The /newstuff Chronicles #112

[Cyb]

mewse said:

you're just standing up for him because he gave you a good review

Damnit, don't start with me jerk store! I know where you live!!

[The Ultimate DooMer]

<rant>
No megawad deserves a slating like that, especially when one person has worked hard for a year or more to make all 32 maps (I bet it wouldn't have been slated if a team had made it). Just because it's doom2.exe compatible with new sprites doesn't mean it should be slated unfairly. (there was a recent flamewar about doom2/doom95 compatible wads and besides, most of us will just plug in our favourite source port and play away)
</rant>

/me goes off to enjoy playing TVR...

[UAC PR Dept]

That reminds me, I have a problem with people who think that the world owes them because they released something big out of the goodness of their heart.

I've been banned from two forums now because I was the only one who thought the newly released Half-Life mod in question sucked. When I state my opinion, and tell them why, everyone gets mad and defensive and personal and always says stuff like "well they are releasing this for free, not for profit, we spent hours bringing this to you, show some respect blah blah blah" well that's just great, but it still sucks. As a member of the public, I am telling them what I think... and I get banned for it.

Sometimes it's hard for people to contemplate someone NOT liking what they have made, especially when all the compliments have gotten to their head and popped their seals... ::cough cough::

[Vile]

UAC PR Dept said:

That reminds me, I have a problem with people who think that the world owes them because they released something big out of the goodness of their heart.

Sometimes it's hard for people to contemplate someone NOT liking what they have made, especially when all the compliments have gotten to their head and popped their seals... ::cough cough::

And... how could this scenario remind you of that? The wad was reviewed without being played first, not bashed for its actual design. I don't see what relevance that has to your particular rant because the author of the wad hasn't done any complaining of any kind.

[m0l0t0v]

Cyb:
Not saying a wad can be used with a source port as an alternative to Deusf in the text file is inexcusable in this day and age. I agree with Ling.

THIS is inexcusable:

Linguica:
...it shows that the author's decaying brain is packed full of maggot-infested horse shit and his mother sucks cocks in hell.

If Thomas was a member here, that comment could have had serious consequences; but hey, he`s not here so we can say WTF we want about him, right?!?

Cyb:
Had I stumbled across this while browsing /idgames I would have taken one look at the text file and skipped right over it.

Woooooh, you have run DeuSF! That requires ONE FULL mouse click and like 2 or even 3 full seconds of your time! How dare he ask this from us!



OK... lets end the madness now and go back to our lifes (of which some have been enriched with a great wad)...

[Virgil]

Linguica said:

Assuming you're using MSIE, use the old shift-click.

/Virgil was about to ask the same inuntelligent question.

I hate your common sense Ling. :)

[Cyb]

UAC PR Dept said:

I've been banned from two forums now because blah blah blah boo hoo

Yeah right. I'm sure you weren't banned because you're a troll or anything Wavelength.

[Grazza]

m0l0t0v said:

OK... lets end the madness now and go back to our lifes (of which some have been enriched with a great wad)...

You're right, this is too silly even to deserve a flamewar. Anyone reading this thread will surely have realized that it is a great wad and will have already downloaded it or will be awaiting a review next week or the week after.

Those who are impatient to see a review can find a short one here or a more detailed one here (albeit with an incorrect download link).

[Use]

UAC PR Dept said:

I've been banned from two forums now because...

You're a stupid mong and no one gives two shits about what you think? Yeah that sounds about right.

[Erik]

without looking at the comments I bet that a lot of people have flamed you to hell for your REVOLUTION! review. I'll just join in:

You are a complete moron.

[myk]

Cyb said:

Not saying a wad can be used with a source port as an alternative to Deusf in the text file is inexcusable in this day and age. I agree with Ling. Had I stumbled across this while browsing /idgames I would have taken one look at the text file and skipped right over it.

OK, so you would have made the same mistake and so you "understand" him. But you won't do so now if you ever find yourself in such a situation, as you now clearly understand exactly what DEUSF does from my post above.

As an aside, ports are open source, user made, optional applications found in websites and whatnot, and not part of the game per se. No one is obliged to release a DOOM add-on taking them into accout and there is nothing wrong with someone working only with doom2 and preparing a WAD for it. In addition, most modern ports have taken into account doom2 quirks, features and tricks, so there is little to worry about usually, in most cases ports just make it easier for the user: In this case, by not having to use DEUSF. This ability to run WADs without merging with DEUSF is probably listed in most port docs, and if it isn't, you can blame the engine's coder. The simple fact that there's many old WADs that "require" DEUSF out there makes it relevant information port users should know about.

[Kinsie]

Wow, This editon of newstuff's going to hell in a handbasket.

[The Ultimate DooMer]

Trasher][ said:
Wow, This editon of newstuff's going to hell in a handbasket.

You've probably not seen newstuff #107 then....

[Grazza]

I thought #106 was more of a shitstorm, but you're probably right about #107 if you just meant the average number of expletives and insults per post.

[fraggle]

m0l0t0v said:

Woooooh, you have run DeuSF! That requires ONE FULL mouse click and like 2 or even 3 full seconds of your time! How dare he ask this from us!

Its horrible and ugly.

Any addon that requires you to modify your IWAD in this day and age is broken.

[Grazza]

fraggle said:

Any addon that requires you to modify your IWAD ...

It doesn't though. It's "DeuSF -app TVR!.wad".

[myk]

fraggle said:

Any addon that requires you to modify your IWAD in this day and age is broken.

Yeah, I agree, such add-ons do suck... but what add-on are you referring to? I'm assuming you know DEUSF's features and how it's being used with Tvr! here...

Grazza, heh, you beat me to it.

[DooMBoy]

Trasher][ said:
Wow, This editon of newstuff's going to hell in a handbasket.

I hope that's not in a literal sense...

[The Ultimate DooMer]

fraggle said:

Any addon that requires you to modify your IWAD in this day and age is broken.

Err....what about using a source port?

(I've just played it through with ZDoom and it worked fine, without using DeuSF)

[Erik]

They're just trying to cover ling's ass. Everyone should know by now that wads that require deusf with the original game can be used without modification with a sourceport.

To ling: You should check the wad and update the review imo, it's retarded to put down an excellent wad like that without even playing it.

[Linguica]

Oh please. I open the WAD file and immediately see

=                  To install REVOLUTION! type:                     =
=                                                                   =
=                      "DeuSF -app TVR!.wad" 			    =	
=			      in DOS                                =
=                             					    =
=			      or run 				    =	
=			"install_tvr!.bat" 			    =
=		          under Windows 			    =

And like 75% of the rest of the text file is talking about DeuSF and how to use DeuSF and how DeuSF is included and blah blah blah. And I see this:

If you were to play TVR!.wad right after unzipping
you`d run into TROUBLE. DOOM2 will get stuck or what ever. This is
caused by the fact that the wad-file is not complete! It needs extra
information from the original DOOM2.wad. 

Nowhere in the text file does it mention anything about source ports, or that it's just appending all the IWAD info into the PWAD. I think that for something released in 2001, some sort of notice about source ports is justified -- not to mention that the text file doesn't even talk about the megawad, and just goes on about how to "install" it. I think my skepticism is well justified.

I am sure one of the "real" /newstuff reviewers will review the WAD next week or sometime, indignantly decrying my non-review, so I'm in no hurry to speed through it and update mine.

[Fredrik]

When I download a Doom game level, I want to be able to click the file picture, move it across the computer interweb tv radio viewer and drop it on the "Doom" picture thing.

I don't understand the concept of BAFF files or FEUSD or whenever.

[kristus]

I thought it was common knowledge that source ports could run old Doom wads w/o appending missing flats and sprites to them..

[DEMOn]

Linguica's post shows just how far DOOM ports and editing have come.
I understand where he's coming from 100%; not just the expectation of using a source port, but perceiving that using a source port is the default.
DOOM will always be a DOS game folks, there is no reason the author needs to comment on how to run their wad with a modified executable.. unless that wad is made to be played with a port.
and not needing to patch the pwad with deusf to run with a source port doesn't exactly come up every day for most of us... there is no reason Ling or anyone had to know that... only wad authors do.

[Cyb]

DEMOn said:

DOOM will always be a DOS game folks, there is no reason the author needs to comment on how to run their wad with a modified executable.. unless that wad is made to be played with a port.

I run win2k and if I try and play doom2.exe it runs slowly and without any sound.

It's not 1995.

[myk]

DEMOn said:

and not needing to patch the pwad with deusf to run with a source port doesn't exactly come up every day for most of us... there is no reason Ling or anyone had to know that... only wad authors do.

No, of course Linguica wouldn't know such a thing... only...

Hey don't go around insulting the knowledge and intelligence of our ex-webmaster, he's been into doomstuff for years, and though he hasn't made a WAD in a long time he's been messing with DOOM apps and WADs of all sorts for a long-ass time.

Cyb, um, so what if it's not '95. And if you don't like doom2, use a port, it'd be even easier since you wouldn't have to run DEUSF. But the author made it for doom2, and is not interested in ports, apparently. So? And anyway according to DEMOn here, you'd certainly know about not needing DEUSF, since we all know you make WADs. Nyah.

It's intriguing how you guys got so defensive... It would have been so easy to just fix the mistake.

[myk]

Now to something more relevant, the demo pack for Tvr! is ready:

http://lmp.netfirms.com/tvr/

You can find more Tvr! demos here:

http://www.doomworld.com/sda/tvr.htm

Oh, and Opulent, I hope you update soon...

[DEMOn]

myk said:

No, of course Linguica wouldn't know such a thing... only...

Hey don't go around insulting the knowledge and intelligence of our ex-webmaster, he's been into doomstuff for years, and though he hasn't made a WAD in a long time he's been messing with DOOM apps and WADs of all sorts for a long-ass time.

Cyb, um, so what if it's not '95. And if you don't like doom2, use a port, it'd be even easier since you wouldn't have to run DEUSF. But the author made it for doom2, and is not interested in ports, apparently. So? And anyway according to DEMOn here, you'd certainly know about not needing DEUSF, since we all know you make WADs. Nyah.

It's intriguing how you guys got so defensive... It would have been so easy to just fix the mistake.

I wasn't insulting Ling, I was defending him.
no reason he had to know that... only wad authors know that stuff... the rest of us just use -file 1337.wad or whatever...

[DEMOn]

Cyb said:

I run win2k and if I try and play doom2.exe it runs slowly and without any sound.

It's not 1995.

That's like saying your 1949 Ford doesn't like Unleaded gas. well, duh.
and as far as doom2.exe is concerned it is ALWAYS 1994... it will never know differently.
TVR was made for the 1994 DOS DOOM2 not win2k 32-bit windowsAPI Zdoom-cab36.

[myk]

Opulent, if only authors know that, then everyone else who runs a "DEUSF" WAD with a port would uselessly run DEUSF on it in ignorance? Also, what's the point in defending both our positions at the same time? Now you argue with both sides. I guess you want to steal our spectacle! I never cared if, or it never mattered to me whether, Linguica knew or not how DEUSF works, and how ports handle it. I simply corrected Linguica when he dismissed the WAD as not suitable, and explained how it would run perfectly without DEUSF on a port. After that, the arguement continued simply be cause they (this is probably Cyb's fault, he should just listen to mewse more often) insisted on being right instead of just saying "hmm, hadn't thought of that, maybe next time..." or even being more generous by reviewing the WAD or simply encouraging other people to state their opinions on it.