Going Through The Serious Sam Games Again

[Rudolph]

Damn, I am replaying the first level of Serious Sam on Hard and it is surprisingly difficult to get a 100% Kills. Like, a lot of time, if I do not walk over an item or do not go through a specific path, enemies will simply not spawn at all. It feels so wrong to have to be actively looking for monsters in a game about shooting monsters. :(

 

The best I have managed to get is 62 out 63, and I suspect the last enemy spawn is linked to the Large Health item in the pool in the penultimate room.

 

EDIT: Nevermind, I got it. I guess there was a Beheaded Rocketeer who got spawned after I did... something.

Edited January 26, 2022 by Rudolph

[whybmonotacrab]

I think the first game is a masterpiece that easily shits all over copycats like Painkiller and its ilk (painkiller has good weapons, but that's the only thing it has going for it). I think most people who think it's just about huge amounts of enemies haven't played it in a while, because it doesn't actually throw overwhelming odds your way until the halfway mark, and it's a mix of indoor quake style levels (though not as intricate) and outdoor slaughterfests. Apart from Doom, it has one of the best enemy lineups in fps history imo, and it uses them to good effect. It being delightfully dickish at times is also one of the things I love about it.

 

 Also, the HD versions aren't very good. They make the game easier, scrap some of the cooler secrets because the shitty Serious Sam 3 engine can't handle them, and worst of all they completely fuck with the artstyle. In the early game there are a bunch of tombs and they all have different coloured lighting and fog effects that make them feel distinct and moody, but in the HD version they don't have fog or coloured lighting and all just look the same. 

 

 Anyway the series went seriously downhill after that, with Serious Sam 3 being the worst entry imo. I got the new one today though and it's really good. Like, probably the best the series has been since the originals, since it actually has well thought out fights. Makes sense since it's made by modders and not Croteam.

[Rykzeon]

On 1/11/2022 at 3:44 AM, Rudolph said:

EDIT: Eh. It is kind of dated and widescreen resolutions are not supported. Bummer. :(

 

So someone has made a Serious Sam gameplay mod for Doom I and II. I wonder if it plays well with Doom slaughtermaps.

 

 

The graphics reminds me of Ion Fury

[Rudolph]

3 hours ago, whybmonotacrab said:

Also, the HD versions aren't very good. They make the game easier, scrap some of the cooler secrets because the shitty Serious Sam 3 engine can't handle them, and worst of all they completely fuck with the artstyle. In the early game there are a bunch of tombs and they all have different coloured lighting and fog effects that make them feel distinct and moody, but in the HD version they don't have fog or coloured lighting and all just look the same.

Oh, really? That is a shame, because the HD version still looks incredibly good. But if you are telling me that the original version is ultimately the best experience overall despite the dated graphics, I guess I will have to try it instead.

 

Speaking of Serious Sam Classic, should I bother with Revolution?

Edited January 26, 2022 by Rudolph

[BGreener]

4 hours ago, whybmonotacrab said:

 Also, the HD versions aren't very good. They make the game easier, scrap some of the cooler secrets because the shitty Serious Sam 3 engine can't handle them, and worst of all they completely fuck with the artstyle. In the early game there are a bunch of tombs and they all have different coloured lighting and fog effects that make them feel distinct and moody, but in the HD version they don't have fog or coloured lighting and all just look the same. 

Bummer to hear they made it easier - but that’s all the more reason for me to consider a Serious playthrough of the originals. Is the Fusion port good for that?

 

I haven’t given 4 a go yet, I’m a bit wary on how “mandatory” or how hard to pass up the dual-wield option will be. I am unfortunately picky in that regard.

[Rudolph]

@BGrieber Wait, Fusion? Damn, how many versions of Serious Sam 1 are there?

[BGreener]

Enough to get confused and mix them up, like I just did! Fusion isn’t if you want to play the classics, that seems strictly for the HD versions and a better version of 3. I goofed.

 

Classics Revolution seems to be the one to play the originals through.

[Bauul]

1 hour ago, BGrieber said:

I haven’t given 4 a go yet, I’m a bit wary on how “mandatory” or how hard to pass up the dual-wield option will be. I am unfortunately picky in that regard.

 

For what it's worth, I played through it on co-op with a mate and never used dual-wielding.  I was a little skeptical going in, but ended up enjoying the game a lot more than SS3.

[Rudolph]

So I have given Revolution a shot, more specifically the Karnak Demo. Is it me or the level feels a lot larger than its HD counterpart?

 

In any case, I do appreciate that the port allows me to pick the Xbox HUD over the atrocious classic one. I have never understood why the cartoon style proved to be so unpopular with the players; I think it fits the goofiness of the premise much better than photorealistic graphics, however pretty they are.

[BGreener]

1 hour ago, Bauul said:

 

For what it's worth, I played through it on co-op with a mate and never used dual-wielding.  I was a little skeptical going in, but ended up enjoying the game a lot more than SS3.

That’s comforting. General consensus seems to be its better than 3, and that’s wonderful news. I didn’t like 3 when it was first out, but the few small changes they brought to it in Fusion made me love it.

[Rudolph]

How does Fusion improve Serious Sam 3?

[BGreener]

11 minutes ago, Rudolph said:

How does Fusion improve Serious Sam 3?

There’s a lot!

https://steamcommunity.com/app/564310/discussions/0/1693785035819177806/

 

Of note are better reloading mechanics (like reloading while sprinting), some weapon changes and buffs, and those two enemies that were immune to non-explosives (Khuums and the monstercoptors) are instead 50% resistant to them.

Edited January 26, 2022 by BGrieber : I changed a word because I smart Grieber

[Rudolph]

Interesting. I might check it out once I get to Serious Sam 3!

[Rudolph]

Wow, I have played some more Serious Sam Classic: Revolution and the levels really feel more spacious and as such it seems easier to dodge Kleers. However, for whatever reason, the game keeps pausing whenever I alt-tab and I had to press every key on my keyboard to get it unpaused. Annoying.

 

Anyway, I have been reading about the Serious Sam series as a whole lately and I am surprised that there has yet to be a "Third Encounter". By which I mean a direct sequel to The Second Encounter, as Serious Sam 3 and 4 are prequels and Serious Sam 2 is apparently considered non-canon now, which means that Croteam has to complete their original vision for Serious Sam and most importantly giving us a fight with Mental, the big bad of the entire series; according to the Serious Sam wiki, Mental himself has yet to make an actual appearance! Now, it is not really a problem per se, but it strikes me as rather odd. Like, can you imagine if, say, Dr. Wily was never fought, let alone fought in the entire Mega Man series?

Edited January 27, 2022 by Rudolph

[whybmonotacrab]

29 minutes ago, Rudolph said:

Wow, I have played some more Serious Sam Classic: Revolution and the levels really feel more spacious and as such it seems easier to dodge Kleers. However, for whatever reason, the game keeps pausing whenever I alt-tab and I had to press every key on my keyboard to get it unpaused. Annoying.

 

Anyway, I have been reading about the Serious Sam series as a whole lately and I am surprised that there has yet to be a "Third Encounter". By which I mean a direct sequel to The Second Encounter, as Serious Sam 3 and 4 are prequels and Serious Sam 2 is apparently considered non-canon now, which means that Croteam has to complete their original vision for Serious Sam and most importantly giving us a fight with Mental, the big bad of the entire series; according to the Serious Sam wiki, Mental himself has yet to make an actual appearance! Now, it is not really a problem per se, but it strikes me as rather odd. Like, can you imagine if, say, Dr. Wily was never fought, let alone fought in the entire Mega Man series?

Yeah Revolution is the best option IMO, as it has modern QOL features but doesn't drastically alter anything.

 

 Yeah, I feel like the series has been on a downhill slope for a while now. I didn't hate 4 as much as everyone else - it had its issues but it was much better than 3 - but I miss when these games had style and weren't trying to look ultra realistic on a budget. I think Croteam's wanted to do other things for a while now, but Serious Sam is what pays the bills. 

 

 The new team who worked on Siberian Mayhem seems to get it though. My only issues so far with that game have been that it's on the Serious Sam 4 engine so it has some of the same quirks. The series seems to be sort of getting handed over to them (at least that's what I've heard) and if so I'm excited for what the future brings. 

[Rudolph]

Maybe Croteam should get Timelock or a similar team to make a retro-styled Serious Sam: The Third Encounter! :P

 

Anyway, I have played the first two levels and I am shocked to see how much less annoying the Kleer is to fight there. Also, and I am not sure if it is a change exclusive to Revolution, but the Kleer's chainball attack does not seem to be homing either. Maybe the enemy does behave differently in Serious Sam HD or maybe the classic level design is indeed much more spacious, but it feels much more manageable.

[Jello]

3 hours ago, Rudolph said:

Maybe Croteam should get Timelock or a similar team to make a retro-styled Serious Sam: The Third Encounter! :P

 

Anyway, I have played the first two levels and I am shocked to see how much less annoying the Kleer is to fight there. Also, and I am not sure if it is a change exclusive to Revolution, but the Kleer's chainball attack does not seem to be homing either. Maybe the enemy does behave differently in Serious Sam HD or maybe the classic level design is indeed much more spacious, but it feels much more manageable.

I do want to be clear, or Kleer. The Kleer do not have a homing attack on any difficulty level. It may have looked that way because you had many Kleer attacking you, and you were strafing sideways so it looked like they curved, and maybe the FOV you were using added a sort of fisheye look so that it appeared that they were curving towards you. Or it might be the fact that they can throw snares through each other, so you were looking at the one that thought hit you, but it was the one behind it that had started leading you. And they can stop and throw again pretty quickly as well, so you may have dodged one, but it stopped and threw another one.

 

The only enemies that do have homing attacks are the Aludran Reptiloids. The Rocketeers may appear to be homing on you, but they just fire really slow projectiles that travel along the ground, so you might run into them.

 

But no, the Kleer do not have that ability, but I can see how it seems like it. I've been there, but when they're in a large horde running at you and they start flinging those bolas, they seem to come from everywhere. Which is why I think they're one of the most enjoyable enemies to fight, they keep you on your toes all the time. But having one charging for you, and you dodge to the side and catch it with a double barrel as it sails past is very enjoyable. 

 

Really the only enemy I hate is the Werebull. Because they always put so damn many of them in at the same time. Those are the tanks of the game, and they irritate me. I can't risk using an explosive, because there's probably going to be another two charging, and I'll kill myself with splash damage. But I can't use the minigun or plasma rifle because it kills them too slowly. The hardest fights I've ever had in a Sam game was an arena that gets filled with Werebulls. Imagine if in the next game they make Kleers that can ride Werebulls, so they charge full speed, but they're throwing bolas the whole time. That'd be a hoot!

[Antroid]

I think Fusion screws with physics too much that it makes many enemies weird or annoying to fight in its FE and SE versions, I personally would not recommend Fusion. I'm not sure about 3, since I loved SS3 just as it was originally. Have yet to play through the fusion version.

 

FE and SE are really best experienced in the non-HD versions, though. Revolution has one graphical bug that makes models such as trees disappear much closer to the camera because it has the FOV or the aspect ratio or something (I forget) interfere with the LOD distances, otherwise it should be perfectly fine to play. Personally I didn't really feel a gameplay difference between HD and classics, just HD and Fusion versions of HD, but to me the older graphics actually help to spot the enemies a lot of the times, especially in Second Encounter.

 

5 hours ago, whybmonotacrab said:

I miss when these games had style and weren't trying to look ultra realistic on a budget.

I dunno, I never felt that the older games had any particular "style" to them. To me they look like every old 3d FPS looked back in the day, Unreal, Half-life, Quake 2, even stuff like Deus Ex, they all had cartoony textures on characters and mildly cartoony textures on environments. I love the realistic look of SS3 and 4, but I wouldn't mind a different one if they go for more of a SS2 style (unless they turn the NPCs into the SS2-style tiny bobblehead villagers, yuck).

Edited January 27, 2022 by Antroid

[ducon]

The missiles are not launched in order to aim where you are when they are launched (like in Doom), they are launched to aim where you will be if you keep your speed and direction.

[Jello]

29 minutes ago, ducon said:

The missiles are not launched in order to aim where you are when they are launched (like in Doom), they are launched to aim where you will be if you keep your speed and direction.

I guess I kind of mentioned that in my last post in passing.

 

The enemies are generally good at leading you. Calculated upon where you're currently going, they can fire at where you'll be by the time their shot reaches that location. That's why it's important to constantly be looking around the arena, changing direction, and focusing on the enemies that need dying first. And focusing on those that need dying, but they can wait until primary targets are done.

 

The game forces you to constantly be moving in combat and observing what's going on around you, and noticing what new enemies have gotten spawned in the area. I for one actually love the downtime between fights because it gives me time to look around, explore, find that +health in the corner that makes more enemies spawn, or that little jackass joke. I think it's fun. And others mileage may very, but I think it's a very competently designed shooter.

 

The only thing that I think I would change, is make Sam slightly faster. Not much, and maybe I can do that in Fusion, I should look at that and see how it works. Just a +25 or 35 percent boost to speed. Things can outrun you pretty quickly, but the game is still beatable and plenty of fun without it.

[Antroid]

6 minutes ago, Jello said:

Things can outrun you pretty quickly, but the game is still beatable and plenty of fun without it.

I feel like the three best monsters SS has are the ones that outrun you very decisively: Kamikaze, Kleer and Werebull. I love a lot of the other unique monsters, including some great ones in 3 and especially 4, but these three are a staple from day one.

[Rudolph]

@Jello Well, the Kleer does have a homing attack in Bogus Detour, so that must be the cause of my Mandela Effect there. :P

 

I actually do not mind the Werebull at all: sure, fighting many of them at once can be tricky, but they are goofy and very meaty, they look good and their death animation is quite satisfying. Also, I see that you can ride them in Serious Sam 4! How cool is that? :D

 

Additionally, I have realized that the Witch-Harpy essentially behaves like a flying Kleer, but again, unlike the Kleer, I like fighting them: sure, it can be annoying to have to deal with them when they get in front of the sun, but they usually spawn from afar - thus giving you plenty of time to snipe them; unlike the Kleer, which the game loves to spawn right next to you - and since they are living beings, they die a gory death.

 

Really, the only two enemies I do not care for in Serious Sam are the Kleer and the Marsh Hopper; the latter because it is just a boring, one-trick enemy that dies so quickly, oftentimes in ways that you cannot tell, that they might as well just not be there in the first place.

 

As for the Kleer, I remain convinced that it could have been replaced with either a pack of Gnaars or a type of Gnaar that can pounce at you. Either that, or a baby Werebull that can fit inside corridors and interior rooms.

[NuMetalManiak]

On 1/26/2022 at 7:16 AM, whybmonotacrab said:

Also, the HD versions aren't very good. They make the game easier, scrap some of the cooler secrets because the shitty Serious Sam 3 engine can't handle them, and worst of all they completely fuck with the artstyle. In the early game there are a bunch of tombs and they all have different coloured lighting and fog effects that make them feel distinct and moody, but in the HD version they don't have fog or coloured lighting and all just look the same. 

I've seen some videos of HD First and Second encounter and I agree with this. There's one room, I think it was in the Pit level, that in the classic game was a tube where you can walk on all parts of the cylinder (called Newton's Nightmare or something) and it was pretty innovative, but I saw what it was in the HD version and it doesn't look like they kept the antigravity stuff so they just put some rotating walls that guide you up to the ceiling and drop off there and repeat. The combat I saw in there was much more awkward and it just loses its charm without the antigravity thing. (btw this is an opinion)

1 hour ago, Rudolph said:

Additionally, I have realized that the Witch-Harpy essentially behaves like a flying Kleer, but again, unlike the Kleer, I like fighting them: sure, it can be annoying to have to deal with them when they get in front of the sun, but they usually spawn from afar - thus giving you plenty of time to snipe them; unlike the Kleer, which the game loves to spawn right next to you - and since they are living beings, they die a gory death.

 

Really, the only two enemies I do not care for in Serious Sam are the Kleer and the Marsh Hopper; the latter because it is just a boring, one-trick enemy that dies so quickly, oftentimes in ways that you cannot tell, that they might as well just not be there in the first place.

The Marsh Hopper certainly seemed threatening in a few cases in First Encounter (Oasis, Karnak) due to their numbers and needing the thompson gun to properly getting rid of all of them. The Second Encounter made them a joke because the chainsaw was introduced and you can just sit in a corner and have them jump right into it (plus there's far less hordes anyways).

[Rudolph]

Oh? And you talk no splash damage from it?

 

Anyway, @whybmonotacrab is right: I made it to the Tomb of Ramses and it looks completely different, thank to the blue-grey lighting! Why Croteam would change it in the HD version is beyond me...

Edited January 27, 2022 by Rudolph

[Rudolph]

Huh, it seems that Serious Sam: The Random Encounter is currently 80% off on Steam right now. Since I am currently on a Serious Sam binge, I might as well check that one out! I see it is from Vlambeer, so I expect it to be at the very least decent.

 

EDIT: Dang! The game is cool, especially the art style, but it gets hard really fast!

Edited January 27, 2022 by Rudolph

[act]

Well, after playing through the first bit of Serious Sam: The First Encounter, I can say... it's really good! I'm genuinely enjoying myself playing the game.

[Rudolph]

I must say, having watched a video compilation of Serious Sam 4's cutscenes, I do feel like giving it a shot: they are technically only one step above Hunt Down The Freeman's best cutscenes and Quinn's face is particularly bad, but the characters themselves are fun - it is really hard to dislike a lovable goofball like Serious Sam - and the writing, while cringeworthy at times, is usually charmingly silly and self-aware. Once the price drops significantly and most of the technical issues are fixed, I might buy it. I am in no rush anyway, as I have TFE and BFE to replay and TSE, SS2 and TRE to beat!

 

That being said, I still find it odd that Croteam would make a prequel to a prequel.

Edited January 27, 2022 by Rudolph

[Antroid]

6 hours ago, Rudolph said:

That being said, I still find it odd that Croteam would make a prequel to a prequel.

Someone on the steam forums made an amusing speculation about Croteam, in that they use the Earth settings as an excuse to vacation around the world. I believe they use a lot of photo references for the assets, so they have travelled to Egypt, France and Italy. Someone said the few places they keep mentioning in SS4 as sites of prominent battles are future places they want to take a trip to IRL :D

[Rudolph]

That does not explain why the games are prequels. Croteam could easily come up with some justification to have Sam fight Mental on Earth.

 

And speaking of Earth locations, I am surprised that they have yet to officially either port or remake The Next Encounter, as it features locations never visited in other Serious Sam titles.

[Antroid]

3 hours ago, Rudolph said:

That does not explain why the games are prequels. Croteam could easily come up with some justification to have Sam fight Mental on Earth.

Well, in both FE and SE Sam is trying his best to leave Earth so he can travel to Sirius and fight Mental. And SE already had him fail the flying saucer trip from FE because the developers of the game, flying on wooden crates through space, crashed into him. And at the end of SE he leaves on a rocket. I think prequels are a little less outrageous than trapping Sam on Earth yet again, with some other contrived excuse. Also, he'd be in the past still, though a bit less so since in SE he skipped forward a fair bit from ancient egypt. Seems like a no-brainer of a choice, all things considered.

 

Honestly, before 3 and 4 explored it, I and some of the people I knew in the SS mapping community were pretty interested in exploring Sam's "present day" adventures before he travels back in time, so all these prequels were right up my alley. Actually the stuff some of us did back in the day was pretty close to modern SS games in terms of mixing of the stupid and genuine vibes. At this point though I would definitely prefer them to tackle alien planets again, like SS2 but, uh, good. They already had a bunch of environments like that in the VR exclusive game, too. And they have a whole bunch of places set up through enemy lore alone.