without having a clue what they're talking about(follow-the-leader).

They are things that C/C++ is suited to, and there are things where VB is more appropriate. All the programmers I know usually prefer VB over C++(when it's feasible), especially if you're talking about GUIs.

Anyhow, if Doomchild hates VB so much, I invite him to code his own launcher (in the language of his choice) so we can all see why VB is so bad
:)

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yeah, DFL is used within the KDX launcher, but it is an open format.
Actually it makes Doom files handling very very convenient!
Plese look at the http://doomdb.knows.it ...there are tons of DFL files.


Hehe, Doom Child should code his own launcher in the language of his choice. I bet he will not come far. I guess he is one of these guys just open up their mouth on every opportunity.

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doomDB Admin said:

yeah, DFL is used within the KDX launcher, but it is an open format.
Actually it makes Doom files handling very very convenient!
Plese look at the http://doomdb.knows.it ...there are tons of DFL files.

Use XML!!

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I don't know what problem people have with Visual Basic... etc

The thing is, VB has a lot behind-the-scene stuff you can hardly control. This does makes coding a lot simpler, but sometimes (sometimes) also slower. Most hardcore VB coders have workarounds for this (often API calls like CopyMemory).

Its definitely usefull for the so called "desktop applications". Application with a lot of window's interface (GUI, MFC). The way I use it is VB as main language and interface, and a C/C++ DLL with API calls for the fast and optimized routines when VB cant do it. That way you have the full power of both worlds.

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I agree, that's EXACTLY my point: there are certain types of processes that are more suited to C++(usually performance/speed related).

These days the speed factor isn't as much of an issue as it used to be what with all these P3/4s floating around with rakeloads of Ghz, although this also depends on what you are doing: obviously nobody's going to code a Source Port in VB!

Regarding XML: I HATE XML!!! I've been fessing around with it recently and I'm sick of it. Actually, now that I think about it, I don't actually hate XML so much as XSL!! That's a REAL pain in the... ;)

As for the DFL format: WHAT??!!! ARE YOU KIDDING??! KDX is the ENEMY!!! I can't include that in ESL!!! that would be like Bill Gates letting Windows Explorer access Linux partitions!!
Hehe, just joking King Elvis!!:)
I'll have a look and see what I can do. BTW, what exactly do you mean by "support"? I could add an option to ESL that would export a DFL file, but it won't be possible to import a DFL file.
This is due to the way both programs work: KDX expects to have everything in directories under where it's installed(I think)and uses relative paths, while ESL expects stuff to be all over the place and uses fixed paths.

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Skins are completely pointless IMO. They not only kill a lot of performance (drawing a bitmap is always way slower than a rectangle, no matter what language) but why do you need them? To make it look childish? C'mon, get a grip! The windows interface may not be beatifull, buts it the most user-firendly, fast and everyone knows how to use it. Why else do you think the whole world uses windows on workstations?

I can't include that in ESL!!!

Why not, whats the problem and why is it evil?!

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Gherkin said:

Why else do you think the whole world uses windows on workstations?

Because it's a monopoly?

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Gherkin said:

Why not, whats the problem and why is it evil?!


I was just joking: competition between the Front ends (KDX vs ESL) ;)


Skins: I'm afraid I have to agree with Gherkin on the topic of skins: it's not worth the trouble of implementing IMHO and would only make the application swell in size.

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Oh no, KDX doesn't support only relative paths. I can if you like. It
also supports stuff all over the place and even in the network.

DFL files just working this way: you have an archive with Doom files,
let's say a bunch of WADs, DEHs and TXTs. You would also like to set
the warp level. What do you have to do? Just put the DFL file into the
unzipped archive folder, select only the DFL file within KDX or through
its "Send To" probe for DFL file. You can also double click the DFL
file if you have associated them with the DFL probe. Then you are
done! Just one click and you a ready to play. That is really straight forward. I love this DFL thing :) IMO it has never been that easy to process a bunch of Doom files that easy.

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My major problem with VB is the extreme inefficiency involved. Yes, you can code a GUI with one or two lines of code. Yes, it is easy to learn. No, it is not a good language for most anything. At best, I would want to write a GUI frontend for a C++ or Java core program. GUI programming for Windows in C++ isn't really that difficult. Essentially, you're forced to code the things that VB assumes for you. The downside is that you have to code things that may seem obvious. The upside is that you can change them...

I'm not saying that ESL doesn't work well. I don't use it myself, but that's just me. I'm just saying that if it were my project, I'd want a language that works.

Also: anyone who thinks that efficiency is not a concern just because we have such huge processors on the market should be drug into the street and shot.

DC

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Doom-Child said:

Also: anyone who thinks that efficiency is not a concern just because we have such huge processors on the market should be drug(lobo: shouldn't that be "dragged") into the street and shot.


Are you listening Bill Gates? They're going to take you out into the street and ...

:)

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Lobo said:

Are you listening Bill Gates? They're going to take you out into the street and ...

:)


Man, if they were going to get me, they'd have gotten me already. Who knows?

You have to give Microsoft credit: they've made an amazing leap moving from the Win16 to the Win32 kernel. Personally, I tend to think they should've sent 16-bit compatibility packing long ago, but I'm kind of a bastard that way.

Gherkin? Care to elucidate your previous comment?

DC

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